Export thread

I parked my small mid-1970’s 3hp International Cub Cadet tiller two years ago running fine. Yesterday I started it up to till a small area and found the chain drive transmission locked. I disassembled the transmissions and found the input pulley shaft seized within its bearing. I’ve applied some liquid wrench penetrating oil to the external side of the bearing but the elastomer seal appears to be preventing much from entering the bearing.

Do I continue to apply oil over the next week or ??? Advice appreciated.

do you have any needles and syringes? Maybe lead hammer time?

I hit the end of the pulley shaft with a steel hammer thinking I could release it but it’s stuck. I didn’t hit it too hard instead hoping the penetrating oil might work over days. I don’t have needles/syringes. The external seal is so narrow that I don’t believe I can pierce it (1-2mm thick radially.)

Is there a needle bearing in there?

Odd fact is that I parked the tiller in dry storage under my house working fine. It did not seize while running.

If you brought me that cover I would clamp the shaft in the vise and soak that bushing with a rust breaker like PB Blaster multiple times. The oil in your picture will not breakdown rust. After sitting a day or two, while still clamped tight in the vise, I would grab the housing and slowly work it back and forth. Should break it free.

Rivets has a good plan.
What i would do is clean up the entire piece, and soak the bearing/shaft area in a 5 gallon bucket with either Evapo Rust or Diesel.

actually Liquid Wrench converts red rust to black rust to make the molecules smaller. I had exhaust manifold studs that were so tight on a sports car that they would not loosen double nutted without risking snapping them. A good machinist friend advised me to specifically use that product overnight. I did and the studs screwed out with my fingers, literally. PB Blaster is good too. One guy I know likes to put parts like that in a bucket of water after he has cleaned the oil off, add some baking soda or washing soda, and hook a 12V battery charger to the part and a anode in the water. Amazing what it can do.

Thanks folks. I’m going to try a hybrid plan… first a good cleaning then I’ll soak the drive end in a bucket of diesel. Then I’ll try the vice method with a heavy dose of liquid wrench applied under the sprocket. I’ll update in a week.

Another question... how is this input shaft fixed to the bearing tube welded to the sheet metal housing? Should it just slide out or is there a spring clip somewhere? Is there a needle bearing or does the shaft just ride on a bushing?

If there is a bearing in there it’s probably a ball bearing cheap press fit into the housing. If you provide us with the units model and serial numbers we would have a better idea.

More likely a needle bearing or bushing but without the equipment numbers it is only a guess.

best guess is you will be the guinea pig in this experiment. Most of those type tillers the last 25 - 30 years or so that I have seen have welded case halves, that are disposable, and not easily disassembled. A Tractor Forum might have some folks who have dealt with bolted together transmissions like yours. I think if someone here was commonly versed in that transmission they would already be posting answers. My GUESS is that the shaft simply slides thru the inner race and will be a ball bearing based on the design and seal type.

I am also guessing that this is a free-standing tiller and not an accessory to a IH 147 or something like that.

I found this video using google and guessing on a model number since it wasn't provided

I’ve these trannys many times and have never seen needle bearings. Bushing 90% and ball 10%.

Rivets said:

I’ve these trannys many times and have never seen needle bearings. Bushing 90% and ball 10%.

Click to expand...

This is reason I need the model number.

Here is an example of one I just repaired recently that the input shaft uses two needle bearings.

Those bearings are not on the input shaft.

Go-Rebels said:

Thanks folks. I’m going to try a hybrid plan… first a good cleaning then I’ll soak the drive end in a bucket of diesel. Then I’ll try the vice method with a heavy dose of liquid wrench applied under the sprocket. I’ll update in a week.

Click to expand...

If you soak in diesel remember to degrease before you apply the penetrant of choice because most will not work on oily or greasy surfaces .

Rivets said:

Those bearings are not on the input shaft.

Click to expand...

Still wanting to argue...

