Export thread

Cali finally dropped the hammer.
So does this stop people from ordering gas powered equip from outside cali???

Hope the Fire Departments are exempt...

They can ban the sale of them but for the time being not the use
So I could see good money in importing used petrol powered tools because it would be impossible to prove whaer they were originally bought from, provided they were a Cal compliant model in the first place.
Obviously all that pot smoking & sunshine has finally caused brains to evolve into muck

So are the electric company non polluters themselves? And how are they going handle the bad batteries, just stick them in landfills? Or they are doing like they are here where they converting a 1100+ acres of prime farm land to solar farms using weed killers polluting our ground water. But what the hey we don't need food, water, and clothing any more.

StarTech said:

So are the electric company non polluters themselves? And how are they going handle the bad batteries, just stick them in landfills? Or they are doing like they are here where they converting a 1100+ acres of prime farm land to solar farms using weed killers polluting our ground water. But what the hey we don't need food, water, and clothing any more.

Click to expand...

They have a problem even keeping the power flowing in California. I would suggest sheep or goats but, they will ban them based on farting.

They can strap masks on both ends like they are trying to do to cows but what to do with the gas afterwards. It going to take a lot perfume to make it smell nice but in the cities who can tell what stinks the worst.

You get the government you vote for. Obvioussly the voters in california want this. I have no sympathy for California. If their taxes to go to 100% so be it. Everyone is entitled to their politics and to vote for who they want. If your candidate does stupid stuff don't complain to me.

That sorta like those trying to blame our presidents for all the problems when he has 538 bosses in Congress that can't agree on a single thing most days. Heck they cant even get a budget done until the last minute and even then they are bickering over the details and block passage of the bills. Its something that must done every year. Most of them are just really old farts that simply don't care about us anymore except when comes to getting elected. Actually it looks like our country is coming to a stand still because of all the bickering.

You have heard of the term "A rolling stone gathers no moss." Well the Washington and State politicians are completely cover in moss lately. They are more worry whose a** to kiss then getting something beneficial done.

StarTech said:

That sorta like those trying to blame our presidents for all the problems when he has 538 bosses in Congress that can't agree on a single thing most days. Heck they cant even get a budget done until the last minute and even then they are bickering over the details and block passage of the bills. Its something that must done every year. Most of them are just really old farts that simply don't care about us anymore except when comes to getting elected. Actually it looks like our country is coming to a stand still because of all the bickering.

You have heard of the term "A rolling stone gathers no moss." Well the Washington and State politicians are completely cover in moss lately. They are more worry whose a** to kiss then getting something beneficial done.

Click to expand...

Those Congressmen aren’t worried about any of their constituents. They are more interested in passing bills to benefit special interest groups and skimming a little off in the process.

MParr said:

Those Congressmen aren’t worried about any of their constituents. They are more interested in passing bills to benefit special interest groups and skimming a little off in the process.

Click to expand...

You got it....

Wouldn’t it be great if California sought independence and became a sovereign nation?

The same self righteous ass hats that that continually vote in the idiots are the ones that drive their Hummers to the Sierra club meetings. To a certain extent we are all hypocrites but commiefornia has taken it to a whole new level. Nice place to visit but would never live there. Same for new york state. Maybe we can make California Oregon and Washington the Union of Leftmerica Socialist Republic. That would be an interesting experiment.

Hammermechanicman said:

The same self righteous ass hats that that continually vote in the idiots are the ones that drive their Hummers to the Sierra club meetings. To a certain extent we are all hypocrites but commiefornia has taken it to a whole new level. Nice place to visit but would never live there. Same for new york state. Maybe we can make California Oregon and Washington the Union of Leftmerica Socialist Republic. That would be an interesting experiment.

Click to expand...

Great idea!

StarTech said:

That sorta like those trying to blame our presidents for all the problems when he has 538 bosses in Congress that can't agree on a single thing most days. Heck they cant even get a budget done until the last minute and even then they are bickering over the details and block passage of the bills. Its something that must done every year. Most of them are just really old farts that simply don't care about us anymore except when comes to getting elected. Actually it looks like our country is coming to a stand still because of all the bickering.

You have heard of the term "A rolling stone gathers no moss." Well the Washington and State politicians are completely cover in moss lately. They are more worry whose a** to kiss then getting something beneficial done.

Click to expand...

You've got my $25 donation and vote (of course you arent from my district)

StarTech said:

So are the electric company non polluters themselves? And how are they going handle the bad batteries, just stick them in landfills? Or they are doing like they are here where they converting a 1100+ acres of prime farm land to solar farms using weed killers polluting our ground water. But what the hey we don't need food, water, and clothing any more.

Click to expand...

Actually there would be more than enough roof space on those mansions alone to power the entire state.
Even with the previous generation of solar cells , Sydney had more roof top capacity than the state could consume , provided it was sunny
No need for solar farms at all except for hoovering up government grants, subsidies & cashing in on tax breaks .

Hammermechanicman said:

You get the government you vote for. Obvioussly the voters in california want this. I have no sympathy for California. If their taxes to go to 100% so be it. Everyone is entitled to their politics and to vote for who they want. If your candidate does stupid stuff don't complain to me.

Click to expand...

I made a window sticker of my van that read
" Not happy, don't blame me I did not vote for the bast@@@s "
Within a year I was fronting a magistrate facing a public obscenity charge for the word Bast@@@s .
It got replaced with another one that read
"You voted for them
I did not
don't complain to me "
That had me fronting a magistrate for obstruction of view through a windscreen
People do not like being made to face the consequences of their own actions

StarTech said:

That sorta like those trying to blame our presidents for all the problems when he has 538 bosses in Congress that can't agree on a single thing most days. Heck they cant even get a budget done until the last minute and even then they are bickering over the details and block passage of the bills. Its something that must done every year. Most of them are just really old farts that simply don't care about us anymore except when comes to getting elected. Actually it looks like our country is coming to a stand still because of all the bickering.

You have heard of the term "A rolling stone gathers no moss." Well the Washington and State politicians are completely cover in moss lately. They are more worry whose a** to kiss then getting something beneficial done.

Click to expand...

Congress was designed to placate the South so the wealthy & entitled families would remain so.
It was directly copied from the British House of Lords
It was never intended to do anything for the general population and as far as I can see from here never has.
American politics will be a basket case until Congress is made to work as it should.
The system used here works relatively well but would be better if our upper house had a term or 3 times a rep with 1/3 voted for every election and no senator to server more than 2 consecutive terms
If you had a known 9 to 12 year tenure then you have the permenancy to allow you to go against the current trends and long enough not to have the party blackmail you with threatening not to endorse you at the next election.
You also need an independent ICAC to investigate publicly & openly political corruption . We have just lost our 4th Premier ( governor to you ) because of an ICAC investigation.

MParr said:

Wouldn’t it be great if California sought independence and became a sovereign nation?

Click to expand...

The USA would become an economic basket case without the financial support from the distribution of the taxes raised in California & New York right now , let alone the extra that will be raised when the world anti tax evasion regulations just agreed to are enacted .

bertsmobile1 said:

The USA would become an economic basket case without the financial support from the distribution of the taxes raised in California & New York right now , let alone the extra that will be raised when the world anti tax evasion regulations just agreed to are enacted .

Click to expand...

I guess that is debatable. California gets massive amounts of federal dollars for programs from pork barrel legislation in congress. The state alone is one of the largest economies on the planet and should flush with cash but economic mismanagement is destroying the state. Time will tell.

But where does the fed get the money from ?
You will find a good lump of it is just some of what was raised in Cal going back to Cal in a very public mannar to appease the voters.

bertsmobile1 said:

Congress was designed to placate the South so the wealthy & entitled families would remain so.
It was directly copied from the British House of Lords
It was never intended to do anything for the general population and as far as I can see from here never has.
American politics will be a basket case until Congress is made to work as it should.
The system used here works relatively well but would be better if our upper house had a term or 3 times a rep with 1/3 voted for every election and no senator to server more than 2 consecutive terms
If you had a known 9 to 12 year tenure then you have the permenancy to allow you to go against the current trends and long enough not to have the party blackmail you with threatening not to endorse you at the next election.
You also need an independent ICAC to investigate publicly & openly political corruption . We have just lost our 4th Premier ( governor to you ) because of an ICAC investigation.

Click to expand...

Our biggest problem is we don't have congressional term limits. (for representatives and senators)

Scrubcadet10 said:

Our biggest problem is we don't have congressional term limits. (for representatives and senators)

Click to expand...

Or Supreme Court Judges..

4getgto said:

Or Supreme Court Judges..

Click to expand...

Actually life time appointment of judges is a good thing because that allows them to make judgements that they know the government of the day will be very angry about .
The problem is how you appoint your judges
Down here a list is drawn up by the justice department and submitted to the government of the day who then either approve or reject the applicant based on a fixed set of criteria
And no judge can get to the supreme court if they have been a member of any political party.
This keeps politics & law at arms length from each other.
Our big problem is retired judges who want to sit on investigations of inquirery & commissions in retirement .
They get paid thousands a day and these can run for several years so become a cash cow.
The government of the day appoints the commissioners so most judges are weary of angering the government if they are money grubbers ( and most are )

People use to head to California for warmer weather and the promise of a better life. Now I hear many are leaving and this will be another reason for more to leave. I feel like going into my garage and starting all my Lawn Boys in defiance of this stupid mandate. Will this include mopeds, scooters and motorcycles? The last time I was in California, I saw a lot of them there—and they were not battery powered. And yes—fire depts. carry and use a lot of equipment that is powered by small engines. As a retired firefighter from Wisconsin, gas powered equipment was crucial, especially in cold weather. Ok, done ranting.

2smoked said:

People use to head to California for warmer weather and the promise of a better life. Now I hear many are leaving and this will be another reason for more to leave. I feel like going into my garage and starting all my Lawn Boys in defiance of this stupid mandate. Will this include mopeds, scooters and motorcycles? The last time I was in California, I saw a lot of them there—and they were not battery powered. And yes—fire depts. carry and use a lot of equipment that is powered by small engines. As a retired firefighter from Wisconsin, gas powered equipment was crucial, especially in cold weather. Ok, done ranting.

Click to expand...

Yep, every firefighting brush truck around here (pickups) either have a Honda or Vanguard running their pump.

StarTech said:

That sorta like those trying to blame our presidents for all the problems when he has 538 bosses in Congress that can't agree on a single thing most days. Heck they cant even get a budget done until the last minute and even then they are bickering over the details and block passage of the bills. Its something that must done every year. Most of them are just really old farts that simply don't care about us anymore except when comes to getting elected. Actually it looks like our country is coming to a stand still because of all the bickering.

You have heard of the term "A rolling stone gathers no moss." Well the Washington and State politicians are completely cover in moss lately. They are more worry whose a** to kiss then getting something beneficial done.

Click to expand...

Honestly, it's not even up to the 538 people. It's the lobbyist that have them bought and paid for. Government is like calling FedEx support. You think you're calling someone that can actually find your package. But you're getting someone who's looking at the same screen you're looking at. Their typical response "I so sorry dat you having dis problem. Now let me ask you 20 questions to verify the person I'm talking to, so I can give you no information about the location of your package."

This is the function of committee's now. And why no amendments are allowed on the house/Senate floor any longer. Everything has to be approved in committee (back door to lobbyist approval).

I've spent a lot of time in California. My trucking terminal was out there. I've met some really cool people out there. And some real dipshts. Funny thing, the coolest people didn't vote. They didn't care. HA HA HA HA HA

MParr said:

They have a problem even keeping the power flowing in California. I would suggest sheep or goats but, they will ban them based on farting.

Click to expand...

It's hypocritical.

I live in California and work tirelessly to get rid of these worse-than-useless politicians. I can only assume that the same election corruption that landed Dementia Joe in the Whitehouse is at work, bigtime, in California.

So I'm waiting to see a battery powered Z Turn. I see them running around with gas generators attached to keep them going. And where is Ca going to get the electricity to charge all this equipment? They don't have enough electricity now.

I gather battery operated grass trimmers, chainsaws, etc... will have a boost in sales. I would like to now which battery operated tools will become more popular with professional lawn care business. I haven't had much success at finding reviews and comparisons between different makes. Any help would be appreciated.

California: For all you do, this Bud’s for you!

Time to take the chainsaws to the California Capital Bld.. Just make sure it's at night. According to the precedence of leftest judges in other leftest states, it's not an insurrection if it's at night and no one's home. Of course, we all know, no one is EVER at home in the California Capital.

MParr said:

Those Congressmen aren’t worried about any of their constituents. They are more interested in passing bills to benefit special interest groups and skimming a little off in the process.

Click to expand...

Yep, we have the best legislators money can buy.

Keep your powder dry.

Well I'd never mow my grass again..lol.
Id need a truck load of batteries here to mow all my grass for sure. It took us half a day with 2 bats just to weed eat a few parts of what I usually trim using my buddies Crapsman battery trimmer last summer.
Seems the powers at will never mow their own yard but hire others to do it instead or they'd know bats suck with big yards. Especially hilly too like mine is, it's surely a big battery drainer I bet.
Also they'll soon learn the hard way how power grids cant support all the power needed for everyone charging all at once.
Hoover drying up now, many more plants across the country shutting down so move all your toilet paper over folks we'll have to hoard candles soon too. Geeez!

Hammermechanicman said:

You get the government you vote for. Obvioussly the voters in california want this. I have no sympathy for California. If their taxes to go to 100% so be it. Everyone is entitled to their politics and to vote for who they want. If your candidate does stupid stuff don't complain to me.

Click to expand...

"You get the government you vote for" Yes,serves 'em right! Everyone who voted for the clowns that passed this law needs to mow their lawns with an old style reel-type push mower like grandpa had! Problems, emissions-wise are solved!

Going to be interesting when a storm rolls through, trees all over the roads, power out and all the electric chain saws have dead batteries. What are all the lawn service folks going to do, aren’t any electric mowers that will run all day.

Kubotafan said:

I gather battery operated grass trimmers, chainsaws, etc... will have a boost in sales. I would like to now which battery operated tools will become more popular with professional lawn care business. I haven't had much success at finding reviews and comparisons between different makes. Any help would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

Maybe we shouldn't knock this battery powered stuff too quickly. They may be a lot easier to work on than gas engines.

Just sayin.

I came here to NorCal in 1969, the weekend of Woodstock, via the U.S.A.F.
It was quite lovely then in Northern CA, and still would be if the idiots did not let the Homeless have more rights than the Homeowners today..
California pretty much the entire state has always been the grower of more than one half of all the nations produce, etc... We even export the absolute best quality of it to other countries that will pay to have it air shipped to Norway, etc... It goes all over the world, every day..
In another career, I personally saw those hundreds of thousands of acres of rich farmland in the Central Valley, just green for as far as you could see and then miles past that, growing all the stuff you see at your grocery store produce section every day...
It was breathtakingly beautiful!!!! Walk into an orchard of Meyer Lemon Trees in bloom, several thousand acres deep--- Heaven must smell like that...
The reason this unbelievably stupid gas engine thing may happen is because that useless, drunk clown governor, Nuisance Newsom, nephew of Skeletor Nancy Pelusa', got installed here, and then got mad because over 1 million people voted to Recall his dumb butt, so he fixed that election, and he kept the job..
He is angry at CA and is looking at making our lives as miserable as possible..
He is even mandating all Retail outlets have a Gender Neutral Section or something idiotic like that too...
No more Girls clothing, Boys clothing, etc., Now, it will be Girls, Boys, and Gender Blah Blah, idiotic stuff..
For our Children!!! I cannot even imagine the conversation that will take place between this Idiot and the Savior one day... Gavin, Gavin, you did this???? Why???? Do you see how it hurt all these Children???
Of course, No Batteries whatever, will ever work for all the zillions of Lawn Companies doing zillions of miles of yard work every week... How will they charge them from the back of the old Pickup truck they drive several hundred thousand miles at a time???
It is the most idiotic thing ever to come out of that idiot's head to date...
Well, I take that back -- making a Children's Gender Whatever Section in all our Stores ----

MowManMow said:

Well I'd never mow my grass again..lol.
Id need a truck load of batteries here to mow all my grass for sure. It took us half a day with 2 bats just to weed eat a few parts of what I usually trim using my buddies Crapsman battery trimmer last summer.
Seems the powers at will never mow their own yard but hire others to do it instead or they'd know bats suck with big yards. Especially hilly too like mine is, it's surely a big battery drainer I bet.
Also they'll soon learn the hard way how power grids cant support all the power needed for everyone charging all at once.
Hoover drying up now, many more plants across the country shutting down so move all your toilet paper over folks we'll have to hoard candles soon too. Geeez!

