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Do the Forum members think there is any benefit in changing the hydrodrive/transmission oil on a Toro Wheel Horse 17 hp?
(FYI mower performs very well but in the past I have had a hydraulic transmission fail & have always wondered if a timely oil change might have extended its working life)

Should the consensus be, it would be beneficial to do this - any thoughts on best oil for the job?

I realise that this may require the transmission/transaxle being removed from the mower, as there does not seem to be any provision for draining the old oil.

Hydros are designed to fail
Oil changes can prolong their life if you do not introduce dust into the box when you change the oil
Down side is purging has bare metal running on bare metal so you sort of end up in square one
When they get very grumbly and old you can go p a viscosity grade or two
Say from 20W 50 to ?w60 or even harley oil 40W70 .
I have squeezed an extra 500 hours out of some JD 100 models by resorting to thicker oil
If it has an internal brake the oil changing is very good Idea around 200 to 300 hrs as brake debris accumulates in the box .

Yeah, they really are designed to fail with the internal brake and the brake dust circulating in the oil . External brakes are better that way.

Craftsman Garage said:

Yeah, they really are designed to fail with the internal brake and the brake dust circulating in the oil . External brakes are better that way.

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Easy there. Think what Bert was getting at is any oil contamination is no good. I'm guessing, that internal brake is a wet brake design? Inside the pump motor? I don't know. I will never own any mower with hydros. Belts are so much easier and cheaper to maintain.

I believe there is an immense benefit to changing the oil in the transaxels. Every mechanically knowledgeable person knows there will be wear particles in that oil that’s detrimental to the life of the unit. I have a 2020 Toro 75754 that I will service this fall. The owners manual says 20w50 motor oil, but I have found a Lucas 20w50 that is meant for transaxels. I intend to use that. I am interested if there are experienced opinions on it though.

"The owners manual says 20w50 motor oil, but I have found a Lucas 20w50 that is meant for transaxels."

Please elaborate - in what way is the Lucas oil any diffrent to what he manual is recommending?

Skippydiesel said:

"The owners manual says 20w50 motor oil, but I have found a Lucas 20w50 that is meant for transaxels."

Please elaborate - in what way is the Lucas oil any diffrent to what he manual is recommending?

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I looked it up and read the specs.

Using the Lucas 20w50 is my gamble. I have read the Toro manuals for the transaxels on my 75754. My thoughts are motor oils are designed for motors (engines) and hydraulic oils are designed for hydraulic systems. Obviously, 20w50 motor oil will work in my transaxels, but I believe 20w50 hydraulic oil will work better. If my transaxels bite it, well it’s my $2000. I’ve been using tuff torque hydrostatic John Deere’s for over 30 years, which were built with easily serviced drain plugs and filters by the way. I hate to think that these are built to fail, but 2 of my local Toro dealers mechanics looked me in the eyes and told me the transaxels are factory sealed and not serviceable. What BS! If this blows up in my face, I promise I’ll post it on here as I munch crow. We’ll see.

cliffblue said:

Using the Lucas 20w50 is my gamble. I have read the Toro manuals for the transaxels on my 75754. My thoughts are motor oils are designed for motors (engines) and hydraulic oils are designed for hydraulic systems. Obviously, 20w50 motor oil will work in my transaxels, but I believe 20w50 hydraulic oil will work better. If my transaxels bite it, well it’s my $2000. I’ve been using tuff torque hydrostatic John Deere’s for over 30 years, which were built with easily serviced drain plugs and filters by the way. I hate to think that these are built to fail, but 2 of my local Toro dealers mechanics looked me in the eyes and told me the transaxels are factory sealed and not serviceable. What BS! If this blows up in my face, I promise I’ll post it on here as I munch crow. We’ll see.

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I was just about to comment on this very same point. Motor oils are formulated for cars and trucks. Hydro oils and for hydros. If I ever had a mower with hydros I would use hydro fluid. Never happen as I will never have a mower with hydro anything. All that loud whining growling sound means trouble.

