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Craftsman DYS4500 will not start 2nd time
#1
S
Someone
S
Someone
Hello all. New to the forum with a repair question.
So, I recently received a donated riding mower from my father. It's a Craftsman DYS4500 with a 26 HP Kohler PS-SV735 engine. He used it for 9 years and once he started having an issue with it he got a replacement and gave me this one to play around. The motor runs fine but it has a starting issue. Mower will not start up after turning it off. Cranks a bit, and if you keep on cranking it wont event turn over after that. I have to wait for approximately 15 minutes before I can start it again. My father replaced the starter and starter relay but the problem persists. He did take it for service one time and was told that the issue is caused by excess of pressure build up in the engine after it is turned off. There is some sort of pressure bleed valve on the bottom of the motor that is not working right. The repair would cost $500 to replace the valve. My father wanted to upgrade the mower so this was a perfect excuse to purchase a new unit. At the moment my financial situation is where I can not afford a new mower since I am in school. I would like to get this one fixed. So my question is, does anybody know what this bleed valve is or was the tech confused? Any assistance is appreciated.
So, I recently received a donated riding mower from my father. It's a Craftsman DYS4500 with a 26 HP Kohler PS-SV735 engine. He used it for 9 years and once he started having an issue with it he got a replacement and gave me this one to play around. The motor runs fine but it has a starting issue. Mower will not start up after turning it off. Cranks a bit, and if you keep on cranking it wont event turn over after that. I have to wait for approximately 15 minutes before I can start it again. My father replaced the starter and starter relay but the problem persists. He did take it for service one time and was told that the issue is caused by excess of pressure build up in the engine after it is turned off. There is some sort of pressure bleed valve on the bottom of the motor that is not working right. The repair would cost $500 to replace the valve. My father wanted to upgrade the mower so this was a perfect excuse to purchase a new unit. At the moment my financial situation is where I can not afford a new mower since I am in school. I would like to get this one fixed. So my question is, does anybody know what this bleed valve is or was the tech confused? Any assistance is appreciated.
#2
M
mechanic mark
M
mechanic mark
post model number from under seat beginning with 917. remove spark plugs, how do they look?
google Sears Parts Direct then enter model # 917276905 for operators & parts manuals
http://resources.kohler.com/power/kohler/enginesUS/pdf/32_690_01_EN.pdf engine service manual see troubleshooting page 17.
adjust valveshttps://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...v735/sv735-0017-sears-husqvarna-26-hp-19-4-kw
google Sears Parts Direct then enter model # 917276905 for operators & parts manuals
http://resources.kohler.com/power/kohler/enginesUS/pdf/32_690_01_EN.pdf engine service manual see troubleshooting page 17.
adjust valveshttps://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...v735/sv735-0017-sears-husqvarna-26-hp-19-4-kw
#3
S
Someone
It's a 917.276905.
Took out the spark plugs. They look fine. Here is why I don't think it has anything to do with the spark plugs. The second time starting after it is turned off, started has hardly any power to turn the engine over even once, and mostly its unable. Only after waiting for 10-15 minutes can I start the mower normally.
S
Someone
post model number from under seat beginning with 917. remove spark plugs, how do they look?
It's a 917.276905.
Took out the spark plugs. They look fine. Here is why I don't think it has anything to do with the spark plugs. The second time starting after it is turned off, started has hardly any power to turn the engine over even once, and mostly its unable. Only after waiting for 10-15 minutes can I start the mower normally.
#4
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Next time it stops check to see if you have spark. If there is no spark you may have a hot short or hot open in the coil, which will reset itself when it cools. If this is the case, no spark, time to replace the coil.
#5
S
Someone
All right I took out both spark plugs and turned to run. The engine cranks no problem without the spark plugs installed. I do not physically see any sparks on the spark plugs but when I touch the spark plugs I can feel them shocking me. With spark plugs installed will not turn over.
S
Someone
Next time it stops check to see if you have spark. If there is no spark you may have a hot short or hot open in the coil, which will reset itself when it cools. If this is the case, no spark, time to replace the coil.
All right I took out both spark plugs and turned to run. The engine cranks no problem without the spark plugs installed. I do not physically see any sparks on the spark plugs but when I touch the spark plugs I can feel them shocking me. With spark plugs installed will not turn over.
#6
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Are you grounding the spark plugs to the engine when checking for spark? If you are and still see no spark, I would be replacing the coil. I am assuming you are doing this test when then engine is good and hot.
#7
S
Someone
I have tried your method by grounding the plugs to the engine (basically touching the plugs to the engine, metal part of the spark plug to the metal molding of the engine) and no spark. I did this when the engine is cool. Also, as of right now, I am unable to crank the engine once the spark plugs are installed. The starter does not have enough power to rotate the engine. This is with a fully charged battery which is weird because I was able to start it just fine when it was cold.
S
Someone
Are you grounding the spark plugs to the engine when checking for spark? If you are and still see no spark, I would be replacing the coil. I am assuming you are doing this test when then engine is good and hot.
