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change hydro oil
#1
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
I have a 10 yr old Toro MX5060. 300 hrs. Two local dealers have told me there's no need to change the hydro oil till 500 hrs. I was talking to a rep at the Hyro Gear (I think thats the name of the Co.) about another issue and during the discussion he told me it should be changed. I'd like to hear from people who know on here that does not have any vested interest in the issue. My gut feeling is to have it changed, but I don't know. That brings up another thing -- I don't know if I feel comfortable draining and refilling the hydros. Is it something a homeowner like me can do?
#2
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
change the oil
Not a big job to do
Instructions are on the Hydro gear web page
I like to do them then leave the mower for a couple of days before I purge the air out of the system .
Only real trick is to run the engine as slow as possible and make sure the wheels are jacked up so there is no load on the hydro .
Not a big job to do
Instructions are on the Hydro gear web page
I like to do them then leave the mower for a couple of days before I purge the air out of the system .
Only real trick is to run the engine as slow as possible and make sure the wheels are jacked up so there is no load on the hydro .
#3
7394
7394
No mention of which Hydros ya have ?
#4
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I like doing them at the end of the day and let them sit overnight before purging the systems. Hear the manual for your units. https://www.toro.com/getpub/38099
#7
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Thanks Bert, I will change the hydro oil. I read the manual on HydorGear's website. It sounds easy enough to do. However there's two things I have to contend with. (1) The purging procedure first says (with wheels jacked up) to move the control arms with the bypass valves open, then move the control arms forward and backward 5 or 6 times with the wheels jacked up, engine idling. Repeat with the bypass valves closed. Then do the same thing with wheels on the ground. In an earlier conversation between you and I about the bypass rods and bypass arms I was able to get one side to disengage as it should. You helped a lot on that. The other side I wasn't able to free it up. So, to change oil by the book I'll have to try again to free up that bypass valve. (2) I don't have a torque wrench as the manual suggests torquing the top port plugs to 120 lbs. Maybe I will just have to take it in for the hydro oil change. Two Toro dealers I mentioned this to previously both said wait till 500 hours. So I did. The HydroGear guy though said it already should have been done. Finding an independent like yourself in the Birmingham area ain't easy. I'll look though.change the oil
Not a big job to do
Instructions are on the Hydro gear web page
I like to do them then leave the mower for a couple of days before I purge the air out of the system .
Only real trick is to run the engine as slow as possible and make sure the wheels are jacked up so there is no load on the hydro .
#8
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
MParr, the link you provided is for other hydros different from mine. Mine is a ZT 2800. Anyway, on page 13 of that link it doesn't mention removing the hydros. Its worded the same as the ZT 2800 manual.You will need to remove the transaxles from your unit.
#10
M
MParr
M
MParr
Do they have filters on them? If you have filters, all of the oil will drain from the oil filter mounting spud. If not, you have two options. One is to remove and dump the oil or you will need a fluid extractor..MParr, the link you provided is for other hydros different from mine. Mine is a ZT 2800. Anyway, on page 13 of that link it doesn't mention removing the hydros. Its worded the same as the ZT 2800 manual.
#11
J
jcworks
The instructions from HydroGear website say tighten the filter guard screws to 115 and the top port plugs to 120. I do not have a torque wrench -- I suppose I could buy one if its really necessary to be that exact. $48 at Autozone.....Geesh. Probably cheaper than having it done at a Toro shop.
J
jcworks
Yes, they do have the filters. So, draining is just a matter of removing the filter. Thats good.Do they have filters on them? If you have filters, all of the oil will drain from the oil filter mounting spud. If not, you have two options. One is to remove and dump the oil or you will need a fluid extractor..
The instructions from HydroGear website say tighten the filter guard screws to 115 and the top port plugs to 120. I do not have a torque wrench -- I suppose I could buy one if its really necessary to be that exact. $48 at Autozone.....Geesh. Probably cheaper than having it done at a Toro shop.
#12
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Many auto parts stores have loaner programs, just return the tool and your deposit is refundEd.
#13
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Thats a good idea. I know Auto Zone use to have that loaner program as I doubt I'd ever need one again. I have a stupid question; I have never used a torque wrench. I'm 76. Is 120 lbs something a 76 year old can do? Ha.Many auto parts stores have loaner programs, just return the tool and your deposit is refundEd.
#14
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
You do not need to have the bypass valves open to purge
The reason i is done this way is a hydro has 2 parts a pump and a motor
Both need to get the air removed from them.
Having the bypass valve open allows the pump to be purged first so it is not pumping air & oil into the motor unit .
It will take longer to purge without using the by pass .
Even then some times it will take 100 or more cycles to get all the air out
The cylinders in a hydro are blind like a 2 stroke wipper snipper engine so if there is any load then the air in the cylinder will simply compress & decompress rather than flow out into the breather
The reason i is done this way is a hydro has 2 parts a pump and a motor
Both need to get the air removed from them.
Having the bypass valve open allows the pump to be purged first so it is not pumping air & oil into the motor unit .
It will take longer to purge without using the by pass .
Even then some times it will take 100 or more cycles to get all the air out
The cylinders in a hydro are blind like a 2 stroke wipper snipper engine so if there is any load then the air in the cylinder will simply compress & decompress rather than flow out into the breather
#15
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Yes, they have filters. So, ALL the oil will drain from there, thats good. My only remaining thought is the filter guard screws are to be torqued to 115 and the top port plug to 120. If its really necessary to torque to those levels, if I can't manage that level I suppose a cheater pipe would work.Do they have filters on them? If you have filters, all of the oil will drain from the oil filter mounting spud. If not, you have two options. One is to remove and dump the oil or you will need a fluid extractor..
#16
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Bert, I'm wondering where does that air go in the purging process? How does it get out?........I assume it eventually goes into what I think is called the expansion tank mounted on the frame of the mower is all I can think of, and then out into the atmosphere. I assume the expansion tank is that plastic reservoir that has oil in it when its cold.You do not need to have the bypass valves open to purge
The reason i is done this way is a hydro has 2 parts a pump and a motor
Both need to get the air removed from them.
Having the bypass valve open allows the pump to be purged first so it is not pumping air & oil into the motor unit .
It will take longer to purge without using the by pass .
Even then some times it will take 100 or more cycles to get all the air out
The cylinders in a hydro are blind like a 2 stroke wipper snipper engine so if there is any load then the air in the cylinder will simply compress & decompress rather than flow out into the breather
#17
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
comes out the breather
Go to hydrogear and download the parts diagram
On some you have to fill through the 1/2" breather hole and they are a PIA .
Go to hydrogear and download the parts diagram
On some you have to fill through the 1/2" breather hole and they are a PIA .
#18
7394
7394
There are 2 different types of Hydros, Externally vented (w/Expansion tank(s) mounted above the hydro. Which yours sound like you have.
1 thing of critical importance is cleanliness. Do all the external cleaning BEFORE you even begin to loosen a filter.
Any dirt is the enemy.. Remove the protective Oil filter covers & clean all around & above the filter..
1 thing of critical importance is cleanliness. Do all the external cleaning BEFORE you even begin to loosen a filter.
Any dirt is the enemy.. Remove the protective Oil filter covers & clean all around & above the filter..
#20
7394
Filter guard screws tighten to only 65 INCH lbs, or 5.4 ft lbs ONLY.
See link below..
www.hydro-gear.com
7394
That would be INCH lbs, NOT ft lbs. So converting that = about 10 ft lbs, For Top Port Plug ONLY.HydroGear website say tighten the filter guard screws to 115 and the top port plugs to 120.