Click to expand...

I remember a time when toilet paper was so plentiful that we'd wrap peoples tree's with it. lol

bertsmobile1 said:

They can ban the sale of them but for the time being not the use
So I could see good money in importing used petrol powered tools because it would be impossible to prove whaer they were originally bought from, provided they were a Cal compliant model in the first place.
Obviously all that pot smoking & sunshine has finally caused brains to evolve into muck

Click to expand...

No, it's not pot smoking and sunshine... I met the absolute nicest, kindest, hardest working people that were called "Hippies" in the day, and they were not brain dead by any means..
Now to be sure, that was some 50+ years ago.... So, the people here today perhaps doing bad stuff are not even cut from that cloth...
It's just the idiotic Governor in name only that did this because his panties are in a bind...

give me my gas powered equiptment or give me death!

PTmowerMech said:

Maybe we shouldn't knock this battery powered stuff too quickly. They may be a lot easier to work on than gas engines.

Just sayin.

Click to expand...

Get ready to get out the laptop and diagnostics software. Briggs has a special cable to connect to their new power packs that interfaces with their EFI software. I think MTD also uses their EFI software to also connect to their battery powered riders.

PTmowerMech said:

Maybe we shouldn't knock this battery powered stuff too quickly. They may be a lot easier to work on than gas engines.

Just sayin.

Click to expand...

I'll be less suspect when Fire departments start using them in crucial operations more

Wanna bet the ban goes hand in hand with Stanley-B & D setting up a battery plant in Cal .
If you look at it from an US & THEM point of view, all of the petrol powered stuff is made in THEM other states .
Compulsory voting at all levels of government has a lot going for it particularly when you look at the outcomes at all levels in the USA .
But the fore fathers got what they wanted and 200 years of brainwashing that making anything compulsory is the greatest sin that can be done against a person has led to a lot of the social problems that plague the USA today .
People who would happily wear face masks won't the second they become compulsory because it was made compulsory

Scrubcadet10 said:

I'll be less suspect when Fire departments start using them in crucial operations more

Click to expand...

Wait ! Electricity and Water = not a good mix.. Fix the Seals ! Fix the Seals, Frank !!! Don't you go out there to fight that fire without them!!!

Stokdgs said:

Wait ! Electricity and Water = not a good mix.. Fix the Seals ! Fix the Seals, Frank !!! Don't you go out there to fight that fire without them!!!

Click to expand...

Gas and water ain't good either. Especially for carburetors.

ILENGINE said:

Get ready to get out the laptop and diagnostics software. Briggs has a special cable to connect to their new power packs that interfaces with their EFI software. I think MTD also uses their EFI software to also connect to their battery powered riders.

Click to expand...

Ok, so the computer tells me what's wrong vs having to diagnose things that are still complicated to me. The time difference in replacing an electric motor vs a gas engine?
Time and money difference between changing a sensor vs clutch safety switch on a MTD rider.

it all boils down the time and money.

I'd add, it's all politics.

@PTmowerMech The thing is as of right now even if you diagnose the issue you cannot do the repairs. The new Briggs power packs require the unit to be shipped back to Briggs for repairs if you get a hard fault code. A lot of companies don't want techs poking around with their battery systems due to possibly damaging the unit or being injured. So unless things change there may not be a lot of repairs we can make.

You can say what you want but I live on the completely opposite coast! I am f#$&*ing tired of buying CA compliant power equipment when I don’t live there. Let the granola eaters out there deal with their own carburetor issues without dragging me down with them. I am getting really tired of making stuff NON CA compliant by drilling bigger holes in jets ?. Do they think everyone in CA is is completely stupid And not doing the same thing?

ILENGINE said:

@PTmowerMech The thing is as of right now even if you diagnose the issue you cannot do the repairs. The new Briggs power packs require the unit to be shipped back to Briggs for repairs if you get a hard fault code. A lot of companies don't want techs poking around with their battery systems due to possibly damaging the unit or being injured. So unless things change there may not be a lot of repairs we can make.

Click to expand...

The warranties won't last forever. Or is this mandated on Briggs engines that are out of warranty too?

whitejww said:

You can say what you want but I live on the completely opposite coast! I am f#$&*ing tired of buying CA compliant power equipment when I don’t live there. Let the granola eaters out there deal with their own carburetor issues without dragging me down with them. I am getting really tired of making stuff NON CA compliant by drilling bigger holes in jets ?. Do they think everyone in CA is is completely stupid And not doing the same thing?

Click to expand...

That's something you should complain to the manufacturer about. Or the customers who buy from the big box stores.
I imagine MTD don't really care if all their stuff is CA compliant. In fact, they probably save money by just making one product, with as many of the same parts (especially engines), with the same specs.

PTmowerMech said:

The warranties won't last forever. Or is this mandated on Briggs engines that are out of warranty too?

Click to expand...

I think that will be dependent on if Briggs has parts to do the repairs on their power cells. I suspect parts will be limited. And any major component failure will result in complete unit replacement due to cost.

And I have said it before, but manufacturers will need to standardize their products and make new technology compatible with old technology. So we need to get away from this week we will use 24 volt batteries, and next week is 36 volt batteries, and the 24 volt batteries have been discontinued in some cases before the warranty is even up. My biggest fear is we will be replacing complete pieces of equipment every few years because the battery has gone bad and either is too expensive to replace or may not be even available. Unless things improve expect to be throwing away a trimmer every couple years to replace it with something new.

I can only imagine, that for a very long time, there will still be standard, run of the mill mowers and engines. The sales market will dictate it. Seriously, if the riders at Walmart, Home Depot and the others are all $5K, there will be a HUGE market for used mowers.
Just like pre EGR diesels in semi trucks.

ILENGINE said:

I think that will be dependent on if Briggs has parts to do the repairs on their power cells. I suspect parts will be limited. And any major component failure will result in complete unit replacement due to cost.

And I have said it before, but manufacturers will need to standardize their products and make new technology compatible with old technology. So we need to get away from this week we will use 24 volt batteries, and next week is 36 volt batteries, and the 24 volt batteries have been discontinued in some cases before the warranty is even up. My biggest fear is we will be replacing complete pieces of equipment every few years because the battery has gone bad and either is too expensive to replace or may not be even available. Unless things improve expect to be throwing away a trimmer every couple years to replace it with something new.

Click to expand...

As all of the individual cells come from China & can be bought off Made in China for a tiny fraction of the actual power pack then hopefully repacked batteries will become a big thing
I still use my old WallStreet & Pismo laptops because I can still buy repacks for them or if I feel inclined buy the cells & repack myself .
Fairly sure the mod I use sends them to a 3rd world country to get done ( Indonesia most likely ) but at $ 95 for the NiCd Wallstreet & $ 120 for the Li I Pismo I don't really care

The game will interesting between the manufacturers and the aftermarket. Manufacturers will do their best to make everything proprietary with software and as the aftermarket hacks they will go to licensing the software to enable your equipment to run. Expired or invalid license and you have a paper weight. Forget changing motors and boards. Welcome to the brave new world.

Hammermechanicman said:

I have no sympathy for California. If their taxes to go to 100% so be it. Everyone is entitled to their politics and to vote for who they want. If your candidate does stupid stuff don't complain to me.

Click to expand...

The problem with this is the federal tax deduction for SALT (State And Local Taxes)… States with high tax rates don’t care… their residents just deduct what they pay on their federal tax return… which lowers their tax liability… the feds want their money so it looks to states with more fiscal responsibility to make up the difference…

Basically anyone who pays federal income tax is paying a portion of California’s (and New York’s, and Massachusetts, and Illinois…etc etc etc) taxes…

SHB said:

Going to be interesting when a storm rolls through, trees all over the roads, power out and all the electric chain saws have dead batteries. What are all the lawn service folks going to do, aren’t any electric mowers that will run all day.

Click to expand...

No problem, just fire up the battery powered generator to charge those batteries. No? I see a business opportunity building a battery trailer for ZTR mowers. Sheesh, glad I'm in Florida

I never realized the end of modern civilization as we know it would begin in California.

This is what happens when the media get fixated on a tiny part of a problem ( pollution ) and ignore the totality.
So for the past 10 years it has been tailpipe CO2, tailpipe CO2 , tailpipe CO2 , tailpipe CO2 day in & day out.
So in the shallow minds of the administrators all they have to do is quit IC engines & the planet is saved.
Add to that no IC engines are made in Calofornia so there is not nett loss of income by banning them.
Add to that the reincarnation of P C Barnham in the form of Elon Musk and even Joe Public believes that the only problem is CO2.
So to them, buy electric everything slap some panels on the roof then bolt a bomb to the side of your house and you can carry on temperature controlling your house with a thermal effiency of -20 to underwear comfortable 24/7 .
And of course Li batteries are clean & green, there is no pollution associated with them what so ever

Back in the 80's i did some moonlighting with a solar company called Ambient Energy. They specialized in solar home heating and domeatic water heating. I took college classes in the subject and my job was to do energy assesments and calculations. We partnered with the local power company to use their thermal camera to do heat loss calculations of a building and i used that with solar isolation tables to do heat and cooling load calculations and used that data to design solar systems. I also did the simple payback calculations or how may years will it take to make it worthwhile. Photovoltaic was not a big thing back then but i have been helping friends looking into PV do the payback calculations. Long story short. If people added more attic insulation and better windows they would get a much better payback on investment than a PV system. But an uber cool PV system would be so much better than boring old attic insulation even though it will take 20 years to pay for itself and insulation will average 3 to 5 years. Even a simple solar water heating system will payback in less than 10 years if you DIY it. If commiefonia focused a little more on changing building codes to make homes and buildings more energy efficient they would be better off than the grandstanding BS banning SORE.

bertsmobile1 said:

This is what happens when the media get fixated on a tiny part of a problem ( pollution ) and ignore the totality.
So for the past 10 years it has been tailpipe CO2, tailpipe CO2 , tailpipe CO2 , tailpipe CO2 day in & day out.
So in the shallow minds of the administrators all they have to do is quit IC engines & the planet is saved.
Add to that no IC engines are made in Calofornia so there is not nett loss of income by banning them.
Add to that the reincarnation of P C Barnham in the form of Elton Musk and even Joe Public believes that the only problem is CO2.
So to them, buy electric everything slap some panels on the roof then bolt a bomb to the side of your house and you can carry on temperature controlling your house with a thermal effiency of -20 to underwear comfortable 24/7 .
And of course Li batteries are clean & green, there is no pollution associated with them what so ever

Click to expand...

Lithium's carbon footprint

Hammermechanicman said:

The same self righteous ass hats that that continually vote in the idiots are the ones that drive their Hummers to the Sierra club meetings. To a certain extent we are all hypocrites but commiefornia has taken it to a whole new level. Nice place to visit but would never live there. Same for new york state. Maybe we can make California Oregon and Washington the Union of Leftmerica Socialist Republic. That would be an interesting experiment

Click to expand...

Hammermechanicman said:

You get the government you vote for. Obvioussly the voters in california want this. I have no sympathy for California. If their taxes to go to 100% so be it. Everyone is entitled to their politics and to vote for who they want. If your candidate does stupid stuff don't complain to me.

Click to expand...

No, the voters did not want this.. Over 1 million voters signed the petition to recall that idiot Nuisance/Newsom..
But the election turned out to be jacked again... People went to cast their vote and were told "they had already voted".. Sound fair to you??

Here's what I think about CA where I have lived for over 50 years - if all the great, great, people who do all the hardest work leave CA, then the whole place will collapse, because it will be left to the left to do all the work...

I met a lot of the biggest growers of all things in CA that we get at the grocery store produce section every day; they were all Armenian.. Why do you think they made that trip all the way to America to work even harder 24/7 growing thousands of acres of all the great stuff you get at the grocery store?
Because the absolute disaster, communist, marxist, socialist, life they had back home home was better?

Say what you want about CA all day long... Just be glad we, the normal people are still here keeping it going to feed half the Nation... And a lot of other countries that pay top dollar for the best CA produces..

Farming is an absolute 24/7/365days/year job... You have to really love it to do it.. It never stops...

The most beautiful weather, the most fertile soils, the most beautiful blue coastline the entire length of it, probably a few reasons why we stay and just put up with the evil state government..

Where I used to live, it was a 2-hr drive to the beautiful coastline and city of San Francisco, or 2 hours to the East. to all the snow you could ever imagine at Lake Tahoe..

My 2nd daughter, born and raised in CA, attended UCSB, (University of California, Santa Barbara), majoring in Political Science. Graduated summa cum laude in 3 years, and got a great job in State government..
Lasted barely 2 years there, she hated all the Corruption.. She was never going to give in to it..

So, it's something we all just deal with but we do not like it, and hope someday, it might change over to the other side for awhile..

bertsmobile1 said:

This is what happens when the media get fixated on a tiny part of a problem ( pollution ) and ignore the totality.
So for the past 10 years it has been tailpipe CO2, tailpipe CO2 , tailpipe CO2 , tailpipe CO2 day in & day out.
So in the shallow minds of the administrators all they have to do is quit IC engines & the planet is saved.
Add to that no IC engines are made in Calofornia so there is not nett loss of income by banning them.
Add to that the reincarnation of P C Barnham in the form of Elon Musk and even Joe Public believes that the only problem is CO2.
So to them, buy electric everything slap some panels on the roof then bolt a bomb to the side of your house and you can carry on temperature controlling your house with a thermal effiency of -20 to underwear comfortable 24/7 .
And of course Li batteries are clean & green, there is no pollution associated with them what so ever

Click to expand...

Does anyone think that if all the States in this Republic ever adopted the strictest emission rules of California, and perhaps a few other countries did the same, that this Little, Tiny, blip of kind of cleaner air, is going to make ANY difference, when the Rest of The World is hard at work, Polluting their part of the Atmosphere, Big Time, 24/7 ????????

Guess I just do not understand this "new"(?) math....

I met a lot of the biggest growers of all things in CA that we get at the grocery store produce section every day; they were all Armenian.. Why do you think they made that trip all the way to America to work even harder 24/7 growing thousands of acres of all the great stuff you get at the grocery store?
Because the absolute disaster, communist, marxist, socialist, life they had back home home was better?

Click to expand...

It is not the system as such but the people who exploited it for their benefit .
Not all that much different to what you posted "But the election turned out to be jacked again... People went to cast their vote and were told "they had already voted".. Sound fair to you"
Same as 1/3 of the leaders of supposedly democratic free market countries like Indonesia , Burma, Ceylon , Syria , Iran, Iraq , Nigeria etc etc etc .
Most of the political problems in South America can be seated back home to the USA doing their absolute best to undermine every government that was not 100% aligned with USA idologies because the CIA ( and other covert agencies ) have not noticed that the cold war was over decades ago .
Unfortunately once you set these things in motion it takes decades for them to work themselves out .
Add to that the detrimental effect of catholism which preaches to be meek and accept the rule of tyrants so the tyrants will allow the churches to remain there

Oh and in case you had not noticed Australia exports food all over the world as well
Even to the USA despite all of the efforts of various State & Federal governments doing their best to prevent it.

However all of this does not change the fact that the ban was stupid and will lead to a substantial increase in pollution on a global basis .

gsaunder said:

I live in California and work tirelessly to get rid of these worse-than-useless politicians. I can only assume that the same election corruption that landed Dementia Joe in the Whitehouse is at work, bigtime, in California.

Click to expand...

Quite the first post. !!!

Stokdgs said:

Does anyone think that if all the States in this Republic ever adopted the strictest emission rules of California, and perhaps a few other countries did the same, that this Little, Tiny, blip of kind of cleaner air, is going to make ANY difference, when the Rest of The World is hard at work, Polluting their part of the Atmosphere, Big Time, 24/7 ????????

