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Champion XC12YC - NGK Equivalent

#1

shurguywutt

shurguywutt

Good evening. I have a 34" Toro Timecutter 75734 with a Kohler 7000 22HP (KT725-3097).

The manual specs Champion XC12YC plugs but after researching some NGK documents, I found the NGK BKR5E is an equivalent.

Anyone have experience running NGK's in the Kohler? Thanks!


#2

B

bertsmobile1

I Now keep XC12YC's in stock because I have tried just about every plug that is supposed to be equivalent to them
None seemed to work properly
The BKR5E is the equivalent to the RC12YC and will interchange with them faultlessly
However not for the XC
Now what the actual difference between the XC & RC is I have been unable to find out but even the RC will not substitute for the RC's in the 7000 series Kohlers .


#3

shurguywutt

shurguywutt

Man that is annoying - especially since the XCs are more expensive and I think NGK makes better plugs overall. But this is from an automotive perspective. Thanks for the input.


#4

B

bertsmobile1

Even more so as my wholesalers do not stock them so I have to pay full retail


#5

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I have replaced the xc12yc plugs with rc12yc plugs with no issue. As far as i can tell the xc plugs are designed for a longer change interval because the electrodes and a different alloy. I have not seen a difference in performance.


#6

StarTech

StarTech

It probably the amount or type resistance resistance.
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#7

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Yeah, best i can research the center electrode has different inductance and resistance due to the alloy used and is harder so it lasts longer but the still will foul the same as the RC plugs. I have swapped in the RC12YC plugs in a couple dozen engines and haven't seen any difference. The $2 plugs work as good as the $5 plugs.


#8

shurguywutt

shurguywutt

I was browsing around and noticed the Kohler equivalent Stens maintenance kit for my model uses the RC12YCs and not XCs


#9

M

MParr

BKR5E
No experience yet. I have two waiting to go in my Gravely Pro Turn 260 (Kohler ZT740).
I really wanted the Champion XC12YC but, the NGK was all the Gravely dealer had.
I don’t see why they wouldn’t perform as well as the Champion plugs.


#10

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Not sure how true it is but "I read on the internet" that the xc plugs were designed to be a "greener" plug as they are designed to last something like 3 to 4 times longer before needing changed due to eroded electrodes. Mower ignitions are so low energy i rarely change a plug because it is worn out from eroded electrodes. Usually from fouling or just annual maintenance. I really see no advantage to the XC plugs.


#11

I

ILENGINE

Hammermechanicman said:
Not sure how true it is but "I read on the internet" that the xc plugs were designed to be a "greener" plug as they are designed to last something like 3 to 4 times longer before needing changed due to eroded electrodes. Mower ignitions are so low energy i rarely change a plug because it is worn out from eroded electrodes. Usually from fouling or just annual maintenance. I really see no advantage to the XC plugs.
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Never used a XC Always replaced with the RC12YC and the later BKR5E/CS6 since having multiple failures of Champion plugs I avoid them if all possible. The XC plug was discussed years ago at one of my engine update schools and since nobody stocked the XC plugs at that time were told to just use the RC plugs.


#12

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

When champion moved production to south America they had problems with plugs arcing intrernally but that was resolved years ago. I put in over a hundred champion plugs a year in mowers without any issues. But i still like NGK BPMR7A in chainsaws.


#13

I

ILENGINE

Hammermechanicman said:
When champion moved production to south America they had problems with plugs arcing intrernally but that was resolved years ago. I put in over a hundred champion plugs a year in mowers without any issues. But i still like NGK BPMR7A in chainsaws.
Click to expand...
I ;purchased 6 Champion plugs this year because my normal NGK was out of stock at all my suppliers. All 6 plugs failed with an hour of installation.


#14

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

ILENGINE said:
I ;purchased 6 Champion plugs this year because my normal NGK was out of stock at all my suppliers. All 6 plugs failed with an hour of installation.
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Wow, i buy my plugs in shop packs from stens and i have installed a few hundred over the last few years and none have failed. Is it possible you got counterfit plugs? Many thousands of new engines come out every year with champ plugs in them that don't fail. Briggs has their own part number for plugs and they are champ brand. I have had a couple new NGK plugs fail in short time in a couple honda engines which i thought was odd and they were from stens also.