Filter guard screws tighten to only 65 INCH lbs, or 5.4 ft lbs ONLY.
See link below..
Commercial Oil Kit - Hydro-Gear
Hydro-Gear’s Transaxle Oil Service Kits contain everything you need to optimize the performance and extend the life of your machine's transaxles. With oil formulated from high-quality base stocks combined with modern performance additives, you can expect your Hydro-Gear drive systems to continue...
www.hydro-gear.com
#21
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
Huge difference between inch pounds and foot pounds (12 times as much in fact). Don’t really need a torque wrench for five or ten foot pounds. Just go slowly, with a wrench not an impact gun, and use common sense.That would be INCH lbs, NOT ft lbs. So converting that = about 10 ft lbs, For Top Port Plug ONLY.
Filter guard screws tighten to only 65 INCH lbs, or 5.4 ft lbs ONLY.
See link below..
Commercial Oil Kit - Hydro-Gear
Hydro-Gear’s Transaxle Oil Service Kits contain everything you need to optimize the performance and extend the life of your machine's transaxles. With oil formulated from high-quality base stocks combined with modern performance additives, you can expect your Hydro-Gear drive systems to continue...
#22
7394
7394
Yes big difference.
#23
M
MParr
M
MParr
I hope that is not Ft.Lb. torque specifications. You torque it down that much and you will strip out the aluminum case. That would be a very bad thing.Yes, they have filters. So, ALL the oil will drain from there, thats good. My only remaining thought is the filter guard screws are to be torqued to 115 and the top port plug to 120. If its really necessary to torque to those levels, if I can't manage that level I suppose a cheater pipe would work.
#24
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
That would be inch pounds not foot pounds.Yes, they have filters. So, ALL the oil will drain from there, thats good. My only remaining thought is the filter guard screws are to be torqued to 115 and the top port plug to 120. If its really necessary to torque to those levels, if I can't manage that level I suppose a cheater pipe would work.
#25
M
MParr
M
MParr
Just snug them down. A combination wrench or a 1/4” ratchet with an extension and swivel are about the only wrenches that will access those plugs. And, you can plan on skinned up hands.That would be inch pounds not foot pounds.
#26
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
I'll call them and check that out.I hope that is not Ft.Lb. torque specifications. You torque it down that much and you will strip out the aluminum case. That would be a very bad thing.
#28
B
bertsmobile1
and yeas I am shouting at you
The tension wrench has 2 purposes
1) to ensure an appropriate level of clamping force is being applied
2) to ensure that force is evenly distributed
Perfect example is all of the boof heads who can not managed to replace the rocker cover on Courage singles .
Go to You tube and watch all of the dullards touting their magic fix for a problem that does not exist because they decided that no tension wrench is needed to get all of the 5mm bolts torqued to 8 ft lbs , over tighten them to the point that they distort then head & tear the gasket .
In fact the latter is more important than the former in most cases .
B
bertsmobile1
A bit off topic but you DO NEED A TENSION WRENCH FOR SMALL TORQUESHuge difference between inch pounds and foot pounds (12 times as much in fact). Don’t really need a torque wrench for five or ten foot pounds. Just go slowly, with a wrench not an impact gun, and use common sense.
and yeas I am shouting at you
The tension wrench has 2 purposes
1) to ensure an appropriate level of clamping force is being applied
2) to ensure that force is evenly distributed
Perfect example is all of the boof heads who can not managed to replace the rocker cover on Courage singles .
Go to You tube and watch all of the dullards touting their magic fix for a problem that does not exist because they decided that no tension wrench is needed to get all of the 5mm bolts torqued to 8 ft lbs , over tighten them to the point that they distort then head & tear the gasket .
In fact the latter is more important than the former in most cases .
#29
7394
7394
Yes I gave you a Link to Hydro-Gear w/all pertinent info for this.. Guess ya missed my posts..Its inch lbs. So, no big deal
#30
D
davis2
D
davis2
Try Harbor freight. With a coupon, you can get a torque wrench for as little as $9.99. That wrench will work well.Yes, they do have the filters. So, draining is just a matter of removing the filter. Thats good.
The instructions from HydroGear website say tighten the filter guard screws to 115 and the top port plugs to 120. I do not have a torque wrench -- I suppose I could buy one if its really necessary to be that exact. $48 at Autozone.....Geesh. Probably cheaper than having it done at a Toro shop.
#31
S
Smith97454
S
Smith97454
Why wouldn’t you change the fluid? Its not expensive and is easy PM. Even without use, oil does have a shelf life or an expiration
I believe my Gravely calls for the first 200hrs and then every 500 after that.
I used this https://www.amsoil.com/c/hydrostatic-transmission-fluid/24/?zo=5959360 and it seemed to quiet them down and make them much smoother.
I believe my Gravely calls for the first 200hrs and then every 500 after that.
I used this https://www.amsoil.com/c/hydrostatic-transmission-fluid/24/?zo=5959360 and it seemed to quiet them down and make them much smoother.
#32
R
Rdr202
First you find the cost to replace the piece of equipment then you get the cost of filters and oil and lubricant.
Now if the equipment cost is way more than the filters, oil and lubricant I go with the oil change.
R
Rdr202
I use a simple formula to know if something needs an oil change.I have a 10 yr old Toro MX5060. 300 hrs. Two local dealers have told me there's no need to change the hydro oil till 500 hrs. I was talking to a rep at the Hyro Gear (I think thats the name of the Co.) about another issue and during the discussion he told me it should be changed. I'd like to hear from people who know on here that does not have any vested interest in the issue. My gut feeling is to have it changed, but I don't know. That brings up another thing -- I don't know if I feel comfortable draining and refilling the hydros. Is it something a homeowner like me can do?
First you find the cost to replace the piece of equipment then you get the cost of filters and oil and lubricant.
Now if the equipment cost is way more than the filters, oil and lubricant I go with the oil change.
#33
rhiebert
rhiebert
I have a 10 yr old Toro MX5060. 300 hrs. Two local dealers have told me there's no need to change the hydro oil till 500 hrs. I was talking to a rep at the Hyro Gear (I think thats the name of the Co.) about another issue and during the discussion he told me it should be changed. I'd like to hear from people who know on here that does not have any vested interest in the issue. My gut feeling is to have it changed, but I don't know. That brings up another thing -- I don't know if I feel comfortable draining and refilling the hydros. Is it something a homeowner like me can do?
#34
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Yes I can see where that can be a pain. I am thinking the wheels would have to be off for sure and maybe a small flexible plastic tubing fitted on a funnel would work here. As for the breather, from what I can tell the breather is for hydros with internal expansion tanks only. There is a small reservoir bolted to the frame which I think is the expansion tank on my mower. I don't think there is a breather on this one. By the way, I got both of those by-pass valves working now whereas I had only one side working. Maybe my pushing back and forth and the WD40 somehow freed it up or just a piece of grit or something. Anyway, thanks for your help on that, I'd have never known just looking on my own. And frankly, neither of the two Toro dealers I talked to about it could solve it -- yet it was so simple.comes out the breather
Go to hydrogear and download the parts diagram
On some you have to fill through the 1/2" breather hole and they are a PIA .
