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Courage 22 Start Problem after Mower is Hot

#1

tedantal

tedantal

2016 Cub Cadet XT1 – 46” Deck
Kohler Courage 22 HP V-Twin

Couple of months ago turning the key started resulting in just a click sound. Mower would not start the first couple of key turns. Then a few key turns more, it would start normally. After a few weeks, things got worse until finally all I got were clicks, no start.

I checked and cleaned all connections, checked the battery for charge and removed the starter for a test. Starter spun right up from the mower's 12 volt battery using jumper cables. At this point I'm thinking that it's the starter solenoid.

It was not the solenoid. I know I should have tested it first, but a new one was just $14.

I then replaced the starter motor and it fired right up! Not the end of the story.

Now, when the mower is cold and hasn't been run in a week or so it starts right up with authority. BUT, when it's been mowing for a while, say 30 minutes, and I turn if off for a minute, turning the key to start again just gets a click, like before, the first few key turns. On about the fourth key turn I hear the starter spin up, but not engage the flywheel(?). Finally, on the next key turn the mower starts strong. Runs fine afterwards.

I've had this happen twice in the last month.

I checked the battery and it read 12.3 volts. The battery is the one that came with the mower five years ago. Could it be that the battery gets weak after running awhile and doesn't have enough CCA. But then how does the battery recover sitting for a week?

More likely, I'm thinking heat from the engine effecting the new starter? Ebay starter. Could the new starter be failing? Could heat from the engine cause starters to prematurely fail or at least these types of starters? The starter is tight up against the engine block.

Any ideas would be much appreciated.


#2

B

bertsmobile1

Run a jumper directly from the battery + to the starter +
if it cranks fine you got a bad connection
Still giving grief do the same but with a second jumper from the battery - to a good ground near the starter.
Spins fine = bad ground connection
Still no joy, try using jumpers and a known good battery
Starte r spins fine = bad battery .


#3

3

350Rocket

I'm curious about the outcome of this. I just inherited a 2006 CC with the 23hp v twin. It would only crank half a turn and stop, but I was able to get it going after several tries it would crank just enough to start. I replaced the starter which cured it and it started flawlessly until it had been running a while it did the same thing on a hot restart. Crank half a turn. The original starter shaft had bent, so I let it cool down, charged the battery for a few minutes and it started right up. The battery has good voltage and state of charge but is 8 years old and could have a bad cell or not enough amps on a hot start. I haven't had time to look into it yet, so I'm trying to only start it once per cut, when it's cold. Now that I found out the parking brake allows it to idle with me off the seat.


#4

tedantal

tedantal

bertsmobile1 said:
Run a jumper directly from the battery + to the starter +
if it cranks fine you got a bad connection
Still giving grief do the same but with a second jumper from the battery - to a good ground near the starter.
Spins fine = bad ground connection
Still no joy, try using jumpers and a known good battery
Starte r spins fine = bad battery .
Click to expand...
For the second step, run a jumper from battery + to starter motor + plus a second jumper from the battery - to a good ground near the starter motor OR would it be the starter motor - to a good ground near the starter motor? Thanks


#5

tedantal

tedantal

350Rocket said:
I'm curious about the outcome of this. I just inherited a 2006 CC with the 23hp v twin. It would only crank half a turn and stop, but I was able to get it going after several tries it would crank just enough to start. I replaced the starter which cured it and it started flawlessly until it had been running a while it did the same thing on a hot restart. Crank half a turn. The original starter shaft had bent, so I let it cool down, charged the battery for a few minutes and it started right up. The battery has good voltage and state of charge but is 8 years old and could have a bad cell or not enough amps on a hot start. I haven't had time to look into it yet, so I'm trying to only start it once per cut, when it's cold. Now that I found out the parking brake allows it to idle with me off the seat.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm thinking my battery is 5 yo and may not have enough CCA (cold cranking amps), but then why. like yours. does mine start right up when it's cold? Would that be not enough HCA (hot cranking amps)? :rolleyes: ;)


#6

3

350Rocket

tedantal said:
Yeah, I'm thinking my battery is 5 yo and may not have enough CCA (cold cranking amps), but then why. like yours. does mine start right up when it's cold? Would that be not enough HCA (hot cranking amps)? :rolleyes: ;)
Click to expand...
Sometimes an engine can be harder to start when hot, so it is possible. Especially if the starter is right next to the exhaust. But most of the time mine still starts right up with no sign of a weak battery. It always seems to have 12.7V and more than 80% state of charge according to my battery charger. I haven't load tested it though so it still could be lacking in amps.