Guess I just do not understand this "new"(?) math....

Click to expand...

We haven't been an actual republic since the lobbyist took over. We still call it one. But it's not.

Stokdgs said:

No, the voters did not want this.. Over 1 million voters signed the petition to recall that idiot Nuisance/Newsom..
But the election turned out to be jacked again... People went to cast their vote and were told "they had already voted".. Sound fair to you??

Here's what I think about CA where I have lived for over 50 years - if all the great, great, people who do all the hardest work leave CA, then the whole place will collapse, because it will be left to the left to do all the work...

I met a lot of the biggest growers of all things in CA that we get at the grocery store produce section every day; they were all Armenian.. Why do you think they made that trip all the way to America to work even harder 24/7 growing thousands of acres of all the great stuff you get at the grocery store?
Because the absolute disaster, communist, marxist, socialist, life they had back home home was better?

Say what you want about CA all day long... Just be glad we, the normal people are still here keeping it going to feed half the Nation... And a lot of other countries that pay top dollar for the best CA produces..

Farming is an absolute 24/7/365days/year job... You have to really love it to do it.. It never stops...

The most beautiful weather, the most fertile soils, the most beautiful blue coastline the entire length of it, probably a few reasons why we stay and just put up with the evil state government..

Where I used to live, it was a 2-hr drive to the beautiful coastline and city of San Francisco, or 2 hours to the East. to all the snow you could ever imagine at Lake Tahoe..

My 2nd daughter, born and raised in CA, attended UCSB, (University of California, Santa Barbara), majoring in Political Science. Graduated summa cum laude in 3 years, and got a great job in State government..
Lasted barely 2 years there, she hated all the Corruption.. She was never going to give in to it..

So, it's something we all just deal with but we do not like it, and hope someday, it might change over to the other side for awhile..

Click to expand...

I used to love going out to California. I hauled thousands of loads of produce from Watsonville, Gilroy and many other places. From far west coast to the Bronx, Phili and Boston Market. Your high patrol, who worked the weigh stations and bug check stations acted like their tickets were their Christmas bonuses. When I'd bring in flavoring from the east coast or the midwest, too many times, they forced me to break the seal on my trailer, so they could look in and see the hazmat labels on the container. Which caused a FRIGGIN HUGE problem when I'd arrive at the shippers with a broken seal on a load of food grade chemicals. The DOT would reseal the load before I left. But the numbers on the BOL's didn't match the numbers on the original seal. Pain in the butt, revenue generators.
My biggest "you're a moron" ticket came from being 1 hole too far, on a 53' trailer that had less than 3,000lbs on it. I wasn't even close to being over weight. But because of the stupid length law, I ended up paying about $200 in fines. The DOT officer didn't seem to understand that the trailer isn't any longer, regardless of where the trailer axles were. And that the law was to help keep the heavy loads from weighing down both the truck and/or trailer axles.

Oh, and the Mexican ladies of California. OMG. Prettiest in the world.

bertsmobile1 said:

( and other covert agencies ) have not noticed that the cold war was over decades ago .

Click to expand...

Just keep telling yourself that. Only thing that has changed is the technology. The game is still the same.

No offense to Californians, but you elected the POS Governor you have and even had a chance to put a good person in recently, but NOOOOO.... if you want to salvage what's left of your state then GET RID OF DEMOCRATS, especially in government.

MyGrassHasCrabs said:

No offense to Californians, but you elected the POS Governor you have and even had a chance to put a good person in recently, but NOOOOO.... if you want to salvage what's left of your state then GET RID OF DEMOCRATS, especially in government.

Click to expand...

Hard to put in a good one when it's all rigged..

PTmowerMech said:

I used to love going out to California. I hauled thousands of loads of produce from Watsonville, Gilroy and many other places. From far west coast to the Bronx, Phili and Boston Market. Your high patrol, who worked the weigh stations and bug check stations acted like their tickets were their Christmas bonuses. When I'd bring in flavoring from the east coast or the midwest, too many times, they forced me to break the seal on my trailer, so they could look in and see the hazmat labels on the container. Which caused a FRIGGIN HUGE problem when I'd arrive at the shippers with a broken seal on a load of food grade chemicals. The DOT would reseal the load before I left. But the numbers on the BOL's didn't match the numbers on the original seal. Pain in the butt, revenue generators.
My biggest "you're a moron" ticket came from being 1 hole too far, on a 53' trailer that had less than 3,000lbs on it. I wasn't even close to being over weight. But because of the stupid length law, I ended up paying about $200 in fines. The DOT officer didn't seem to understand that the trailer isn't any longer, regardless of where the trailer axles were. And that the law was to help keep the heavy loads from weighing down both the truck and/or trailer axles.

Oh, and the Mexican ladies of California. OMG. Prettiest in the world.

Click to expand...

PTmowerMech -------
I know exactly where you were ! The company I worked for shipped zillions of lbs of fruit and vegetables from Watsonville and Gilroy.. Gilroy may still be the lettuce capital of the world, I believe..
Watsonville had a lot of great Strawberries and Bartlett Pears we shipped from there.. I'v been there many times.

We employed truckers 24/7 to ship our growers produce all over the US, especially to the Hunts Point, New York Auction, which was the standard to set the prices of all this beautiful produce for the day, every day of the year..

I travelled the entire length of Hwy-99 North and South and then out to the East to see the Packing Houses Cold Storage Facilities where I had installed our own private Network equipment and trained the people how to use it, and then back to Sacramento to the Headquarters to make sure it stayed up and running 24/7..

I remember we used a LOT of Englund Trucks from that company and a few others but not very many..
They would all be Reefers and we would put a "Ryan Instruments" little computer in there, to measure the absolute temperature inside that reefer all the way to the destination..It had to get there at 34 degrees or there was going to be a problem..

Sorry the CHP and others out there were sometimes real idiots...

Once they tried to jack some trucking company because their cabs had tinted windows...
It went all the way up to the Supreme Court who ruled that the State cannot do anything to these trucker's tinted windows, trucks that will interfere with "Interstate Commerce", and they were right...

Years later, I used that exact court ruling to get out of a tinted window ticket I got from some idiot Sheriff trolling the road because he was just a big fat dork...
Hell, I was dressed in a Suit going to a Boy Scout Eagle Scout Awards Ceremony at Church... Big law breaker I was...

I'm glad you liked the hispanic ladies !!! I know, some of them are absolute knockouts !!! And they all know how to cook really well and take care of you, the kids and house.. And forever loyal..

MyGrassHasCrabs said:

No offense to Californians, but you elected the POS Governor you have and even had a chance to put a good person in recently, but NOOOOO.... if you want to salvage what's left of your state then GET RID OF DEMOCRATS, especially in government.

Click to expand...

No offense taken.. We, the normal people in CA did not elect this nephew of the even more evil Nancy Pelosi..
We, the normal here, got over 1 million signatures to recall this idiot and somehow he still kept the job..
People I know personally went to vote that day and were told " You have already voted"...
The kind of $$$ that goes around those parts must be amazing...Some people are so controlled by it..
I could care less about being rich with $$$
I want to be rich toward God..
Over 2,000 years ago the Savior talked about "the love of money is the root of all evil" and He was right..
Yes, we the normal people would love to get rid of these swamp rats.. It will happen someday for sure, but not sure when..

I have a 110v Craftsman chain saw I use once in a while for trimming small stuff, BUT if I want/need to get serious about something bigger than 4" I get out the 250cc saw that btw is GAS powered. If all I had was the 110v and a tree was across my service power line, well, the 110v wouldn't cut it!(sorry, couldn't resist it!)

SamB said:

I have a 110v Craftsman chain saw I use once in a while for trimming small stuff, BUT if I want/need to get serious about something bigger than 4" I get out the 250cc saw that btw is GAS powered. If all I had was the 110v and a tree was across my service power line, well, the 110v wouldn't cut it!(sorry, couldn't resist it!)

Click to expand...

Agree 100%.. Gas Powered chain saws = the only way to get the job done...
I have cut huge trees in the Tahoe National Forest for decades, that the loggers left for whatever reason..
No way any electrical thingy would even make it - and they probably only have a little 12 inch bar or something..
I have learned how to sharpen the chains myself and it is really good to be able to do that and have lots of spares with you when you go up Ice House Road off of Highway 50...
The Loggers version of "Chisel Chain" is absolutely brutal to wood and will cut it so fast, you really have to be aware of it and make sure that when the bar goes through so fast, it does not accidently nick your knee (2 foot long bar).. Ask me how I know..

Right before the ban takes effect they will probably put a $100 deposit on all lithium batteries to make sure you recycle them and then they will put a special green excise tax on them. I think i need to look into making counterfit black market OPE batteries now so i can be ready to make a fortune in the sunshine state in a few years. I can probably get plenty of startup capital from lunchbox Joe as long as i tell them it's for the new green deal.

All I can say whose is ever is office is not the fault of voters but those that sit of their backsides and don't vote. They don't have the right to complain. There several customers that are bitching about who is in office both state and federal but never bother to vote. For one it was against his religion. I vote so I can have voice and the right to complain when an idiot or idiots does stupid stuff.

We all get screwed by all the politicians be it Republicians, Democrats, or Independents.

untill you have compulsory voting you will always get the worst government that money can buy .
But in the eyes of the population making voting compulsory is an act of communism because it contravines your rights not to vote .
untill you have an independent electorial board that is untouchable by either party every election will be rigged .
There is a good reason why the quality of life & length of life in the USA is declining and has been doing so since 1980 and it has nothing to do with the hard work done by Joe Average.
Every one of those billionairs flying around in their private jets got there by putting your money in their pockets and usually giving next to nothing back.
But the culture that has been carefully constructed over decades by the wealthy elevating the "self made man" to the status of a GOD .
Perfect example is ex-president Trump, a man who accumulates more money is a day than the entire members on this list makes in a year but pays no tax on any of it is revered to the point of worship when in reality his assets should all be siezed to recover the money he has stolen from each & every one of you .

Kubotafan said:

I gather battery operated grass trimmers, chainsaws, etc... will have a boost in sales. I would like to now which battery operated tools will become more popular with professional lawn care business. I haven't had much success at finding reviews and comparisons between different makes. Any help would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

I have a few Li-ion battery powered items: A string trimmer and 21" push mower, both 80v and batteries interchangeable between both. Also a 14" chainsaw with a 40v battery. I'm happy with them except the face that Lowes (they're the Kobalt brand) likes to make things obsolete after a short time.

I'm not necessarily a "green" person, I also have gasoline-powered mowers, but it's really nice to just press a button/squeeze a trigger, and it whirrs away doing its thing!

@gamma_ray Lowes with Kobalt isn't the only brand that does that. You can add Snapper, Greenworks, Husqvarna, to that list also.

There is no arguement that for infrequently used household tools battery powered ones are very convienant .
have no problems when told some one bought one because they found them more convienent.
In fact I have advised quite a few of my customers to buy battery powered gear for one reason or another.

The MASSIVE objection comes from those who buy them for the reason of virtue signaling telling all & sundry how THEY are saving the planet.
The truth of the matter is the use of battery powered tools causes a substantial increase in the overall amount of pollution on a global basis
So while you might get clearer sunnier skys in California, eventually the pollution from China Chille Indonesia Brazil etc etc will drift across them because there are no border walls for the atmosphere , unless of course Mr Trump is relected in which case he will of course build them and make some one else pay .

There is a big difference between doing some thing to benefit the environment and beeing seen to do something that you say will benefit but actually will do the opposite.
Add to that the fact that even where it is physically possible to recycle the old batteries, it is not and never will be economical to do so.
Thus California will export all of the old dead batteries to some third world country for unsafe disposal killing thousands as is currently done with most of the e-waste from the nice clean technology companies based in California.

While most folks in most countries like to feel they are somhow doing whatever they do better than other countries and we love the global blame game. I think we need to rename California from the sunshine state to the virtue signaling state.

ILENGINE said:

@gamma_ray Lowes with Kobalt isn't the only brand that does that. You can add Snapper, Greenworks, Husqvarna, to that list also.

Click to expand...

I just stated what I personally own, and my experience with them. I believe the same Kobalt line is also manufactured for another name/color.

I was working San Francisco working on the new round Apple buildin a couple of years ago and I decided to buy a Gold Wing so I could go riding on weekends and get through the traffic going to and from work.

I went to register it and it hadn't been registered for like 4 years. They wanted ME to pay the registration fees and taxes on it so I could ride it. I told them I wasn't going to ride it, I was just going to take it back to Washington State where home is and haul it there in the back of my pickup truck.

Took it home to Washington, registered it at the DMV for one year and rode it all over..

Imaine the taxes and fees they get for old trucks parked out in fields?? Nobody will buy them because of all the taxes and fees..

I got out of that Apple job as fast as I could. It wasn't worth the money living in my RV there.

Cali is doing the same with trucks. You can’t use any freight hauling truck older than 2011 without extensive modifications. A sliding scale on age of trucks until 2035 when all diesel and gas trucks are completely banned, electric only. I’m not sure what the people in that state are going to do but I’m sure it will involve everyone else in the US providing some type of expensive bailout.

Want to pizz off a tree hugger? Explain to them how the electricity to charge their oh so environmentally friendly battery powered lawn mower is generated by burning some type of fossil fuel. The main power plant feeding LA is a huge coal fired plant in Delta Utah.

Have relatives moving out of Cali. had enough, & they were born there..

Hammermechanicman said:

Want to pizz off a tree hugger? Explain to them how the electricity to charge their oh so environmentally friendly battery powered lawn mower is generated by burning some type of fossil fuel. The main power plant feeding LA is a huge coal fired plant in Delta Utah.

Click to expand...

Exactly
SO the pollution is happening some where else so it does not exist !!!

And just to get a couple more datas point out there….
1. In April the ninth court of appeals in Cali decided that the state law which prohibits non-union workers from working on TV and movie jobs in Cali also applies to trucking! “Owner Operators and other non-union truckers” are prohibited from operating in California. This involves thousands of truck drivers that used to help move freight in/out of the ports in Long Beach and LA.
2. According to the Epoch Times yesterday, the American Trucking Association is stating that nationally, up to 30% of truckers will be quitting their jobs if vaccines become mandatory.
That will certainly reduce air pollution! Instead of having 100 ships waiting off the coast of California, we’ll have 500 ships.

We import some goods direct from China. It comes in a container. The dock fee was $500 last year. Earlier this year it went up to a dock fee of $2500. Last month it rose to $25,000 dock fee. Yes $25,000. The value of the material $ 40,000. Yes the dock fee gets passed on to the consumer. We are in for some long term shortages and severe inflation. Get Ready.

BudLight said:

Cali is doing the same with trucks. You can’t use any freight hauling truck older than 2011 without extensive modifications. A sliding scale on age of trucks until 2035 when all diesel and gas trucks are completely banned, electric only. I’m not sure what the people in that state are going to do but I’m sure it will involve everyone else in the US providing some type of expensive bailout.

Click to expand...

Cali is biting off more than they can chew. I don't think they'll ever go that far, without a means to do so. Their infrastructure would have to be like it is in the Minority Report. That's at least 50 years away. Or more.

Florida and Texas.......... We have the Ports open and the people to work those ports... it would take a week for those ships to get to florida, providing they make it through the panama canal.

Don't underestimate the stupidity of California and their ability enact economy crushing laws.

Hammermechanicman said:

Don't underestimate the stupidity of California and their ability enact economy crushing laws.

Click to expand...

It's about time for an earthquake or something, isn't it?

Scrubcadet10 said:

It's about time for an earthquake or something, isn't it?

Click to expand...

That sounds all well and good until people start dying. Just sayin.

I think California should ban ALL power generated by fossil fuel. Since hydroelectric accounts for something like 15% of their powe and the last nuclear plant at Diablo Canyon is in the process of being shut down about 80% comes from natural gas and coal. Any self respecting tree hugger state would refuse to use any power that is not "green" whatever the F that is supposed to be. I don't know how any proper virtue signalers could live with themselves using dirty fossil fuel powered energy.