#35
M
moparjoe
M
moparjoe
Like anything that people buy, the manufacturer wants it to wear out so you have to spend more MONEY. What would you rather do, spend money to fix the hydro or spend money on new oil.I have a 10 yr old Toro MX5060. 300 hrs. Two local dealers have told me there's no need to change the hydro oil till 500 hrs. I was talking to a rep at the Hyro Gear (I think thats the name of the Co.) about another issue and during the discussion he told me it should be changed. I'd like to hear from people who know on here that does not have any vested interest in the issue. My gut feeling is to have it changed, but I don't know. That brings up another thing -- I don't know if I feel comfortable draining and refilling the hydros. Is it something a homeowner like me can do?
#36
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Moparjoe, its not the cost of the oil. Its a matter of 3 things. All I get from the dealers is either: (1) it doesnt need it till 500 hours, (2) appearing to be hesitant about doing it and expressing caution that sometimes all the air isn't purged and air lock occurs resulting in being unable to save the hydro. (3) Me being a homeowner, never having serviced a hydro before. Its not the cost of doing so; its a matter of can I do it right [or] do I have confidence in a local Toro dealer doing it and doing it right. Right now I'm leaning toward trusting myself and the info you guys have given me. I'll likely wait till early fall to do this after the mowing season.Like anything that people buy, the manufacturer wants it to wear out so you have to spend more MONEY. What would you rather do, spend money to fix the hydro or spend money on new oil.
#37
R
RogerASki
Thanks, Ski
R
RogerASki
I have a 10 yr old Toro MX5060. 300 hrs. Two local dealers have told me there's no need to change the hydro oil till 500 hrs. I was talking to a rep at the Hyro Gear (I think thats the name of the Co.) about another issue and during the discussion he told me it should be changed. I'd like to hear from people who know on here that does not have any vested interest in the issue. My gut feeling is to have it changed, but I don't know. That brings up another thing -- I don't know if I feel comfortable draining and refilling the hydros. Is it something a homeowner like me can do?
Hi, just saw your post. The link below was posted to Murray Forum. It might help you as it did me. Let me know what you think.I have a 10 yr old Toro MX5060. 300 hrs. Two local dealers have told me there's no need to change the hydro oil till 500 hrs. I was talking to a rep at the Hyro Gear (I think thats the name of the Co.) about another issue and during the discussion he told me it should be changed. I'd like to hear from people who know on here that does not have any vested interest in the issue. My gut feeling is to have it changed, but I don't know. That brings up another thing -- I don't know if I feel comfortable draining and refilling the hydros. Is it something a homeowner like me can do?
Thanks, Ski
#38
B
BTBO
B
BTBO
I have a Scag Liberty Z 48" w/Hydro Gear ZT 2800's. I too called Hydro Gear who said to change the oil and filters @ 75 hrs. After riding on the mower for 10-15 minutes to get the oil warm, I pulled one filter and let it drain, then did the other. Re-filled the system using Amsoil Synthetic 20W50 and Hydro Gear filters. Went through the procedure of purging air from the system with rear wheels off the ground, but worked each side 15-20 times. In my case, the hardest part in doing this was finding a wrench to remove the filters, as there is not much room to swing that wrench. But alas, it all worked out. Make sure you have a pan/container under the filters as the oil rather gushes out when filters are removed.I have a 10 yr old Toro MX5060. 300 hrs. Two local dealers have told me there's no need to change the hydro oil till 500 hrs. I was talking to a rep at the Hyro Gear (I think thats the name of the Co.) about another issue and during the discussion he told me it should be changed. I'd like to hear from people who know on here that does not have any vested interest in the issue. My gut feeling is to have it changed, but I don't know. That brings up another thing -- I don't know if I feel comfortable draining and refilling the hydros. Is it something a homeowner like me can do?
#39
J
jdwalsh
J
jdwalsh
Check that spec again. I'm pretty sure it said 120 INCH/lbs. No torque wrench needed. Just gently snug it up and check for leaks. If not, you're good, if you do have leaks, a little bit more until leak stops. Good luckThanks Bert, I will change the hydro oil. I read the manual on HydorGear's website. It sounds easy enough to do. However there's two things I have to contend with. (1) The purging procedure first says (with wheels jacked up) to move the control arms with the bypass valves open, then move the control arms forward and backward 5 or 6 times with the wheels jacked up, engine idling. Repeat with the bypass valves closed. Then do the same thing with wheels on the ground. In an earlier conversation between you and I about the bypass rods and bypass arms I was able to get one side to disengage as it should. You helped a lot on that. The other side I wasn't able to free it up. So, to change oil by the book I'll have to try again to free up that bypass valve. (2) I don't have a torque wrench as the manual suggests torquing the top port plugs to 120 lbs. Maybe I will just have to take it in for the hydro oil change. Two Toro dealers I mentioned this to previously both said wait till 500 hours. So I did. The HydroGear guy though said it already should have been done. Finding an independent like yourself in the Birmingham area ain't easy. I'll look though.
#40
C
Cajun power
here is what I have ALWAYS done: hand tight...lightly coat the rubber seal on the filter with oil and hand tight, same thing with the top bolts. Hand tight. With the hand...no torque wrenches needed to do this.
there are basic things you will always want to do to prevent damage to the hydros when doing lube changes. I will list several tips that apply to all hydros I have ever serviced:
1. always lift the back wheels...on blocks for safety. I put the entire mower up off the ground, with the rear wheel where the hydros are located pitched down...gravity is your friend when you want to drain the lube...just makes the process easier this way. The key is safety. Because you are going to be starting the engine, sitting on it and running hydros after the oil change! . follow the service manual after the oil is changed...I LISTEN to the sound of the hydros during this air purge procedure...at low engine rpm...then as the sound changes, increasing engine rpm! You can hear the sound change. At first you might hear a slight squealing sound from the hydros....this squealing sound should go away as air is purged. Move the controls SLOWLY. Do not rack them back and forth like you are trying for gold in rowing. Make sure you move the steering bars back and forth and then one forward and one back motion...many many times. The service manual should show you the motion required. I do this for at least 2-5 minutes. THEN I turn engine OFF and let it sit for 10 minutes, grab a cold one, and then I look for leaks. A sheet of paper below the filters and filler plugs/bolts helps to find leaks. Fix any leaks...meaning simply hand tighten again.
2. The service manual should also show exactly how much oil. HOWEVER...AND THIS IS KEY. There will always be some oil that does not drain. So if you go by the service manual, which assumes the hydros are completely empty, then if you fill with the prescribed amount, then you will be overfilling..and that is not good and will damage the hydros. So What I do it measure how much oil drains out. It's a simple thing to do. Then THAT AMOUNT is how much I add. No more. No less. On some hydro systems, there is a reservoir and a min and max fill line. This is usually a COLD FILL LINE. Remember this when replacing hydro. Make sure the hydros are not hot when replacing oil to this line. Follow the service manual.
3. If you don't know what an equivalent hydro oil can be used, then use exactly what the service manual prescribes. (alot of people get confused about oil equivalents...so if this is confusing then just buy exactly what the service manual states). No need to become a rocket surgeon and use specialized oil additives. Just use the correct hydro oil per the service manual.
4. Clean the cooling fans. Just soap and water...since you are working in the area, its a good idea to clean then up..make sure there is nothing twisted around the cooling fan shafts and that the entire hydrodrive body surface is nice and clean...this helps remove debris and grime that can cause problems allowing them to run as cool as possible....I use simple soap and water and a small plastic brush... I do this after adding the hydro oil. This helps identify leaks during the purge test. If you have drained oil all over the hydro drive and machine will confuse you thinking you have a leak.
