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RECENT THREAD: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/small...ccasionally-slows-shakes-smokes-start-up.html

So following the owner's manual, the oil was drained. Used AMSoil 10-30 synthetic to fill the tank. The problem is that the oil level is difficult to detect.

1. The oil is clear so the line is difficult to visualize on the stick, and

2. Oil seems to coat most of the stick.

Maybe 0.4 liter was added.

Ran the engine for a few minutes, then waited ten minutes and still the oil level on the stick was no clear. Emptied some oil out, and still cannot determine the level.

QUESTION: Can the oil reservoir actually be too full, and if so, will it actually cause damage ?

Thank you.

MowerMark said:

RECENT THREAD: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/small...ccasionally-slows-shakes-smokes-start-up.html

So following the owner's manual, the oil was drained. Used AMSoil 10-30 synthetic to fill the tank. The problem is that the oil level is difficult to detect.

1. The oil is clear so the line is difficult to visualize on the stick, and

2. Oil seems to coat most of the stick.

Maybe 0.4 liter was added.

Ran the engine for a few minutes, then waited ten minutes and still the oil level on the stick was no clear. Emptied some oil out, and still cannot determine the level.

QUESTION: Can the oil reservoir actually be too full, and if so, will it actually cause damage ?

Thank you.

Click to expand...

First of all you didn't follow the manual because it doesn't say fill the crankcase with Amsoil and Imo that's your problem. A regular SAE 10w30 detergent category SJ or later motor oil is sufficient. If the oil is covering the stick you have way overfilled the mower. you have approximately 3/4 of an inch on the very end of the dipstick that shows the lower and upper limit for your oil and it shouldn't be any higher than that 3/4 inch. The oil capacity for that mower is only like maybe 1/2 quart. and yes if you overfill the machine it will damage the mower definitely.

MowerMark said:

QUESTION: Can the oil reservoir actually be too full, and if so, will it actually cause damage ?

Thank you.

Click to expand...

Yes, overfilling the crankcase can possibly result in oil getting into the air cleaner / filter area. This happens instantly, for example, if you incorrectly tip the mower right-side wheels UP. There's a breather tube than connects the crankcase area to the air filter housing (emissions control) and oil will drain out of the crankcase and into the air cleaner housing.

Now, for reading the dipstck, here's a detailed procedure:

1. Best to check the oil level when the engine is cold; all the oil will have drained into the crankcase and provide the most accurate measurement.
2. Park the mower on a flat, level surface.
3. Get a flashlight...remove dipstick, wipe clean/dry, re-insert into filler hole, but do NOT screw-in/tighten.
4. Look for a "wet spot" on the very tip of the dipstick; the flashlight should reflect off the oil but not the dull/dry plastic of the dipstick shaft (shown in yellow).
5. The very tip of the dipstick has a crosshatch (shown in green) pattern to help create a contrast the oil so it can be visualized easier.
6. Oil level is "good" when there is clearly oil in the crosshatch (green) area.
7. There may be a streak or two of oil visible in the upper (yellow) part of the stick, but it should not be completely wet with oil; this would indicate an overfill situation.



When changing the oil, do it when the engine is warm, so it flows out faster and more completely.
After a complete drain, the engine the absolute maximum refill amount is 0.58 quart (about 550cc). Because not all the oil will drain when changing, you will usually be able to fill with no more than 12-13.5 ounces (350~400 cc).

I don't know if this is true for small engines but if you overfill a car/truck engine you can blow seals. What Robert described above is bad enough. It's a minor PITA to have to get a new air filter and clean possibly clean the carb and muffler and combustion chamber of a bunch of oil. Best not to overfill and have to do all that even tho it isn't catastrophic. Replacing oil seals is def a pain tho not a catastrophe.

Synthetic oil. Mower underside cleaning. Bag cleaning. Spark plug changing.

robert@honda said:

Yes, overfilling the crankcase can possibly result in oil getting into the air cleaner / filter area. This happens instantly, for example, if you incorrectly tip the mower right-side wheels UP. There's a breather tube than connects the crankcase area to the air filter housing (emissions control) and oil will drain out of the crankcase and into the air cleaner housing.

