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Cub Cadet XT2 LX46 PTO will not engage

#1

C

cturboaddict

Hey all, looking for some help here. My 3 year old (one month past warranty) XT2@ Lx46 fab deck just stopped on me.
Last week I mowed, just fine. Today, went out to pull it out of the garage and mow the lawn. When I went to engage the blades..... NOTHING.
I should add, that this is technically a 2016 model. And I cannot find a wiring diagram anywhere.

Pulled switch off, functioning properly from what I see. 4 prongs, normally closed (2 pairs). Engage Switch no continuity on the two pairs.
Pulled off PTO clutch, activated with jumpers from 12 v and magnet engaged.
Checked power at two prong connector with PTO clutch removed. I'm getting .5V with the switch engaged.

So, I know it's not the switch, and I know it's not the PTO clutch.
Is there a fuse or relay somewhere? .5V at the PTO clutch connector seems a bit low?

Any help is appreciated!


#2

C

cturboaddict

Anyone? I cannot find a wiring diagram anywhere online.
Is there a fuse or Relay somewhere?


#3

G

gsim

cturboaddict said:
Hey all, looking for some help here. My 3 year old (one month past warranty) XT2@ Lx46 fab deck just stopped on me.
Last week I mowed, just fine. Today, went out to pull it out of the garage and mow the lawn. When I went to engage the blades..... NOTHING.
I should add, that this is technically a 2016 model. And I cannot find a wiring diagram anywhere.

Pulled switch off, functioning properly from what I see. 4 prongs, normally closed (2 pairs). Engage Switch no continuity on the two pairs.
Pulled off PTO clutch, activated with jumpers from 12 v and magnet engaged.
Checked power at two prong connector with PTO clutch removed. I'm getting .5V with the switch engaged.

So, I know it's not the switch, and I know it's not the PTO clutch.
Is there a fuse or relay somewhere? .5V at the PTO clutch connector seems a bit low?

Any help is appreciated!
Click to expand...
Been there with my GH 930D mower. 1st time was 'E' relay, which the PTO switch engages to turn on the clutch. 2nd time was PTO switch itself. Locate relay rack (likely several relays on newer mowers. Mine is '09 and has 5 relays under operator RH fender) Turn ig switch 'ON' then operate PTO swi and listen for click. Or have someone put fingertip on each relay as you repeat the test. They will be able to feel the click. Another thing to check is that the deadman switch beneath the seat is working. Loose push on connectors can give you a fit. Guessing here that PTO clutch relay has dirty contacts, delivering low voltage to clutch. All PTO clutches are 12 v as far as I know. You definitely have a PTO relay because the PTO switches are not capable of delivering the usual 30 amps thru their housing and contacts. Relay dose that job, and most are 30 amp rated far as I know. Good luck.


#4

C

cturboaddict

gsim said:
Been there with my GH 930D mower. 1st time was 'E' relay, which the PTO switch engages to turn on the clutch. 2nd time was PTO switch itself. Locate relay rack (likely several relays on newer mowers. Mine is '09 and has 5 relays under operator RH fender) Turn ig switch 'ON' then operate PTO swi and listen for click. Or have someone put fingertip on each relay as you repeat the test. They will be able to feel the click. Another thing to check is that the deadman switch beneath the seat is working. Loose push on connectors can give you a fit. Guessing here that PTO clutch relay has dirty contacts, delivering low voltage to clutch. All PTO clutches are 12 v as far as I know. You definitely have a PTO relay because the PTO switches are not capable of delivering the usual 30 amps thru their housing and contacts. Relay dose that job, and most are 30 amp rated far as I know. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Going to go look now. I guess that's the hardest part is finding the silly relay. I can't find a wiring schematic anywhere.
I'll look under the fenders too.

Not really sure how to turn the switch to "ON" without the engine running. It's an electric push button start.


#5

C

cturboaddict

Thanks for the tip though, I'm sure it's electrical related based on what I've done thus far.


#6

C

cturboaddict

so, looking everywhere I can only find 1 relay. I can actuate it on the bench and it clicks. I don't hear it click when its hooked up though.


#7

G

gsim

cturboaddict said:
so, looking everywhere I can only find 1 relay. I can actuate it on the bench and it clicks. I don't hear it click when its hooked up though.
Click to expand...
Maybe a fuse. Or may be PTO switch itself. Voltmeter will give you direction. PTO switch usually relays 12 V DC to PTO relay, which sends it to clutch. However, PTO switch might just send a ground to the PTO relay to operate it. Manufacturer can do it either way. If done this way, then 12 VDC would be present on relay all of the time. Still could be fuse tho. I've even had case where I had to remove and replace fuse due to oxidation in terminals.