C
Cajun power
in ALL THE YEARS (DECADES!) I have serviced Hydrostatic Motor Drives I have NEVER used a torque wrench to install filters OR top filler plugs! EVER! You are talking about using a "cheater" bar to install filters and a plug and red flag warning bells going off in my mind! Read the service manual again please. Are you sure it is not INCH POUNDS? ...because it sounds like the use a cheater bar would be for some torque spec so high in the foot pound range that would require huge amounts of force. I find that very very very UNLIKELY. The last thing you want to do is make a mistake and go king kong with a cheater bar and bork up the aluminum threads. So please for the love of all things good and right, please refer to the service manual and not some online forum or youtube video dude telling you some ridiculous torque value requiring a cheater bar. It is most certainly NOT in the foot pound range and NO cheater bar would be necessary to tighten the filter and top bolts! Read the service manual ...Yes, they have filters. So, ALL the oil will drain from there, thats good. My only remaining thought is the filter guard screws are to be torqued to 115 and the top port plug to 120. If its really necessary to torque to those levels, if I can't manage that level I suppose a cheater pipe would work.
here is what I have ALWAYS done: hand tight...lightly coat the rubber seal on the filter with oil and hand tight, same thing with the top bolts. Hand tight. With the hand...no torque wrenches needed to do this.
there are basic things you will always want to do to prevent damage to the hydros when doing lube changes. I will list several tips that apply to all hydros I have ever serviced:
1. always lift the back wheels...on blocks for safety. I put the entire mower up off the ground, with the rear wheel where the hydros are located pitched down...gravity is your friend when you want to drain the lube...just makes the process easier this way. The key is safety. Because you are going to be starting the engine, sitting on it and running hydros after the oil change! . follow the service manual after the oil is changed...I LISTEN to the sound of the hydros during this air purge procedure...at low engine rpm...then as the sound changes, increasing engine rpm! You can hear the sound change. At first you might hear a slight squealing sound from the hydros....this squealing sound should go away as air is purged. Move the controls SLOWLY. Do not rack them back and forth like you are trying for gold in rowing. Make sure you move the steering bars back and forth and then one forward and one back motion...many many times. The service manual should show you the motion required. I do this for at least 2-5 minutes. THEN I turn engine OFF and let it sit for 10 minutes, grab a cold one, and then I look for leaks. A sheet of paper below the filters and filler plugs/bolts helps to find leaks. Fix any leaks...meaning simply hand tighten again.
2. The service manual should also show exactly how much oil. HOWEVER...AND THIS IS KEY. There will always be some oil that does not drain. So if you go by the service manual, which assumes the hydros are completely empty, then if you fill with the prescribed amount, then you will be overfilling..and that is not good and will damage the hydros. So What I do it measure how much oil drains out. It's a simple thing to do. Then THAT AMOUNT is how much I add. No more. No less. On some hydro systems, there is a reservoir and a min and max fill line. This is usually a COLD FILL LINE. Remember this when replacing hydro. Make sure the hydros are not hot when replacing oil to this line. Follow the service manual.
3. If you don't know what an equivalent hydro oil can be used, then use exactly what the service manual prescribes. (alot of people get confused about oil equivalents...so if this is confusing then just buy exactly what the service manual states). No need to become a rocket surgeon and use specialized oil additives. Just use the correct hydro oil per the service manual.
4. Clean the cooling fans. Just soap and water...since you are working in the area, its a good idea to clean then up..make sure there is nothing twisted around the cooling fan shafts and that the entire hydrodrive body surface is nice and clean...this helps remove debris and grime that can cause problems allowing them to run as cool as possible....I use simple soap and water and a small plastic brush... I do this after adding the hydro oil. This helps identify leaks during the purge test. If you have drained oil all over the hydro drive and machine will confuse you thinking you have a leak.
#41
P
perimeterlandscaping@comc
P
perimeterlandscaping@comc
the air purging works over a 1 hr or so period so the air bubbles can work themselves up the line to the reservior. fill it to the required fill level and go mowing and carry some extra oil to top it off as the machine expels the air from the transmission.
changing the fluid is absolutely neccesary and critical to the performance of your transmissions. Ive dropped the oil and replaced and seen significant power increases from just changing the fluid. they are delicate expensive components to be looked after just as you would your engine
changing the fluid is absolutely neccesary and critical to the performance of your transmissions. Ive dropped the oil and replaced and seen significant power increases from just changing the fluid. they are delicate expensive components to be looked after just as you would your engine
#42
R
RevB
R
RevB
Hydro systems with resevoir tanks are just like a standard automatic transmission...you'll never drain them completely and there is no need to do so. And never flush them out, auto trans or hydro. If you have filters replace those first, new ones filled with fluid on installation. Then if you have a resevoir tank suck out as much as you can and refill to proper level. The goal is to replace any additive package (emulsifiers, zinc, or any other additive that the pumps require) that has been mixed with the new hydraulic fluid. That is to say, your new hydraulic oil will come with these items added, you don’t ”add” anything. No air to purge, no extensive disassembly. An inexpensive fluid sucker will get the job done or siphon pump, under $12 usually. Or just a hose and quick suck to start the siphon.
#43
S
Steve Smith
S
Steve Smith
Coincidently I am about to change the transmission oil in my ZTR also. They are Hydro Gear ZT2800 also. They do have filters. That is where you drain them. There is a vent plug at the top that you need to remove. It is a good idea to let them purge the air out slowly overnight. Run them slowly with the wheels off the ground. You will need to defeat the seat safety switch also. I am using after-market filters rather than the expensive brand name ones. I hope that is not a mistake. It calls for 20W-50 oil. Use synthetic if you can find it. Also remember the first oil change comes early at 50 to 100 hours. After that you can go to 500 hours.
#44
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Cajun power you give a good explanation - as has some others on here. Oil: The manual says you can add 20w50 motor oil. I'll likely use whatever HydroGears sells, and filter. The manual says fill to the edge of the top port and no more. Torque wrench: I've already been told about that. I RULED THAT OUT. I went back to the manual and read it was INCH pounds; so just tighten with a standard open end wrench or socket wrench. I got that. Measuring oil: Thats a good idea measuring the amount I drain out. Thanks for your advice. By the way, I'm originally from La. Born in Monroe, later in life we moved to Hammond. Spent many days on the marsh at Leeville and Venice. I heard its all changed up there now.in ALL THE YEARS (DECADES!) I have serviced Hydrostatic Motor Drives I have NEVER used a torque wrench to install filters OR top filler plugs! EVER! You are talking about using a "cheater" bar to install filters and a plug and red flag warning bells going off in my mind! Read the service manual again please. Are you sure it is not INCH POUNDS? ...because it sounds like the use a cheater bar would be for some torque spec so high in the foot pound range that would require huge amounts of force. I find that very very very UNLIKELY. The last thing you want to do is make a mistake and go king kong with a cheater bar and bork up the aluminum threads. So please for the love of all things good and right, please refer to the service manual and not some online forum or youtube video dude telling you some ridiculous torque value requiring a cheater bar. It is most certainly NOT in the foot pound range and NO cheater bar would be necessary to tighten the filter and top bolts! Read the service manual ...
here is what I have ALWAYS done: hand tight...lightly coat the rubber seal on the filter with oil and hand tight, same thing with the top bolts. Hand tight. With the hand...no torque wrenches needed to do this.
there are basic things you will always want to do to prevent damage to the hydros when doing lube changes. I will list several tips that apply to all hydros I have ever serviced:
1. always lift the back wheels...on blocks for safety. I put the entire mower up off the ground, with the rear wheel where the hydros are located pitched down...gravity is your friend when you want to drain the lube...just makes the process easier this way. The key is safety. Because you are going to be starting the engine, sitting on it and running hydros after the oil change! . follow the service manual after the oil is changed...I LISTEN to the sound of the hydros during this air purge procedure...at low engine rpm...then as the sound changes, increasing engine rpm! You can hear the sound change. At first you might hear a slight squealing sound from the hydros....this squealing sound should go away as air is purged. Move the controls SLOWLY. Do not rack them back and forth like you are trying for gold in rowing. Make sure you move the steering bars back and forth and then one forward and one back motion...many many times. The service manual should show you the motion required. I do this for at least 2-5 minutes. THEN I turn engine OFF and let it sit for 10 minutes, grab a cold one, and then I look for leaks. A sheet of paper below the filters and filler plugs/bolts helps to find leaks. Fix any leaks...meaning simply hand tighten again.
