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i have an old Cub Cadet HDS 2135 with a Kohler Command OHV 13.0 HP engine. I have to charge the battery sometimes to start it, although the battery is only a year old. It would try to start when I turned the key, but it never did. I can only turn the key a few times before the battery needs time to charge.

Now it makes no noise whatsoever when I turn the key, even after the battery has charged sufficiently.

What should I check first?

Sounds like your starter is toast.
Take it off and get it tested for current draw.
Apart from that the magic word is CLEAN ELECTRICAL JOINTS.

Isn`t there a way I can use a jumper myself to determine if it`s the starter or the ignition switch?

I`m not sure where to place the jumper wire.

If you want to jump directly to the starter, the terminal you want is under that big, red, right-angle boot.

I'd take off the RH side panel first.

The starter cable is too close (maybe touching) the RH side panel. You can fix that.

Thanks! I replaced the spark plug and cleaned all the connections between the battery and solenoid. No change. Will try the jumper.

It turns out that the starter cost $250. It`s an old mower. If it's the starter, then I`m probably better off replacing the mower.

Not so fast...

You've got an old Kohler horizontal shaft engine for which you can probably still get parts. I have a 2140 and I have had no trouble getting parts for it EXCEPT for the carburetor on its Cummins/Onan engine.

That engine was probably made before the downhill slide in Kohler and Briggs and Stratton started.

Think twice before you give up on it and go with a new one, but if you do, get one with a Kawasaki engine.

Just my 2 cents.

edit: In general, horizontal shaft engines are more durable than vertical shaft engines. Very few new mowers use horizontal shaft engines these days. That's to make them CHEAPER, not better.

I jumped from the positive terminal on the battery to the starter (right angle boot). Nothing at all happened.

The battery seems fine. It`s new as of last year, and I measured 12.6V from it.

Sounds like the starter itself is the problem.

Sometimes you can get your starter rebuilt for less than what a new or rebuilt unit costs and your starter might be a higher quality than what you can buy.

Look for a starter/alternator repair shop close to you.

I replaced the start assembly, and nothing changed. It makes no sound whatsoever when I crank it. I ran a wire from the positive pole of the battery to the starter, and still nothing.

I am at a loss on how to proceed. Thanks in advance

So you replaced the starter assembly, with no change?

If you put the voltmeter on the positive terminal of the battery and against the housing of the starter, what reading do you get?

Approx. 13.6V

What voltage do you get going positive terminal to negative terminal on the battery?

I get the same voltage across both the cattery's positive terminal to negative terminal and positive terminal to starter housing: 12.9V now.

OK. I was wondering why the voltage to the starter housing was more than the voltage across the two battery terminals. The fact that you can get battery voltage by touching the housing means the starter has a good ground.

You said you replaced the starter assembly--is that correct?

From the picture, it looks like the starter has a built-in solenoid. Is that correct? Does that big red wire run directly to the battery?

Yes, I replaced the starter assembly, which has a built-in solenoid. The big red wire runs from the positive terminal of the battery. See attached picture.

http://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/P...urlRequestType=Base&langId=-1&catalogId=14101

Then jumping to that big red wire won't do anything. It's no different than putting jumper cables on the battery. There are other small terminals on the solenoid, one of which is looking for a 12 volt signal to start the ball rolling.

I don't know how to tell you which one; but a wire from the 'start' position of the ignition switch is connected to it. Or should be, if you have the wires connected correctly.

That`s the blue wire that is connected to the solenoid (shown in the picture). It goes through a couple of junctions (connectors) on its way to the ignition switch.

What voltage do you have at that terminal with the key off? Should be zero.

What voltage with the key turned to 'start?' Should be 12v. If it is, I think the problem is in your solenoid. If not, problem is in the ignition switch, one of the 'bypass' switches, or the wire itself.

12V between where and where?

I replaced the solenoid. It comes with the starter assembly.

Between the blue wire and ground.

Don't assume anything is good because it's new.

No voltage there. Could it be a safety switch and/or an ignition switch?

Yes.

Is there a way to diagnose which switch is bad?

