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Cub Cadet spindle parts maintenance/replacement

#1

G

GearHead36

Recently, I decided to do some deck maintenance on my Cub Cadet Pro Z 100. Two of the spindles (p/n 918-07255) seemed pretty solid. No play in any direction. Before greasing, though, they made a bit of noise when turning the blades. After greasing, they got quiet. The 3rd spindle... had vertical and lateral play. I figure that it's toast, so I ordered a new one. I figure that the housing is worn. Even if it's not, it's not a bad idea to have a spare. But a spindle is just over $150. Yikes! So I want to make sure the other two last.

I've been greasing them every year, but I wasn't getting enough grease in there. This time, I put in grease until it started coming out, and it came out through the bearings. I'm sure that the bearings have grease now. At least, on the good spindles. I didn't see a need to waste grease on the bad one.

The bearings on the "good" spindles got quiet once they got filled with grease, but not before that. Should I replace them? If so, how do I determine the p/n for the bearings I need?

The bearings are not sealed. The spindles have seals that must come out to be able to remove the bearings. See photo.Deck spindle.jpeg

There's one on the other end of the spindle, too. Can they be removed without damage? I tried prying on them, but couldn't get one out. I was afraid to pry any harder. Are the seals available separately? If so... p/n?

BTW, the mower has about 400 hrs on it. I suspect the spindles do too, but I bought it used, so I can't be sure.


#2

S

slomo

Some people take a small dope needle and inject grease into the black rubber seal. That fills the bearing with grease. Then a small finger dab of sealant or rubber cement to cover the hole. Right where the RED arrow is at in the above pic.

Some spindles not all, have a hollow tube in the middle. Some folks drill and tap for a grease zerk fitting there. Pushes grease up and down towards the bearings. The inner rubber seal needs a small void or totally removed to allow grease into the bearings.

Some grease guns take a needle as well.



#3

G

GearHead36

The spindles have zerks. On the two good spindles, I filled them with grease, and them pumped a couple of more times, which resulted in grease squirting through the bearings. I think I have a handle now on how to get grease into the bearings.

I managed to knock the bearings and seals out of the bad spindle. To my surprise, the bearings are needle bearings. I was sure that they were ball bearings. The numbers I could find on the bearing: 741-04129 HMS 0715 CHINA. Chinese bearings... great! :( When I search on 741-04129, I get hits for Cub Cadet spindle rebuild kits. Is this not a standard bearing?
spindle bearing.jpeg


#4

S

slomo

The whole machine is made in China. Cubs are not what they used to be.


#5

G

GearHead36

slomo said:
The whole machine is made in China. Cubs are not what they used to be.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but all the fasteners not on the engine are SAE. Everything on the Kohler engine is metric. I measured the ID of the bearing. I got 0.750". That's 19.05mm. Is that a common size? It may be built in China, but all of the nuts & bolts (outside of the engine) are SAE, so I expected the bearing to be SAE too.


#6

G

GearHead36

Is it possible that the 741-04129 bearing is not right for this spindle? When I search on 741-04129, I get hits for spindle rebuild kits, but my spindle is not one of the ones mentioned. And this spindle had excessive vertical and lateral play. I don't want to take the bearings out of one of the good spindles, but I'm thinking I may need to

BTW, thanks, slomo for the replies.


#7

StarTech

StarTech

To be 100% sure need the model number from serial number tag but the following is for middle of pack model.

Bearing should be LM11949 cones with LM11910 cups. BTW 741-04129 cones are superseded to 941-04129 which supersedes to 941-04298 cones with cups being 941-04299. These common tapered bearings sets. Even you local auto parts store has them.

The seals are 921-3018A (Rotary 12535).


#8

A

Auto Doc's

Here is an Ebay source:

www.ebay.com

(1 Kit) Spindle Rebuild Kit fits Cub Cadet 918-07254 PRO Z 100 160-L, 160-S | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for (1 Kit) Spindle Rebuild Kit fits Cub Cadet 918-07254 PRO Z 100 160-L, 160-S at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com


#9

G

GearHead36

Model # is 53RWEFJA050, DOM - 02/2016.

