Changed my mind

[Hammermechanicman]

I’m not bad mouthing TORO, just the Super Recycler version.

I will bad mouth the Toro Timecutters with the stupid electric brake module.

 

[Auto Doc's]

The name "Time cutter" is an illusion that just cost you more time and money.

Similar to many models that now have electronic "intelligent" throttle controls. Let your mower do the thinking for you.... What a gimmick.

 

[LMPPLUS]

Folks we can blame the CEO, the stock holders or who ever we want but the American buying public is to blame for 2+ decades the cry has been "We want it cheaper" and manufacturers have done just that. Say thank you to China when you buy your next mower.

 

[Etbrown44]

I've had excellent experience with with the Honda 21 HRN or HRX two bladed mowers. For the money they are hard to beat and reliability is high in my experience.

 

[Savage3]

Food for thought, possibly the support level has lessened due to the implementation of electric power tools.

The company is probably moving forward with that agenda. Either way, poor excuse for not providing support to existing customers in my humble opinion.

I know our local dealership closed after 60 years. He said he was unhappy with the pressure of selling electric equipment to customers that wanted gas.

So, the dealerships and company have to move forward to maintain profitability. The rest of us will have to deal with the repercussions of those decisions.

Too bad, they choose not to stand by the models they are selling during the transition. As others have mentioned, I see the issue across the industry to include other industries.

Profit over people is the sad reality we face .....

 

[gamma_ray]

To all who have followed this forum for a long time, you will know that I have been a strong supporter of the Toro 21” Super Recycler cast deck mower. I am now changing my mind and can no longer do so. Over the Labor Day weekend I went to the local county fair and was talking to the owner of the business I retired from when COVID struck. He informed me that they were no longer stocking or selling these models. For the past three years their quality and backing by Toro has decreased drastically and this spring they returned almost every model in stock to Toro. He told me Toro is trying to resolve these problems, but has seen no progress. I worked for this business for 12+ years and have known this owner for 40 years, whose business is over 75 years old, and fully trust in what he tells me. My apologies to anyone who has used my support to purchased one of these mowers in the passed 3 years, I’m going to try to keep up on this subject, but as I said, I cannot and will not recommend anyone purchase a Toro Super Recycler cast deck mower. Rivets

We have a Hustler Fastrak 52" been using since 2003 and I just keep it running. I'm not looking foreword to replacing it. I think of it as a collection of parts that can be fixed or replaced when worn out or broken.

 

[leslawman]

I miss my old two cycle Lawn Boy… Never any problems with the ones I had.

 

[igneous]

It’s the same as the automobile industry….planned obsolescence. I have 2 old mowers, a 2 stroke Lawn boy and an aluminum deck super recycler from 90’s - 2000’s that I’ll never get rid of.
Problem is a supply/demand issue. Electric units are getting better and guys in their 20’s-30’s still live with their parents, are not getting married so are not buying homes. Dumbass Powell and the feds have purposely kept interest rates high to stifle Trump’s efforts to stimulate the economy, which also limits home loans.

 

[mcspeed]

@ Rivets, looking at the brighter side, you went to the fair!

 

[TobyU]

Guess you’ve never read my previous replies to what is the best push mower to purchase. I used to say that even the cost of the Toro Super Recycler was high, it was a 20 year mower and worth paying the higher price. I no longer can say that. Honda used to make a quality mower, but they have gotten out the that business. Toro Recyler steel deck is a good mower, but not close to the Super Recycler. For me to now say this is the mower I would now recommend, I would to say “it’s a crap shoot, get what you feel comfortable with”. If you really want an answer, start watching FleaBay, garage sales, Craig’s List, etc. for a Super Recycler built before 2020, and treat it like your first born. As with everything nowadays “They don’t make them like they used to”.

Toro has long been my favorite brand of mower also. This is not to say that they made the best mowers or even overall the best mowers but they did make plenty of good ones that serve people quite well.
They certainly could have improved their mowers over the past about 3 decades if they would have taken some constructive input but they seem to not care about those things.

They, like most other manufacturers, only care about selling mowers and most of their marketing is about price or what I call fake features on paper so you will choose theirs over the one beside it but in reality you'll get no benefit from those features other than a slightly lighter wallet.

While the super recycler or any of the cast deck mowers are "better" bandy stamped steel versions which most people have bought at home Depot over the years (until more recently when they switched to Lowe's) many people didn't need it better mower.

When you say that the super recycler was a 20-year mower, my brain immediately responded that so was the stamped steel deck model.