Intermountain Power Plant is a large coal-fired power plant at Delta, Utah, USA. It has an installed capacity of 1,900 MW, is owned by the Intermountain Power Agency, and is operated by the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power.

bertsmobile1 said:

That had me fronting a magistrate for obstruction of view through a windscreen

Click to expand...

bertsmobile1 said:

People do not like being made to face the consequences of their own actions

Click to expand...

Uhhhh, yup! Couldn't have said it better myself.

PTmowerMech said:

Cali is biting off more than they can chew. I don't think they'll ever go that far, without a means to do so. Their infrastructure would have to be like it is in the Minority Report. That's at least 50 years away. Or more.

Click to expand...

Those laws I referenced are already on the books.

BudLight said:

Those laws I referenced are already on the books.

Click to expand...

It's not a law. It's an executive order. Which is meaningless.

Worried about manual transmissions going away? Get ready for an extinction event properly worth grieving over, because Gavin Newsom has just announced plans to abolish the internal combustion engine by 2035. In an executive order announced Wednesday, Newsom said sales of internal-combustion passenger vehicles and light trucks would be banned by 2035. Instead of gas and diesel vehicles, the mandate calls for the sale of zero-emission vehicles. Medium- and heavy-duty trucks will be given an extra decade to comply.

PTmowerMech said:

It's not a law. It's an executive order. Which is meaningless.

Click to expand...

Actually the executive order is for the vaccine mandate from Biden which the vast majority of companies seem to be enforcing. The California laws are just that. They’re on the books,

BudLight said:

Actually the executive order is for the vaccine mandate from Biden which the vast majority of companies seem to be enforcing. The California laws are just that. They’re on the books,

Click to expand...

I stand corrected. I went back to look for a reference and discovered that this happened Wednesday of last week and relates to non-union drivers.

A federal appellate court on Wednesday reversed a ruling that prevented California from enforcing a new labor law that trucking companies contend will force them to discontinue the use of independent owner-operators and classify all drivers as employees.
In a 2-1 decision, a panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals found that a federal judge in San Diego abused his discretion by issuing an injunction that prevented the state labor commissioner from enforcing Assembly Bill 5, passed in 2019.

Here’s a link to the article about the truckers vaccine mandates.

Let's go Brandon

BudLight said:

I stand corrected. I went back to look for a reference and discovered that this happened Wednesday of last week and relates to non-union drivers.

A federal appellate court on Wednesday reversed a ruling that prevented California from enforcing a new labor law that trucking companies contend will force them to discontinue the use of independent owner-operators and classify all drivers as employees.
In a 2-1 decision, a panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals found that a federal judge in San Diego abused his discretion by issuing an injunction that prevented the state labor commissioner from enforcing Assembly Bill 5, passed in 2019.

Click to expand...

That's real there. And glad it was overturned. CA doesn't like independent drivers, because they take work away from BIG trucking companies with deep pockets to donate from.

Seen on the news tonight where they're training hundreds of women to drive trucks (due to the nationwide shortage). Salary's range from $50,000 to $90,000 a year. Some companies offering $5,000 sign on bonus. How times have changed.

PTmowerMech said:

That's real there. And glad it was overturned. CA doesn't like independent drivers, because they take work away from BIG trucking companies with deep pockets to donate from.

Click to expand...

You mean big truckung companies in the USA actually have drivers !!!!! wow
All of he majors down here have been 100 % sub contract for decades
All of the local delivery companies are aslo 100% sub or sub-sub contractors
And yes all of them have to be regestered as a Pty Ltd company to absolve Fedex, DHL etc from any liability from what the drivers actually do .
I think the only trucking company with employees now days is the post office .

And Scag has just said the new Battery Power Zero turn Liberty for example, for 2022 will cost $15K.....................

That's insane.

bertsmobile1 said:

You mean big truckung companies in the USA actually have drivers !!!!! wow
All of he majors down here have been 100 % sub contract for decades
All of the local delivery companies are aslo 100% sub or sub-sub contractors
And yes all of them have to be regestered as a Pty Ltd company to absolve Fedex, DHL etc from any liability from what the drivers actually do .
I think the only trucking company with employees now days is the post office .

Click to expand...

More in the California news this morning. Link attached for article about logistics CEO toured docks. Laws in place are prohibiting stacking of empty containers any higher than two for esthetic (good looks) reasons. No place to unload new loaded freight containers.

gamma_ray said:

... the face that Lowes (they're the Kobalt brand) likes to make things obsolete after a short time.

Click to expand...

Have you tried getting a solder iron and replace just the batteries? That's what I did to keep my 90's drills going.
New lithium batteries are WAY less than buying a new battery pack. Also, for kicks, I tried what I saw on utube- get batteries from recycle box. All the ones I have grabbed had only 1 bad cell. One of the huge batteries I got has 20 lithium batteries of which 2 are weak.

Container stacking was suspended for the next 90 days, because of the congestion.

upupandaway said:

Have you tried getting a solder iron and replace just the batteries? That's what I did to keep my 90's drills going.
New lithium batteries are WAY less than buying a new battery pack. Also, for kicks, I tried what I saw on utube- get batteries from recycle box. All the ones I have grabbed had only 1 bad cell. One of the huge batteries I got has 20 lithium batteries of which 2 are weak.

Click to expand...

I'd be leary of mix and match, being uncertain on mismatching a battery cell and getting a cell with the wrong capacity and/or impedance in relation to the rest of the cells in the pack.

If the packs software logic overheats the cell during charging, there's always the possibility of fire (or explosion).

enigma-2 said:

Container stacking was suspended for the next 90 days, because of the congestion.

Supply chain crisis prompts city officials to suspend shipping container stacking limits

Appropriately zoned properties will be allowed to stack up to four containers, up from two as outlined by the city's municipal code.

lbbusinessjournal.com

Click to expand...

This shipping and supply crisis has been going on for months. I was going to finish this post with comments regarding the intelligence of the politicians involved with the development of these issues. But there’s no reason to do so. But, enough said. This is a lawnmower forum. I’m going to shut up.

We stack them 8 hight but at $ 1200 a lift it gets very expensive if they have to shift 7others to get to yours .
Not heped by poor planing & designs so there is a single lane for trucks so once they are on the wharf, no chance of changing the loading / unloading sequence.
Originally they were all going to be loaded onto trains then taken to outer urban trans shipping yards but some one under estimated the volume .

enigma-2 said:

I'd be leary of mix and match, being uncertain on mismatching a battery cell and getting a cell with the wrong capacity and/or impedance in relation to the rest of the cells in the pack.

If the packs software logic overheats the cell during charging, there's always the possibility of fire (or explosion).

Click to expand...

The repacking problem comes when you get plain ended cells and not terminal tabs
The heat from soldering a Li battery can be enough to cause it to go critical.
Li batteries go critical at temperatures from 76 deg C through to 95 deg C.
At this temperature they run away and burst into fire .
Been a couple of people badly burned from this happening .
also the prime reason why you never bolt a Tesla Power wall to the side of your house
If you decide to go off grid you must use a flow cell battery which is wet so can not explode or burst into flames , requires no cooling and can be discharged 100%
But of course the reincarnation of P T Barnam has firmly implanted the name Tesla in every ones mind.
For the same reason, grid sized Li batteries are an idiot idea as they can end up using more power keeping them cool than they are storing
Molten metal and / or flow cells are the absolute best solutions but they don't have the worlds richest man spruking total BS in order to make himself even wealthier at a massive risk & cost to everyone else .
As a side note Musk donated a fleet of Teslas to the climate conference in Glasgow again to bamboozle the world leaders.
However there is only 1 charging port available and the local grid can not handle the amount of power needed to recharge all of them overnight so thay are bringing in 200 diesel generator powered recharging stations to handle the load
Smoke & mirrors ?

bertsmobile1 said:

As a side note Musk donated a fleet of Teslas to the climate conference in Glasgow again to bamboozle the world leaders.
However there is only 1 charging port available and the local grid can not handle the amount of power needed to recharge all of them overnight so thay are bringing in 200 diesel generator powered recharging stations to handle the load
Smoke & mirrors ?

Click to expand...

Yes.

enigma-2 said:

I'd be leary of mix and match, being uncertain on mismatching a battery cell and getting a cell with the wrong capacity and/or impedance in relation to the rest of the cells in the pack.

If the packs software logic overheats the cell during charging, there's always the possibility of fire (or explosion).

Click to expand...

If you want to be that carefull, the batteries are labeled but hey, to each his own.

Hammermechanicman said:

Want to pizz off a tree hugger? Explain to them how the electricity to charge their oh so environmentally friendly battery powered lawn mower is generated by burning some type of fossil fuel. The main power plant feeding LA is a huge coal fired plant in Delta Utah.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I read they're planning on shutting down two Nuclear plants (stupid) and another one, I cannot remember what flavor fossil fuel that powers it.

However, they dont have replacement power plants for those they're shutting down, so they will be hurting more! All in the name of "going green".

BTW, a plant that uses wood, as in cutting forest trees down, to heat the steam boilers qualifies as a "renewable energy" powered plant. Does that make any sense? Of course not, but it's all a shell game to appease those who think it's going to be better.

S

shurguywutt said:

Yes.

Click to expand...

Smoke and mirrors

gamma_ray said:

Yeah, I read they're planning on shutting down two Nuclear plants (stupid) and another one, I cannot remember what flavor fossil fuel that powers it.

However, they dont have replacement power plants for those they're shutting down, so they will be hurting more! All in the name of "going green".

BTW, a plant that uses wood, as in cutting forest trees down, to heat the steam boilers qualifies as a "renewable energy" powered plant. Does that make any sense? Of course not, but it's all a shell game to appease those who think it's going to be better.

Click to expand...

That is in fact a little less damaging than using gas or coal as you are consuming the energy that fell on the plant in recient times , not what has bee squirled away umpteen million years ago
This is the problem with the empathise on CO2
CO2 IS NOT THE PROBLEM
Heat imbalance is the problem, and CO2 only plays a tiny part of it
The combined heat from the sun + what we make is more than can get radiated out overnight so we just keep on getting hotter .
A very big ( in fact bigger ) part of the problem is all of the heat that falls on land that no longer has any plants growing on it
The plants convert the heat into chemical energy which is used to make mass , cellulose , basically according to the famous E=MC 2 equation backwards
Get a thermometer and read the temperature inside your house, outside your house, on the driveway, on the lawn, on the lawn and if available under trees and the tree canopy itself.
Do it at midday and midnight
Good chance even at midnight the road & driveway will still be hotter than the grass and the air so will still be radiating heat into the atmosphere .
As such, solar is the winner hands down as it directly converts the sun's energy into electricity = plus some waste heat but in the morning your solar panel will be quite cold while your tile roof will still be hotter than the surrounding air.
But like idiots in place of putting them in cities to reduce the heat sink effect of all of the concrete we cut down forests and build solar farms which are far less efficient in adsorbing solar energy than a forest is and buggers up water cycles as well.
But putting cells on city & urban roofs makes it hard ( near impossible ) to balance the power grid & ever harder to run the network & make you pay for power so the electricity supply company has little to sell but all of the costs of maintaining the grid ( a lot more expensive than most would believe )/
Add to that solar panels on the roof keep the house cooler and cooling uses a lot more energy than heating and remember all of the cold inside adds more heat outside so makes the city hotter for longer so the air conditioning is on all night .
Large scale rapid breeder power stations were a BS idea from day one
Their prime purpose was to generate scrap plutonium that was cheaply converted into atomic warheads.
Take that away and the plants are by & large uneconomic as the power sold never covers the construction & maintenance costs let alone the proper disposal of the waste .
Pebble bed & liquid salt reactors are economic to run and in particular the liquid salt reactors are 100 safe because if the reactor fails the salt solidifies and reaction stops so the only danger is ionizing the air which is not really a problem that is easy to overcome ( dump lead oxide, Boron oxide , waste plutonium granules or any one of a squillion dense materials .)
So if burning coal is a 10 then gas would be a 6 and fresh cut wood would be a 5

Our planet's cycles are far more complex than one can imagine. Even scientists don't understand most of the time. The real problem is that people think the earth is going to last forever. It definitely won't in its current form. Nothing from our DNA or your wife's kitchen gets better if left to the mercy of time. Just take a look at your highschool yearbook photo and compare it to how you look now. The 2nd LAW of thermodynamics states that entropy aka disorder (destruction) increases with time in an open system (ie. the earth). Only man in his arrogance will foolishly believe he can stop time's arrow, he cannot. Any mandate just comes back to the love of/lust for money, power, and control.

For a deeper study on how things inevitably will end, I believe there is a book about it - the number one seller of all time. In fact, the things going on today start to make a lot more sense now.

Back to mowers guys ?

Well eventually the sun will explode but fortunately I will be gone by many millions years by then.
However I would like it to last for the last 3 decades of my life & I seriously doubt it will the way we are going.
I have been here for 13 years and in that time we have had 3 ( once in 100 year floods ) and 3 major bushfires each & every one worse has been worse than the previous by a substantial amount .
Each & every drought has been bigger and lasted for longer than the previous one
Each & every flood has been bigger than the last
For the fist time in our recorded history we have had tornadoes in NSW .
And it would go further back in time than that because the local indiginious peoples do not have a word to describe a tornado and their culture & language goes back at least 80,000 years

So what was being said in my university days has come to pass, more extreme weather conditions.
Unfortunately the media at the time used the most dire of the forwarnings like a 2 meter rise in sea level to ridicule & discredit all of the work
here was an interesting paper nearly 10 years ago I listened to that looked at the consequences of altering the weight of the poles.
Back then it was considered pure fantasy but now we are faced with an artic ocean free of block ice and an anartic ice shelf getting thicker
there is a tipping point where this could cause a larger than normal shift in the tilt and a few degrees could make a massive difference, particularly to ocean currents so the UK could end up just as cold as Iceland & the great lakes of the USA / Canada frozen over all year Autralia's rainfall would become almost non existant except at the very top where it would be flooded several times a year.
All of course highly subjective and based on computer modeling which was even then only rated as 40% accurate

Both sides exaggerate to the point of a lie which of course confuses Joe public no end .
But of course there is no planet B to use for experimenting with so erring on the side of caution with planet A would be considered prudent.
However just about every government is hostage to vested interest who profit from excessive consumption of short life products be it coal, oil, cars , shirts, shoes houses or even entire cities
And this is being demonstrated perfectly here with the Cal legialation
The millionares want to fly their private jets and the travel / tourism industry want millions of bums to fly in and out every day to fill their cash registers .
So they ban some thing that at best would account for 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 % of Cal's air pollution while planning for more airports and larger cities.

In a rather heated exchange with one of the apartment living self appointed planet saviours we did a calculation about 2 stroke lawn mowers
Assuming that every one of the 1.75 million houses in Sydney used their 2 stroke Victa lawn mower for 2 hours ( 2 liters of fuel ) 52 weeks a year the amount of oil discharged into the atmosphere from the exhausts works out to 1 days worth of unburned jet A1 spewed out the back of the jets using Sydney airport and we are now building a bigger one .
She did the calculaltions about 3 times had the rest of the panel triple checking the statistics , then went red, got teary and raced off the stage,
There is a massive difference between doing some thng that will make a difference and being seen to be doing something for the sake of looking like you are doing something.

Next up in Kali is a ban on all hydro mowers. Going back to belt drives. All that hydro fluid being dumped illegally. LOL

Interesting thread. But I'm surprised that no one has commented on California's mandate that all of new car sales will be zero-emission by 2035 (new bus and truck sales to be zero-emission by 2045).

The way the law is written, it's based on "if feasible ". I doubt that gas powered generators can be replaced with current technology. Lawn mowers and trimmers, yes.

Sadly, there's no way to clean up a lawn mower engine the same way CARB leaned up automobiles. I believe that would have been the best compromise.

enigma-2 said:

Interesting thread. But I'm surprised that no one has commented on California's mandate that all of new car sales will be zero-emission by 2035 (new bus and truck sales to be zero-emission by 2045).

The way the law is written, it's based on "if feasible ". I doubt that gas powered generators can be replaced with current technology. Lawn mowers and trimmers, yes.