2. The service manual should also show exactly how much oil. HOWEVER...AND THIS IS KEY. There will always be some oil that does not drain. So if you go by the service manual, which assumes the hydros are completely empty, then if you fill with the prescribed amount, then you will be overfilling..and that is not good and will damage the hydros. So What I do it measure how much oil drains out. It's a simple thing to do. Then THAT AMOUNT is how much I add. No more. No less. On some hydro systems, there is a reservoir and a min and max fill line. This is usually a COLD FILL LINE. Remember this when replacing hydro. Make sure the hydros are not hot when replacing oil to this line. Follow the service manual.
3. If you don't know what an equivalent hydro oil can be used, then use exactly what the service manual prescribes. (alot of people get confused about oil equivalents...so if this is confusing then just buy exactly what the service manual states). No need to become a rocket surgeon and use specialized oil additives. Just use the correct hydro oil per the service manual.
4. Clean the cooling fans. Just soap and water...since you are working in the area, its a good idea to clean then up..make sure there is nothing twisted around the cooling fan shafts and that the entire hydrodrive body surface is nice and clean...this helps remove debris and grime that can cause problems allowing them to run as cool as possible....I use simple soap and water and a small plastic brush... I do this after adding the hydro oil. This helps identify leaks during the purge test. If you have drained oil all over the hydro drive and machine will confuse you thinking you have a leak.
#45
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Steve Smith, I'm at 300 hours now. I never changed the oil before, and thats sort of what started this conversation. I had two Toro dealers tell me there was no need to change it till 500 hrs. I did what they said. BUT, I was talking to a HydroGears representative on the phone on another matter and he said, No....change the oil.Coincidently I am about to change the transmission oil in my ZTR also. They are Hydro Gear ZT2800 also. They do have filters. That is where you drain them. There is a vent plug at the top that you need to remove. It is a good idea to let them purge the air out slowly overnight. Run them slowly with the wheels off the ground. You will need to defeat the seat safety switch also. I am using after-market filters rather than the expensive brand name ones. I hope that is not a mistake. It calls for 20W-50 oil. Use synthetic if you can find it. Also remember the first oil change comes early at 50 to 100 hours. After that you can go to 500 hours.
#46
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
RevB, I do have the reservoir tank on my machine. Its mounted to the frame of the machine. Good idea on the sucker. I'll look for one, though I'd think that would drain out when the filters are removed. "new ones filled with fluid": The trans filter mounts in sideways. It looks like the fluid would just spill out putting them back in full.Hydro systems with resevoir tanks are just like a standard automatic transmission...you'll never drain them completely and there is no need to do so. And never flush them out, auto trans or hydro. If you have filters replace those first, new ones filled with fluid on installation. Then if you have a resevoir tank suck out as much as you can and refill to proper level. The goal is to replace any additive package (emulsifiers, zinc, or any other additive that the pumps require) that has been mixed with the new hydraulic fluid. That is to say, your new hydraulic oil will come with these items added, you don’t ”add” anything. No air to purge, no extensive disassembly. An inexpensive fluid sucker will get the job done or siphon pump, under $12 usually. Or just a hose and quick suck to start the siphon.
#47
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
jdwalsh, yes I found that out. Went back and re-read the manual. Its inch pounds, no torque wrench needed. Thanks.Check that spec again. I'm pretty sure it said 120 INCH/lbs. No torque wrench needed. Just gently snug it up and check for leaks. If not, you're good, if you do have leaks, a little bit more until leak stops. Good luck
#48
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
BTBO, I have a nice big oil pan , 16 qt I think. I have a small oil filter "wrench" that I use on my 4 stroke outboard and the engine for my ZTR mower. It will probably fit, but I'll check that out before I start. I say its a filter wrench....its more like a cap that fits over the filter you can then loosen it with your hand. If I have to get another one surely auto parts stores should have that.I have a Scag Liberty Z 48" w/Hydro Gear ZT 2800's. I too called Hydro Gear who said to change the oil and filters @ 75 hrs. After riding on the mower for 10-15 minutes to get the oil warm, I pulled one filter and let it drain, then did the other. Re-filled the system using Amsoil Synthetic 20W50 and Hydro Gear filters. Went through the procedure of purging air from the system with rear wheels off the ground, but worked each side 15-20 times. In my case, the hardest part in doing this was finding a wrench to remove the filters, as there is not much room to swing that wrench. But alas, it all worked out. Make sure you have a pan/container under the filters as the oil rather gushes out when filters are removed.
#49
L
LMPPLUS
L
LMPPLUS
Change the oil (20w50) synthetic oil and filters and ward off buying an expensive hydro pump/I have a 10 yr old Toro MX5060. 300 hrs. Two local dealers have told me there's no need to change the hydro oil till 500 hrs. I was talking to a rep at the Hyro Gear (I think thats the name of the Co.) about another issue and during the discussion he told me it should be changed. I'd like to hear from people who know on here that does not have any vested interest in the issue. My gut feeling is to have it changed, but I don't know. That brings up another thing -- I don't know if I feel comfortable draining and refilling the hydros. Is it something a homeowner like me can do?
#50
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
99% of hydro failures happen because the oil and in particular the very fine particulates in the oil were paths between the slots in the valve plate or between the valve plate and the piston chest out of the system.
So to a big extent the more often you change the oil the better as every time you drop the oil the particulates in the oil you toss are removed.
The fact that you never remove 100% is irrevelent .
As for tension wrenches
People who do this eery day of the week end up with a proper feel for proper tightness
People who do this once every 5 years do not
Way back at a show a mod flogging tension wrenches had a stand with 5 bolts into blocks of steel
The public was invited to do them up to the specified tension & any one who got all 5 right won a tension wrench
In 3 days of classic car & motorcycle owners / repairers / restorers lining up to have a go they gave away 8
And no I was not one of the 8 despite trying at least a dozen times over the weekend because I really wanted one of their 6" torque wrenches .
Professions can usually wing it , advising rank ametures to wing it is a bad idea unless you want to replace a lot of broken off breathers .
I have just gotten back to work after a debilitating arthritus attack and funny enough when I check what I have done most are drastically under tightened .
Now I might get my "feel" back or I might not but until that day a quick check is a lot easier that a liability claim against me .
So to a big extent the more often you change the oil the better as every time you drop the oil the particulates in the oil you toss are removed.
The fact that you never remove 100% is irrevelent .
As for tension wrenches
People who do this eery day of the week end up with a proper feel for proper tightness
People who do this once every 5 years do not
Way back at a show a mod flogging tension wrenches had a stand with 5 bolts into blocks of steel
The public was invited to do them up to the specified tension & any one who got all 5 right won a tension wrench
In 3 days of classic car & motorcycle owners / repairers / restorers lining up to have a go they gave away 8
And no I was not one of the 8 despite trying at least a dozen times over the weekend because I really wanted one of their 6" torque wrenches .