I have tried your method by grounding the plugs to the engine (basically touching the plugs to the engine, metal part of the spark plug to the metal molding of the engine) and no spark. I did this when the engine is cool. Also, as of right now, I am unable to crank the engine once the spark plugs are installed. The starter does not have enough power to rotate the engine. This is with a fully charged battery which is weird because I was able to start it just fine when it was cold.
#8
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I’m thinking it may be a hot short or open. The test to see if this is it must be done when the engine is hot. As said, you must see a spark, not just feel a tingle.
#9
S
Someone
S
Someone
I believe I was able to resolve the issue. I have tested the tractor when it is hot and I am able to start it while it is hot. Three major factors contributed to this issue. It was kind of a chain reaction. Some are normal and the the last one was the leading cause. The first one: as the engine gets hot there is thermal expansion of the metal causing higher friction, which is normal and you can't really do much about it. The second, I've noticed was, when the engine is hot there is higher compression inside the engine. Slight but it's there. Combined with friction, I noticed it's about twice as hard to turn the engine by hand. The last issue... drum roll... is cheap *** Chinese knock off starter. This excuse of Chinese ingenuity was the leading cause of the issue. As I've stated before, I was able to start the tractor the first time but second time the starter had no power. Once I put in the new origional equipment manufacturer starter, it was like a breath of fresh air. The thing never started this good. With this said, I did find another issue, faulty ignition switch. Another Chinese peace of crap. I'll be replacing it next.
As one guy said "I am not rich enough to buy cheap stuff". If I origionally spent extra $60 and about OEM starter I would not have wasted so much time, labor and money to find this issue.
Hope this helps.
As one guy said "I am not rich enough to buy cheap stuff". If I origionally spent extra $60 and about OEM starter I would not have wasted so much time, labor and money to find this issue.
Hope this helps.
#10
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Before you get too excited, yes you are right the cheap Chinese starters bought off Amazon Ebay Craigs List only vendors are the junk ones Briggs, Kohler, Stens, Oregon , or Prime Line rejected.
Second, cranking fine plugs out and not being able to overcome compression plugs in is the first sign of a failing decompressor on the crankshaft.
This I feel is what the technician was trying to tell your father.
It is not a difficult repair to do .
$ 400 of the $ 500 quoted is labour.
Whatever you do , don't hold the starter on while it struggles to get over compression.
If it gets like that then turn the engine just over compression by hand then hit the starter so it has time to build up some momentum to help it over full compression.
Otherwise it will be a new cam and a new starter.
Second, cranking fine plugs out and not being able to overcome compression plugs in is the first sign of a failing decompressor on the crankshaft.
This I feel is what the technician was trying to tell your father.
It is not a difficult repair to do .
$ 400 of the $ 500 quoted is labour.
Whatever you do , don't hold the starter on while it struggles to get over compression.
If it gets like that then turn the engine just over compression by hand then hit the starter so it has time to build up some momentum to help it over full compression.
Otherwise it will be a new cam and a new starter.
#11
S
Someone
Yeah, that's what I was doing when it would I could not get it started. I would spin it passed the compression point to give it momentum but no luck. I took off the valve covers to look at the valves. (Watched a video online explaining why there might be too high of a compression and where too look.) Nothing was indicating there was a failure. I also had engine compression test done and the results came back within specification. (I was not present during the test) At least I was told that with how many operating hours I got (540 hours), I should not have compression failure.
If this things starts having issues again, then I might take it in for the crankshaft repair. My father was quoted $500 for parts and labor. I don't have the time nor the skills to do it myself. The only thing that keeps me wanting to work on this thing is the 26hp motor. I was looking to purchase a compact tractor (but decided not to due to the fact is I can't afford one now. They run about 20k here with front loader and backhoe), but the one I was looking at comes with a 24hp engine. If someone can explain to me why the lawn mower has more horse power than a compact tractor.
S
Someone
Before you get too excited, yes you are right the cheap Chinese starters bought off Amazon Ebay Craigs List only vendors are the junk ones Briggs, Kohler, Stens, Oregon , or Prime Line rejected.
Second, cranking fine plugs out and not being able to overcome compression plugs in is the first sign of a failing decompressor on the crankshaft.
This I feel is what the technician was trying to tell your father.
It is not a difficult repair to do .
$ 400 of the $ 500 quoted is labour.
Whatever you do , don't hold the starter on while it struggles to get over compression.
If it gets like that then turn the engine just over compression by hand then hit the starter so it has time to build up some momentum to help it over full compression.
Otherwise it will be a new cam and a new starter.
Yeah, that's what I was doing when it would I could not get it started. I would spin it passed the compression point to give it momentum but no luck. I took off the valve covers to look at the valves. (Watched a video online explaining why there might be too high of a compression and where too look.) Nothing was indicating there was a failure. I also had engine compression test done and the results came back within specification. (I was not present during the test) At least I was told that with how many operating hours I got (540 hours), I should not have compression failure.