Now, for reading the dipstck, here's a detailed procedure:

1. Best to check the oil level when the engine is cold; all the oil will have drained into the crankcase and provide the most accurate measurement.
2. Park the mower on a flat, level surface.
3. Get a flashlight...remove dipstick, wipe clean/dry, re-insert into filler hole, but do NOT screw-in/tighten.
4. Look for a "wet spot" on the very tip of the dipstick; the flashlight should reflect off the oil but not the dull/dry plastic of the dipstick shaft (shown in yellow).
5. The very tip of the dipstick has a crosshatch (shown in green) pattern to help create a contrast the oil so it can be visualized easier.
6. Oil level is "good" when there is clearly oil in the crosshatch (green) area.
7. There may be a streak or two of oil visible in the upper (yellow) part of the stick, but it should not be completely wet with oil; this would indicate an overfill situation.

When changing the oil, do it when the engine is warm, so it flows out faster and more completely.
After a complete drain, the engine the absolute maximum refill amount is 0.58 quart (about 550cc). Because not all the oil will drain when changing, you will usually be able to fill with no more than 12-13.5 ounces (350~400 cc).

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Robert of Honda:

Once again you come through with excellent, on point, detailed, supremely helpful information. All is now fine, and waiting overnight was key. When inserting the dipstick without screwing it in, oil overs 15% of the tip. If the dipstick is screwed in and then unscrewed, oil covers 90% of the cross-hatch area. I don't recall reading to NOT screw in the dipstick to measure the oil level. Intuitively one thinks that the dipstick should be screwed in to check the level since a car engine dipstick is inserted all the way.

As for using AMSoil, I was told by two authorized Honda dealers and the AMSoil Corporation that AMSoil can be used after a year of using Honda's motor oil so that something gets "set"… maybe seals or rings. Forgot. Anyway, the motor engine experts in my life praise AMSoil for all motors after a standard oil break-in.

Now, the spark plug has not been changed since this mower was born.

1. Should I change the plug even though the motor runs fine ?

2. I have a new Honda replacement BPR5ES (08981-999-010). Is this the proper plug ?

3. Is it pre-gapped from the Genuine Parts packaging ? I don't have a gapping tool.


CUTTING GRASS: Yesterday I used a power washer (1500 psi) and cleaning the bag and the mower underside. Will see if this allows better grass cutting. This is the first time cleaning the bag? I simply forgot this is part of maintenance since the bag was distending with use and did collect the clippings. Maybe now with better suction the "mohawking" effect described earlier will disappear. Yes, the mower starts up fine this morning.

Ric said:

First of all you didn't follow the manual because it doesn't say fill the crankcase with Amsoil and Imo that's your problem. A regular SAE 10w30 detergent category SJ or later motor oil is sufficient. If the oil is covering the stick you have way overfilled the mower. you have approximately 3/4 of an inch on the very end of the dipstick that shows the lower and upper limit for your oil and it shouldn't be any higher than that 3/4 inch. The oil capacity for that mower is only like maybe 1/2 quart. and yes if you overfill the machine it will damage the mower definitely.

Click to expand...

Wow! Seems you misunderstood my post and you haven't read my answer above to Robert of Honda and you haven't read prior posts which indicate that:

1. I didn't overfill. The stick appeared to show overfilling because I did not let it sit overnight. Waiting overnight and NOT screwing in the dipstick disclosed the motor oil reservoir was filled to the proper capacity, and

2. AMSoil Synthetic (I'm not a dealer in AMSoil, not an investor or employee, and I don't sell it) is perfectly acceptable to use in Honda small engines. I used a little under 0.4 liter. Of course AMSoil feels it's superior to all other oils.

Here's a table of AMSoil for small engines, and I used the 10-30 weight ASE: http://www.amsoil.com/AmsoilLookups/lookups/GroupSEL.aspx?group=2

If you honestly think this oil is "bad" or not as good as Honda, please advise and explain why you think so.

I USED THIS OIL IN MY MOWER: http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...troke-10w-30-sae-30-small-engine-oil/?Group=9

Re: Synthetic oil. Mower underside cleaning. Bag cleaning. Spark plug changing.

MowerMark said:

1. Should I change the plug even though the motor runs fine ?

Click to expand...

I'd replace it. I recall the mower is four years old, and the maintenance schedule says to replace the plug every 150 hours or two years.

MowerMark said:

2. I have a new Honda replacement BPR5ES (08981-999-010). Is this the proper plug ?

Click to expand...

Yes.

MowerMark said:

3. Is it pre-gapped from the Genuine Parts packaging ? I don't have a gapping tool.

Click to expand...