I've been running a high volume shop for 15 years now but been working on mowers far longer than that.
Since the first generation of these mowers with the shorter more round deck as I call it and the Tecumseh engine, the average person got 15 to 17 years out of the mower before they replaced it, at least in my area.
Some who would get bored and probably didn't really enjoy cleaning their Mower and making it look nicer, would buy a new one around the 12 to 13-year mark but many got well over 20 also.

Sure, they likely had a repair or something during that time just like you would have on a super recycler but if you had multiple people do the math, in most situations the total cost of ownership per year was cheaper with the stamped steel deck because even if you were on your second or third set of drive wheels, the initial savings at purchase more than made up for this.

This is far more true if you do your own repairs and frankly, if a person can't go back to home Depot and buy the replacement Wheels right there on the shelf and remove the half inch head bolt from each Drive wheel and replace the new wheel, I almost think they don't have enough ability to actually mow the lawn and probably shouldn't even be mowing the grass.
It's a considerable difference buying two wheels and putting them on versus taking the mower into a shop and even just having those same two wheels replaced.

Regardless, I'm simply saying that for most customers, those stamped steel deck mowers were beyond adequate if not excellent mowers for them.
They were also 249 to 269 for the front wheel drive mower and 349 to 359 for the personal pace and these prices were rocks solid steady for over 20 years.
Now, those prices aren't so attractive.

Yes, they cheapen some things down over the years so they can keep the price the same and that's why you might be on your third set of wheels and 15 to 18 years as opposed to being on the originals that are still moving the mower at 15 plus again like on those Tecumseh engine rounder decks I mentioned.
After Tecumseh went bankrupt, there were a few of them for part of the year that had the new Briggs engine on the old round deck which is odd to see.

Then they went to the newer deck design which is the taller more squared off deck and then in just a couple of years after that added the bag on demand feature,

I was very happy about the engine switch because I much prefer the Briggs L head to the Tecumseh engine and I also like the deck design better but due to various things, it is not as substantial of a deck.
They get stress cracks and actually break right in the middle of the side discharge whole and it will get small cracks right by the rear wheels but these mowers still function fine for people for years after they crack or break with most of them not even knowing.

They didn't prove the handle on this model though and subsequent models even though they can't seem to figure out how to just pick a good handle design and stick with it!
Those old sagging round deck models with a Tecumseh had that very thinner hard edge metal on the handle for the round tube gets pressed down and the bracket it rested against was also very thin so therefore it wore nice grooves into there from all the pushing down and the handles would sag excessively with no real easy fix.
You could flip the bottom part over on most of them and make it fairly like new again but it would continue to wear.
You could also weld up the bracket part to build it back up and then grind it back down and hit it with some black paint which is what I have done on a number of them because the sagging handle is annoying and while there are two holes for the pins on most of them down there, it's normally already in the highest handle position hole but they really didn't make that to be an adjustment anyways or at least not a good one.

So in my experience the mower from Toro that wasn't even the cast aluminum super recycler was far more than adequate and a good value for people and serve them well so most people had no reason to buy the more expensive aluminum mower but don't get me wrong I love them and prefer them and that's the ones I keep. Lol

Yes, some of the transmissions are better on those and many of the belts are a lot easier to change which is another big positive.

Unfortunately, the engines didn't make much difference unless you went up a couple more steps and bought one of the other engines available from the Toro dealer like kawasaki or Honda.

I am completely not a fan of the older Briggs overhead valve engine which was considered an upgrade but frankly you're more likely to burn out a head gasket on that one then you are on an L head and I have seen pretty much every L head out live those and give fewer problems.

You pretty much ended up with the Briggs or the Tecumseh on so many years and while I like the brakes l head, the cast mower was a better machine than the engine was engine especially if you're talking any type of commercial use or mowing more than one lawn once a week.

Now put a Kawasaki on it and your gold.
But again, the average person doesn't need a Kawasaki because it's just overkill.

Nobody needs a walk behind self-propelled mower that can cut over 4,000 hours when they're likely not going to keep the mower long enough to ever see 500 hours!

In many parts of the world, people keep a lawnmower 20-plus years and don't even have 450 hours on it.
The average person and a lot of the US what's between 25 and 35 hours a year on their mower whether it's a push mower or a riding mower.

Kind of silly to pay extra for a Kawasaki engine whose parts are going to be far more expensive if you do have to replace something with no convenient good used ones sitting around for parts, when the base engine is capable of lasting through four of the lawn mower frames.