Sadly, there's no way to clean up a lawn mower engine the same way CARB leaned up automobiles. I believe that would have been the best compromise.

Click to expand...

I mentioned that diesel/gas freight trucks were headed for the guillotine in 2035 but I thought that was the date they would banned from use in California making electric powered trucks mandatory. Do they get to continue their use to end of life, or will they all be abandoned along the highway?

At the moment no one has a viable zero emission delivery vehicle
They have small delivery vans but the battery pack weighs in at over a ton all by itself . Add another ton of chassis & body work and you are at 2 ton empty which gives them a payload of 1 ton or less without going to duel wheels and the range is very short without 2 tons of battery .
Big transport will go to a hydrogen powered IC engine, they are already using them off road in mining & earthworks and the running costs are actually lower than diesel .
The big problem is stopping the hydrogen going bang big time in a collision / rollover because we can not separate compressed liquified hydrogen from hydrogen gas ( think Hindenberg ) in our minds.
The problem with using hydrogen is the current production of hydrogen is very very dirty and clean green hydrogen is rather like atomic fusion, always 5 to 10 years away from being commercially viable .
Busses can be replaced with trams or trolleys easily enough but every one in the burbs will bitch about the wires . The push bike riders will bitch about tram lines and sue every time they get caught in one & fall off. The grid will have to double if not triple it's capacity and during things like earth quakes there will be no mass transport .
We have been trialing battery busses and while the customers really like them because they are quiet and don't shake. again battery capacity is the big problem.
Li batteries like to be run down to 10 - 20 % before recharging which means on longer runs a recharge mid run or top them up at every terminus stop.
To get the maximum life from the current Li batteries they need to be recharged as few times as possible and only charged to around 90 %
Even then most busses would require 2 if not more charges a day so the battery life will be down to around the 3 to 5 year mark which will make them 2 times more expensive to run as diesel powered busses
OTOH converting busses will make a bigger difference to emissions than private cars as down here most go through 200 gallons of diesel every day and in Sydney alone there is 210,000 busses.
People have a funny idea about emissions
In Sydney there is around 1,250.000 cars on the road each working day, but those vehicles , excluding the 20,000 taxis are only on the road for a couple of hours in the morning & afternoon where as the busses and delivery vans are on the road all day every day and there are close to 500,000 of them.
Which brings me back to the original point I was making
Private EV's are nothing but virtue signaling by the wealthy ( usually ) to pretend they are better than the plebs where as they are the biggest part of the problem.
And Musk is just a show man concerned with nothing else other than lining his pockets at the expense of every other person & the planet itself .

BudLight said:

Do they get to continue their use to end of life, or will they all be abandoned along the highway?

Click to expand...

It is my understanding that the date is for sale of new vehicles only and they will continue to use the roads for decades to come.

enigma-2 said:

It is my understanding that the date is for sale of new vehicles only and they will continue to use the roads for decades to come.

Click to expand...

Well that’s confusing because I thought that older trucks (pre-2011) were already banned unless their engines were modified to meet emission standards met by the newer trucks. Actually what they’re doing is refusing to provide them with registrations (tags).

The current CARB regs require the newer engine on trucks over a certain weight (think it was 10k but don't hold me to that) by the end of next year. (And I believe that there are exceptions for low milage trucks. Think it was something low like 1k miles/yr.). I think your right about not being able to register an older truck with an older engine.

The new regs mandate zero-emission vehicles. As I read it, it only applied to vehicles sold. And even then it only applies to half of the fleet sold, although that increases each year to 100%. I don't remember reading that existing vehicles (other that those already governed under current CARB rules) be removed. But in 20 years there won't be many left. (And good luck selling them inside CA).

bertsmobile1 said:

That is in fact a little less damaging than using gas or coal as you are consuming the energy that fell on the plant in recient times , not what has bee squirled away umpteen million years ago
This is the problem with the empathise on CO2
CO2 IS NOT THE PROBLEM
Heat imbalance is the problem, and CO2 only plays a tiny part of it
The combined heat from the sun + what we make is more than can get radiated out overnight so we just keep on getting hotter .
A very big ( in fact bigger ) part of the problem is all of the heat that falls on land that no longer has any plants growing on it
The plants convert the heat into chemical energy which is used to make mass , cellulose , basically according to the famous E=MC 2 equation backwards
Get a thermometer and read the temperature inside your house, outside your house, on the driveway, on the lawn, on the lawn and if available under trees and the tree canopy itself.
Do it at midday and midnight
Good chance even at midnight the road & driveway will still be hotter than the grass and the air so will still be radiating heat into the atmosphere .
As such, solar is the winner hands down as it directly converts the sun's energy into electricity = plus some waste heat but in the morning your solar panel will be quite cold while your tile roof will still be hotter than the surrounding air.
But like idiots in place of putting them in cities to reduce the heat sink effect of all of the concrete we cut down forests and build solar farms which are far less efficient in adsorbing solar energy than a forest is and buggers up water cycles as well.
But putting cells on city & urban roofs makes it hard ( near impossible ) to balance the power grid & ever harder to run the network & make you pay for power so the electricity supply company has little to sell but all of the costs of maintaining the grid ( a lot more expensive than most would believe )/
Add to that solar panels on the roof keep the house cooler and cooling uses a lot more energy than heating and remember all of the cold inside adds more heat outside so makes the city hotter for longer so the air conditioning is on all night .
Large scale rapid breeder power stations were a BS idea from day one
Their prime purpose was to generate scrap plutonium that was cheaply converted into atomic warheads.
Take that away and the plants are by & large uneconomic as the power sold never covers the construction & maintenance costs let alone the proper disposal of the waste .
Pebble bed & liquid salt reactors are economic to run and in particular the liquid salt reactors are 100 safe because if the reactor fails the salt solidifies and reaction stops so the only danger is ionizing the air which is not really a problem that is easy to overcome ( dump lead oxide, Boron oxide , waste plutonium granules or any one of a squillion dense materials .)
So if burning coal is a 10 then gas would be a 6 and fresh cut wood would be a the burning of wood (biomass). You said it's not

Click to expand...

bertsmobile1 said:

That is in fact a little less damaging than using gas or coal as you are consuming the energy that fell on the plant in recient times , not what has bee squirled away umpteen million years ago
This is the problem with the empathise on CO2
CO2 IS NOT THE PROBLEM
Heat imbalance is the problem, and CO2 only plays a tiny part of it
The combined heat from the sun + what we make is more than can get radiated out overnight so we just keep on getting hotter .
A very big ( in fact bigger ) part of the problem is all of the heat that falls on land that no longer has any plants growing on it
The plants convert the heat into chemical energy which is used to make mass , cellulose , basically according to the famous E=MC 2 equation backwards
Get a thermometer and read the temperature inside your house, outside your house, on the driveway, on the lawn, on the lawn and if available under trees and the tree canopy itself.
Do it at midday and midnight
Good chance even at midnight the road & driveway will still be hotter than the grass and the air so will still be radiating heat into the atmosphere .
As such, solar is the winner hands down as it directly converts the sun's energy into electricity = plus some waste heat but in the morning your solar panel will be quite cold while your tile roof will still be hotter than the surrounding air.
But like idiots in place of putting them in cities to reduce the heat sink effect of all of the concrete we cut down forests and build solar farms which are far less efficient in adsorbing solar energy than a forest is and buggers up water cycles as well.
But putting cells on city & urban roofs makes it hard ( near impossible ) to balance the power grid & ever harder to run the network & make you pay for power so the electricity supply company has little to sell but all of the costs of maintaining the grid ( a lot more expensive than most would believe )/
Add to that solar panels on the roof keep the house cooler and cooling uses a lot more energy than heating and remember all of the cold inside adds more heat outside so makes the city hotter for longer so the air conditioning is on all night .
Large scale rapid breeder power stations were a BS idea from day one
Their prime purpose was to generate scrap plutonium that was cheaply converted into atomic warheads.
Take that away and the plants are by & large uneconomic as the power sold never covers the construction & maintenance costs let alone the proper disposal of the waste .
Pebble bed & liquid salt reactors are economic to run and in particular the liquid salt reactors are 100 safe because if the reactor fails the salt solidifies and reaction stops so the only danger is ionizing the air which is not really a problem that is easy to overcome ( dump lead oxide, Boron oxide , waste plutonium granules or any one of a squillion dense materials .)
So if burning coal is a 10 then gas would be a 6 and fresh cut wood would be a 5

Click to expand...

The harvesting of wood (biomass) does the very thing you mentioned: Reduces the land of growing trees which absorb the Sun's heat. It's also less energy dense than coal, oil, or nat. gas, that is taken from the ground, so is much, much less efficient at energy production.

gamma_ray said:

The harvesting of wood (biomass) does the very thing you mentioned: Reduces the land of growing trees which absorb the Sun's heat. It's also less energy dense than coal, oil, or nat. gas, that is taken from the ground, so is much, much less efficient at energy production.

Click to expand...

No arguement with that at all Ray .
The difference only comes in if the forest that was cut is allowed to regrow as young trees sequest a lot more carbon than older trees do
Also because the wood is less energy dense you are actually using more of that energy and putting less waste heat up the flue , called "silly heat ".
SO if you are burning wood that could have been used for lumber then it is a backwards step
If you are burning wood that is waste then it is a forward step as if left to rot the bacteria will produce a lot of methane which is a lot worse than CO2

bertsmobile1 said:

No arguement with that at all Ray .
The difference only comes in if the forest that was cut is allowed to regrow as young trees sequest a lot more carbon than older trees do
Also because the wood is less energy dense you are actually using more of that energy and putting less waste heat up the flue , called "silly heat ".
SO if you are burning wood that could have been used for lumber then it is a backwards step
If you are burning wood that is waste then it is a forward step as if left to rot the bacteria will produce a lot of methane which is a lot worse than CO2

Click to expand...

Numerous paper mills burning the wood byproducts in their multi fuel boilers and obtaining carbon credits as well.

Cow farts.
Much more potent than carbon dioxide.

enigma-2 said:

Cow farts.
Much more potent than carbon dioxide.

Click to expand...

Only if you are a vegan and totally willing to ignore ALL other farts
There are over 1,000,000 fewer elephants in existance than at the turn of the previous century and they farted too , as do people, horses , dogs cats , birds, and every other animal on the planet but apparently only beef & dairy cattle farts are a problem , all the others are OK .
And while you are there the bacteria that produce the alcohol fart methane too so lets ban all beers wines & spirits, as well as most fermented foods .
Now how many cow farts are equal to an elephant fart ?

Actually cow burps are much more harmful that their farts. Do elephants belch? (I really don't know).
Some scientist calculated that cow belching accounts for 5.5% of all of the greenhouse gasses. (Definitely not a vegan, smile).

Just wait until CA CARB gets around to regulating cows. (And elephants).

The Animal Natural Usage Society or A.N.U.S. will mandate Cows and elephants to comply otherwise pay a belch tax. This of coarse will be fairly applied on a sliding-scale percentage rate based on how much vegetation and foraging land that they have in their territory. If they don't pay the tax to offset their belches and farts, their land will be confiscated until they can only forage for enough food to minimize natural gas production. This land and/or tax will of coarse go to the donkeys.

enigma-2 said:

Actually cow burps are much more harmful that their farts. Do elephants belch? (I really don't know).
Some scientist calculated that cow belching accounts for 5.5% of all of the greenhouse gasses. (Definitely not a vegan, smile).

Just wait until CA CARB gets around to regulating cows. (And elephants).

Click to expand...

Burps are mostly methane & farts are methane & sulphur compounds so farts are actually more dangerous.
And that scientist was doing research probably funded buy the nut meat & almond milk foundation.
5.5 % of world emissions is a massive number even it is has been multiplied out to account for greater green house effect of methane as compared to CO2.
And if it was done using USA cows in feed lots fed on corn mash then will only apply to 2 % of world cattle.
Aust cattle are all pasture animals with a very small percentage finished off for a month on grain ( not corn ) to obtain the fat marbeling required for Japan.
Not done for exports to the USA because they go to Mexico to be processed for local consumption or hamburger mince & pet food for USA consumption
Brazil comes in second to the USA & again all pasture fed
Argentina the next biggest beef producer also are mostly pasture fed .
EU dairy cattle are again pasture fed when there is grass and hay fed during winer .
EU beef cattle are also pasture fed in summer and fed on a mash of pumpkin , grains & hay over winter
Asian cattle are all pasture fed
No idea about Soviet or Chinese cattle but again I doubt they are fed on corn mash
Australia has 10% of the worlds cattle
But our total emission are under 2 % of the worlds emissions and cattle ( cows & sheep ) account for 13% of that so we are talking about .26 %
So those numbers are highly suspect, particularly when you take into account that we have 10 times more sheep than cattle and sheep poo nuggets that tend to make them fart a lot.

Considering the massive heard of buffalo that traversed the entire American continent for thousands of years, I find it hard to believe the methane rubbish.
All that this rubbish shows is that we are yet to understand the natural methane cycle of the planet.
If this was not the case then the planets atmosphere would have methane levels way over 10%

bertsmobile1 said:

Considering the massive heard of buffalo that traversed the entire American continent for thousands of years, I find it hard to believe the methane rubbish.

Click to expand...

From what I've read, science has a very good idea of the condition of the earth during the time when millions of buffaloes roamed the plains. At that time there also trillions of trees covering the planet, absorbing the excess CO2.

The record was written in the Artic ice. Core samples clearly show the condition of the atmosphere dating back millions of years.

All that changed with the start of the industrial revolution. The burning of huge amounts of coal, cutting down the vast forests and the the conversion of buring oil to heat homes and factories followed by the the use of gasoline by automobiles (currently around 1-1/2 BILLION cars on the planet) triggered an unnatural warming that saw Earths temperature rise dramatically over a very short period of time.

We truly are at a preparous of change.

Concerning agriculture there is an interesting study that found:

"Five meat and dairy companies emit more emissions than major oil companies, study finds

Together, the five largest meat and dairy corporations (JBS, Tyson, Cargill, Dairy Farmers of America and Fonterra) are already responsible for more annual greenhouse gas emissions than ExxonMobil, Shell or BP, a new study released on Wednesday (18 July) warns."

My first question is always ,"who paid for the research & from what institution ?"
Remember for 20 years creditable scientists produced studies showing how compound analgesics were beneficial to our health
And then there was all the research that showed smoking cigarettes was good for your health.
The time when billions of buffalo roamed the Americas was only 300 years ago by which time most of the great forests of Europe and North Africa had already been felled for fuel , building materials & weapons .
Any paper that shows named company A is worse than named company B is generally propaganda usually funded by company B or some one with a beef against company A .
Then you have the problem of comparing oranges to pineapples so you would need to have a very careful look at what was in & what was out of those figures .

And of course all of these require "THEM" to amend their wicked ways
We already know that the biggest single cause of environmental change is land clearing and forrest removal, so how about limiting all houses to a 1 acre block unless it is a formal garden or food producing space with the liberated land to be consolodated back into urban forest .
Think of the millions of ZTR's that would no longer be needed to be made, let alone all the emissions saved
Then large engines can go, no normal human needs the sort of massive engined vehicles produced mostly in the USA .
Australia is the same sized country as the USA and down here a big engine is 4 litres fitted to vehicles designed to tow
The new fully imported range have engines up to 10 litres which is twice the size of the 20 ton excavator we used to have
High speed rail to replace the interstates and in particular flying which dumps millions of gallons of unburned jet A1 into the air every single day

Now I am not anti vegan but I am yet to find one who understands the nutrient cycle and can explain where all of the phosphorus & potassium is going to come from to fertilize all of their Mung beans and almond milk trees without reprocessing all of their own poo.

I listened to a paper ( I listen to a lot of papers ) where the speaker was trying to establish that a litre of milk took 300 litres of water to make as if the water needed to grow the grass & what the cows drank vanished inside the cow . Again the fact that the water got returned to the soil in the form of urine that contained minerals essential for the grass to grow sort of excaped his arguement and the water that the grass used to grow was either transpired back into the atmosphere to fall as rain again or runs off into creeks , streams & rivers .
Never the less it was a good paper with lots of pie diagrams , graphs & charts and proved that drinking beer was better for the planet than drinking milk Which was good enough for me to buy a case of Coopers on the way home guilt free .