Item 7 is the input shaft with bearings 4 and 8 on the IPL I posted so not all input shaft have bushings or ball bearings. There are some that have needle bearings.

532145101



As I said I need to the exact model the OP is working so I can look it up to see what is actually involved instead of guessing at things.

Look at the shaft he’s trying to remove, to me it sure looks different than the one you posted. That being said, seeing your this forums resident expert and love to point out other members mistakes, I guess I must be wrong again. You can start ignoring me again, because I’m not going away, and I’ve argued with guys smarter than you.

Rivets said:

Look at the shaft he’s trying to remove, to me it sure looks different than the one you posted. That being said, seeing your this forums resident expert and love to point out other members mistakes, I guess I must be wrong again. You can start ignoring me again, because I’m not going away, and I’ve argued with guys smarter than you.

Click to expand...

And it can be different that is why the model is needed. Once that is posted we all can be on the same page.

Don't take it the wrong way but there is no point at guessing at things when we all have access the IPLs to look for ourselves. The problem is that you said that 100% use either bushings or ball bearings and just pointed out that needle bearings are used too.

It like trying the tell me all Cub Cadet spindles are greased via the spindle shaft when I definitely know definitely know different as I just repaired one that grease via the spindle hub and not the shaft.

BTW Rivets your wish is granted.

On the shaft he is trying to remove, yes 100% are either bushings or ball. Don’t go away mad because you lost this one, just know you can’t win them all. I know you’ll see this as you can’t really stay hidden.

Sorry Fellas, I know better to list the model #.

It is model: 030212 - D282B

I can hardly believe a ball bearing would seize up if I parked the tiller after running fine w/o damage.

Thanks for the model number.
There is two different sections for this till with input. Going the image post you are working on the Chain Case Assembly 04924


748-0154



741-0220
No image found that looks right. May be NLA. May have to use two 748-0154 and cut to the correct length.


The input shaft here uses two bushings. And yes when bushing are use the shaft and bushings can seize from rust. I currently working on a Gravely ZTR that all three idlers arms are seized from rust even the part of the system uses plastic bushings. It took a hydraulic press to get them apart. One so seized that both the plastic and steel bushing came out as one piece.

Thx StarTech,

Should this sprocket/shaft assembly just slide out from the inside of the case if the bearing is free? I don't see any room for a spring clip to hold the shaft in the bearing.

I'll clean and soak the assembly over the weekend and try to brake it loose using the vice technique.

From what I can see on the IPL it should slide out once rust and burrs are removed. No keepers shown.

A little heat on the outside of the case, with a propane torch should also help. Will probably have to do a little repainting when done.

I expect it is a ball bearing and it didn't survive the Flood or pressure washing.
Look for a donor machine or get it weighed. Sorry about your luck.

No flood.

Never pressure washed the tiller.

looks like it got really wet is what he was saying. That kind of rust doesn't form in a dry environment.

Fixed. Needed to tap out the shaft with copious amounts of oil applied.

I hand sanded the shaft with 100, then 220 fine sandpaper.

I'm looking to sell this tiller as I have no more need for it. I'm not keen on front tine tillers but this is only 18" across and isn't too hard to handle. Engine runs perfectly, uses no oil and starts on first pull. What's this old girl worth... $50?

sgkent said:

looks like it got really wet is what he was saying. That kind of rust doesn't form in a dry environment.

Click to expand...

The truth is the MTD tillers are not a sealed unit and will leak like a sieve, and allow water intrusion through every opening it can find. I have pulled apart more than my fair share of the rear tine tillers to find them full of water and rust. Seized shift forks are an everyday event with those The shaft where the shift collar moves will look like it has been soaked in acid.

This tiller has sat in my crawl space under my house for decades, used every year or so. It's humid, but not dripping and no mold. The tiller has never been wet as in SC it seems to never rain. I'm figuring the humidity under my house eventually took a toll...