#8

C

cturboaddict

I pulled the switch and noted that the two prongs show continuity when the switch is in the off position, and then open when switch is activated.
I can only find ONE fuse, and it's located on the top of the battery. It's good.


#9

G

gsim

cturboaddict said:
I pulled the switch and noted that the two prongs show continuity when the switch is in the off position, and then open when switch is activated.
I can only find ONE fuse, and it's located on the top of the battery. It's good.
Click to expand...
I'm stumped.


#10

C

cturboaddict

gsim said:
I'm stumped.
Click to expand...
Lol, me too.

I just jumped 12v (from supplemental battery) into the back of the harness at the clutch. Clutch/blades engaged.

I jumped 12v into the back of the switch, clutch/blades engaged.

But I do t have 12v at the switch on any of the 4 prongs.

I really wish I had a wiring diagram.


#11

C

cturboaddict

Sooooo..... It's fixed. How, I have no friggin clue.

Pulled apart the parking brake switch, tested... Was good.
Pulled the reverse switch, tested.... Was good.

Stumped, I said screw it... I'll call the dealer and drop it off next week.
As I'm pulling out of the garage, I had the deck belt disconnected. For the heck of it, I pulled the pto clutch and I could hear it engaging.
Hooked the belt up, and everything worked fine.

Lawn mowed.


#12

Q

qmark

Have you checked for a seat activation switch? Are you getting 12 volts to the PTO switch?


#13

Q

qmark

Good. I hope the issue doesn't reappear.


#14

G

gsim

Maybe an ign switch isn't a real expensive item on your mower. Good idea to have spare elec parts on hand for easy troubleshooting during cutting season. I recently bought one for my GH 900D. Was a Kubota part, so was expensive at around $35 or so. But my mower is 11 yrs old, nearly 1600 hours on it. So seemed like good idea. I also have a spare PTO switch, and one each of the two types relays in my mower. I also have one steering lever engagement switch and a spare brake switch as well, plus a full compliment of fuses. All told, some $70 or $80 in spare elec parts. I curt 5 acres and just don't need the drama of waiting on a part to arrive, not to mention how quick it is to switch out a part to see if it clears trouble. Just a suggestion.


#15

G

gsim

Deadman under-seat switch good suggestion by Qmark. You can short those two leads out on most mowers and bypass that feature at least to perform a test. PTO won't engage if yuou are out of seat. All modern mowers same in that regard. Fed law I suspect. Maybe even OSHA reg.


#16

B

bertsmobile1

Modern electrical plugs are self cleaning
The act of unplugging & repluggng them can clean off minor corrosion thus the system works again.


#17

C

CubCadet_Chris

I had the exact same issue with my Cub Cadet this past week. PTO wouldn't engage, took it all apart and tested everything, found nothing wrong, put it all back together and it mysteriously worked. My guess is just some corrosion build up that we knocked off.

I was getting like 0.5V at the PTO connector. I pulled the PTO off measured the resistance across the pins. Should be between 2-4ohms and mine was reading 2.5ohms. I have a power supply I can adjust the voltage. As soon as I hit 10V I could hear the PTO engage. I moved on to the switch, it wasn't melted so I tested continuity across the pins in each row and all was good in the on or off positions. So then I moved on to the relay. My relay was next to the 20amp fuse for the starter. I had continuity across the denergized pins. Then I put 12V from my power supply across the power pins and I had continuity across the energized pins. My seat switch has been unplugged by the previous owner but I checked continuity in the wires to the relay and switch and all was good. I leave the seat switch unplugged. It still works fine. I found a wire diagram here and checked for shorts at all the wires to PTO switch, relay, and seat switch. All was good. I was stumped so I hooked it all up again and it just worked. I put everything back together and had no issues mowing. I have an older 1515 tractor which I think is a 2001.


#18

G

gsim

CubCadet_Chris said:
I had the exact same issue with my Cub Cadet this past week. PTO wouldn't engage, took it all apart and tested everything, found nothing wrong, put it all back together and it mysteriously worked. My guess is just some corrosion build up that we knocked off.