Does that change anything?

I speculated, "Is it possible that the 741-04129 bearing is not right for this spindle?" I checked another spindle, and it has the same bearing.

Do the cones & cups need to be replaced as sets?

Thanks, StarTech


#10

G

GearHead36

"Do the cones & cups need to be replaced as sets?"

Never mind. I did a bit of research, and found that they get replaced together. I kinda thought that. My dad was a mechanic in the 70's, and did a bunch of bearing replacements. I seem to recall the cups (aka races) getting replaced too.

Any tips on getting the cups out? I tried on one, and my punch didn't want to "grab on" enough to get it out.


#11

StarTech

StarTech

Same parts...And yes both cone and cups needs replace any time one or the other is replaced due to wear. Normal when buying after market they come as a set. I have seen cups Now I have the cups so worn it was nearly impossible to drive them out.

Currently I pay $3.90 per set from my bearing supplier. Of course shipping is added as they are shipped. I keep enough set on hand that I can use snail mail at a lower cost.


#12

G

GearHead36

StarTech said:
Currently I pay $3.90 per set from my bearing supplier. Of course shipping is added as they are shipped. I keep enough set on hand that I can use snail mail at a lower cost.
Click to expand...
My bearing supplier, Amazon, isn't quite that cheap. One bearing is about $9. One cup... about the same. I DID find 4 sets of Timkin bearings & cups for $35. Not quite as good as your prices, but better than $18 per set. Or $150 per spindle.


#13

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

GearHead36 said:
My bearing supplier, Amazon, isn't quite that cheap. One bearing is about $9. One cup... about the same. I DID find 4 sets of Timkin bearings & cups for $35. Not quite as good as your prices, but better than $18 per set. Or $150 per spindle.
Click to expand...
You should grease the mower more often than once a year. Any play, or noise in bearings inside the spindle assembly will make the mower deck louder when engaged. Eventually, they will wear out. Easier to simply replace the entire spindle unless you have the time to pound or press in and out all the bearings.


#14

StarTech

StarTech

These are commonly use trailer and automotive bearings and should last for years as long they are kept greased.

And some of us do than a little more energy and time then others. Over the last 15 yrs I had only spindle that I could not the cups out of but they were worn down pass the recess hole lip on a set of Scag spindles. It does modifying a chisel to get at the lip of the cup at times. The last set I changed was nearly impossible to get out due wear. Just had figure out how to grind the chisel to do this. For me since I knew it comes out, It was me or it that gave up and I was very insist it that it came out.

Plus some customers don't have as deep of pockets money wise.


#15

G

GearHead36

Tiger Small Engine said:
You should grease the mower more often than once a year.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why, but last year, I only put about 30 hrs on it. I think the manual calls for service every 25 hrs. So I didn't think it needed it. However, the air pre-filter, which is also supposed to serviced every 25 hrs, was caked with dirt, so maybe it was a hard 30 hrs. This year, I have some help. My wife has taken over the mowing with this mower. We are on pace for many more hours, so I'll likely start greasing it more than once a year.

I don't think the problem was not greasing it often enough. I don't think the grease was making it to the bearings. I've figured out how to fix that. The bearings lasted 400 hrs without proper maintenance. I suspect that a proper servicing every 100 hrs would be an improvement over what it's had in the past. Last year when I serviced it, all the deck rollers were almost rusted tight. I suspect those had never been greased.

I'm glad we're using it more. When I found out that I only put 30 hrs on it last year, I questioned whether I really needed a commercial mower.


#16

G

GearHead36

StarTech said:
These are commonly use trailer and automotive bearings and should last for years as long they are kept greased.

And some of us do than a little more energy and time then others. Over the last 15 yrs I had only spindle that I could not the cups out of but they were worn down pass the recess hole lip on a set of Scag spindles. It does modifying a chisel to get at the lip of the cup at times. The last set I changed was nearly impossible to get out due wear. Just had figure out how to grind the chisel to do this. For me since I knew it comes out, It was me or it that gave up and I was very insist it that it came out.