It is not surprising that the influx of small off-road gas engines, including lawnmowers and chainsaws in the country has decreased. I was hoping that if I buy this equipment out of state, and already wanted to order a lawn mower, however, my friend is a lawyer who works as an online consultant on https://www.erasethecase.com/about-expungement-lawyers / advised me not to do this, since equipment imported into the state from outside is also subject to a fine and is prohibited in the state. I was hoping that I could pull off such a scam, but unfortunately I'm not ready to sue the whole state for some kind of lawn mower.

I am editing this because in looking up how CARB handled it vs how they originally portrayed they would, in my opinion CARB punted last winter. By 2024 - 2028 small engines will have to be zero emission (like cars, with catalytic and FI etc) or electric. It will just drive up engine cost and complexity. Older devices can still be used and sold off the shelf but not imported. On top of the projected 50% loss of global trade due to the Ukraine War, both parties now considering China to be a threat, current inflation numbers, and coming uprisings due to projected food shortages later this year as Ukraine cannot produce this year, I see gardener prices going way up. Commercial properties and cities will just have to budget for the higher costs. I think ultimately the public will nix this craziness when they get the bill, and it is coming big time.

My Neice & her daughter recently moved out of Cali, she had enough, junkies on street shooting dope etc.. Not ideal for raising my grand-niece.
She moved out East to NC, so close enough to visit me & my woman, & enough room to do her thing. She has her horses & animals.. I'm thrilled she made the move..

most sane people want out of here. We'd sell but there are a couple things not solved yet that hold us back. One is the other half min years for retirement. All in all, if you live most days in your cave no one but the cave bears will bother you.

10% for the big guy

NJ isn't going to be far behind as a few of our POL's are working on a law to ban ICE powered leaf blowers and chain saws,

Yep
ban IC engines on all garden tool to reduce the CO2 production
and if every tool was used for 1 hour every day the total pollution saved would be about 1 hours worth of CO2 from the capitals airport
OTOH banning the tools is good for Walmart , Lowes, HF etc because they will make a fortune selling you battery powered tools for 3 to 5 times what they paid for them in China and of course the service life will be so low you will be buying a new one every 3 to 5 years, none of them are repairable and then there is the disposal of the Li batteries , most of which will end up in warehouses till they "accidentially" catch fire, or will be exported to a third world country where they will pollute the air, water & oceans while killing hundreds of the children who will be doing the work pulling them apart .
Really going to save the planet ?
No it will accelerate the destruction of the planet
But it makes beaurocrats appear to be doing something and of course makes the USA Billionars even more billions

bertsmobile1 said:

... selling you battery powered tools for 3 to 5 times what they paid for them in China ...

Click to expand...

Just remember- batteries are just expensive gas tanks. You still need to burn something or blow on something to get the electricity to fill the battery.

Look up pics of how china gets the precious metals to make their "environmentally friendly" batteries. They have farms of chemicals(the kind that is toxic that EPA won't let u do here) to extract the lithium, nickel, etc. This surely contributes to china admitting just about every water source is rated as toxic\undrinkable.
Yes, it is just another 'out of site, out of mind' solution for the environmentalists.

When I tell people that EV are substantially dirtier than an IC I get howled down .
Then you have to explain the complex chemistry of mining and refining Li & Co to people who can not understand how Na & Cl , both poisons come together to make table salt .
The fact remains that making an EV will generate the about same amount of pollution as making 200 to 300 conventional cars ( depends upon how much aluminium & composites are used ) .
Very few EV's will have a service life exceeding 10 years and in use this an go down as low as 5 years if you use the air conditiner a lot then the battery replacements will be more than 1/2 the price of buying a new vehicle .
Green energy is only light green as again there is a lot of pollution that is generated by making solar panels & wind generators all of which have short working lives , then there are transmission losses in getting the power to where it is needed .
Roof top solar ( which is what we should be using ) makes regulating the grid difficult as all of them were designed to be a one way system so we cut down forest to build solar panel farms or build them over old pasture thus removing large amounts of CO2 converting vegetation ( which always gets overlooked ) in the calculations .

Ev's and E-tools are convienant but they are not nor will they ever be clean
All they do is shift the pollution from your back yard to some one elses .

Japan & China plus to a lesser extent the EU have the right idea
Bullet trains powered by the cleanest possible power will do 10,000 times more to reduce CO2 pollution than electric mowers car or chainsaws .
Even better still they allow workers to commute large distances very quickly & cheaply so city sizes can be constrained and forests surrounding cities can be maintained which is vital for several reasons .
But of course that would mean the very , very , very, very, very very rich could not continue to put your money into their pockets by continually buying land on the rural outskirts & convert it into unliveable suburbs that create massive traffic problems & require enormouse amounts of energy to heat & cool

bertsmobile1 said:

When I tell people that EV are substantially dirtier than an IC I get howled down .
Then you have to explain the complex chemistry of mining and refining Li & Co to people who can not understand how Na & Cl , both poisons come together to make table salt .
The fact remains that making an EV will generate the about same amount of pollution as making 200 to 300 conventional cars ( depends upon how much aluminium & composites are used ) .
Very few EV's will have a service life exceeding 10 years and in use this an go down as low as 5 years if you use the air conditiner a lot then the battery replacements will be more than 1/2 the price of buying a new vehicle .
Green energy is only light green as again there is a lot of pollution that is generated by making solar panels & wind generators all of which have short working lives , then there are transmission losses in getting the power to where it is needed .
Roof top solar ( which is what we should be using ) makes regulating the grid difficult as all of them were designed to be a one way system so we cut down forest to build solar panel farms or build them over old pasture thus removing large amounts of CO2 converting vegetation ( which always gets overlooked ) in the calculations .

Ev's and E-tools are convienant but they are not nor will they ever be clean
All they do is shift the pollution from your back yard to some one elses .

Japan & China plus to a lesser extent the EU have the right idea
Bullet trains powered by the cleanest possible power will do 10,000 times more to reduce CO2 pollution than electric mowers car or chainsaws .
Even better still they allow workers to commute large distances very quickly & cheaply so city sizes can be constrained and forests surrounding cities can be maintained which is vital for several reasons .
But of course that would mean the very , very , very, very, very very rich could not continue to put your money into their pockets by continually buying land on the rural outskirts & convert it into unliveable suburbs that create massive traffic problems & require enormouse amounts of energy to heat & cool

Click to expand...

I have a few rechargeable hand tools, hand drills mostly. They are non-polluting power tools. Electric power, so no exhaust smoke from them. Well, maybe just a little. (well,maybe an ENORMOUS amount, both smoke and ash.)

SamB said:

I have a few rechargeable hand tools, hand drills mostly. They are non-polluting power tools. Electric power, so no exhaust smoke from them. Well, maybe just a little.

Click to expand...

At least this guy is honest:
Tesla owner uses generator to recharge

upupandaway said:

At least this guy is honest:
Tesla owner uses generator to recharge

Click to expand...

i hope that's staged......... but as stupid as some people are these days......

SamB said:

I have a few rechargeable hand tools, hand drills mostly. They are non-polluting power tools. Electric power, so no exhaust smoke from them. Well, maybe just a little.

Click to expand...

No emissions is not no pollution
What do you do with old battery packs ?
Nature can turn the CO2 back into oxygen it cant do that with the battery packs & chargers
Then there is the question of how the electricity is generated

So agin all it does is shift the pollution from one place to another
So use them because they are convienant but don't for one second think your actions are saving the planet because they are still contributing to our extinction.
Lucky for me the end of the planet will be after my life on it is over but kids born today will be very lucky to live to my age .

Just wait Cal is going after the vehicles too if this Foxnews article is to be believed.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-ban-sale-gas-diesel-vehicles-2035-gavin-newsom

Scrubcadet10 said:

i hope that's staged......... but as stupid as some people are these days......

Click to expand...

I was looking for another video where there is some shindig where there were 4 Teslas charging but couldn't find it. The guy behind the phone showed in disgust where the power cord ran to which was a Caterpillar Diesel Generator, so joke or true- both(plus many more) same point.

Electric car is just another way to skin the cat, it's no panacea.

One way or the other we are screwed...

Here my local electric want me to extra just to support the local solar farm. There is no way to guarantee a portion of my electric used is generated by solar or otherwise. As electrons are the same coming across those electric cables. But maybe they have figured out a way to use DNA to sniff which electrons are solar vs conventional electrons.

Either way I not paying an extra $2 per kilowatt hour for the con job. If I am going to use solar I will install my own system and go off the grid as much as I can.

Down here where nothing exists once you get 100 miles from the coast various state governments are actually rolling out those generator recharging stations .
They are there to allow the townies with their EV's to get between major cities where there is sufficient mains power to run recharge stations.
What we have been told is they are temporary and the data from their use will be used to determine where the new power grid will need to go in order to power the switch over to EV's
Long term the proposed plan is to build massive wind / solar power stations in the outback , destroying thousands of miles of the environment then connect them up to even bigger batteries to power new power grids .
All this to save energy & reduce emissions , perhaps, eventually .
That spin doctor Musk, the greatest con artist since PC Barnham offered to give away a massive battery array if he could not have it up & running within 100 days so now the governments are addicted to massive Li bombs hooked up to the grid because they are quick so the polly standing for re-election can roder one just before election time & get lots of free advertising right before we vote .
For those who do not know a Li battery will explode when it goes over critical temperature and that is between 80 & 90 deg C .
This is why so many Teslas burst into flames after a collision cooking the occupants because without battery power you can not unlock or open the doors nor open the windows .
Rocks in the desert getup to 150 C in high summer so the battery will be using more power keeping itself cool when running than it will be supplying power into the grid.

bertsmobile1 said:

This is why so many Teslas burst into flames after a collision cooking the occupants because without battery power you can not unlock or open the doors nor open the windows .

Click to expand...

2 people burned in up in a tesla after they wrapped it around tree in a town not far from me, Took several hours for Firefighters to put out the battery fire... evidently regular foam doesn't work on it.

A Li battery is a bomb and terrorist will quickly lean this
The reaction is a strait redox reaction
However the fuel & the oxadizing agent are both in the battery
In a normal fire, the fuel is burned by the oxygen in the air
In the battery the oxadizing agent is in the battery so it does not require air to "burn" .
Putting foam on a fire deprives it of air but if air is not needed then the foam does nothing
Same story with water, get one burning and you can toss it in a lake & it will continue burning till there is nothing left to burn.

And Musk want you to put one on the wall of your house

Li batteries are a wonderful technology and are perfect for applications where you have low power drain and are weight & space restricted
Hearing aids, body inplants , calculators , LED torches , Computers .
Hand held power tools , robot vacuum / mowers , are pushing the limits of their practicability
Using them in cars is plain stupid and after a couple of babies secured in their crash proof pods on the back seat of some EV get nicely roasted ,,,well done then there will be a massive change of attitude to them
By that Time Musk will have used his ill gotten gains to have bought several other businesses , and sold down his shareholding in Tesla so the new share holders will be stuck with the liability claims .
His extravagent performances have embedded into peoples minds so deep that most will not even believe that the batteries are dangerous & claim people like me are stooges for oil companies .
Hydrogen is far safer and has a higher energy density that Li batteries ever will
It is the perfect fuel for transport but every time it gets a mention you instantly get back refferences to the horror of the Hindenburg so no one wants to be within 10 miles of a hydrogen powered vehicle.

Better suited for heavy transport like busses trucks & trains , marginally better for cars due to distribution difficulties .
Shipping should all be nuclear : electric powered by a liquid salt reactor which the USA abandoned so Nixon could have loads of scrap plutonium to make bombs with and the Chinese have just about perfected .

hydrogen and natural gas are very light and you need a lot of them to get the same distance as with hydro carbon fuels. Hydrogen can be made from seawater but it takes energy to do that. Everything takes energy. The best solution right now for environmentally friendly is a catalytic process the Swiss have that turns free CO2 into Ethanol with just a little energy. One uses a scrubber to pull CO2 from the air and ethanol is the byproduct. Right now that looks more friendly than corn based ethanol. Frankly, in my opinon, we are probably 200 years from all this technology being in working form. I have yet to see the first bullet train that the state of California spent billions on starting back in 2008. Right now, 14 years later after we were told they were ready to rock and roll on building it if we gave them the funds, they are still working on the specifics of the first 119 miles in the central valley. That says nothing about getting over the mountains and last time I read they were talking about using Amtrak buses for that like they do now on the Central Valley route. Freight trains pass thru Techachpi, over into Mojave, then work into LA from there in a circuitous route. Coastal trains don't service the Central Valley. Based on how California does things, we will all be in the grave for a long time before all these new laws and unicorn dreams actually come to pass, if they ever do at all. Usually when someone published a paper on the corruption and problems, it turns out that some wealthy investment bankers are involved in supporting the DNC here, and the state keeps doing things that keep funds headed their way. That is what we see, and it is a perfect loop of one hand washing the other. I have yet to see any feasible way that cars or small engines will be totally replaced with electric. My other half's boss has an electric car and I am told that it spends more time in the shop than it is driven.

The weight is not directly proportional to the energy content and the 2H2 + O2 => 2H2O is a very powerful reaction.
Most of the big diesel engine makers are actually running H2 engines, Cat definately has some & JCB are partnering with Fortesque Mining down here to convert all of the iron ore trains to Hydrogen power .
At the moment I think they have only 1 hydrogen train and around 50 hydrogen powered excavators working on the mine site.
All of the big dumpers are due to be replaced with hydrogen powered engines & a new solar hydrogen plant to provide the hydrogen is currently being built .
And in a touch of irony one of our Lithium miners is also using hydrogen powered vehicles to mine the lithium and they are also building an on site hydrogen generator which is suppose to be solar powered to make green lithium for EV's
And of course they all say they are doing it to "save the planet " but the truth is converting to hydrogen will drop their fuel cost down 60 % so for the mines we a talking several millions every year and if they generate their own hydrogen the savings go as high as 85 % .
Hydrogen liquifies just like LPG does .
The only real problem is the H2 molecule is tiny so keeping everything sealed is the big problem .
Add to that , because there is no carbon to contaminate the oil with particulate matter the engines almost never need an oil change if they run their oil at ( or near ) 100 deg C to prevent the water contaminating the oil .
You never hear about it because the circus performer Musk is always getting himself & tesla in prime time news broadcasts .

The simple fact is there is not enough copper known to exist on the planet to replace every IC vehicle with an EV and there is serious doubt about there being enough Cobalt as well, and these predictions include mining all of the nodules copper from the ocean floors and reprocessing all of the old copper mine waste to recover the 0.1% that was uneconomic to recover 20 years ago plus a copper recycling rate of over 90% which currently stands at around 20% .

Do a search for hydrogen powered piston engines and you will be amazed at how far advanced they are , mainly because all that was needed was adjustments to existing technology to accomodate a new fuel .
The hydrogen turbine is a little way off but apparently there are some trials happening with locomotives where the diesel electric engines have been replaced with a hydrogen powered turbine & higher voltage generator .

Bert - I had the privilege of working on a hydrogen powered pickup truck as long ago as 1979, and worked for CalEPA for 15 years. Well acquainted with all the alternative energy vehicles. Most of the hydrogen ones now use a fuel cell. And yes, containing the hydrogen is a hard part of it. The molecule is so small it escapes easily thru steel and aluminum containers. That said I have zero confidence that anyone has yet found an alternative energy source that is as reliable as fossil fuels. There are some well written papers out there on how we can deal with the excess CO2 in the air but the solutions are too easy and don't generate tax revenue.

sgkent said:

Bert - I had the privilege of working on a hydrogen powered pickup truck as long ago as 1979, and worked for CalEPA for 15 years. Well acquainted with all the alternative energy vehicles. Most of the hydrogen ones now use a fuel cell. And yes, containing the hydrogen is a hard part of it. The molecule is so small it escapes easily thru steel and aluminum containers. That said I have zero confidence that anyone has yet found an alternative energy source that is as reliable as fossil fuels. There are some well written papers out there on how we can deal with the excess CO2 in the air but the solutions are too easy and don't generate tax revenue.

Click to expand...