I was getting like 0.5V at the PTO connector. I pulled the PTO off measured the resistance across the pins. Should be between 2-4ohms and mine was reading 2.5ohms. I have a power supply I can adjust the voltage. As soon as I hit 10V I could hear the PTO engage. I moved on to the switch, it wasn't melted so I tested continuity across the pins in each row and all was good in the on or off positions. So then I moved on to the relay. My relay was next to the 20amp fuse for the starter. I had continuity across the denergized pins. Then I put 12V from my power supply across the power pins and I had continuity across the energized pins. My seat switch has been unplugged by the previous owner but I checked continuity in the wires to the relay and switch and all was good. I leave the seat switch unplugged. It still works fine. I found a wire diagram here and checked for shorts at all the wires to PTO switch, relay, and seat switch. All was good. I was stumped so I hooked it all up again and it just worked. I put everything back together and had no issues mowing. I have an older 1515 tractor which I think is a 2001.
Click to expand...
Good report, thorough. Dollars to donuts electrolysis over time caused some oxidation generated corrosion. I once cleared a chronic fuel pump failure on my Ford F-150 truck which was definitely corrosion down inside male-female wiring harness connector plug, and in fact right next to THAT down where pigtail plugs into fuel pump body, SAME THING. So two of same troubles literally less than 8" apart.
Also had mower issue which was engine would die after startup soon as I let go of starter switch key. Was corroded electrodes in fuse and fuse holder, 30 amp, which was inline wiring harness fuse, that went to fuel solenoid (Kubota diesel engine on my mower)
Corrosion in wiring harness plugs and fuse holders definitely can give grief, as can loose wiring harness plugs. DITTO for ground connections which can cause intermittent failure, chronic on again off again troubles.
Lesson here is that corrosion in DC circuits is NOT limited to battery terminals alone! Every connection on any mower or vehicle has both a positive and negative terminal. And that positive half can always become corroded over time.


#19

C

cturboaddict

So, this problem returned. And again, I'm stumped. (Called Cub Cadet and have a diagram, which is slightly inaccurate anyway. But I'm attaching them)

Mowed fine a few weeks ago. Parked in garage. Pulled out two weeks ago, pulled PTO switch..... NOTHING
Left PTO switch pulled out (PTO not operating) and the mower blew the 20amp fuse (under the seat) and motor died.
Replaced 20amp fuse and pulled PTO switch (PTO did not operate), after about 20 seconds fuse blew again.
Replaced 20amp fuse and pulled PTO switch (PTO did not operate).

Checked seat switch- tested GOOD.
Checked Reverse switch- Tested good- Replaced anyway.
Checked Brake Pedal switch- Tested good- replaced anyway.
No power on red wire to PTO switch????
Checked PTO Switch- Tested good- replaced anyway.
Checked Resistance at PTO directly- 3.2- Good
Apply 12 Volts and Negative direct to PTO- Activates- PTO Good
Wire harness from harness connector to PTO has a diode in it. Smelled burnt at diode- Ordered new wire harness. (Waiting for it to arrive)
Checked Relay (attached to side of engine, only relay on mower)- Operated when applying 12v- Replaced anyway.

As soon as I get the wire harness in, I'll be stumped from there.

My Cub Cadet is an 2017 Model
Model# 13AQA4CN010 LX46 Fab Deck w/ Kohler 7000 series mower. Electric choke/start/pto.

Attachments


  • XT2-LX46 725_06718.(2016-2018).pdf
    613.1 KB · Views: 24

  • XT2-LX46 725_06724. (2016-2018).pdf
    813.8 KB · Views: 22


#20

C

cturboaddict

Overall diagram, but it shows 6 connections at PTO switch. Mine only has 4 as shown in the other wiring diagrams posted.

Attachments


  • XT2-LX46 Pages from 725_06173_reduced.pdf
    389.7 KB · Views: 18


#21

C

cturboaddict

Well, its fixed again. I wanted to update what actually repaired it.
I tested everything and all tested well. Studying the above diagrams, and after getting someone competent on the tech line at Cub Cadet, I realized I wasn't getting 12v out to PTO OUT at the Push Button Ignition Module. I ordered a new module, and wala it was fixed.


#22

P

Petton Pete

I have a similar problem with my 46" fab dec XT2, looking at what is written here I also think my issue lies with a fault with the overly clever ignition module... I have all the exact same symptoms (in terms of diagnostics), what I think may have potentially fried it though is the voltage regulator was spiking all over the shop (replaced now), this may have overloaded the internal board on the ignition module... What annoys me though is that a sensible bit of design would inhibit chain-reaction component failure, it is a disgrace that when component "A" fails, component "B" which is way more expensive to replace is also likely to fail... CC should be ashamed of themselves. The machine has only done 145hrs... totally unacceptable!


#23

B

bertsmobile1

Do yourself a favour and toss it then fit a standard key ignition as was previously done
The problem is the excess of lawyers and the fake religosity of government instutions
Good honest upstanding church going people make dumb mistakes and cause injuries so lawyers sue the manufacturer rather than admitting the operator made a dumb mistake.
It is OK for criminal or godless people to do bad things because they are bad but if good people do it then it has to be stopped .
Society can not admit that most are dumb & stupid because to put it in the words of one of the greatest philosophers the USA ever produced,, Frank Zappa
"The good book says Gad made us in his own image
so if we are all dumb then God is dumb and perhaps a little ugly on the side "
Naturally that recording got banned in the USA ( Think "You are what you is " can now be bought in the USA ) but the rest of the world got to hear it .