Yes. One at a time. Sorry, but I don't know any other way.

The power to that blue wire goes like this.
Battery to fuse
Fuse to B ( battery ) terminal on starter switch
B to S ( starter ) terminal on ignition switch
S to PTO switch
Pto switch to brake switch
Brake switch to starter.

It is a daisy chain so all of the switches must be closed for it to work.
On Cubs it is a PIA cause the switches are hard to get to

I have a good service manual for it. I followed it`s instructions to verify that the following are functioning correctly: solenoid/starter, fuses, relay, interlock switch (for brake pedal), and PTO switch. The seat switch has continuity in one position and not in the other, so I think it`s OK.

I`m not sure how to check the ignition switch. Do you know?

This one has six terminals: G, S, B, L, M, and R (alternator).

If it`s none of those, I guess it must be wiring

I checked continuity on the ignition switch and thought it was bad (didn`t have any instructions for checking a six-prong switch). So, I replaced it. Unfortunately, that did not fix it.

I guess it`s a wiring issue. There`s no obvious problems visible with the wires. Not sure I want to wrestle with the mower any further.
:thumbdown:

Isn't there a reverse movement safety switch? I didn't see it mentioned as testing good.

If nothing else, you can run a bypass wire directly from the ignition switch to the starter terminal that the blue wire is on. Of course, you would have none of the safety switches but who would care?

jal540 said:

I have a good service manual for it. I followed it`s instructions to verify that the following are functioning correctly: solenoid/starter, fuses, relay, interlock switch (for brake pedal), and PTO switch. The seat switch has continuity in one position and not in the other, so I think it`s OK.

I`m not sure how to check the ignition switch. Do you know?

This one has six terminals: G, S, B, L, M, and R (alternator).

If it`s none of those, I guess it must be wiring

Click to expand...

Ground
Start
Battery
Lights
Magneto
Alternator ( Rectifier )

This is getting silly.
If there is 12V on the blue wire going onto the starter then the starter should be energised & turn.
The safety switches interrupt that 12V supply.
The only other thing is a bad ground.

bertsmobile1 said:

This is getting silly.
If there is 12V on the blue wire going onto the starter then the starter should be energised & turn.
The safety switches interrupt that 12V supply.
The only other thing is a bad ground.

Click to expand...

I know, and the ground is good. Regarding the seat safety switch, I have continuity when it is not depressed and no continuity when it is depressed. My understanding is that some of them work that way.

cpurvis said:

Isn't there a reverse movement safety switch? I didn't see it mentioned as testing good.

If nothing else, you can run a bypass wire directly from the ignition switch to the starter terminal that the blue wire is on. Of course, you would have none of the safety switches but who would care?

Click to expand...

It`s a relay. I checked it per the service manual but failed to report that. I remember because you can hear the contacts close.

A relay? I don't understand why a relay would be used because the relay itself would need a switch to activate it.

I have a 2140 and it's a switch on the LH side of the tractor, activated by the rotation of the FWD-RVR pedal rod.

Maybe the 2135 is different.

cpurvis said:

A relay? I don't understand why a relay would be used because the relay itself would need a switch to activate it.

I have a 2140 and it's a switch on the LH side of the tractor, activated by the rotation of the FWD-RVR pedal rod.

Maybe the 2135 is different.

Click to expand...

You are correct. The 2140 and 2135 have the same electrical components. The manual shows a reverse switch, but the circuit diagram shows both a reverse switch and relay. (Confusingly, the Cub Cadet parts tree calls it a safety switch, and the relay part number is shown with no label.

I`ll have to look for it.

I think I know why it has a relay.

I disabled that feature on Day 1 of ownership because, IIRC, once the mower was turned off by going in reverse, it had to be restarted by pushing the dashboard switch to the "off" position and pulling it back out. A relay of some sort would be necessary to accomplish this.

Not only was that a colossal nuisance, it put a lot of unnecessary wear and tear on the mower clutch. That thing had to go.

Upon even FURTHER reflection, I think my idea about the reverse safety switch is a red herring. I think it only affects mower operation, not the start circuit. Duh.