Fuel cells for small vehicles where weight & space are at a premium
Direct burning of H2 where they are not
and of course turbines &generators where weight is an advantage like rail engines .

The most simple solution to pollution is to mandate a 20 year minimum service life on all consumer durable items .
But it won't happen because money talks and there is way too much easy money to be made by making trash with a short life span.
It also requires the public to be better educated.
In the EU for instance lawn tools all have to have their "durability index " clearly stated on their labels & displayed on the POS literature.
Items with a very low durability index get a higher sales tax ( called an environmental levy ) to change the price differential between junk & quality .
Thus I am able to show customers that their "professional grade " power tool bought off the web is actually junk & not worth repairing.
For instance the engine used on a lot of ebay / amazon only brands of line trimers is rated at 25 hours continueous use before it is no longer EPA compliant and a total service life of 50 hours .

My service van is 33 years old , my fridge is also 33 years old ( bought used & then repaired ) , the freezer is 41 and has been regased plus fitted with a new set of door seals My daily ride motorcycle is 75 years old and if I want to do bigger mileage then I use the "young " one that is only 40 years old .
The amount of pollution generated by keeping it on the road is less than 5% of what is generated making a new one .

Then there is the totally artificial nuclear family invented post WWII to encourage a massive increase in consumer demand for houses & household items .
Time to have a big rethink about all of the social & environmental created by the abandonment of the extended family .
Simply reverting to extended family living would reduce annual pollution by nearly 40% let alone domestic violence , mental problems from isolation and even radicalization because we would be in bigger family units , also makes living vastly cheaper as you are not forced into a situation where you spend better than 1/3 of your total income just keeping a roof over your head .
So you have more of your income to spend on better quality, higher ticket priced , long life goods .
Thus you don't perpetually need more income so inflation , which was invented to protect the value of the assets of the asset rich over time & is purely artifical gets reduced .
Right now a massive house that is just short of environmental vandalism in Sydney on a tiny block of land so the dog has to live inside the house and there is no outside yard space for kids to play or to grow veggies in that needs 24/7 airconditioning because there are no trees near the houses costs 6 times the gross household income and if paid off over the std 25 years will cost 15 years total house hold income and a vast number of people are just hanging on waiting for grandparents to die hoping to get an inheritance to pay down the debt .
However if this happens the bottom would drop out of the home loan finance industry and there is no way any government will allow that to happen

In my AO California is called "Commiefornia" and for good reason.

Guarantee you the elites are exempt and their illegal alien landscapers will continue using whatever they want to mow their yards. Unless a Leftie supports vastly expanded nuclear power generation, they are deluding themselves about non-carbon based energy production.

I've been following this technology for about 7 or 8 years. I believe that the Swiss were the first to figure it out.

Yes they have been talking about his for decades
As of yesterday no one has actually cracked it and I seriously doubt any one ever will but it is always worth doing the research because the more we look the more we see & hopefully understand.
The idea of pumping it underground does not fix anything, it creates an even bigger problem for the future .
The carbonate rock plan is very energy intensive as you have to grind the basalt vert very fine and get it very hot.
Plus the carbonate rock will happily revert
Had not heard of the synthetic gas idea and that has promise but again it is going to consume more energy than it will produce when burned so it is a nett loss system and less energy efficient than distilling H2 from the air then burning it back into water and that has been around since the 60's but again is yet to be energy positive by the time you look at the energy to make the solar cells
The new solar cells that are based on synthetic crystals might make it feasible , but they are at least 5 years off commercialization.
The crunch is there is simpilly too many people on the planet & not enough trees .
Add to that a small percentage of those too many people are consuming way above the sustainable limits.
This is basically because all of the plans are based on continuing expansion which just can not happen unless you are an economist .
We used to call these things pyramid schemes and we banned them because like a Ponzie scheme eventually the bulk of people get burned.
Most of the industralists have more money than they could spend even if they took weekly trips into outer space .\
the solution is
1) Reduce
2) Repair
3) Reuse
4) Recycle
But the "right" people won't make another billion a week if that happens so it will not happen till 1/2 the USA is a wasteland where nothing can live.
Note right now it is only just into spring & Arizona is having the fires we had down here last year while we are having the floods that Europe had last year .
And CO2 is only a median player in global warming so just shotting some solar cells on the roof & driving a Tesla will do next to nothing to rectify the problems while we continue to renovate our houses because they "look old or stale " and live in massive houses that require more energy to heat and cool in a week than a village of 200 people in Africa will use in a year .
Then there is stuff like potable water & toilet paper, the Phos that we pump into the oceans from sewerage so it becomes lost to plant production, Calcium that is pulled out of the soil & not replaced plus Potassium because broad acre monocultures destroy the soil but we have been brainwashed that they are the only way we can feed the ever increasing population.

bertsmobile1 said:

Yes they have been talking about his for decades
As of yesterday no one has actually cracked it and I seriously doubt any one ever will but it is always worth doing the research because the more we look the more we see & hopefully understand.
The idea of pumping it underground does not fix anything, it creates an even bigger problem for the future .
The carbonate rock plan is very energy intensive as you have to grind the basalt vert very fine and get it very hot.
Plus the carbonate rock will happily revert
Had not heard of the synthetic gas idea and that has promise but again it is going to consume more energy than it will produce when burned so it is a nett loss system and less energy efficient than distilling H2 from the air then burning it back into water and that has been around since the 60's but again is yet to be energy positive by the time you look at the energy to make the solar cells
The new solar cells that are based on synthetic crystals might make it feasible , but they are at least 5 years off commercialization.
The crunch is there is simpilly too many people on the planet & not enough trees .
Add to that a small percentage of those too many people are consuming way above the sustainable limits.
This is basically because all of the plans are based on continuing expansion which just can not happen unless you are an economist .
We used to call these things pyramid schemes and we banned them because like a Ponzie scheme eventually the bulk of people get burned.
Most of the industralists have more money than they could spend even if they took weekly trips into outer space .\
the solution is
1) Reduce
2) Repair
3) Reuse
4) Recycle
But the "right" people won't make another billion a week if that happens so it will not happen till 1/2 the USA is a wasteland where nothing can live.
Note right now it is only just into spring & Arizona is having the fires we had down here last year while we are having the floods that Europe had last year .
And CO2 is only a median player in global warming so just shotting some solar cells on the roof & driving a Tesla will do next to nothing to rectify the problems while we continue to renovate our houses because they "look old or stale " and live in massive houses that require more energy to heat and cool in a week than a village of 200 people in Africa will use in a year .
Then there is stuff like potable water & toilet paper, the Phos that we pump into the oceans from sewerage so it becomes lost to plant production, Calcium that is pulled out of the soil & not replaced plus Potassium because broad acre monocultures destroy the soil but we have been brainwashed that they are the only way we can feed the ever increasing population.

Click to expand...

In a nutshell..."Too many"! Well put,bertsmobile1.

It comes down to the weird philosophy that maintains that people are some how not part of the natural environment and not another animal in the food chain.
Most people have no problems understanding the concept of over stocking a farm or over grazing a paddock, they can even understand over planting a garden.
Yet they can not understand the same applies to people.
Putin can happily wage war with the Ukrane because he has a heard of 144.000.000 to draw soldiers from so he can afford to loose a few thousand or even a few hundred thousand , although Russia's birth rate is currently negative.
In fact more Russians that die the better off Putin & his cronies are because feeding & educating the population is a drag on the finances which come mostly from mining & broad acre farming neither of which need a lot of people to operate . ( Australia is in the same boat ) .

Even worse is we understand how to best handle cattle , we feed them high quality feed and collect the waste products for reprocessing into fertilizers then when they die we use just about every part .
We feed humans on low grade food that is bad for them & cause a lot of disease because a few people make a lot of money from doing that .
We mostly do not recycle the waste preffering to pollute rivers & oceans with it so it is lost to agriculture and then when we die we still consume vast amounts of the environment for cemeteries which is becoming a massive problem in just about every Western country .

We did survey down here ( wonder how it was done ) a while back about visitations to cemeteries, because just about all of them are full .
Apparently it goes on average some thing like this
10 people visit each grave site for the first 5 years
That drops down to 2 for the next 5 years
The following 5 years it drops to 1 person per 100 plots
and after that is it 1 person for each 2000 plots .
Right now there is a big push to replant all cemeteries with native plants so at least they can become wildlife santuries so serve some useful purpose for the broader community .
The other group want to change the law to allow graves to be exhumed after X number of years and have the remains ground up or to rebury entire families on top of each other to liberate some space and the one I rather thought was smart , to bore round holes so the remains are standing on end and drop the bodies in thus compacting the space required

bertsmobile1 said:

It comes down to the weird philosophy that maintains that people are some how not part of the natural environment and not another animal in the food chain.
Most people have no problems understanding the concept of over stocking a farm or over grazing a paddock, they can even understand over planting a garden.
Yet they can not understand the same applies to people.
Putin can happily wage war with the Ukrane because he has a heard of 144.000.000 to draw soldiers from so he can afford to loose a few thousand or even a few hundred thousand , although Russia's birth rate is currently negative.
In fact more Russians that die the better off Putin & his cronies are because feeding & educating the population is a drag on the finances which come mostly from mining & broad acre farming neither of which need a lot of people to operate . ( Australia is in the same boat ) .

Even worse is we understand how to best handle cattle , we feed them high quality feed and collect the waste products for reprocessing into fertilizers then when they die we use just about every part .
We feed humans on low grade food that is bad for them & cause a lot of disease because a few people make a lot of money from doing that .
We mostly do not recycle the waste preffering to pollute rivers & oceans with it so it is lost to agriculture and then when we die we still consume vast amounts of the environment for cemeteries which is becoming a massive problem in just about every Western country .

We did survey down here ( wonder how it was done ) a while back about visitations to cemeteries, because just about all of them are full .
Apparently it goes on average some thing like this
10 people visit each grave site for the first 5 years
That drops down to 2 for the next 5 years
The following 5 years it drops to 1 person per 100 plots
and after that is it 1 person for each 2000 plots .
Right now there is a big push to replant all cemeteries with native plants so at least they can become wildlife santuries so serve some useful purpose for the broader community .
The other group want to change the law to allow graves to be exhumed after X number of years and have the remains ground up or to rebury entire families on top of each other to liberate some space and the one I rather thought was smart , to bore round holes so the remains are standing on end and drop the bodies in thus compacting the space required

Click to expand...

Sometimes,it's just too much to read in the time I have,bertsmobile1. Please be advised, EVERY word you post is ALWAYS read by me, sometimes twice(or more). Others would be wise to do so. To sit and share a pint(or two) would be such a pleasure.
Lawn Royalty, indeed! AHTK!

SamB said:

Sometimes,it's just too much to read in the time I have,bertsmobile1. Please be advised, EVERY word you post is ALWAYS read by me, sometimes twice(or more). Others would be wise to do so. To sit and share a pint(or two) would be such a pleasure.
Lawn Royalty, indeed! AHTK!

Click to expand...

We could use a few more Bert's across the globe.

Thanks Sam
I like to communicate with people and even more to see why they think what they think
Having had an engineering & science based education I try to keep an open mind and accept what has been proven to me as fact till proven otherwise .
Starting at college I attended a lot of public lectures , firstly because most were free & had light refreshments afterwards ( I was broke ) , secondly I realized there was a mass of stuff I had no idea about and finally I usually to meet some potential sexual partners there .
Because of this I got a wide education & got exposed to a lot ideas that normally I would have never persued .
Despite having a religious upbringing the church never managed to brain wash me into blind faith and over the years I have come to understand they are all rubbish and were invented by people to assert control over other people using their ignorance of science as the proof.
Even worse most monothiestaic ones are basically the same when you go back a few translations and of course you can translate the same line of text to say love your neighbour or slaughter your neighbour , on of the more interesting parts of translating dead languages.
The meanings we attribute to a word or phrase can easily be totally wrong.
Once upon a time, cool meant cold but now it means popularly acceptiable, deadly used to mean potentially fatal, now it means great etc etc etc
We have now found that there is a "faith" gene so Hawkins got it wrong after all and the dominance of the faith gene makes some people actually need to believe and further more the absence of having some thing to have a blind faith in can cause the people with a strong belief gene quite unhinged .
I have no real objection to religions , except where they become destructive as they are a culture or when they are used to justify a stupid law . like your anti-abortion laws or anti homosexuality laws etc etc .

Scrubcadet10 said:

We could use a few more Bert's across the globe.

Click to expand...

Yes,2 thumbs up to that! (3 if I had 'em!)

Enough fellas.
There is nothing special about me and nothing that you can not do yourself.
Start with dropping your face book news feed because all you will see is what it thinks you want to hear
If you subscribe to a news feed , make sure you add one that is not what you would normally listen to so you get different views .
Listen to public radio, there is a plethoria of them in the USA & Canada so you can get news that is not commercially biased.
Even then ask "Why are they saying that ? "
Always look for the motovation .
Ignore any one who starts rabbiting on about conspiracies by undefined persons.
While there are plenty of them out there, the more people involved the greater the probability that it is just a stuff up followed by a cover up
Remember a good parent teachers their children to read
A wise parent teaches their children to question what they read
Back when I was doing QC we used a thing called certaincy tables .
This is a numerical way of determining if the number of items we sampled could be an accurate refection of the entire batch
I can not remember the number but it was just short of 1500
So any survey , poll, clinical trial etc that had less than 1500 participants can be considered highly suspect
1500 = 99.9 % chance that the results from the sample will be the same as the entire batch
1400 ≈ 75 %
1200 ≈ 50 %
Note this assumes a very large group and that your sample was in fact random to start with and not biased (as all political polls are )
So all of those "Clinical trials" that prove some new wonder drug is good can be considered to be nothing more than advertising BS if the trial was not of 1500 or more .
And don't be afraid to change your mind
One of Einstiens little sayings that seems to no longer be fashionable was "The only way to prove you have a mind is to change it regularly when presented with PROOF to the contry "

Bert, when I head off to bed shortly I will make a special prayer that all your dreams will come true. Until then, hang in there. You are not alone.

upupandaway said:

Cali finally dropped the hammer.
So does this stop people from ordering gas powered equip from outside cali???

Click to expand...

Conversation overheard in Folsom Prison out in California....

"Hey man, what are you in for?"
"Dude, I got busted smuggling in 16 pounds of heroin and I got 6 months in this joint... what about you?"
"Well, I got caught smuggling in parts for gas powered lawn mowers and was sentenced to 14 years hard time "

Y'all may not know it but in an oil conference with a top CA state geologist about 10 years ago we learned something interesting. He said that about 85% of the crude oil produced in CA is actually owned by the state from settlements with oil companies in the early 20th century. My personal theory is that the top dawgs in the state are looking for ways to get income from other energy sources after that oil flow diminishes, which it will because they have been pumping for almost 120 years now in SoCal.

Yep... as they say, it's the land of fruits nuts and flakes

KM Richards said:

Yep... as they say, it's the land of fruits nuts and flakes

Click to expand...

And although they want electric powered "everything", the fruity nuts want to shut down and not replace the Diablo Canyon power Plant.

Well, maybe when there is rationing of electricity where they are "allowed" to have power for maybe 2 to 3 hours a day like they do in some third world countries.... maybe the people will revolt!

If lived there, I'd move to a red state... at least in red states the politicians are slightly less stupid, green, and woke

KM Richards said:

Well, maybe when there is rationing of electricity where they are "allowed" to have power for maybe 2 to 3 hours a day like they do in some third world countries.... maybe the people will revolt!

If lived there, I'd move to a red state... at least in red states the politicians are slightly less stupid, green, and woke

Click to expand...

But if they revolt(I know they are already revolting!),but what are they going to revolt with? Throw pies? That pesky Anti 2A thing,you know.

Maybe the women will go on strike and refuse to put out

KM Richards said:

Maybe the women will go on strike and refuse to put out
View attachment 60573

Click to expand...

Well ,in CA,it may be difficult to define "women". Just saying.

Yeah, I forgot about that... now, I hear the liberals are claiming men can get pregnant!

So if you go on a date, make sure she wears protection!

KM Richards said:

Yeah, I forgot about that... now, I hear the liberals are claiming men can get pregnant!