Plus some customers don't have as deep of pockets money wise.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

My garage now is one I inherited from my dad, with all his tools (that haven't walked off). It's a professional garage. He was a professional mechanic. I searched for punches the other day for removing bearings, and found a tool that looks perfect for the job. It's like a chisel with a kink in it, making it easier to get to the side where you need to hit on the bearing or race. After thinking about it a bit, I realized that I don't need to worry about not damaging the internals of the spindle. What would get damaged in removing the races is not a bearing surface, or a bearing mating surface. I have a spare spindle now, I can experiment until I figure out what works.


#17

StarTech

StarTech

Now this is best way to learn what is needed to done. You're not pushed to get it done and give time to learn how to remove these worn cups. Hands on is some best learning you can do. It will stick with you especially if it is difficult to get done but most cups comes fairly easy it is just the badly worn ones that are a pain to get out.


#18

G

GearHead36

StarTech said:
Now this is best way to learn what is needed to done. You're not pushed to get it done and give time to learn how to remove these worn cups. Hands on is some best learning you can do. It will stick with you especially if it is difficult to get done but most cups comes fairly easy it is just the badly worn ones that are a pain to get out.
Click to expand...
I agree. I learn best by doing it myself.

The new spindle was just delivered. It came with a pulley, which I didn't expect. (y)

Great, given that it wasn't scheduled for delivery until Monday. Not sure it will make any difference, though. It's been raining for 3 days. Won't be able to mow today or probably tomorrow either.

Does anyone have torque specs for the spindle bolts and blade nuts?


#19

S

SeniorCitizen

Maybe grinding a radius in the side of the chisel that is approximately the same radius as the cone would help with removal .


#20

StarTech

StarTech

SeniorCitizen said:
Maybe grinding a radius in the side of the chisel that is approximately the same radius as the cone would help with removal .
Click to expand...
BIngo...And with a sharp edge to get into the parting seam.

And this why buy cheap chisels from HFT. They are low enough in cost to replace when needed.


#21

S

Silver Wolf

GearHead36 said:
Recently, I decided to do some deck maintenance on my Cub Cadet Pro Z 100. Two of the spindles (p/n 918-07255) seemed pretty solid. No play in any direction. Before greasing, though, they made a bit of noise when turning the blades. After greasing, they got quiet. The 3rd spindle... had vertical and lateral play. I figure that it's toast, so I ordered a new one. I figure that the housing is worn. Even if it's not, it's not a bad idea to have a spare. But a spindle is just over $150. Yikes! So I want to make sure the other two last.

I've been greasing them every year, but I wasn't getting enough grease in there. This time, I put in grease until it started coming out, and it came out through the bearings. I'm sure that the bearings have grease now. At least, on the good spindles. I didn't see a need to waste grease on the bad one.

The bearings on the "good" spindles got quiet once they got filled with grease, but not before that. Should I replace them? If so, how do I determine the p/n for the bearings I need?

The bearings are not sealed. The spindles have seals that must come out to be able to remove the bearings. See photo.View attachment 70937

There's one on the other end of the spindle, too. Can they be removed without damage? I tried prying on them, but couldn't get one out. I was afraid to pry any harder. Are the seals available separately? If so... p/n?

BTW, the mower has about 400 hrs on it. I suspect the spindles do too, but I bought it used, so I can't be sure.
Click to expand...
My original spindles did not have the zerk fittings, but my e-bay China replacement ones did. If pumping grease into spindles and greese starts to come out stop. Pressure can build in the spindle and blow the seal out. The main cause of spindle failure is the blades hiting branches, limbs and rocks. Also, do not clean under the deck with what CC name "smart jet" which will force water past the spindle seal and into the bearing. Throw that smart jet away..

I have the Cub Cadet China built 20hp Koler courage engine. You have to have courage to own a courage engine. I have bought 8 Chinese carbs, 2 starters, endless mower driven belts, several drive belts and front tires, several spindles and it uses oil like you wont believe. Had a friend weld my mowers deck where welds broke and metal fatigued. I had to become a mower mechanic to own it. I want a zero turn mower, but Cub Cadels are the cheapest and they have soured me.

