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Constant flooding

#1

C

Coinhunter

I am on my 4th carburetor trying to stop my Kohler engine from flooding. I have purchased the cheapo carbs and progressively bought a better one each time. This last one is a Stens 520-118 to fit the Kohler CV493 engine. I have also replaced the fuel pump 2x. Nothing I do seems to help or stop the problem. You can start the motor, it will run long enough for more fuel to be pulled from the tank and then stop. After sitting for 5-10 minutes it will restart as long as the fuel is turned off. Turn it on the same thing happens. I did manage to get it running long enough to back it out and make one lap in my yard before stopping. This was accomplished by restricting the flow using the fuel shut off valve. I haven't been able to do this again. I am at my wits end. Could it possibly be the valves are so far out that it is creating too much vacuum through the ovhc port that pulls the fuel out of the tank to the carb? Can anyone help me please? My son in laws brother normally helps me but he is tired of fooling with it and I don't blame him.


#2

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

My guess is you have rubber fuel lines coming apart internally or trash in the tank and lines and its getting caught in the needle valve and holding it open. When the carb starts flooding again, take it apart, take the needle out and clean the seat area out and the fuel inlet out, reinstall and see what happens


#3

C

Coinhunter

Thank you for your suggestions. I have done all the following, all fuel lines have been replaced, new filter, tank removed and cleaned, flywheel removed and head area fins cleaned out, flywheel key replaced, new coil, new everything electrical replaced. I have even washed the engine block removing grease and grime and polished some of the discolored aluminum back to shine. I am recovering from hip replacement so I have some free time. LOL If I can get it running good the mower is going into my garage for a disassembly complete washing sandblasting and repaint. I want my stuff to look new even when it is 12 -15 years old.


#4

M

MParr

Have you looked at the spark plugs? Are they wet?


#5

C

Coinhunter

MParr said:
Have you looked at the spark plugs? Are they wet?
Click to expand...
Single cylinder and the plug is very wet. You can see fuel standing in the air intake body. When it drys out it will start up again. Then same thing over and over.


#6

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Before we go any further lets get the complete model and spec number off the engine CV493-_ _ _ _
Alot of times there are different Carburetors used on the same engine model, one may be gravity fed, and the other a pump feed.. If you put a gravity feed on a pump engine, that won't work. (Some one like StarTech, rivets or illengine could explain this much better)


#7

I

ILENGINE

Scrubcadet10 said:
Before we go any further lets get the complete model and spec number off the engine CV493-_ _ _ _
Alot of times there are different Carburetors used on the same engine model, one may be gravity fed, and the other a pump feed.. If you put a gravity feed on a pump engine, that won't work. (Some one like StarTech, rivets or illengine could explain this much better)
Click to expand...
Fuel pump carbs use a smaller opening in the float valve seat to help prevent fuel pressure from a pump from overwhelming the float.

Also appears that the 520-118 or replacement for the 12 853 117-S carb is for the fuel pump equipped engine.

This may not apply but make sure that the gasket between the carb and the air filter mounting base isn't restricting the carb vent which could be located off to one side of the venturi on the gasket mounting flange. If the carb bowl vent gets blocked off can cause a siphoning effect.


#8

C

Coinhunter

Here is what I know based upon my service manual. Kohler CV493-27523. I purchased the mower used. I cannot find anything on the engine block or on any housing on the motor. The Kohler label peeled of in pieces 3 or 4 years ago.
Also I was wrong on my earlier post this one uses the cam powered fuel pump and I purchased the Stens unit for it also. My Cub Cadet has the draft style pump. It doesn't run either.


#9

C

Coinhunter

Here are the pictures of the new Stens carb. 520-118 to replace the original 12-853-117-S. The gaskets included with the carb do not have any openings for the two small holes you can see in picture one. The second picture has a recessed port 1/4 inch inside the casting so there is no way to block it off. Have they included the wrong gaskets in the kit? I believe all of the carbs I have installed have had the same type. I can make one if that is what I need to do.

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#10

M

MParr

Coinhunter said:
Here is what I know based upon my service manual. Kohler CV493-27523. I purchased the mower used. I cannot find anything on the engine block or on any housing on the motor. The Kohler label peeled of in pieces 3 or 4 years ago.
Also I was wrong on my earlier post this one uses the cam powered fuel pump and I purchased the Stens unit for it also. My Cub Cadet has the draft style pump. It doesn't run either.
Click to expand...
Okay, let’s start with the numbers of your Kohler manual. The CV393-27523 is for an 18hp Ferris. Is this a Ferris mower?
Is the bottom of your fuel tank above the carburetor?


#11

C

Coinhunter

No, it also is or was used on Snapper branded mowers which is now a part of Ferris I believe. It is a 18hp Kohler Courage motor. B&S bought it all in 2004 so technically it is all part of Briggs.


#12

I

ILENGINE

Coinhunter said:
Here are the pictures of the new Stens carb. 520-118 to replace the original 12-853-117-S. The gaskets included with the carb do not have any openings for the two small holes you can see in picture one. The second picture has a recessed port 1/4 inch inside the casting so there is no way to block it off. Have they included the wrong gaskets in the kit? I believe all of the carbs I have installed have had the same type. I can make one if that is what I need to do.
Click to expand...
Picture 2 shows the bowl vent so that is not the issue.