I did a drain and fill on my Toro 75734 by sucking the oil out when the hydros were hot at about 80 hours. Got about 0.75 qt out of each one and filled an old pickle jar with it. The oil sat in that clean jar for months. I just drained the jar the other day when I was turning in old oil and there was about an 1/8 inch of grey sludge at the bottom of the jar. I was pretty surprised at that. I have about 120 hours now and I will probably do another drain and fill at the end of this season. Unfortunately these are 'factory sealed' units with no drain plugs or external filters. The only was to do the service without removing them is by sucking the oil out through the fill cap. I put Valvoline 20w50 full synthetic in it.

cliffblue said:

Using the Lucas 20w50 is my gamble.

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Is this what you are using?

Lucas Synthetic Blend Mower Transmission Fluid 20W-50 1 Quart - 11300

shurguywutt said:

I put Valvoline 20w50 full synthetic in it.

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Which is not a true synthetic. All motor oils in the US have no regulatory body to demand the product is a real synthetic oil. Europe does. We all can thank our court system for that.

It's your mower. I have no fight in this. Run what you like. Better than not adding any fresh what ever oil of the week I guess.

I would be looking into some Deere 20w-50 hydro oil if it was mine.

shurguywutt said:

Is this what you are using?

Lucas Synthetic Blend Mower Transmission Fluid 20W-50 1 Quart - 11300

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I haven’t bought it yet, but yes, that’s what I’m looking at.

slomo said:

Which is not a true synthetic. All motor oils in the US have no regulatory body to demand the product is a real synthetic oil. Europe does. We all can thank our court system for that.

It's your mower. I have no fight in this. Run what you like. Better than not adding any fresh what ever oil of the week I guess.

I would be looking into some Deere 20w-50 hydro oil if it was mine.

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Great to have options!

I was told by a company that supplies parts to rebuild hydro transaxles not to use motor oils due to the detergents in them. They tend to foam up and can cause cavitation in the pump.

I don't recall the type of oil I used when I rebuilt a hydro last summer. I'll check. But it was what was recommended by the supplier of the hydro parts I needed.

EDIT: Stens Shield Hydrostatic Transmission Fluid 20W50. Found it at Walmart, IIRC.

Keep in mind that hydro fluid is hotter than engine oil.

Nothing wrong with having hydro mower. I have a 2004 JD LX280 hydro that works just as good as the day I bought it!

cliffblue said:

Using the Lucas 20w50 is my gamble. I have read the Toro manuals for the transaxels on my 75754. My thoughts are motor oils are designed for motors (engines) and hydraulic oils are designed for hydraulic systems. Obviously, 20w50 motor oil will work in my transaxels, but I believe 20w50 hydraulic oil will work better. If my transaxels bite it, well it’s my $2000. I’ve been using tuff torque hydrostatic John Deere’s for over 30 years, which were built with easily serviced drain plugs and filters by the way. I hate to think that these are built to fail, but 2 of my local Toro dealers mechanics looked me in the eyes and told me the transaxels are factory sealed and not serviceable. What BS! If this blows up in my face, I promise I’ll post it on here as I munch crow. We’ll see.

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I put Amsoil 20w-50 in my Deere hydro at 120 hours. It now has 305 hours
and pulls up my hills like new. Had to remove transaxle and dump old fluid out. Really not that hard to do. Use full synthetic….

Chainged the fluid on mine at about 400 hours. It didn't have any drain plugs so had to be removed from the mower to be drained. I also needed to replace the axle seals as they were leaking but couldn't get the hubs off. Seized onto the shafts. So I decided to open the case and remove the axles to replace the seals. There was some metal on the magnets but the gears didn't look too bad. While open I drilled the case for two drain plugs following youtube vid.

I forget which oil I put back in but I think it was too viscous. It would slip a bit when cold but was fine when warmed up. Now has 5W50 in it.

Note that some Tuff Torq have a plug on top that is prone to splitting (not sure why). If you pressure wash the transmission this can let water into the oil. Replacement plugs have a different design.

gregjo1948 said:

Keep in mind that hydro fluid is hotter than engine oil.

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I'm all ears. Please explain.

A fluid is a fluid is a fluid. The additive pack in motor oil or even the base of it will reach the same temp in said system as regular hydro oil. What did I miss? Thin or viscous at 212F is just that.

I have just replaced the stinking mess (oil) that came out if a Tuff Torq K46 V with full synthetic, Penrite HPR 10, 10W-50 motor oil. No word from the customer at this time but hope it will give the, 30+ year old , mower a few more operating hours.