Cub Cadet ZT1 engine surging problem (FR691V motor)

Cajun power

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  • / Cub Cadet ZT1 engine surging problem (FR691V motor)
The diodes that you were alerted to are not a service replacement part
They are embedded into the coils along with the Hall Effect trigger chip.
So do as advised, remove both kill wires from the coils and get back to us.
In nearly every case surging is coused by an air : fuel ratio that is too lean for the engine to maintain a constant speed.
Engine slows down so governor relaxes, throttle opens up engine gets a big gulp of air which sucks harder on the main jet causing what should be a richer fuel mix into the engine ( this is why it accelerates quickly ) .
In the case of surging, the sudden glup brings the air : fuel ratio back to normal so the engine picks up speed.When it stops accelerating , the velocity of the air passing the main jet slows down so it no longer is sucking extra fuel
With no extra fuel the engine is then back into a too lean situation so it slows down which causes the governor to relax which allows the throttle plate to open up wide & thus the cycle continues at infinatum.

SO either not enough fuel is being added by the carburettor or air is entering the engine after the carburettor .

Now back to you.
As you have replaced so many items there is the real possability that one or more of them will be defective or damaged during the replacement.
Very common for defective carburettors to be sold on the sites invented for thieves to sell stolen goods or crooks for selling scrap metal pretending to be good parts .

Two simple tests
1) remove the air box and either apply the choke if you can or partially cover the air intake with some card ( not your hand )
work the governor linkage to open & close the throttle
If the engine stops surging with a partial blocking of the intake then it is definately a lack of fuel situation .
2) Remove the blower housing , start the engine and saturate the region from the throttle plate shaft ( the bit the throttle butterfly sits in ) to the engine with WD 40 from a trigger pack, ( not a spray can ) .
While doing this work the governor rod back & forth to make the engine accelerate hard & back off .
IF you get white smoke from the exhaust then you have an air leak .

Do this and get back with the results
thanks, and I appreciate your feedback. I apologize for not updating this thread more quickly. Please read my reply to BOATMOTER.

blown head gaskets..both...small leaks. Also see what I replaced them with. solid copper head gaskets with copper spray dressing (permatex). No surging...compression is awesome and leak down is negligible. Probably failed because of bad factory install/design problem with the simple stamped aluminum metal gaskets COMBINED with a cousin who does not listen to good advice and thinks it's just fine to spray cold water on a hot air cooled engine "to clean it off".

I appreciate everyone who gave advice. I read all of your comments and followed many of the suggestions.

lesson for me: start with a compression and leak down test for engine performance problems. before any part is replaced or doing any other troubleshooting. the silver lining is I have plenty of spare parts. and some deeper knowledge of this kawasaki motor.

THANK YOU!
 

boatmoter

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  • / Cub Cadet ZT1 engine surging problem (FR691V motor)
The governor is not the problem. it's perfectly adjusted (I tried both ways too, just to make sure I had it in full sweep). The carb is not defective. I put the old carb in and it still surges. It's a V twin....I mentioned this weird condition in the first post: when pulling EITHER of the two coils, the engine smooths out. No surging. It does not matter at all which of the coils I pull, the surging stops. BUT when I have them both connected and both are firing, the surging happens. This should have been my first significant clue when I first began troubleshooting. But, I was not paying attention and I ended up replacing just about everything. (carb, fuel pump, fuel filter, all fuel and vacuum lines, new intake gaskets, new exhaust gaskets...new carb gaskets...new breather hose...new coils, new plugs)...I threw parts at it..and I did so knowing that I could end up not solving the surging problem, but also knowing these are spare parts I can keep for maintenance down the road. I cleaned the tank, new fuel...gapped the valve clearance...cleaned up the flywheel and coil mounts of any rust and debris. I did all the things you possibly could except that one thing I should have done in the very beginning.

then I got serious...I did a compression check and leak down.

