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Cub cadet 2166 spark problems

#1

Tim7791

Tim7791

I recently got this 2166 for a deal estate sale has a ch16s now wires were chewed-chopped idk on the coil/ignition side of the harness Believe motor been swapped tractor has about 360 hours motor appear to have 200 range according to newer filter but issue is I tried to check spark knelt on the pedal not thinking about kill switch as I've killed the ones in my last 2 MTDs got couple sparks then nothing next day I sat on the seat no spark until I let off the (start) position then couple sparks as the motor turned last couple rotation key in the on position so I'm not sure what to think ignition problem? kill switch problem? Any ideas


#2

M

mechanic mark

www.cubcadetpartsnmore.com

Cub Cadet Service Manuals

Manuals and Diagrams for Cub Cadet Mowers and Tractors. Factory Direct from Cub Cadet. Buy Parts for Less.
www.cubcadetpartsnmore.com www.cubcadetpartsnmore.com
see if this service manual helps you out, look through electrical, section 7.


#3

Tim7791

Tim7791

mechanic mark said:
www.cubcadetpartsnmore.com

Cub Cadet Service Manuals

Manuals and Diagrams for Cub Cadet Mowers and Tractors. Factory Direct from Cub Cadet. Buy Parts for Less.
www.cubcadetpartsnmore.com www.cubcadetpartsnmore.com
see if this service manual helps you out, look through electrical, section 7.
Click to expand...
Thanks I'll check that out I have all the diagram pictures each system highlighted I just wish it was laid out better but I played with it again last night and it spark immediately then nothing but I noticed when I turned the key "off" I gave a spark tried and replicated that result 3or4times


#4

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Remove the spark plug and install a spark tester on the plug wire and crank engine. Does it have spark? If not remove kill wire from coil and repeat. Does it have spark cranking? If yes probably bad ignition switch or wiring. If has spark when cranking in first test reinstall plug and check for spark when cranking.


#5

Tim7791

Tim7791

Tim7791 said:
Thanks I'll check that out I have all the diagram pictures each system highlighted I just wish it was laid out better but I played with it again last night and it spark immediately then nothing but I noticed when I turned the key "off" I gave a spark tried and replicated that result 3or4times
Click to expand...


#6

Tim7791

Tim7791

Been a few days tried switching the ignition from my mtd which was a replacement had same plug but not good started blowing fuses I swapped back and hit the starter with jumpers and spark fired up for a minute had The air filter and stuff off full choke so I'm thinking the ignition switch is faulty when it's turning over stop's send spark signal cuz I had a spark at beginning at the end after I turned the keys back but nothing else in between IDK scratching my head


#7

S

slomo

Stick your finger in the spark plug boot. Crank the engine over. You should see pretty quick if it has spark. No need to buy any tools. If you feel a zap, you are golden.

Dull comedy aside, get a spark tester like Hammer said.

slomo


#8

Tim7791

Tim7791

slomo said:
Stick your finger in the spark plug boot. Crank the engine over. You should see pretty quick if it has spark. No need to buy any tools. If you feel a zap, you are golden.

Dull comedy aside, get a spark tester like Hammer said.

slomo
Click to expand...
What's a spark tester gonna tell me ?I I just had it running yesterday seems something interrupting I'm starting to think ignition switch cuz oil lights on turning on every time I turn key and I got it to maintain spark through motor turning also during further inspection I noticed the contact on the flywheel was really crusty from sitting so long I cleaned it up before I got everything going so might be that simple I was already late and happy to have heard it's run Strong for the minute it did I didn't have time to do anything else


ng


#9

StarTech

StarTech

According Kohler only CH16 was used on the Cub Cadets CH16-45509

This engine originally used a SAM module. IF the engine hasn't been converted to DSAI find the red on the SAM module and check 12 +- vdc when in both run and start positions. If not present in either position then you mower side electrical problem but if the voltage is there in both positions then the SAM module is bad and you will need to upgrade the system to DSAI using kit 12 707 01-S. Kit will include conversion installation instructions.


#10

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

If the CH16 has the DSAI (ASAM or DSAM) ignition there will be a black plastic box on the side of the engine. That box or the coil can be bad. The 12 070 01 s is the original DSAI coil and works with the "smart spark" module. To upgrade to the MDI (magneto discharge ignition) as far as i know kohler does not have a kit for the CH16 The ones i have done I had to get the 32 707 01 s kit for a twin cylinder engine. The plug wire is shorter than the coil wire for the CH16. If you reroute it it will work.
Both of the DSAI systems are notorious for failing with intermitent spark. Also, if smart spark module loses power intermittently from bad relay contacts the engine will die like you turned the key off but will usually start right back up.