#13

M

MParr

Coinhunter said:
No, it also is or was used on Snapper branded mowers which is now a part of Ferris I believe. It is a 18hp Kohler Courage motor. B&S bought it all in 2004 so technically it is all part of Briggs.
Click to expand...
Is this a Snapper mower? Is the bottom of the fuel tank above the carburetor?


#14

C

Coinhunter

MParr said:
Is this a Snapper mower? Is the bottom of the fuel tank above the carburetor?
Click to expand...
Yes to Snapper, yes to higher than fuel pump and carb just barely. It actually pulls from the bottom of the tank through the tubing up to the top of the tank and then down to the pump.


#15

C

Coinhunter

Can anyone send or post pictures of the choke and throttle linkage connections? Also the bottom governor spring connection point on a Kohler CV493 engine. I need to double check I haven't connected them incorrectly. I forgot to take pictures myself and the repair manual does not show them.


#16

M

MParr

Coinhunter said:
Can anyone send or post pictures of the choke and throttle linkage connections? Also the bottom governor spring connection point on a Kohler CV493 engine. I need to double check I haven't connected them incorrectly. I forgot to take pictures myself and the repair manual does not show them.
Click to expand...
Start by giving the model number and serial number of the mower.

Product Manuals & Parts List | Snapper

For information about your Snapper product safety, operation, troubleshooting and more, use your Snapper manual and parts list.
www.snapper.com www.snapper.com


#17

C

Coinhunter

FastCut HYDRO DRIVE ZTR SERIES 0 Model No. 5091000 ZT18440KH. But this manual is just a shortened version of my service manual. I need an exploded view od the Kohler engine CV-493. I found one but it doesn't show linkage connection points.


#18

M

MParr

Coinhunter said:
FastCut HYDRO DRIVE ZTR SERIES 0 Model No. 5091000 ZT18440KH. But this manual is just a shortened version of my service manual. I need an exploded view od the Kohler engine CV-493. I found one but it doesn't show linkage connection points.
Click to expand...


#19

A

Auto Doc's

Replace the crankcase breather, it is full of old oil carbon. Sorry, cleaning does not work.


#20

B

bertsmobile1

Pull the carb off flip it upside down.
The weight of the float should hold back 14 psi ( atmospheric pressure , sort of ) , but usually 10 PSI is good enough
If it does not then there is some thing wrong with your carb
If it does then there is something wrong with your mower
remove the fuel cap
if that fixes the problem check the tank vent
Some time between 2000 and 2010 all states EPA regulations changed so the vent has to go inside the engine, usually to spiggot in the manifold
Some times these can syphon fuel into the engine


#21

V

VegetiveSteam

Coinhunter said:
No, it also is or was used on Snapper branded mowers which is now a part of Ferris I believe. It is a 18hp Kohler Courage motor. B&S bought it all in 2004 so technically it is all part of Briggs.
Click to expand...
If it is indeed a Courage, it's not a CV493 so you may want to get a Courage manual.


#22

S

Skippydiesel

As a temporary measure , you could try bypassing the fuel pump and see if the engine runs on gravity feed only (might have to fill the fuel tank). If engine runs well, then the carb flooding problem is elsewhere.


#23

StarTech

StarTech

Please be aware most tanks do not vent outwards just inwards to break the vacuum. This why the needle and seat must seal properly or you have fuel leakage out the carb.


#24

E

edwardh1

I had a carb gasket problem on a carb on a car 20 years ago and use the cut it method as needed when installing. I wrote the supplier _NAPA or who ever- woman called me from Arizona she said we have been specing/selling this gasket in the US for 2 years and yours is the first complaint. She said I tried it and you are correct we spec the wrong gasket.


#25

G

Gord Baker

Coinhunter said:
I am on my 4th carburetor trying to stop my Kohler engine from flooding. I have purchased the cheapo carbs and progressively bought a better one each time. This last one is a Stens 520-118 to fit the Kohler CV493 engine. I have also replaced the fuel pump 2x. Nothing I do seems to help or stop the problem. You can start the motor, it will run long enough for more fuel to be pulled from the tank and then stop. After sitting for 5-10 minutes it will restart as long as the fuel is turned off. Turn it on the same thing happens. I did manage to get it running long enough to back it out and make one lap in my yard before stopping. This was accomplished by restricting the flow using the fuel shut off valve. I haven't been able to do this again. I am at my wits end. Could it possibly be the valves are so far out that it is creating too much vacuum through the ovhc port that pulls the fuel out of the tank to the carb? Can anyone help me please? My son in laws brother normally helps me but he is tired of fooling with it and I don't blame him.
Click to expand...
Do you find any particles in the Float bowl? Is the fuel going into the crankcase as well? Drain the fuel tank and save a half cup in a glass container and leave that sit. Remove the Fuel filter if you have one and blow the line back into the tank with Fuel Cap off. Get All the Fuel out of the Tank (Turkey Baster works for this task). With a cloth around a stick try to mop the bottom of the tank so it is clean. Blow out line again with Compressor and re mop. Empty dregs of fuel from your portable tank and never try for the last drop.
Check inside it for 'clean'. Fill tank halfway, install new filter. Your problem has nothing to do with valves.
Good Luck. Don't mess with the float level.