If this things starts having issues again, then I might take it in for the crankshaft repair. My father was quoted $500 for parts and labor. I don't have the time nor the skills to do it myself. The only thing that keeps me wanting to work on this thing is the 26hp motor. I was looking to purchase a compact tractor (but decided not to due to the fact is I can't afford one now. They run about 20k here with front loader and backhoe), but the one I was looking at comes with a 24hp engine. If someone can explain to me why the lawn mower has more horse power than a compact tractor.
#12
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Well for a start, your mower probably goes about twice the speed of the compact tractor.
Before you spend big dollars on a real tractor have a look at a used stand on.
If you have under 10 acres they will probably do all you want and usually they can be picked up for a couple of grand.
Even better you can get up front flail mowers for a lot of them as well.
Worth their weight in gold those things.
A compact tractor generally has nothing other than a hydraulic pump and a lot of hydraulic motors & cylinders.
That is a easy job for a small engine.
The landlord has a skid steer with a 3/4 yard bucket and that used to be powered by a 14Hp Wisconsin single, he bought that for $ 500 ( Aus)
Around the fringe of nearly every city there will be a lot of small family farms falling over in favour of growing houses & shopping malls.
Go to a few clearing sales and see what you can get.
None of the Yuppie , Hipster or Millenial wann-be farmers are interested in old tractors, they HAVE to have a nice new Mahindra with an air conditioned cab , usb & phone ports.
Old 40Hp tractors that feed the nation for the past 60 years go for a song and a mechanical pump diesel tractor will be dirt cheap to buy & even cheaper to run.
Add to that they usually come with a host of attachments.
Then there is the hands in your pocket factor.
If the idiots opening their wallets have no idea about what they are buying ~90% of sales then a bigger engine HAS to be better .
Hydro boxes gobble up a lot of power so you see lazyness comes at a big price.
I use a 1966 chain drive , mechanical gear box mower 32" belly mower or 24" out front slasher powered by a mighty 8Hp side banger Briggs.
I got another one with a 34" deck powered by the same 8Hp Briggs and a third with a twin disc 40" deck driven with 10Hp Tecumseh side banger.
All these mowers cut near 3 times as fast as the more modern Husky 42" deck hydro powered by a 19Hp Kohler
I can put the Rovers through 10' of reeds & bull rushes where the creek crosses the road with a little clutch slip.
The Husky can't even drive over them let alone cut.
So about 1/2 the power goes into the electric clutch and power losses in the hydro boxes.
Look at the difference in engine size to deck width on a mower with a vari driver ( always smaller ) compared to a hydro drive ( always bigger )
Before you spend big dollars on a real tractor have a look at a used stand on.
If you have under 10 acres they will probably do all you want and usually they can be picked up for a couple of grand.
Even better you can get up front flail mowers for a lot of them as well.
Worth their weight in gold those things.
A compact tractor generally has nothing other than a hydraulic pump and a lot of hydraulic motors & cylinders.
That is a easy job for a small engine.
The landlord has a skid steer with a 3/4 yard bucket and that used to be powered by a 14Hp Wisconsin single, he bought that for $ 500 ( Aus)
Around the fringe of nearly every city there will be a lot of small family farms falling over in favour of growing houses & shopping malls.
Go to a few clearing sales and see what you can get.
None of the Yuppie , Hipster or Millenial wann-be farmers are interested in old tractors, they HAVE to have a nice new Mahindra with an air conditioned cab , usb & phone ports.
Old 40Hp tractors that feed the nation for the past 60 years go for a song and a mechanical pump diesel tractor will be dirt cheap to buy & even cheaper to run.
Add to that they usually come with a host of attachments.
Then there is the hands in your pocket factor.
If the idiots opening their wallets have no idea about what they are buying ~90% of sales then a bigger engine HAS to be better .
Hydro boxes gobble up a lot of power so you see lazyness comes at a big price.
I use a 1966 chain drive , mechanical gear box mower 32" belly mower or 24" out front slasher powered by a mighty 8Hp side banger Briggs.
I got another one with a 34" deck powered by the same 8Hp Briggs and a third with a twin disc 40" deck driven with 10Hp Tecumseh side banger.
All these mowers cut near 3 times as fast as the more modern Husky 42" deck hydro powered by a 19Hp Kohler
I can put the Rovers through 10' of reeds & bull rushes where the creek crosses the road with a little clutch slip.
The Husky can't even drive over them let alone cut.
So about 1/2 the power goes into the electric clutch and power losses in the hydro boxes.
Look at the difference in engine size to deck width on a mower with a vari driver ( always smaller ) compared to a hydro drive ( always bigger )
#13
Oliver Douglas
Oliver Douglas
Been doing small engines for 40 years and have never told a customer their engine had too much pressure after running.
Rolling the motor with the right valve cover off you can see if the compression release on the cam is working.
If it is not, the engine has too much compression and the assist isnt working.
A leak down will show this also. It should rolling over when you do the left cylinder, and the right one should stall the motor from rolling over if the compression release is in the bottom of the crank case.
Rolling the motor with the right valve cover off you can see if the compression release on the cam is working.
If it is not, the engine has too much compression and the assist isnt working.
A leak down will show this also. It should rolling over when you do the left cylinder, and the right one should stall the motor from rolling over if the compression release is in the bottom of the crank case.