Professions can usually wing it , advising rank ametures to wing it is a bad idea unless you want to replace a lot of broken off breathers .
I have just gotten back to work after a debilitating arthritus attack and funny enough when I check what I have done most are drastically under tightened .
Now I might get my "feel" back or I might not but until that day a quick check is a lot easier that a liability claim against me .
#51
R
RevB
.
R
RevB
Sounds like crap engineering...or perhaps just limited space engineering. Each side of my ZT has its own filter but serviced by a common tank. In your case sounds like you'll have to do the air bleed just for the filter location/orientation. Amazon has plenty of suckers....RevB, I do have the reservoir tank on my machine. Its mounted to the frame of the machine. Good idea on the sucker. I'll look for one, though I'd think that would drain out when the filters are removed. "new ones filled with fluid": The trans filter mounts in sideways. It looks like the fluid would just spill out putting them back in full.
.
#52
R
RevB
R
RevB
Well, got off my ass and looked at your rig’s setup. The filters are down on the transaxle/pump unit so it's a pretty monolithic unit. Page 35 and 36 of the owners manual are pretty clear about the procedure and torque values.Just make sure you have an inch/pound scale. Otherwise, I wouldn't be too concerned about the vent plug torque as these are just plugs. I could probably do it by feel but it wouldn't be accurate...proceed as you see fit/comfortable with.RevB, I do have the reservoir tank on my machine. Its mounted to the frame of the machine. Good idea on the sucker. I'll look for one, though I'd think that would drain out when the filters are removed. "new ones filled with fluid": The trans filter mounts in sideways. It looks like the fluid would just spill out putting them back in full.
#53
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Bert, Good luck with the arthritis. I take 15mg Meloxicam . Works very well for me, and my wife too, but everybody is diff. You might ask your doctor about it see what he says.99% of hydro failures happen because the oil and in particular the very fine particulates in the oil were paths between the slots in the valve plate or between the valve plate and the piston chest out of the system.
So to a big extent the more often you change the oil the better as every time you drop the oil the particulates in the oil you toss are removed.
The fact that you never remove 100% is irrevelent .
As for tension wrenches
People who do this eery day of the week end up with a proper feel for proper tightness
People who do this once every 5 years do not
Way back at a show a mod flogging tension wrenches had a stand with 5 bolts into blocks of steel
The public was invited to do them up to the specified tension & any one who got all 5 right won a tension wrench
In 3 days of classic car & motorcycle owners / repairers / restorers lining up to have a go they gave away 8
And no I was not one of the 8 despite trying at least a dozen times over the weekend because I really wanted one of their 6" torque wrenches .
Professions can usually wing it , advising rank ametures to wing it is a bad idea unless you want to replace a lot of broken off breathers .
I have just gotten back to work after a debilitating arthritus attack and funny enough when I check what I have done most are drastically under tightened .
Now I might get my "feel" back or I might not but until that day a quick check is a lot easier that a liability claim against me .
#54
B
bertsmobile1
The heavy bushfire smoke from the 2019 fires caused it to flair up to become chronic to the point of near fatality
Methotrexate alone did not cut it so it was suplimented with Trumps favourite pills , hydroxichloroquin but still chronic every time I came off the steroids
Finally got it under control with pills , diet & exercise then backed off the meds to the point that I am down to 5mg of meth once a fortnight and looking to be off that by the end of the year .
Good luck with yours because every case is different .
I can live with slightly swollen hands & ankles every morning which encourages me to do my exercises daily to get the swelling down .
Seems to be working for now .
Only down side is I am useless work wise till mid morning
B
bertsmobile1
Worked out I have had it for 20 years or moreBert, Good luck with the arthritis. I take 15mg Meloxicam . Works very well for me, and my wife too, but everybody is diff. You might ask your doctor about it see what he says.
The heavy bushfire smoke from the 2019 fires caused it to flair up to become chronic to the point of near fatality
Methotrexate alone did not cut it so it was suplimented with Trumps favourite pills , hydroxichloroquin but still chronic every time I came off the steroids
Finally got it under control with pills , diet & exercise then backed off the meds to the point that I am down to 5mg of meth once a fortnight and looking to be off that by the end of the year .
Good luck with yours because every case is different .
I can live with slightly swollen hands & ankles every morning which encourages me to do my exercises daily to get the swelling down .
Seems to be working for now .
Only down side is I am useless work wise till mid morning
#55
7394
7394
Hang in there Bert.
#56
S
slapshot
S
slapshot
The torque values for the vent plugs (which just have an O ring on them) is 120 INCH POUNDS, not foot pounds. I just did mine.
#57
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
I had no idea brush fire smoke could do that. You must be in Calif.Worked out I have had it for 20 years or more
The heavy bushfire smoke from the 2019 fires caused it to flair up to become chronic to the point of near fatality
Methotrexate alone did not cut it so it was suplimented with Trumps favourite pills , hydroxichloroquin but still chronic every time I came off the steroids
Finally got it under control with pills , diet & exercise then backed off the meds to the point that I am down to 5mg of meth once a fortnight and looking to be off that by the end of the year .
Good luck with yours because every case is different .
I can live with slightly swollen hands & ankles every morning which encourages me to do my exercises daily to get the swelling down .
Seems to be working for now .
Only down side is I am useless work wise till mid morning
#58
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
No I am in Australia
The fire smoke was so thick that I could not see my feet on the steps .
Should have stayed inside but the fire front was only 750 yards away and I had a line of desperate people at the gate with fire pumps that would not start and by this time there were no pumps available from any shop in Sydney .
So one is not going to tell a customer "tough luck about your pump, go home & pray " are you ?
I did 47 Honda carbs in one day and considering the situation they were $ 20 each on the day the fire jumped Warragamba dam and free there in after as all I could do was stand there and instruct .
Basically there was 2000 miles of fire with a couple of unburned patches along the fire front .
Quite frightening as the smoke was so thick you could not see the flames till you were standing in them so every 2 hours it was crank up my pump and wet down the roof then 20 yards around the workshop .
Ash drop was so heavy that it blocked the gutters when I hosed the roof .
The fire smoke was so thick that I could not see my feet on the steps .
Should have stayed inside but the fire front was only 750 yards away and I had a line of desperate people at the gate with fire pumps that would not start and by this time there were no pumps available from any shop in Sydney .
So one is not going to tell a customer "tough luck about your pump, go home & pray " are you ?
I did 47 Honda carbs in one day and considering the situation they were $ 20 each on the day the fire jumped Warragamba dam and free there in after as all I could do was stand there and instruct .
Basically there was 2000 miles of fire with a couple of unburned patches along the fire front .
Quite frightening as the smoke was so thick you could not see the flames till you were standing in them so every 2 hours it was crank up my pump and wet down the roof then 20 yards around the workshop .
Ash drop was so heavy that it blocked the gutters when I hosed the roof .
#59
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
OH NO. I'm so sorry, I had no idea this happened down under. I guess our American news media never told us about this, as I don't recall anything about that. They've been too busy pushing woke ideology. But its possible I have forgotten it; my memory isn't what it once was. I can't imagine that much smoke and ash.No I am in Australia
The fire smoke was so thick that I could not see my feet on the steps .
Should have stayed inside but the fire front was only 750 yards away and I had a line of desperate people at the gate with fire pumps that would not start and by this time there were no pumps available from any shop in Sydney .