#26

B

bentrim

Be sure the bowl vent for the carburetor is not blocked or restricted. Sometimes the air cleaner gasket or even the air cleaner plate restrict or block the bowl vent and allow the carburetor to flood.


#27

VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ

VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ

Coinhunter said:
I am on my 4th carburetor trying to stop my Kohler engine from flooding. I have purchased the cheapo carbs and progressively bought a better one each time. This last one is a Stens 520-118 to fit the Kohler CV493 engine. I have also replaced the fuel pump 2x. Nothing I do seems to help or stop the problem. You can start the motor, it will run long enough for more fuel to be pulled from the tank and then stop. After sitting for 5-10 minutes it will restart as long as the fuel is turned off. Turn it on the same thing happens. I did manage to get it running long enough to back it out and make one lap in my yard before stopping. This was accomplished by restricting the flow using the fuel shut off valve. I haven't been able to do this again. I am at my wits end. Could it possibly be the valves are so far out that it is creating too much vacuum through the ovhc port that pulls the fuel out of the tank to the carb? Can anyone help me please? My son in laws brother normally helps me but he is tired of fooling with it and I don't blame him.
Click to expand...
Get a Stens 120-444 fuel filter in the line. It acts like dirt continues to invade the float and defeat the needle/seat. Also add Marvels Mystery Oil or 2 cycle oil to the gas. Ethanol is a solvent and makes the float valve stick, a bit of oil in the gas helps lube the needle so that it will seal in. Hope these simple steps help ( That fuel filter is larger and has the surface area while is an 11 micron fine fine filter even stops most water ).


#28

R

RevB

MParr said:
Start by giving the model number and serial number of the mower.

Product Manuals & Parts List | Snapper

For information about your Snapper product safety, operation, troubleshooting and more, use your Snapper manual and parts list.
www.snapper.com www.snapper.com
Click to expand...
Yeah....that'll help......🙄


#29

R

rhkraft

No mention of the air cleaner. It could be partially plugged choking the engine. Remove the air cleaner and try again. Shooting in the dark here.


#30

C

Coinhunter

VegetiveSteam said:
If it is indeed a Courage, it's not a CV493 so you may want to get a Courage manual.
Click to expand...
You are correct! It is not a Courage model, It is a Command model. I made a mistake. I knew it was the command series, but for some reason my brain made me type Courage. That happens to me a lot. Especially on my cell phone.



cp


#31

C

Coinhunter

rhkraft said:
No mention of the air cleaner. It could be partially plugged choking the engine. Remove the air cleaner and try again. Shooting in the dark here.
Click to expand...
Brand new air filter/cleaner.


#32

C

Coinhunter

VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ said:
Get a Stens 120-444 fuel filter in the line. It acts like dirt continues to invade the float and defeat the needle/seat. Also add Marvels Mystery Oil or 2 cycle oil to the gas. Ethanol is a solvent and makes the float valve stick, a bit of oil in the gas helps lube the needle so that it will seal in. Hope these simple steps help ( That fuel filter is larger and has the surface area while is an 11 micron fine fine filter even stops most water ).
Click to expand...
Bought one with the carb. I only run pure gas no ethanol here.


#33

C

Coinhunter

Gord Baker said:
Do you find any particles in the Float bowl? Is the fuel going into the crankcase as well? Drain the fuel tank and save a half cup in a glass container and leave that sit. Remove the Fuel filter if you have one and blow the line back into the tank with Fuel Cap off. Get All the Fuel out of the Tank (Turkey Baster works for this task). With a cloth around a stick try to mop the bottom of the tank so it is clean. Blow out line again with Compressor and re mop. Empty dregs of fuel from your portable tank and never try for the last drop.
Check inside it for 'clean'. Fill tank halfway, install new filter. Your problem has nothing to do with valves.
Good Luck. Don't mess with the float level.
Click to expand...
When I started this project from Hades, one of the first things I did was remove the fuel tank and make sure it was clean. That is a real pain as this is a zero turn and I have to remove the entire left side of the mower. But to answer your suggestions everyone of them I have completed. I even purchased a new fuel tank to buy fuel in as the handle on my old one split open at the seam.


#34

F

Forest#2

Read post #20 and 23 twice. Then go back nd read post 20 again.

Use a pressure/vacuum tester gauge such as a mityvac. (to test the carb needle/seat and the gas tank venting. (If it's the Nikki clone type single barrel carbs the needle/seat can be ok but internal seals above the plastic can bypass the needle/seat) the mityvac will detect such.

The mityvac will cost less than what you are spending on carb's and parts and you will have it for future testing. (and you can do logical testing with the mityvac instead of just buying parts and hoping for the best)
Look at a mityvac 8500.


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