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Cub XT1 50" Shuts Down when PTO is Engaged

#1

skippymud

skippymud

Hello All

Model: XT1
M/N: 13WQA1CQ009
DOM: 03/2015
S/N: 1C125H20445
Engine: Kohler 7000 Series 24hp

Cub XT1 50" Shuts Down when PTO is Engaged. It doesn't sputter or anything; the engine just shuts off quick
With Deck removed (no load), the PTO engages just fine. This tractor has just 50 hours on it
Anyone have any good words?

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#2

B

Bertrrr

Is this a mechanical PTO or Electric ? If electric I'm thinking you have a short to ground in the PTO circuit


#3

skippymud

skippymud

Hi Bertrrr, it's an electric PTO. Will check that out


#4

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Could have an issue with the mow in reverse safety system. If the mower thinks it is in reverse, and the reverse mow system isn't working correctly or not engaged could be causing the engine to shutdown.


#5

E

evh

Running on one cylinder and the load of the PTO kills the engine? That might explain why the PTO works with no deck installed.


#6

skippymud

skippymud

Thanks evh. I have checked and both are firing. My next step is to inspect this mow in reverse linkage behind the left rear wheel


#7

G

GearHead36

So the PTO works with the deck removed.... Have you tried the blades and pulleys on the deck to see if they're all free to rotate?


#8

skippymud

skippymud

GearHead36 said:
So the PTO works with the deck removed.... Have you tried the blades and pulleys on the deck to see if they're all free to rotate?
Click to expand...
Hiya GearHead. Yes I have. All three rotate without interruption and the belt is in great condition. The mower has only ~50 hours which is pretty low all together and this is a 2015 model. The thing is in like new condition


#9

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Put it all back together.
Start it up and engage PTO at full throttle. Does it kill engine?
If it does remove the deck belt from the PTO pulley.
Start engine and engage PTO. Does engine stay running and PTO pulley spin?
If yes then you have a deck problem as long as there is no issue with engine power.


#10

M

mechanic mark

test with a multimeter tool or test light each of the above switches.


#11

skippymud

skippymud

Hammermechanicman said:
Put it all back together.
Start it up and engage PTO at full throttle. Does it kill engine?
If it does remove the deck belt from the PTO pulley.
Start engine and engage PTO. Does engine stay running and PTO pulley spin?
If yes then you have a deck problem as long as there is no issue with engine power.
Click to expand...
Hi Hammer
Deck installed, started engine, engaged PTO, engine dies
PTO engages fine with belt removed
Strange though, with PTO engaged and spinning and no belt, I am able to travel in reverse w/o using the override
The spindles spin freely
I confirmed the belt configuration / routing to be correct
No issue with engine power. This Kohler 7000 Series 24hp runs on both cylinders

But question please: Is there a secret to getting the deck belt around the PTO easily on this 2015 Cub XT 50"? The spring on the idler pulley is SO tight that it seems impossible to install on my own. The only way I was able to test the PTO again was to not include the center blade pulley in the belt routing, which gives me the necessary slack for install


#12

skippymud

skippymud

mechanic mark said:
test with a multimeter tool or test light each of the above switches.
Click to expand...
Hi MM
Good idea. Will check these points tomorrow
Ken


#13

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Normally you can just twist the belt onto the the PTO pulley. If it is too tight to to get on the pulley it sounds like something is wrong with the deck. I don't think you have a switch problem.


#14

skippymud

skippymud

Hammermechanicman said:
Normally you can just twist the belt onto the the PTO pulley. If it is too tight to to get on the pulley it sounds like something is wrong with the deck. I don't think you have a switch problem.
Click to expand...
Hey Hammer

I hear ya. There is something wrong with the deck which I noticed only today during further inspection. 3/4's of the spacer washer that secures the idler pulley is broken off at the head and causes the ASSY to ride high and probably unstable - Mr Idler wobbles like a(n) SOB. I will replace that washer. But why do you think this belt is so impossible to install onto the PTO? Maybe wrong belt, which would perhaps explain the broken hardened steel washer thingy

Pending the arrival of the new washer/insert, my plan will be to follow the words of ILENGINE and check the reverse safety ASSY behind the right rear wheel. Just been too hot here in southern New York State recently to do so. Oh, this tractor rides in reverse with the PTO engaged (deck on, no belt attached). Is that even supposed to happen?