So one is not going to tell a customer "tough luck about your pump, go home & pray " are you ?
I did 47 Honda carbs in one day and considering the situation they were $ 20 each on the day the fire jumped Warragamba dam and free there in after as all I could do was stand there and instruct .
Basically there was 2000 miles of fire with a couple of unburned patches along the fire front .
Quite frightening as the smoke was so thick you could not see the flames till you were standing in them so every 2 hours it was crank up my pump and wet down the roof then 20 yards around the workshop .
Ash drop was so heavy that it blocked the gutters when I hosed the roof .
#60
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
This was Dec 2019 through to march 2020
Not many Aust stories make it to USA news but Cal did send over 300 volunteers so it may have .
Not many Aust stories make it to USA news but Cal did send over 300 volunteers so it may have .
#61
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Bert, I ran a search for this question on here but didn't find what I'm looking for. Instead of starting a whole new thread I thought I'd ask you (or whoever else wants to comment). I was going to clean my cooling fins (Kawasaki FR691V 23hp) as I've never done that in 10 years. Just looking at the small part of the fins I can see they aren't very dirty, maybe a very thin bit of dust is all I can see, and very thin at that. So, I read the manual and it says loosen 3 bolts. I did. The shroud won't budge. There's a "CAUTION" about bending the regulator side no more than 70 degrees. I have no idea what the regulator side is, and besides, bending that plastic up to 70 degrees seems way more than I feel comfortable with. I thought that plastic shroud would just lift right off easily, but nope, it doesn't budge. I'm thinking maybe since I don't see but only a very thin bit of dust to just spray up in there with some Dawn and water, let it sit a bit, then rinse it out with a garden hose. Any ideas? I won't do anything till I hear some comment.This was Dec 2019 through to march 2020
Not many Aust stories make it to USA news but Cal did send over 300 volunteers so it may have .
#62
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The regulator is the thing with 3 wires attached to it
There are 6 bolts from memory on the blower housing 3 on each side
Usually they all have to come right out
And some times the fuel pump also has to come off
Check under the air filter as some have a screw under there as well.
Depending upon which exact variation of the FR691V you have some have a finger guard that has to be removed over the flywheel while on others it is under the housing so stays in place.
There are 6 bolts from memory on the blower housing 3 on each side
Usually they all have to come right out
And some times the fuel pump also has to come off
Check under the air filter as some have a screw under there as well.
Depending upon which exact variation of the FR691V you have some have a finger guard that has to be removed over the flywheel while on others it is under the housing so stays in place.
#63
7394
7394
Kawasaki FR691V 23hp
1st: remove plastic center cover on blower housing, 3 plastic push pins. (carefully).
2nd: remove the metal (swiss cheese looking) center air intake of blower housing. 3 cap screws, & pay attention as there are shims under it usually.
Then lift Air filter lid & remove air filter & put clean rag in intake to be careful..
3rd: ONLY loosen the bolts enough around the housing base. Since the housing holes are slotted, so full removal of bolts is not necessary. Remove the 2 or 3 screws on the electric fuel pump, on Left side standing behind mower. Just leave it there, then. Then carefully pull up on blower housing, paying attention to everything. Like by the dip stick.
I use a clothes dryer vent brush to rub between the cylinder fins. It does great & has length to go all the way. I do NOT use water on the engine, you will see the coils & wiring so that's why for me.
Just take yer time. Once ya do it, you will see how simple it is. I do mine at end of each mow season.
Remember even a layer of dust can cause additional engine heat.
1st: remove plastic center cover on blower housing, 3 plastic push pins. (carefully).
2nd: remove the metal (swiss cheese looking) center air intake of blower housing. 3 cap screws, & pay attention as there are shims under it usually.
Then lift Air filter lid & remove air filter & put clean rag in intake to be careful..
3rd: ONLY loosen the bolts enough around the housing base. Since the housing holes are slotted, so full removal of bolts is not necessary. Remove the 2 or 3 screws on the electric fuel pump, on Left side standing behind mower. Just leave it there, then. Then carefully pull up on blower housing, paying attention to everything. Like by the dip stick.
I use a clothes dryer vent brush to rub between the cylinder fins. It does great & has length to go all the way. I do NOT use water on the engine, you will see the coils & wiring so that's why for me.
Just take yer time. Once ya do it, you will see how simple it is. I do mine at end of each mow season.
Remember even a layer of dust can cause additional engine heat.
#64
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Thanks, I didn't know what the regulator was, now I do. Anyway, its already bolted back down now. Here's what I did. After I got the "screen" removed off the top of the fan I cleaned the fan off even though it had only a very minor amount of dust. Then I realized there was two small square holes in the air filter compartment that allowed me to see a portion of the engine cooling fins that wasn't visible from the outside. I'd seen videos showing how clogged the fins could be with grass and gunk. Looking through that small square hole with a flashlight (or torch as the British say) I could see no clogging at all. So, seeing none there and none in the fins visible from outside I just tightened the bolts all down and put the air filter back on. I tapped the air filter against a tree and got some dust out of it, which is always the case, and cleaned the foam pre-filter. So, I didn't do any clean the cooling fins at all since I didn't see anything that needed cleaning. I was a little surprised to see no gunk at all in those fins, being the mower is 10 years old; but thats what I did.The regulator is the thing with 3 wires attached to it
There are 6 bolts from memory on the blower housing 3 on each side
Usually they all have to come right out
And some times the fuel pump also has to come off
Check under the air filter as some have a screw under there as well.
Depending upon which exact variation of the FR691V you have some have a finger guard that has to be removed over the flywheel while on others it is under the housing so stays in place.
#65
7394
7394
After mowing, I always use my leaf blower on my Z, & do blow down thru those square holes you mentioned as well as the center.
And I still remove the housing end of mow seasons.. It stays pretty clean.
And I still remove the housing end of mow seasons.. It stays pretty clean.
#66
7394
or similar.
7394
Additionally, doesn't hurt to coat the Hydro filter guard bolts w/anti-seizeFilter guard screws tighten to only 65 INCH lbs, or 5.4 ft lbs ONLY.
or similar.
#68
7394
7394
I have heard of the steel bolts into the aluminum can gauld, & break off being removed.
#69
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
7394, I did not know that. Thanks again. Hope that doesn't happen. I will use the anti sieze. I've put off doing this job till winter or early spring just in case I have an issue and have to take the mower in. Right now I have other issues (home related) to deal with.I have heard of the steel bolts into the aluminum can gauld, & break off being removed.
#70
StarTech
StarTech
Apparently you haven't worked many mowers yet. Deck spindles are the worst at seizing. Muffler screw seizing the cylinder heads, transaxle screw seizing, even rocker cover screws on Kohler like to seize. Currently I got both 5 speed transaxle with screw broken and Kohler CV20 with a rocker cover screw broken off. I digging out the carbide bit to remove the broken pieces. The Kohler will get resized to 7mm and the Splicer will get heli-coiled.I have heard of the steel bolts into the aluminum can gauld, & break off being removed.
#71
7394
7394
Well my main thing is wrenching Harleys.. & agree about deck spindles.Apparently you haven't worked many mowers yet. Deck spindles are the worst at seizing.
#72
J
jcworks
We also discussed me changing hydro oil. I believe its a ZT2800. I decided to put off doing that till winter in case something went wrong the mowing season would be over and (God forbid) I had to take it to a dealer. So, I'm at that point now. The meter shows 270 hours on the machine.