#15

I

ILENGINE

Hammermechanicman said:
Wow, i buy my plugs in shop packs from stens and i have installed a few hundred over the last few years and none have failed. Is it possible you got counterfit plugs? Many thousands of new engines come out every year with champ plugs in them that don't fail. Briggs has their own part number for plugs and they are champ brand. I have had a couple new NGK plugs fail in short time in a couple honda engines which i thought was odd and they were from stens also.
Click to expand...
This was from a OEM parts supplier that didn't have the BPR4ES in stock and auto subbed to the Champion equivalent. There was period a few years back that briggs was using that special .020 gap plug that I was changing one under warranty about every week. That plug would quit right in the middle of somebody mowing their yard, and if you subbed to a .030 gap plug it would cause a misfire.

My dealings with Champion have been less than stellar over the years. Lost a shop pack of J19LM that would fail within minutes of installation. The RN14YC equivalent to the BPR4ES plugs that wouldn't restart hot, and the 4 D21 plugs I had to order for another project I am working on that had the plug gaps slammed shut like that had been dropped on their noses before boxing because the boxes were undamaged.

Have had a few BPMR7A go bad in chainsaws within a few minutes of running but that was maybe 2 or three out of a couple hundred of that plug.


#16

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

ILENGINE said:
This was from a OEM parts supplier that didn't have the BPR4ES in stock and auto subbed to the Champion equivalent. There was period a few years back that briggs was using that special .020 gap plug that I was changing one under warranty about every week. That plug would quit right in the middle of somebody mowing their yard, and if you subbed to a .030 gap plug it would cause a misfire.

My dealings with Champion have been less than stellar over the years. Lost a shop pack of J19LM that would fail within minutes of installation. The RN14YC equivalent to the BPR4ES plugs that wouldn't restart hot, and the 4 D21 plugs I had to order for another project I am working on that had the plug gaps slammed shut like that had been dropped on their noses before boxing because the boxes were undamaged.

Have had a few BPMR7A go bad in chainsaws within a few minutes of running but that was maybe 2 or three out of a couple hundred of that plug.
Click to expand...
I quit using champions. I had 3 fail last year.
I'm mainly using NGK or Autolite plugs now.


#17

I

ILENGINE

Scrubcadet10 said:
I quit using champions. I had 3 fail last year.
I'm mainly using NGK or Autolite plugs now.
Click to expand...
Started doing research after the J19LM case of plugs failed and found a reference in a Champion plug application catalog that stated that a 25% misfire rate was acceptable. And don't ask for the reference because that catalog is long gone, and I haven't been able to find that reference since.

Maybe that is the reason that a lot of vehicles have multiple plugs per cylinder.


#18

B

bertsmobile1

Interesting
It might be a fuel difference but the 2 Titans I service will not run on anything other than the XC's
They both start fine cold & run fine for a short while then they start to miss and it is a lean-over advance miss
The engines then overheat.
I tried to increase the gap to slow the timing down a poofteenth and if the gap is big enough to run properly, then it is almost impossible to start
Both of them ran perfect on the XC's so it is a no brainer for me , use the dearer plugs ,


#19

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

ILENGINE said:
Started doing research after the J19LM case of plugs failed and found a reference in a Champion plug application catalog that stated that a 25% misfire rate was acceptable. And don't ask for the reference because that catalog is long gone, and I haven't been able to find that reference since.

Maybe that is the reason that a lot of vehicles have multiple plugs per cylinder.
Click to expand...
Had 2 RC12YC fails....... One would Run for 10 minutes, then start backfiring and blowing some black smoke out of the exhaust. Put a NGK plug in it and it was fine. The other ran for 20 minutes than quit, and wouldn't spark.
the third was a J19LM that was bad right out of the box apparently.


#20

B

bertsmobile1

Back in my college days I worked in a Champion plug factory
That factory made every brand of plug that was currently available except Bosch.
Each & every plug got tested and graded as they came off the end of one of the machines
In fact the tester did about a dozen tests .
So I always doubt the "bad out of box" stories
However a plug can go bad in an engine from 1 single bad engine cycle
Once a spark has tacked down the sides of a modern plug that does not have the lead based glaze on the insulator there is nothing that can be done but to replace it.
While plugs can in theory be damaged in transit, that damage ( rust , corrosion or mechanical damage ) should be evident on both the plug & the box


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