Thanks All!
Ken


#15

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

skippymud said:
Hello All

Model: XT1
M/N: 13WQA1CQ009
DOM: 03/2015
S/N: 1C125H20445
Engine: Kohler 7000 Series 24hp

Cub XT1 50" Shuts Down when PTO is Engaged. It doesn't sputter or anything; the engine just shuts off quick
With Deck removed (no load), the PTO engages just fine. This tractor has just 50 hours on it
Anyone have any good word
Click to expand...

skippymud said:
Hey Hammer

I hear ya. There is something wrong with the deck which I noticed only today during further inspection. 3/4's of the spacer washer that secures the idler pulley is broken off at the head and causes the ASSY to ride high and probably unstable - Mr Idler wobbles like a(n) SOB. I will replace that washer. But why do you think this belt is so impossible to install onto the PTO? Maybe wrong belt, which would perhaps explain the broken hardened steel washer thingy

Pending the arrival of the new washer/insert, my plan will be to follow the words of ILENGINE and check the reverse safety ASSY behind the right rear wheel. Just been too hot here in southern New York State recently to do so. Oh, this tractor rides in reverse with the PTO engaged (deck on, no belt attached). Is that even supposed to happen?

Thanks All!
Ken
Click to expand...
You need to remove the tensioner spring on the deck. This spring tensions the tensioner pulley, which tightens the PTO belt.


#16

B

bertsmobile1

Two circuits that can cause the engine to shut down when the blades are engaged
1) seat switch + PTO switch
2) reverse switch + PTO switch
To check the latter, engage the blades while driving forward slowly engine at full speed
Engine does not cut out = Reverse switch
Engine does cut out = seat switch

Verify seat switch ( as written in your owners manual )
Start mower engage parking brake then stand up
Engine stops = bad seat switch or wiring to it .


#17

skippymud

skippymud

Hey berts. Thanks. I will check this seat switch and parking brake ordeal tomorrow

ILENGINE, I have yet to check out the reverse safety ASSY but will do. I value your theory and thought process

Mr Seat Switch is a 4-pin configuration which is new to me. Lots of safety switches on these newer models. I run a Jacobsen model 1000 born in 1978 with a Kohler K241 - A beast at 900lbs dry. Has very little safety things. Reverse mow all ya want :) I don't have kids by the way

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#18

skippymud

skippymud

bertsmobile1 said:
Two circuits that can cause the engine to shut down when the blades are engaged
1) seat switch + PTO switch
2) reverse switch + PTO switch
To check the latter, engage the blades while driving forward slowly engine at full speed
Engine does not cut out = Reverse switch
Engine does cut out = seat switch

Verify seat switch ( as written in your owners manual )
Start mower engage parking brake then stand up
Engine stops = bad seat switch or wiring to it .
Click to expand...
Hi Bert
Parking Brake ON. Stood up and engine continues to run fine so all good there
With deck repaired (new shoulder spacer on the Idler Pulley) and fully installed, engage PTO, engine now sputters till it dies. Used to be it would cut power immediately or so it seemed. I played with the PTO switch back/forth and I was able to mow a few feet but then the engine starts to sputter and then dies. I noticed a slight fluctuation in engine RPM while the PTO was engaged and mowing for those few feet


#19

skippymud

skippymud

Hey All

New problem apparently, and possibly related to the original issue of engine dying after PTO is engaged

Starting engine on Choke, reduce to highest RPM w/o choke, PTO not engaged, not moving in forward or reverse - Just sitting on it in neutral. Engine runs for a few seconds then begins to die as though it is starving for fuel. Only 57 hours on this thing with a 2015 MFR date. Fuel tank is more than half full and smells wonderful. Any magic ideas before I begin disassembling the fuel delivery system for inspection? See VID I uploaded below



#20

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Just a though. Look at the right valve cover as if you were sitting on the seat. There is a hose coming out of the top of the valve cover that connects to the fuel pump. Make sure it is connected. Could have other fuel restrictions but have seen the hose split and/or get disconnected while doing other work, and then get forgotten to reconnect.