I had a John Deere mower, the 120 series, less than $3500 and it is a piece of crap with a green paint job. Replaced spindles contantly, electrical problems. The tuff torque transmission was great and the twin cylinder B&S 25 hp engine was great, but used a lot of gas. My deck rusted out and I had to trash and bought my Cub Cadet. The best riding mower I have had was a Lowes brand which was build by Noma, Noma build the mowers for Graingers also. They got bought out. It had a a twin cylinder Vanguard B&S engine and had the old hydrostatic transmission which bolted on to the rear differential. Replaced the deck which was under $100, which I took to work and unbolted all the stuff off old deck and put on new one with new fastners from work. 10 years old and someone stoled it beside my house in the daytime. I don't know how they did it. I have a long driveway and the road is very steep. Anyway, my insurance paid out and I bought the John Deere.

Keeping a spindle as a spare is a good ideal. I had bought 2, 5 years ago and only used one when I had bought them. Spare blades, bought 2 sets, new and used carbs, 3 mower belts, drive belts, air, oil and fuel filter, spark plug, 30 weight oil. I use a fuel shut off on the fuel line because the needle and seat fails and there are not kits that you can buy. If I don"t shut off the gas, my crankcase will fill with gas and the gas of 3.5 gal will run out the air filter, but that is the carb that runs the best. There are no adjustments or jets. Thank EPA and China for that.


#22

G

Gord Baker

StarTech said:
To be 100% sure need the model number from serial number tag but the following is for middle of pack model.

Bearing should be LM11949 cones with LM11910 cups. BTW 741-04129 cones are superseded to 941-04129 which supersedes to 941-04298 cones with cups being 941-04299. These common tapered bearings sets. Even you local auto parts store has them.

The seals are 921-3018A (Rotary 12535).
Click to expand...
The Cup and Cone LM numbers are Timken tapered Roller Bearing Numbers. I worked in the St. Thomas Ontario plant in the '60's grinding the OD of Cones. 3,600 per shift, one at a time!


#23

G

Gord Baker

The Cup and Cone LM numbers are Timken tapered Roller Bearing Numbers. I worked in the St. Thomas Ontario plant in the '60's grinding the OD of Cones. 3,600 per shift, one at a time!


#24

justin@justintime

justin@justintime

Those are tapered bearings for starters, but think you figured that out I just skim read. Thats a nice set up. almost pro grade. Yes the seals come out and should be rather generic Seals can be bought by size many times, size is listed right with OEM part numbers. Depending on how the mandrel is set up, the blade, or pulley or both nut torque matters. I would look up the torque spec. Looking at the pics Id say one blade took a good wack or overtorqued. They are the same type of bearings used on all your trailer wheels and the old timer rule of thumb on those is get pretty darn tight then back it of a quarter turn. I wouldn't recommend that approach to aluminum housing spindle bearings. Torque matters on tapered bearings and so does grease is the take away on all that.


#25

S

SeniorCitizen

With a tapered roller bearing it's obvious there is something wrong when the temperature of a hub is higher than others . Also the r.p.m. of the blade and a automotive wheel is different by a large margin . To keep a blade roller bearing operable that's a real good idea to grease
often .


#26

Ozcub

Ozcub

As the book says Grease is cheap parts are not


#27

G

GearHead36

justin@justintime said:
Thats a nice set up. almost pro grade.
Click to expand...
CC claims that it's a commercial unit. That year, they offered a Pro Z 100, 500, and 900. I consider mine to be "entry-level commercial" or maybe prosumer. Still, almost overkill for residential use.

justin@justintime said:
Looking at the pics Id say one blade took a good wack or overtorqued.
Click to expand...
Don't go by that photo. I mangled the bearing, and maybe the spindle trying to get it apart. So I just bought a new one. I understand how it's made now. After getting informed by this discussion, I also ordered bearings and seals, so I can repair the others if needed.