The up shot of this is complex lockout ignitions that would do the job if the buying public would pay a reasonable price .
But they will not so residential mowers are all made to the cheapest possible price thus interlock modules that fail and keyless ignitions that prevent every one from starting the mower, including the owner .

When I get asked for buying advice now days it is go for an entry level commercial mower or pick the colour residential your partner likes because all of them are junk .


#24

P

Petton Pete

bertsmobile1 said:
Do yourself a favour and toss it then fit a standard key ignition as was previously done
The problem is the excess of lawyers and the fake religosity of government instutions
Good honest upstanding church going people make dumb mistakes and cause injuries so lawyers sue the manufacturer rather than admitting the operator made a dumb mistake.
It is OK for criminal or godless people to do bad things because they are bad but if good people do it then it has to be stopped .
Society can not admit that most are dumb & stupid because to put it in the words of one of the greatest philosophers the USA ever produced,, Frank Zappa
"The good book says Gad made us in his own image
so if we are all dumb then God is dumb and perhaps a little ugly on the side "
Naturally that recording got banned in the USA ( Think "You are what you is " can now be bought in the USA ) but the rest of the world got to hear it .

The up shot of this is complex lockout ignitions that would do the job if the buying public would pay a reasonable price .
But they will not so residential mowers are all made to the cheapest possible price thus interlock modules that fail and keyless ignitions that prevent every one from starting the mower, including the owner .

When I get asked for buying advice now days it is go for an entry level commercial mower or pick the colour residential your partner likes because all of them are junk .
Click to expand...
To be honest, we paid £5k for our mower, and I think this is quite a high price. I have looked at the option of using the key ignition module, although I am not sure about which wires will be going where as it would mean rewiring the loom to retrofit the unit... If someone were to manufacture a wiring adapter that enabled a person to retrofit the older key ignition, they would make a killing I am sure...


#25

P

Petton Pete

Petton Pete said:
To be honest, we paid £5k for our mower, and I think this is quite a high price. I have looked at the option of using the key ignition module, although I am not sure about which wires will be going where as it would mean rewiring the loom to retrofit the unit... If someone were to manufacture a wiring adapter that enabled a person to retrofit the older key ignition, they would make a killing I am sure...
Click to expand...
That said if the replacement module fails, I will be manufacturing something similar myself... On that note, does anyone on here have a wiring diagram for the older key module they could share? With this, I think it will be possible to do some A/B comparison and rig the loom accordingly...


#26

P

Petton Pete

Well I feel like a bit of a potato... the schematics here are for the turn-key operated ignition module... I have the even worse push button module on my machine, the exact model number is XT2 QS117, though symptoms described by the PO are identical as are the measures taken to fix, so far... terrible electronic design on these, it is a real shame as other than this, the machine is great, solid chassis, decent engine solid deck... but the electrics suck big time...


#27

StarTech

StarTech

For ones that are trying to look-up this the actual model number is the one that starts with the "13"

Cub Cadet XT2 QS117 13AFA1CN603 (2017)​


It would some rewiring and a different keyswitch to revert to an older style safety setup. But it can be done with enough knowledge and patience.

BTW the wiring schematic for this one is even worst than other MTD diagrams as Cub Cadet (MTD) is hiding the actual internal wiring diagram from us service techs.


#28

P

Petton Pete

StarTech said:
For ones that are trying to look-up this the actual model number is the one that starts with the "13"

Cub Cadet XT2 QS117 13AFA1CN603 (2017)​


It would some rewiring and a different keyswitch to revert to an older style safety setup. But it can be done with enough knowledge and patience.

BTW the wiring schematic for this one is even worst than other MTD diagrams as Cub Cadet (MTD) is hiding the actual internal wiring diagram from us service techs.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the polite correction re model number, much appreciated, in terms of CC keeping schematics from service techs.... Well that is true lizard style conduct right there... Shocking bunch of no good reptiles, poor form Cub Cadet... Poor form!


#29

E

emoetom

cturboaddict said:
Well, its fixed again. I wanted to update what actually repaired it.
I tested everything and all tested well. Studying the above diagrams, and after getting someone competent on the tech line at Cub Cadet, I realized I wasn't getting 12v out to PTO OUT at the Push Button Ignition Module. I ordered a new module, and wala it was fixed.
Click to expand...
thats what i just did now my mower dies when i engage pto like i got off mower and the safety switch killed power.

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