#21

skippymud

skippymud

ILENGINE said:
Just a though. Look at the right valve cover as if you were sitting on the seat. There is a hose coming out of the top of the valve cover that connects to the fuel pump. Make sure it is connected. Could have other fuel restrictions but have seen the hose split and/or get disconnected while doing other work, and then get forgotten to reconnect.
Click to expand...
Hi ILEngine

I always appreciate your feedback - Thanks. What is that, the impulse line which drives the diaphragm inside the pump? It's on my left as sitting on this now-POS. I checked it and it has not been messed with and appears to be in very good shape - Still pliable and not rotted or hard. The fuel filter remains full and appears to be feeding the pump just fine. I also tried running the engine on full choke to see if there is an air leak - No change. If I wait just 30 seconds after it dies, I can start it back no problem, then of course it dies as shown in this new VID. I also loosened the gas cap to see if the air hole was clogged - Nope


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#22

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

I was talking about the pulse line. Looks OK in the picture. Fuel flow restriction some place. May need to remove the line between the fuel pump and the carb, and crank the engine to check fuel flow from the pump. Depending on where the fuel tank is located you maybe able to disconnect the line on the fuel filter side and hold the end down into a container and check flow from the tank to make sure you have a fuel stream. So either a restriction between the tank and the pump. Pump not working correctly, or something blocking flow into the carb float valve.


#23

skippymud

skippymud

Thanks ILEngine. What timing for this to happen just when the PTO does not engage properly. Oh well

"Fuel flow restriction some place" for sure, and I will find it. Will check the output flow from the pump to the carb first to ensure consistency


#24

K

kjonxx

plugged gas cap
skippymud said:
Hi ILEngine

I always appreciate your feedback - Thanks. What is that, the impulse line which drives the diaphragm inside the pump? It's on my left as sitting on this now-POS. I checked it and it has not been messed with and appears to be in very good shape - Still pliable and not rotted or hard. The fuel filter remains full and appears to be feeding the pump just fine. I also tried running the engine on full choke to see if there is an air leak - No change. If I wait just 30 seconds after it dies, I can start it back no problem, then of course it dies as shown in this new VID. I also loosened the gas cap to see if the air hole was clogged - Nope

Click to expand...
Water in the carb? Sounded like it was starving for gas


#25

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

kjonxx said:
plugged gas cap

Water in the carb? Sounded like it was starving for gas
Click to expand...
It was. I have seen water in carbs appear to do some strange things.


#26

D

DinosaurMike

Safety switches could have been defeated by the previous owner. I "fixed" the seat switch on my Husqvarna YT42LS tractor so the engine will keep running when I get off the seat. Was a real pain having the engine stop when I went to close the garage door. The engine continues to run with the PTO engaged when I get off the seat. The ignition switch has a built in "mow in reverse" position. TMI after the first sentence.


#27

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

DinosaurMike said:
Safety switches could have been defeated by the previous owner. I "fixed" the seat switch on my Husqvarna YT42LS tractor so the engine will keep running when I get off the seat. Was a real pain having the engine stop when I went to close the garage door. The engine continues to run with the PTO engaged when I get off the seat. The ignition switch has a built in "mow in reverse" position. TMI after the first sentence.
Click to expand...
You do realize that you could of turned the deck off, and set the parking brake and then got off and closed the garage door and the engine would of keep running.


#28

D

DinosaurMike

Safety switches could have been defeated by the previous owner. I "fixed" the seat switch on my Husqvarna YT42LS tractor so the engine will keep running when I get off the seat. Was a real pain having the engine stop when I went to close the garage door. The engine continues to run with the PTO engaged when I get off the seat. The ignition switch has a built in "mow in reverse" position.
ILENGINE said:
You do realize that you could of turned the deck off, and set the parking brake and then got off and closed the garage door and the engine would of keep running.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I did not know that. I read the manual when I bought the tractor, but obviously forgot what I read.
I do not engage the PTO until I am ready to use the attachment; it was just something I found out when I got off the tractor to grab a branch with the mower engaged. Normally I shut off the PTO in that situation.


#29

skippymud

skippymud

ILENGINE said:
It was. I have seen water in carbs appear to do some strange things.
Click to expand...
kjonxx said:
plugged gas cap

Water in the carb? Sounded like it was starving for gas
Click to expand...
Surely starving for fuel. kjonxx, I had checked the fuel cap by loosening and that isn't it. The same BS continues

But I've been somewhat lazy in the last week - Argg! I still must check the fuel output from the pump to ensure consistency. As ILEngine states, there is blockage somewhere, and I believe that to be so

Ken


#30

skippymud

skippymud

Turned out to be a fuel delivery problem. I rebuilt the Carb and flushed the fuel system and she works. Thanks all! - Ken


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