#11

StarTech

StarTech

Hammer, Sorry but the 12 707 01-S does not use the SAM module as it is now an one piece system.

Kohler TT-5243 DSAI Conversion Kit

As the plug wire being shorter MDI 32 707 01-S, I would just change it out with a long one but that is just me.


#12

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Well i am wrong again. First time in the last half hour. Thanks for the info. Looks like the local Kohler shop needs to see that. They are the ones who had me use the kit for the twin and told me there was no kit for the single cylinder engines. Gonna print that off and show them. I hope it is better than the original system. Going back to my nap now.


#13

StarTech

StarTech

BTW I did post an incorrect PN which I have since corrected.

For Napping it is raining here so I think I take a nap too. SUrew don't want the two generators here. Boy I love it when I repair a unit and they don't get used for several years and just have to all that work all over again.

Yes the hi tension lead change out I have learn how to do it so it is now second nature for to replace leads especially those that mice have chewed on.


#14

Tim7791

Tim7791

Hammermechanicman said:
If the CH16 has the DSAI (ASAM or DSAM) ignition there will be a black plastic box on the side of the engine. That box or the coil can be bad. The 12 070 01 s is the original DSAI coil and works with the "smart spark" module. To upgrade to the MDI (magneto discharge ignition) as far as i know kohler does not have a kit for the CH16 The ones i have done I had to get the 32 707 01 s kit for a twin cylinder engine. The plug wire is shorter than the coil wire for the CH16. If you reroute it it will work.
Both of the DSAI systems are notorious for failing with intermitent spark. Also, if smart spark module loses power intermittently from bad relay contacts the engine will die like you turned the key off but will usually start right back up.
Click to expand...
Yes thank you I know about the Spark Advance Module (S.A.M.) and it's location I hadn't heard of anyway to home check/test it like mentioned above or what exactly to get for conversion if bad. paid 250$ for this nice looking machine with a lightly used Cub cadet plow told it had Sat run recently ( guys mechanic had couple jumper wires in the harness ) leaking at PTO seal I can fix that but hadn't anticipated running into these gremlins I'm getting on here trying to get better ideas trying not to throw money at the problem cuz I don't really have it for one but I would get my damn machine going just More costly and a bit more slowly than I could with a bit more knowledge from those More knowledgeable of what these machines are and do


#15

Tim7791

Tim7791

Up above I meant oil light not turning on every time the key gets turned forward a click which is another thing leading me towards ignition switch hard to be sure at this point didn't get to mess with it today but the amount of crusty surface rust and stuff I had to cut through on the flywheel I'm sure it wasn't relaying a good signal to the ignition system


#16

StarTech

StarTech

If it is at the ignition switch it can be a bad terminal in the connector housing. The F56 (GM, Delphi) style terminal has a spring type contact and the hinge point tends to breaks leading to loose contacts.


#17

Tim7791

Tim7791

StarTech said:
If it is at the ignition switch it can be a bad terminal in the connector housing. The F56 (GM, Delphi) style terminal has a spring type contact and the hinge point tends to breaks leading to loose contacts.
Click to expand...
My thoughts about the ignition switch was even jumping with other battery and cables at the solenoid with key on position was if I didn't make sure the oil light was on,on dash it wasn't firing when I clicked it around got the light on one times I might've had to pull and put the fuse back before I got its oil light to come back IDK if I had to or just that's what I did trying stuff cuz I was hurrying a little cuz I was behind and just wanted to do anything to try to get to start before I left lol


#18

Tim7791

Tim7791

Got behind never finished my Cubby too much going on this summer but as far as the ignition goes I was lookingat replacing the ignition key switch to a 6,7 or 8 tab toggle like I saw at AutoZone or a couple toggles to power it's electrics to The run position and then run a push button for the starter lead seems like a simple enough idea to make happen inexpensively (15$) for the Fancy toggle and already have the push button and for future ease of use if I really wanted to get Fancy like worried about theft could buy a key fob deal like New cars have where it'll only start when fobs in range for 10-15$? but about to get back to it just got New tester so I could try the sam test thing and whatever else you guys mentioned I'm tired other ideas aren't coming to me but wanta get it setup before winter so I can push my driveway clear thanks for the advice guys


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