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Click Behind Dash No Crank

#1

B

bk10s

Simplicity Broadmoor 1693600 with Briggs Vanguard 18 V-Twin 350777. 553 hours. Parked the mower last week, running fine. No start today. Have fuel, but only spark from 1 cylinder for 3-4 seconds while cranking then no spark. Battery 100%. Now starter does not move. There is a click behind the dash every few seconds when the key is in the on position, and a clunk when the key is turned to the start position. I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction before throwing parts at it!


#2

M

mechanic mark

Don't go throwing parts at tractor, troubleshoot & resolve issue at hand, you will save money & feel better. Raise hood & check all electrical connections by hand & eyes making sure there is no corrosion & connections are tight & secure at all locations on tractor, ground cables included. You said battery is 100%, I say remove battery & have it load tested at Oreillys battery test machine inside, not hand held tester, at no cost to you, tell them thanks. Machine tests all inner workings of battery. Use a 12v test light or multimeter for testing electrical continuity. I would pick up a can of CRC Electrical Cleaner or equivalent & Silicone Dielectric Grease to use at all electrical connections. Let us know how it goes, thanks Mark


#3

B

bk10s

All connections are clean and secure. Wire from solenoid to starter was loose at the solenoid. Battery new. Only a clunk from the solenoid when key turned to start position. No sound or movement from the starter.


#4

R

Rivets

Do you own battery test. Connect you VOM to the battery and take a reading. Next turn the key to the start position and take a second reading. If the second reading drops below 10VDC your battery is bad.


#5

Fish

Fish

Wait until dark, then watch the area while someone cranks the engine. If you see any spark, that is normally your problem area.


#6

B

bk10s

Do you own battery test. Connect you VOM to the battery and take a reading. Next turn the key to the start position and take a second reading. If the second reading drops below 10VDC your battery is bad.
Thank you, Rivets. Battery tests good. I tried to jump the solenoid with jumper wire, still nothing. Starter?


#7

R

Rivets

Before spending big bucks on a New starter, go through this procedure. Want to narrow down the cause first.


Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.

1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.

Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.

First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.

After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.

Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.


#8

B

bk10s

Thank you for all of the GREAT advice. With my multi-meter, I carefully went through the steps Rivets described. When everything checked out, I zeroed in on the starter. The right side mounting bolt is not easy to remove. Ended up getting a 1/4 drive 1/2" socket on the bolt with an extension, and then was able to push the socket onto the bolt with a screwdriver. Then the 1/4" extension would fit and I got it out. I tried the starter with jumper cables attached and.....nothing. So, I was able to locate a used starter for this Vanguard for $20. I replaced the right side difficult bolt with an allen head and lock washer - Worked great. Put it in and mowed!

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#9

B

bk10s

Before spending big bucks on a New starter, go through this procedure. Want to narrow down the cause first.


Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.

1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.

Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.

First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.

After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.

Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
Thanks again, Rivets, mechanic mark, and everyone!


#10

StarTech

StarTech

Most those Briggs starter bolts do use a large torx bit for removal. Don't remember the exact size but it is my torx tool box.


#11

R

Rivets

If my memory is still working I believe it is a #50 Torx bit.


#12

StarTech

StarTech

I had some spare time especially something on my air compressor blew and I have dig it out after the rain. Went and measured my Torx T wrench and it is a T40 that I used to remove most of the Briggs starters.


#13

R

Rivets

I was close


#14

B

bertsmobile1

Little trick is to wind up the bendex to the top of the shaft which will give you clean access to the bolt using an extension on a short socket
Even when using a torx driver it is easier if you move the pinion up out of the way


#15

B

bk10s

You guys are so smart...Thanks again!


#16

B

bertsmobile1

You guys are so smart...Thanks again!
You have suffered it once
We suffer it once a day
So you learn pretty quick.


#17

J

jviews12

dirty contacts somewhere.


#18

T

turbobike1

dirty contacts somewhere.
AGREED ! I have a Craftsmen 26 hp lawn tractor w/B&S engine. it is 16 yrs old, and I have replaced the ignition switch twice already and it needs another now. It was a dry dusty summer and all the crap gets into everything, including this switch.


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