No, but probably quite close.
You can pick up a gap tool at any auto parts store; I've seen them up by the cash registers at AutoZone for $0.99. The gap should be set to 0.7~0.8mm (0.028~0.031 inch)

Re: Synthetic oil. Spark plug changing.

Thank you again, Robert. Please confirm that the AMSoil Synthetic used as above is acceptable in this mower. And thank you again for the key of waiting overnight to check the oil level. So much oil coats the filler tube that only by waiting overnight can the level be detected.

Re: Synthetic oil. Spark plug changing.

MowerMark said:

Please confirm that the AMSoil Synthetic used as above is acceptable in this mower.

Click to expand...

Yes, any 4-stroke automotive engine oil (petroleum or synthetic) is acceptable as long as it is marked "SAE 10W-30." FYI, I invariably have a number of fans/customers unable to pick, so I mention that Honda uses a petroleum-based oil when the engine is undergoing EPA emissions testing and certification.

MowerMark said:

And thank you again...

Click to expand...

You are welcome; glad to be able to help out .

Re: Synthetic oil. Spark plug changing.

robert@honda said:

Yes, any 4-stroke automotive engine oil (petroleum or synthetic) is acceptable as long as it is marked "SAE 10W-30." FYI, I invariably have a number of fans/customers unable to pick, so I mention that Honda uses a petroleum-based oil when the engine is undergoing EPA emissions testing and certification.


You are welcome; glad to be able to help out .

Click to expand...

Pardon my ignorance, but is synthetic not even part petroleum based ? Maybe the EPA emissions test would be better with synthetics.

I immediately went out to get the spark plug gauge for $1.00 . The gap was at 0.30 right out of the package. I have not used a gap tool before, and the only small issue is that the electrode lateral edges were at 0.28 and 0.30, so it is assumed that one chooses the higher number on this gauge wheel, right ?

Re: Synthetic oil. Spark plug changing.

MowerMark said:

Pardon my ignorance, but is synthetic not even part petroleum based ?

Click to expand...

Not sure about that. I know there are blended oils, which contain both synthetic and petroleum formulas.

MowerMark said:

Maybe the EPA emissions test would be better with synthetics.

Click to expand...

The EPA test is strictly for emissions levels. I would be surprised if the type of oil (synthetic or petroleum) would have any significant impact on the emissions levels.

MowerMark said:

The gap was at 0.30 right out of the package. I have not used a gap tool before, and the only small issue is that the electrode lateral edges were at 0.28 and 0.30, so it is assumed that one chooses the higher number on this gauge wheel, right ?

Click to expand...

That should be fine; the design of the spark plug tip and the geometry of the gap adjustment is inherently imprecise, but get the smallest gap to measure within spec and it will be just fine in this lawn mower engine application.

Re: Synthetic oil. Spark plug changing.

MowerMark said:

Pardon my ignorance, but is synthetic not even part petroleum based ? Maybe the EPA emissions test would be better with synthetics.

I immediately went out to get the spark plug gauge for $1.00 . The gap was at 0.30 right out of the package. I have not used a gap tool before, and the only small issue is that the electrode lateral edges were at 0.28 and 0.30, so it is assumed that one chooses the higher number on this gauge wheel, right ?

Click to expand...

The comment I made about not following the manual and using amsoil is because IMO you're wasting money using the artificial stuff, it just not needed and if it was the manual would say so. If you were someone who mowed lawns daily for a living and used and ran your mower 5 or 6 hrs a day like I do maybe but you as a homeowner using your mower to mow your lawn once a week and may put a total of maybe 20 hrs a year on a mower it's over kill.

Your manual tells you the recommended oil to use an SAE 10w30 SJ or later for general use and it says when changing oil fill with the recommended oil and don't overfill and let it stand for a couple of minutes to let the oil settle then measure the level let it sit overnight, you don't have to do. People have different opinions on oil and I prefer the petroleum based. I just figure if the synthetic isn't good enough to break my engine in properly then it isn't good enough to run full time but you can do what you like doesn't make any difference to me.

Well shit. Installed brand new GXV160 Engine on 2000 Snapper. Added oil, approx 12 ounces, and dipstick showed full, as I screwed the dipstick in to ck the oil. Cut my grass. Now, reading this I see you are not supposed to screw the dipstick in when checking, which now allows another 7-8 ounces to go in. So brand new engine, cut grass first time with low oil! Just my luck.