#7

B

bertsmobile1

tedantal said:
For the second step, run a jumper from battery + to starter motor + plus a second jumper from the battery - to a good ground near the starter motor OR would it be the starter motor - to a good ground near the starter motor? Thanks
Click to expand...
I use the oil drain bolt cause it is close to the starter & the clamp can hold on nicely
All you are doing is bypassing the mowers battery cables.
I have seen cables where each end looks good but it was corroded through in the middle so a Ω test shows a good cable but it could not carry 1/2 amp


#8

tedantal

tedantal

Tested the battery again. 12.7 volts and while cranking dropped to just 10 volts which I think means it's good. Wires and connections are my next step ... again. Could be the new starter is having probs with engine heat, too. I'll keep you posted. Still cranks right up when he engine is cold.


#9

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

10 volts is getting on the end low for cranking... most good batteries only drop to around 11.5 or higher.


#10

tedantal

tedantal

Scrubcadet10 said:
10 volts is getting on the end low for cranking... most good batteries only drop to around 11.5 or higher. I haven't tested the battery yet when the mower is hot. I'll do that this week and see if there's any change. If the voltages are similar then it could be the battery. Of course this is saying that it'll be hard to start again after it's run awhile.
Click to expand...


#11

tedantal

tedantal

I wonder why the starter doesn't engage only when the mower is hot though? If it sets for a week, fires right up. That's why I'm thinking its temperature related. Thanks


#12

tedantal

tedantal

Mowed for about an hour and turned the mower off. Waited for a few seconds and turned the key to start. First key turn resulted in just a "click" sound. Second turn of the key resulted in a strong, normal start. I'm just gonna live with it, I guess.

Battery checked out at 12.7 volts with a "dip" to 10+ volts when cranking. Then battery recovered to 13+ volts while running.


#13

tedantal

tedantal

Again, after about ten minutes of the engine running, I shut down for a few minutes. Turned the key to restart and just cick, click, click. Removed the engine cover thinking it would cool the engine quicker and waited ren minutes. Fired right up! Ah Ha, engine heat. Problem solved ... NOT!

Ran the engine with the cover off for about five minutes (I was spreading mulch) and then shut down again for about five minutes. Turned the key to restart ... click, click, click. Waited ten, fifteen minutes for the engine to cool further. Still just click, click, click. Jumped the mower battery from my car battery and it started right up. Mower battery still shows 12.7 volts with engine off and drops to about 10 volts when clicking.

I'm thinking new battery.


#14

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

At this point if everything else checks out, i'd buy a battery.. if you go to a parts store (Like O'reilly's, Advance etc.) take the old battery with you and ask them to load test it, most places do it for free.


#15

tedantal

tedantal

Scrubcadet10 said:
At this point if everything else checks out, i'd buy a battery.. if you go to a parts store (Like O'reilly's, Advance etc.) take the old battery with you and ask them to load test it, most places do it for free.
Click to expand...
OK, there's an O'Reilly's in town. I'll post back with the results.

BTW, I forgot to mention that after jump starting, I shut down for the day and tried to restart ... no go. I then put a trickle charger on overnight and it started right up, but it always starts up when the engine is cold. That's what I don't understand.


#16

tedantal

tedantal

I have not had the battery CCA checked. Now it's having a hard time starting (click, click, click) even when cold. MOF the other day it wouldn't start for many clicks and I didn't think it would start at all. Then I rocked the mower while seated on it and it started right up and ran fine for over an hour. (ground?) That was a week ago and I haven't tried starting it since.
The built in battery meter showed 13.4 volts between "clicks" while I was trying to start it. I also fabricated a sheet metal heat shield and placed it between the starter motor and the block in case it was heat causing the problem.


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