I've got a couple of questions for you:
(1) I watched the video on the HG website. It shows pumping the oil in with a hand held pump that inserts in the oil can and through a new black special oil filler attachment that screws in to the trans and has an overflow spout. However, my manual says pour the oil in the expansion tank till it comes out one of the unscrewed vents. Then put that vent plug back in and keep pouring till it comes out the 2nd one. I'm not sure which way to do it -- I suppose do it as my manual says do.
(2) Should I use only Hydro-Gear oil, or Hyper Oil the manual mentions? The manual did mention I could also use 20w50 motor oil. I suppose like Castrol conventional 20w50? Conventional oil is getting harder to find, I'm wondering if a 20w50 synthetic blend or full syn will work? I assume the filter should be changed too? Will a quality filter [that fits] from an auto parts store work? There are Hydro-Gear oil change kits out there online. Wow, they're high.....$100 and up!. I haven't priced it with HG; I imagine its high too. Bottom line on question (2) is would a filter from auto store (NAPA) work? And regular 20w50 (or synthetic blend or full synthetic) be ok in your opinion? Or do you think I should just pay the price and get the kit from Hydro-Gear....or whomever?
J
jcworks
Hi bert. Last summer, you may remember you and I had a lengthy discussion about the Hydro-Gear bypass valve not working properly on my 2013 Toro MX5060. Between you and I and the Hydo-Gear rep on the phone we got that resolved, if you remember. It was simple.change the oil
Not a big job to do
Instructions are on the Hydro gear web page
I like to do them then leave the mower for a couple of days before I purge the air out of the system .
Only real trick is to run the engine as slow as possible and make sure the wheels are jacked up so there is no load on the hydro .
We also discussed me changing hydro oil. I believe its a ZT2800. I decided to put off doing that till winter in case something went wrong the mowing season would be over and (God forbid) I had to take it to a dealer. So, I'm at that point now. The meter shows 270 hours on the machine.
I've got a couple of questions for you:
(1) I watched the video on the HG website. It shows pumping the oil in with a hand held pump that inserts in the oil can and through a new black special oil filler attachment that screws in to the trans and has an overflow spout. However, my manual says pour the oil in the expansion tank till it comes out one of the unscrewed vents. Then put that vent plug back in and keep pouring till it comes out the 2nd one. I'm not sure which way to do it -- I suppose do it as my manual says do.
(2) Should I use only Hydro-Gear oil, or Hyper Oil the manual mentions? The manual did mention I could also use 20w50 motor oil. I suppose like Castrol conventional 20w50? Conventional oil is getting harder to find, I'm wondering if a 20w50 synthetic blend or full syn will work? I assume the filter should be changed too? Will a quality filter [that fits] from an auto parts store work? There are Hydro-Gear oil change kits out there online. Wow, they're high.....$100 and up!. I haven't priced it with HG; I imagine its high too. Bottom line on question (2) is would a filter from auto store (NAPA) work? And regular 20w50 (or synthetic blend or full synthetic) be ok in your opinion? Or do you think I should just pay the price and get the kit from Hydro-Gear....or whomever?
#73
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Any 20w50 oil your choose will be find. If you have an expansion tank that you can pour oil into that is the best option as opposed to using the pump which is slow. Make sure to use either hydrogear filters or a direct crossover filter.
#74
7394
7394
Hydro-Gear Oil filters, or equal (as stated) as they are Full flow.
#75
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Thanks for the input ILENGINE. I found HG filters near me . I'll use 20w50 Castrol or some other quality oil.Any 20w50 oil your choose will be find. If you have an expansion tank that you can pour oil into that is the best option as opposed to using the pump which is slow. Make sure to use either hydrogear filters or a direct crossover filter.
#76
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Thanks Ski. I'm just getting around to begin this; I decided to do it in winter after the mowing season. This video is of course for a Murray but its basically about the same. I think draining and refilling the trans won't be an issue for me. The purging will be the show and tell time for me; but the manual pretty much is straightforward, and others on here have given helpful input. My machine has only one reservoir, it seems some machines have two from what I can tell. The manual says to refill through the reservoir til oil comes out one vent hole, then insert that plug and keep filling through the reservoir till it comes out the other vent hole. Seems simple enough.Hi, just saw your post. The link below was posted to Murray Forum. It might help you as it did me. Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Ski
#77
J
jcworks
J
jcworks
Yes, I am learning that is the case. And, I'm learning that two Toro dealerships do not really seem to want to do this. Why is anyone's guess. My guess is they want it to tear up to sell another machine or they don't feel competent doing this.the air purging works over a 1 hr or so period so the air bubbles can work themselves up the line to the reservior. fill it to the required fill level and go mowing and carry some extra oil to top it off as the machine expels the air from the transmission.
changing the fluid is absolutely neccesary and critical to the performance of your transmissions. Ive dropped the oil and replaced and seen significant power increases from just changing the fluid. they are delicate expensive components to be looked after just as you would your engine
#78
2
2muchgrass2mow
2
2muchgrass2mow
I am 73 and have had serious arthritic/osteoporotic issues beginning in my early 60's, and now have a titanium shoulder, two knuckles and a pinky joint replaced with silicon and have carpal tunnel and Dupyten's contracture in both hands. I know what you're going through. Never took methotrexate, nor would I even consider hydroxy-c, but I have been taking Celecoxib (Celebrex) for probably 25 years. Godsend! I would be nearly immobile without it. Long ago tried other NSAIDS like meloxicam, but they trashed my stomach. Currently I take 200mg. of Celebrex morning and night. Talk to you Doc about it. It's been a wonder drug for me - even though I still regularly have Triamcinolone injections in both hands and left wrist about every 4 mo. Still, I'm able to do my own mowing and service work on my JD X-370, but I cannot lift over 40 # (shoulder) and have trouble with grip strength. Power steering is also a Godsend! Look into the Celebrex, but see Doc first! Good luck!Worked out I have had it for 20 years or more
The heavy bushfire smoke from the 2019 fires caused it to flair up to become chronic to the point of near fatality
Methotrexate alone did not cut it so it was suplimented with Trumps favourite pills , hydroxichloroquin but still chronic every time I came off the steroids
Finally got it under control with pills , diet & exercise then backed off the meds to the point that I am down to 5mg of meth once a fortnight and looking to be off that by the end of the year .
Good luck with yours because every case is different .
I can live with slightly swollen hands & ankles every morning which encourages me to do my exercises daily to get the swelling down .
Seems to be working for now .
Only down side is I am useless work wise till mid morning
#79
shurguywutt
I did my transaxles on my Toro a few weeks ago. It has Hydrogear ZT-2100s on it and they are sealed without even a drain plug (new technology?
). I had to suction the oil out through the fill port and only got about 0.75 QT out of each axle (1.5 QT fill). The oil was pretty dark with a bit under 100 hrs on the unit.
shurguywutt
Wow, it is amazing how these old machines run forever with little maintenance; old machines were made so much better. My father had an old Murray lawn tractor he got from Sears in the 80s-90s, he never did any maintenance to it, I never even remember him changing the oil, and that thing just ran. Sometimes I wonder if it is still in service somewhere lol.Hi, just saw your post. The link below was posted to Murray Forum. It might help you as it did me. Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Ski
I did my transaxles on my Toro a few weeks ago. It has Hydrogear ZT-2100s on it and they are sealed without even a drain plug (new technology?
). I had to suction the oil out through the fill port and only got about 0.75 QT out of each axle (1.5 QT fill). The oil was pretty dark with a bit under 100 hrs on the unit.