both head gaskets were blown...both were leaking compression down into the case. The symptom of one coil pulled and no surge is because the gasket problem was very tiny...just enough to cause problems, but only when BOTH cylinders were firing. When only one was firing, the surging goes away because the head gasket leak is not back pressured by the other cylinder...because there is no combustion happening, so there is no backpressure that creates excessive torque load on the shaft!. But when both are firing, and are in different phase...(one in ignition, one in exhaust for example)...causes enough back pressure in the case from both cylinders happening at different cycles then surging happens. The surging happens because the case pressure accumulates enough blow by pressure from the cylinders directly into the case to cause the engine to "feel" it us under a heavier torque load and the governor responds ...with the up and down surge...blown head gaskets...not much...but enough to cause excessive pressure into the case when both are operating...but not enough to case excessive pressure when only one is firing.


If I had started this troubleshoot with a little more attention to the "weird" symptom, and then done a compression and leak down test, I would have figured this out much faster.

sidenote: I did NOT USE the OEM Kawasaki Head Gaskets for the replacement/repair. For one, finding the IMPROVED two part composite gasket (metal PLUS a fiber insert), was too difficult to try and verify with all the garbage that is sold out there in the ether. Even the official Kawasaki website states two different part numbers, one for the original and one for the superceded "improve" composite gasket. But when I called they said I would receive which ever they had in stockl! WTF! And it was very pricey...no way I am going to pay 30 bucks for a simple stamped aluminum gasket. So, What I ended up doing is buying COPPER GASKETS...and used a copper gasket spray dressing. There is no fiber insert on this gasket but it is exactly the correct thickness dimensionally to the OEM gasket, so there is no problem with "squish". They were cheaper by a mile from the IMPROVED Kawasaki composite two element gaskets...18 bucks a piece. Copper should also provide better heat transfer, so there is another benefit by this upgrade.

this is exactly what I bought. And so far, compression and leak down check after replacement has been terrific. No leaks..and compression is 155 at #1 and 153 at #2. (versus below 60 psi on the old blown gaskets)...no surging. Problem solved. It has small leaks in both head gaskets!

as far as why the head gasket failed, both at the same time, is probably due bad metal gasket design PLUS a time or two when my cousin decided it was a good idea to spray down the engine when it was hot.

case closed. head gaskets.

lesson: when dealing with engine performance...do a compression and leak down check. Can save alot of time chasing gremlins
good deal. i had a problem with the head gasket on my Chevy HHR, it ran a little rough but ran greqat above an idle,I scanned it,all components were working as designed, I did 3 Hydro carbon test to it, passed everyone. it did have a over heating problem after 20 min of driving, turned out to have a blown head gasket between #1 & 2 cylinder, no oil or water mixing. good deal you got it working.
 

7394

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  • / Cub Cadet ZT1 engine surging problem (FR691V motor)
Chevy HHR ?
 

Tiger Small Engine

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  • / Cub Cadet ZT1 engine surging problem (FR691V motor)
Chevy HHR ?
Few customers even know what a compression and leak down test are, much less know what they mean and indicate. Since you know these tests, it is odd you would fire the parts cannon before performing these tests, based on what was happening with engine. Thanks for telling us what the problem ultimately was.
 

boatmoter

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  • / Cub Cadet ZT1 engine surging problem (FR691V motor)
Few customers even know what a compression and leak down test are, much less know what they mean and indicate. Since you know these tests, it is odd you would fire the parts cannon before performing these tests, based on what was happening with engine. Thanks for telling us what the problem ultimately was.
yep I skipped that step,the previous owner told me he did a head job on it, I looked at all the copper spray on it and thought. ok. but he lied to me,he said he had the head resurfaced,machine shop I deal with said it never been planed before. warped aluminum head is reason for head gasket blowing again, glad you got yours going
 

7394

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  • / Cub Cadet ZT1 engine surging problem (FR691V motor)
Tiger Small Engine- Why quote me on this ? Mine is a Panel van.
 
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