So if you go on a date, make sure she wears protection!
View attachment 60575

Click to expand...

Hell I can't get the doctor understand that I am pregnant. Or at least I keep checking yes to the question of the forms. "are you pregnant? yes/no"

I have found a way to keep those that complain about me wearing a mask. I just tell them I have TB and they just run for the doors. My TB is Two Belly disease but they think it is something else. I have noticed I not sneezing as much as the mask cuts down on the pollen.

Skirtstrider said:

Hmmm, I don't understand why they took this decision. On top of that, for people who already have these kinds of machines, what should they do with them? I don't think it's fair to impose them on getting rid of these machines. On top of that, if you use a good lawyer with all the points mentioned in this article: https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/nft-lawyer-5-things-you-must-consider-6066459/, I am sure you can prove to the judge that no one can dictate you not to use something you have in your house.

Click to expand...

It is to pretend they are doing something about air pollution & climate change .
If they don't keep on making up stupid laws some one might think they have no purpose and sack them all.
As I have said many a time, one single jet landing & taking off pumps out more pollution then every chain saw would running all day & night for a week .

StarTech said:

I just tell them I have TB and they just run for the doors. My TB is Two Belly disease but they think it is something else

Click to expand...

That's funny thar, I don't care who'yar!

so a little bird within the state who is involved around these kind of things told me this weekend there are now whisperings within the group of people who should know, that there are warehouses filling up with worn out and damaged EV batteries that no one has figured out what to do with them yet. Everyone keeps promising that the other guy will find a process to recycle them. This is going to be fun.

They can be repaired or refurbished...

KM Richards said:

They can be repaired or refurbished...

Click to expand...

and that is why they are rotting in a warehouse. right.

Yes, you gotta let 'em rot real good before they can be shipped back to china to be repaired or refurbished.

They have to be shipped to china cause... it's work American's aren't allowed to do while slow joe is ruinnin the show YO

They worried bout pollution n stuff here in the US... so they have to go back to china

KM Richards said:

They can be repaired or refurbished...

Click to expand...

Depends upon the construction .
You can replace individual dead cells in a battery pack just the same as we did with Ni-Cd or Ni-Metal hydride battery packs .
However you can not recycle the individual cells on an industrical scale and when you do it is not economic to do except in a third world country using child or slave labour .
They have to be cut very carefully so the separation membrane is not damaged or the battery can & will burst into flame and once burning can not be put out.
The fumes that come off are very toxic so no factory isn the USA will be able to do it because they will not be able to afford the public liability & fire insurance .
SO like old tyres they will be warehoused in vast numbers then there will be some sort of unfortunate accident & they will all burst into flame for months .

Some EV batteries can be dissassembled because EU laws make the original manufacturer responsible for the end of life recycling of what they make .

Almost nothing that we recycle is economic to do so with the sole exception of the lead acid battery which is over 90% recycled .
The only bit than can not be economically reused is the acid and that is only because the world bumps millions of gallons of waste sulphuric acids into the oceans every year that are by products mostly of rubber manufacture and conversions of sulphide ores .
Decades ago there was a movement that quite rightly wanted a tax put on all virgin materials to make their price the same as recycled materials .
This was not for environmental reasons but simply because the first world countries were being burried in their own trash .
But the ultimate answer was again to compact it into very dense cubes & dump it in the deep ocean trenches .

jJust about anything that is made can be unmade or at least broken down enough to be used in some thing else .
The problem is that costs up to 100 times more than making it from virgin materials and we have all been brain washed into believing we have the God given rights to get everything we could possibly want and it will get cheaper all the time .

Now EV batteries will have to be recycled because if every current IC engine is replaced with an EV we would need 2 times the known amount of copper in the planet to make the engines assuming that 100% of all copper used is recovered .
We will need 10 times the known amount of Cobalt in the planet .
Nickel is not so much of a problem if we can work out how to tap lava from some volcanoes to extract the Ni . we know it is there we just do not know how to recover it .
And then there are the rare earths like Niobium , this is one of the things driving President Putin to erradicate the Ukrane as the Donbass region has confirmed Niobium deposits that he wants to get control over having failed to get control over the deposits in Afghanistan that it is looking like China will ultimately get control over .
There is always an economic reason behind every time the West mounts military actions to "protect the locals "

this 1999 tire fire burned for a month. The agency I worked for had a line of tanker trucks waiting to pick up the pyrolytic oil that flows out of a tire when it is heated in a fire. The oil is so bad it makes a superfund site when it gets spilled like that. The land owner collected most of NorCal's used tires starting about 1950 until he had a pile half a mile by half a mile and hundreds of feet thick when lightning hit it in 1999.

Yep
All about shifting money from the pockets of the poor into the pockets of the rich
Either through direct purchases or via taxpayers money handed out to the rich for not doing what they were supposed to do .

And no one wants to look back past yesterday for the cause let alone 5 Presidents ago or even further back .
And no one wants to pay the real price of anything .

As a school child I was terrorised about being hit with a Nuke that will end life on the planet.

In reality we will die from being smothered in our own waste .
The unfortunate bit is I see no chance of a recovery , it is just matter of time till we exterminate ourselves .
Hopefully I will be long gone before that happens but I seriously doubt a child born today will have a habitual planet by the time they get to my age.
And even worse it is all driven by greed and that goes from my greed to the immensly greedy like Bezos , Musk & Putin.

bertsmobile1 said:

I was terrorised about being hit with a Nuke that will end life on the planet

Click to expand...

That's why it's good to make reservations on where one will be spending eternity.

That way, if a nuke hits, it's no biggie cause going to where Jesus is at is far better than staying here even if there were no nukes and things were really good here.

No matter how we slice it, we all gonna die someday... nuke or no nukes.

KM Richards said:

That's why it's good to make reservations on where one will be spending eternity.

That way, if a nuke hits, it's no biggie cause going to where Jesus is at is far better than staying here even if there were no nukes and things were really good here.

No matter how we slice it, we all gonna die someday... nuke or no nukes.

Click to expand...

As you seem determined to preach
When you can find any written book that proports to be the "Word of some sort of a God " from any religion that actually has the human reproductive system correctly described and does not call semen the "seed" then you have a 1 in 1,000,000,000 chance of convincing me that there is a God of some sort and all religions are not an invention of man in order for a small number of selected individuals to control the masses without the need for armies or police and the incorrect descriptions were not due to the authors never having seen an ovary and if they did they would not have been able to see human eggs because they are too small
And that goes for any religion with a written text .
Then you have to convince me that the entity that made the entire universe failed to tell his greatest creation to WASH THEIR BLOODY HANDS
You won't because the men who invented religions did not know about things smaller than they could see like bacteria
And I have thousands of factually incorrect descriptions from supposedly the words of the creator faithfully & accurately transcribed by one of their "chosen few " .
All of which relate to things that were unknown at the time , right up to the earth being the center of the universe & everything else revolving around it .
And for your information I have read multiple translations of just about every religious text in existance .

First rule of detecting a con job is anything that requires you to have blind faith that it is true without any way of proving it other than testimonials that can not be verified .
A bible / Tora / Koran text is no different to the last you tube scam add telling me that tinnitus can be cured by buying their pills and the entire medical system is trying to stop them telling me this secret cure .

Like all good cons, every religion starts with a fact that was known to be true in the days when it originated . although many now have been proven wrong as science advances .
Then it finds some one or some thing to blame for the adverse situation the population found themselves ( think President Trump blaiming Mexicans for the lawlessness in the USA for example ) and finally shows the population a cure for their maladies ( the magic elixar that will cure my tinnitus ) or the cruel overlords .
And finally to allow commerce without any worries about the consequences so when a population polluted or over consumed them selves out of existance it was the punishment of the God for the population not following his ( always a he ) word to the letter , except the text is of course not litterial so the "chosen few " can direct you to follow the right rules while reinterpreting the parribles to show you the actual meaning .

Really ?

the rabies who did no actual work to support themselves other than collecting the taxes from the population made a whole lot of predictions in the original text which we like to call the "old Testiment " and when the predictions did not come to pass had to fudge things so a break away group wrote a "new testiment" that was open ended in time frame so could never run out of time for the "return of the Lord ".
Lots of other religions have the same problem, a close study of the Book of Mormon will find they either got the maths wrong or everything is running out of time .
One of the founding fathers of the Church of Latter Day Saints in Australia realized that the whole foundation of the church was factually wrong so he became a hermit and spent the rest of his days on a farm devoid of any machines till he died in 1992 . His unfinished manuscript is ready for publication and should be out in a few years when the court cases are settled .
The Church is claiming intellectual copyrights as it was based on their published material and the case has been in the courts for a very long time as the church is trying to bankrupt the manuscript owner to prevent its publication.

I was at a public lecture on the translation of some of the Dead Sea Scrolls which can be read such as to prove the Jewish religion is all BS .
The Israeli government tried to prevent any work on these 3 scrolls for fear of the outcome .
A very interesting lecture as she went through it word by word noting like any good co job almost every word could have several meanings many of them totally contradictory .
And these "weasal " words were deliberately chosen as the authors could have used words that were unambigious but the deliberately did not do that .

And FWIW go back 3 generations & I have Anglican, Jewish , Catholic , Maori , Hindu & Islamic heritage & have relations who follow each one of them .
In my youth I had Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic & Presperterian friends and in every case the relevent religious authority figures tried desperately to break up this circle demanding that we all stay within our faith circles lest we rot in hell and condem our families souls to eternal damnation.
The brothers called my mother "The hoar" and called my siblings "the bastard children of the hoar" right up until the day she died because my father was a catholic & he married mum in an anglican church while the nuns from the convent on the next corner were forbidden from entering the property or speaking to any of my family on threat of being turfed out and these were retired nuns from missionaries in their 70's & 80's with no earthly posessions.
I had a grand aunt who survived the holocost but lived in fear & terror of the rabbis so much she had fitted black out curtains to her house so we could come in without being seen because the church had excommunicated my grandmother because she married a non Jew and her children were brought up Anglican .

so don't try & peddle you brain dead clap trap to me .
If you want to believe in fairy tales and you get comfort from doing that then do so with my blessings but don't preach BS to me as I have a mind and know how to use it .

bertsmobile1 said:

Really ?

Click to expand...

You're obviously not able to understand... sorry.

You are welcome to believe what ever you wish
I have no intention of trying to change your mind or beliefs
Steven Dawkins got it wrong because we have found there is a "god" gene .
It is on the 6th chromosome and depending upon how active it is that will determine how gulliable the person is and how much they will require a meaning and how easily they can be led.
This applies to people who get taken in by just about every scam under the sun , those who seek really deep love but can never find it , the deeply religious & the idology driven .
For the people where this gene is not active, we become the skeptics , who do not form deep attachments , have no problems seeing a scam from 100 yards away and can accept that things are as things are and there does not need to be any meaning to life and definately no after life so realize that people are just another animal on the planet who have managed to become the apex preditors and are now systematically destroying the planet for their own personal greed .
And of course are the only species that are destroying the planet and wiping out other species at a rate of knots because we don't like them or want their real estate
So if you like a my ying to your yang .

If you keep on insisting putting references to your person religious idoligy into the forum then I will always counter it because sneaking in idology where it should not be is a typical trick used by con artists .

KM Richards said:

You're obviously not able to understand... sorry.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I understand, because I believe. ?

KM Richards said:

That's why it's good to make reservations on where one will be spending eternity.

That way, if a nuke hits, it's no biggie cause going to where Jesus is at is far better than staying here even if there were no nukes and things were really good here.

No matter how we slice it, we all gonna die someday... nuke or no nukes.

Click to expand...

I have seen the light. For those of you who doubt, like Thomas, I don't understand it but it is real.

Looks like a case of "you do you and i will do me" situation going on. Everyone has their views on politics and religion. I doubt that anyone will change anyone's mind debating it on a lawnmower repair forum.
Now a good knock down drag out senseless internet fight over over motor oil is a different matter.

Hammermechanicman said:

Now a good knock down drag out senseless internet fight over over motor oil is a different matter.

Click to expand...

???

Honest folks still live in CA?

MowManWV said:

Honest folks still live in CA?

Click to expand...

Why ?

Haven't read all this. Is Cali pushing battery gear and corded electric yard tools now?

Isn't their power grid failing slash over taxed like Texas? So everyone use electric stuff when they can't support it LOL.

slomo said:

Haven't read all this. Is Cali pushing battery gear and corded electric yard tools now?

Isn't their power grid failing slash over taxed like Texas? So everyone use electric stuff when they can't support it LOL.

Click to expand...

yes. That is how utopian dreams are made. First you have a dream, then you take a pill, next you go down a deep rabbit hole to find the magical key that makes it all happen. Their thinking right now is that they will put fuel injection, computers and catalytic converters on all small mowers, chain saws etc that can't be replaced with battery. I've been waiting a year on a replacement computer for an Acura. It isn't going to happen but it will be mandated anyway. Expect the FBI to raid your home too if you try to hide a gasoline engine from them past the day they say you can use it. We were going to move out of CA but now the whole US and Canada are crazy, or so our friends all over these places tell us. The 1% has an agenda and they are implementing it all over the western world.

sgkent said:

yes. That is how utopian dreams are made. First you have a dream, then you take a pill, next you go down a deep rabbit hole to find the magical key that makes it all happen. Their thinking right now is that they will put fuel injection, computers and catalytic converters on all small mowers, chain saws etc that can't be replaced with battery. I've been waiting a year on a replacement computer for an Acura. It isn't going to happen but it will be mandated anyway. Expect the FBI to raid your home too if you try to hide a gasoline engine from them past the day they say you can use it. We were going to move out of CA but now the whole US and Canada are crazy, or so our friends all over these places tell us. The 1% has an agenda and they are implementing it all over the western world.

Click to expand...

There is a problem caused by atmospheric pollution that is compounded by deforestation and the massive volume of hard heat retaining surfaces we build .
However virtue signalling by making legislation that skirts the problem and will have next to zero effect on the problem will not solve it .
Actually there are two problems
The big one is plain over population .
There are simply more people on the planet than the planet can support and those who gain wealth by having even more people are manipulating the laws ( and minds of those too stupid to think ) to make sure the population continues to grow at an unsustainable rate, except of course China whose one child policy has done more to avert pollution than every law & regulation passed by every other government on the planet added together & multiplied by 2 if not 3 .
One would have thought that after acid rain caused famine in Europe and CFC's burned a hole in the ozone layer that intelligent thinking people would have has a long hard look at atmospheric pollution, but we chose to ignore it and some even made it into pollitical weapon to divide nations like the USA , The UK & Aust where the population would rather believe the rantings of stooges on radio & TV paid millions by those who benefited financially from unregulated atmospheric pollution than to look objectively at what creditable scientists were saying & have been saying for over 50 years .

As for battery powered mowers, they are a moot point because after a couple of years when average summer temperatures are well over 100 F no one will have any grass to mow it will all be dead, for a very long time if not for good .
In Central USA tornadoes will have ripped up most of the grass so again no need to mow .
The only good thing about the extreme heat is it will probably kill a couple of million then add the thousands that will die from the extreme cold each winter and nature might just regulate the population excess for us .
Europe is seeing temperatures that have not been seen for over 25,000 years but of course it is not real it is all the 1% trying to make your life difficult and curtail your "freedoms" till of course your concrete drive cracks up & the tar on the road out front melts or there is no water coming from your tap or the ground your house is built on becomes so dry it shrinks so much that your house cracks up & falls apart .
Then suddenly it will be real but of course too late, if it is not too late already
Four floods here in 18 months. each one bigger than the last and first major flood for over 20 years
Floods in Europe that washed away complete towns that have never flooded before
Bushfires in the middle of winter and heavy snow falls in the middle of summer
Heaviest winter snow falls in may places ever recorded .
The Danube River is so low that it will become un-navigaible by shipping, some thing that has never been recorded since us ignorant ape derrivaties worked out how to write . And heaven only knows what is happening in China or Russia where news is regulated by the government .
Hail storms so heavy they are causing roofs to collapse under the weight of the hail.
these are becoming just about daily events yet there are those who would rather scream "fake news" and walk away .