justin@justintime said:
They are the same type of bearings used on all your trailer wheels and the old timer rule of thumb on those is get pretty darn tight then back it of a quarter turn. I wouldn't recommend that approach to aluminum housing spindle bearings. Torque matters on tapered bearings and so does grease is the take away on all that.
Click to expand...
The bearing spacing is set by spacers. I checked them after tightening the blade nuts, and it didn't seem to matter how tight I got it. On trailers, and some older vehicles, tapered bearings get preloaded, which is set by a nut, which usually, as you mentioned, get torqued, then backed off. I have a 2000 Ford Ranger that has front wheel bearings like this. That's not how this spindle is designed.


#28

G

GearHead36

SeniorCitizen said:
With a tapered roller bearing it's obvious there is something wrong when the temperature of a hub is higher than others . Also the r.p.m. of the blade and a automotive wheel is different by a large margin . To keep a blade roller bearing operable that's a real good idea to grease
often .
Click to expand...
I never mentioned a temperature difference anywhere. Where are you getting this? I plan on keeping it well greased.


#29

G

Gord Baker

Silver Wolf said:
My original spindles did not have the zerk fittings, but my e-bay China replacement ones did. If pumping grease into spindles and greese starts to come out stop. Pressure can build in the spindle and blow the seal out. The main cause of spindle failure is the blades hiting branches, limbs and rocks. Also, do not clean under the deck with what CC name "smart jet" which will force water past the spindle seal and into the bearing. Throw that smart jet away..

I have the Cub Cadet China built 20hp Koler courage engine. You have to have courage to own a courage engine. I have bought 8 Chinese carbs, 2 starters, endless mower driven belts, several drive belts and front tires, several spindles and it uses oil like you wont believe. Had a friend weld my mowers deck where welds broke and metal fatigued. I had to become a mower mechanic to own it. I want a zero turn mower, but Cub Cadels are the cheapest and they have soured me.

I had a John Deere mower, the 120 series, less than $3500 and it is a piece of crap with a green paint job. Replaced spindles contantly, electrical problems. The tuff torque transmission was great and the twin cylinder B&S 25 hp engine was great, but used a lot of gas. My deck rusted out and I had to trash and bought my Cub Cadet. The best riding mower I have had was a Lowes brand which was build by Noma, Noma build the mowers for Graingers also. They got bought out. It had a a twin cylinder Vanguard B&S engine and had the old hydrostatic transmission which bolted on to the rear differential. Replaced the deck which was under $100, which I took to work and unbolted all the stuff off old deck and put on new one with new fastners from work. 10 years old and someone stoled it beside my house in the daytime. I don't know how they did it. I have a long driveway and the road is very steep. Anyway, my insurance paid out and I bought the John Deere.

Keeping a spindle as a spare is a good ideal. I had bought 2, 5 years ago and only used one when I had bought them. Spare blades, bought 2 sets, new and used carbs, 3 mower belts, drive belts, air, oil and fuel filter, spark plug, 30 weight oil. I use a fuel shut off on the fuel line because the needle and seat fails and there are not kits that you can buy. If I don"t shut off the gas, my crankcase will fill with gas and the gas of 3.5 gal will run out the air filter, but that is the carb that runs the best. There are no adjustments or jets. Thank EPA and China for that.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you should hire a Lawn Care Service.


#30

S

SeniorCitizen

I've felt of a few bearings similar to what you are dealing with on trailers , front wheels on a 48 Ford and have retired from the natural gas compression industry , so i'm not the kid that hasn't been around the block . I just thought my experience might help in the future but I see it's just irritating you .


#31

S

SeniorCitizen

GearHead36 said:
"Do the cones & cups need to be replaced as sets?"

Never mind. I did a bit of research, and found that they get replaced together. I kinda thought that. My dad was a mechanic in the 70's, and did a bunch of bearing replacements. I seem to recall the cups (aka races) getting replaced too.

Any tips on getting the cups out? I tried on one, and my punch didn't want to "grab on" enough to get it out.
Click to expand...
Modify a Cold chisel to approximately the race radius and drive it out .


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