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briggs selling off more

#1

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10



#2

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Looks like Briggs is killing off the pressure washer, portable generator and snowthrower market to mass retailers. And closing a 2 year old warehouse building in Germantown, WI.. And also interesting in the same article is Kohler acquired Curtis Instruments days after announcing the acquisition of Heila Technologies.

And Arrowhead acquiring Western Power Sports


#3

StarTech

StarTech

Come on Briggs die already.


#4

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

The saga continues.........
Who owns who and who will control the parts. Can't wait.


#5

B

bertsmobile1

This is the first intelligent thing they have done since the take over
Big retailers force the price down & also dictate terms like defferred payments
Briggs can not afford either so their only long term survival plan will be to reposition themselves as a top shelf premium product and leave the HF market to cheap imports then convince the market that their "made in the USA" products are worth the extra .
They should also buy back some of the parts manufacture so they are making their own replacement parts & not tryig to turn a profit on reselling stuff others make .
Their days of being the largest engine maker in the world are gone and in the not to distant future IC engines will end up being banned so they will have to go battery or hydrogen .


#6

StarTech

StarTech

The average consumer here rather go for the cheapest thing they can regardless if doesn't support their neighbor. Personally I try to buy American whenever can as long it is reasonably priced. I rather pay for quality instead el cheapo work.

This is also one the reason I buy oem parts whenever I can.


#7

bkeller500

bkeller500

it will be interesting to see if and How Briggs embraces the EV market. I am not a bog fan of EV yet but as time passes we are seeing more and more conversion to EV and battery power.


#8

B

billypumper

The old saying you get what you pay for, Briggs has to many internal parts that are plastic, I always steer clear of those motors, even ones that have John Deere names on the recoil, favorite motors are Kawasaki, Honda, Yanmar and Caterpillar.


#9

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

I've replaced more steel camshafts than plastic ones.....


#10

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Scrubcadet10 said:
I've replaced more steel camshafts than plastic ones.....
Click to expand...
And for me the plastic ones were is Kawasaki and Honda. Supposedly two of the better engine brands.


#11

B

billypumper

I have two JD SB14 silver deck self propelled walk behind mowers, one I mow with all summer long and one for backup in case a cable breaks on the throttle, transmission selector, or brake clutch, never have I had to break down the engine on either motor, both 5 hp, both were bought in the early 90s, 91 and 93, these mowers will last another 20 years, you get what you pay for each retailed for over $ 600.00 apiece . holy grail for a walk behind.


#12

B

bertsmobile1

Bushfire came through here in 1999 and two people who would become my customers got burned out.
Both of them claimed for a mower on their insurance
One bought a Honda , the other a Murray Sentenial .
The Honda mowed about 4 acres plus was used for towing & general yard transport.
It cost the same down here an the cheapest 2 seater car.
In the 20 years it has required no work other than the replacement of blades, belts & king pin bushes, all standard service parts.
The Murray mowed 3/4 acre averaging $ 500 / year in its last 6 years , got a new engine ( 2nd hand ) new deck ( 2nd hand ) and finally died completely in 2015


#13

B

billypumper

Was the Honda a riding mower ? Murray could have a couple different engines, the part about Briggs selling, Briggs is in bankruptcy, with 900 million debt, being bought by some huge conglomerate, not sure who's going to run the company, but they need to make some serious changes.


#14

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

billypumper said:
Was the Honda a riding mower ? Murray could have a couple different engines, the part about Briggs selling, Briggs is in bankruptcy, with 900 million debt, being bought by some huge conglomerate, not sure who's going to run the company, but they need to make some serious changes.
Click to expand...
The are making changes. Most likely milking the company for what they can and then will dump the ashes


#15

VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ

VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ

ILENGINE said:
And for me the plastic ones were is Kawasaki and Honda. Supposedly two of the better engine brands.
Click to expand...
There are so many reasons B&S was top dog for years. They got caught by many OEM's who could not pay thier bill so they sucked them up. All USA competition still cannot hold a candle to the total of the B&S line which has a product for every class and is working to meet the on coming EV market in big strides. The only reason bankruptcy fell on them was the CEO's in charge took options out and gained in the sale but had to make it happen to get there. Not long ago it was the cash richest company in the USA and world, although not the biggest. Even today there sales extend well into the future which is why competition appeared on the market, as they could not meet demand alone. So the troubled history of B&S has not been kind to the company but it is not because of the product. Yes they have had some troubled models, but hardly ever had a model that mechanics swore at as much as others. Take Honda with the steel key crankshaft to flywheel for push mowers! Quality versus stupidity. I only hope as it seems so far that the current owners know what they have grabbed and propel it forward cause every other maker in my book falls well short. But I have only been doing this for 55 years so my opinion go es back to when they were the only big dog except Tecumseh on snow blowers and Craftsman.


#16

StarTech

StarTech

I figure it was more poor management than poor products myself. Top management can't be greedy at the expense of their company nor make bad decisions. It didn't help companies like Sears and Wal-mart stop carrying some the product lines. Once consumers get burned by lack of support it is hard to get them back too.

At one time Murray Ohio made the Craftsman riders then Sears change manufactures which put Murray in a bind and when Tecumseh went under it was the straw that broke Murray as most their equipment was built around Tecumseh products. For several years we had beg for parts until Briggs took over the name and some of the parts manufacturing.

Briggs lease out the Murray name to companies like Husqvarna and MTD so it is slowly making a come back. When Brigg purchased Snapper mower they lease that out to Husqvarna for frame manufacturing or at least the Snapper rider and ZTR that I have under my wing are using Husqvarna parts. Briggs actually lost part sales as Husqvarna have put their part number on the parts so brought the parts from Husqvarna for about 1/2 - 2/3s of the Briggs price. Even at those reduced prices the customer still complains about costs [it is normal for them to complain about anything that is not free].

The long term part back orders is what hurting me here. I had a Coleman generator in the shop for 2 months now and instead waiting the carburetor repair kit to get back in stock (still on back order) I had order individual parts which still took a month to get. But at least the unit is back together awaiting a start-up which is delayed due rainy weather here and now wet snow. The customer came by yesterday saying he been to other shops that say they can get the kit which I know they can't. Most Coleman generators have Tecumseh engines but this one has a Briggs.

I see how current Briggs deliver parts so as I just order for parts for both stock and oil pump screen for a 49M I have torn down for sump gasket replacement. The screen was so full of paper gasket material that actually rip the screen off the plastic holder.

Here is the small order I just placed with A&I. It would have been more but I had already off load nearly $1500 of the order to other vendors as they were not Briggs or another vendor had better pricing cost wise. I would order 3 camshafts but I just found 2 that were in the wrong bin so save me $110.
1642342267923.png

Now that A&I has raise their after market parts prices most the parts lower at their competitors especially when you add in their retail UPS shipping rates for anything under $200. Boy I hated getting billed $45 on a $192 order because they wanted to ship out 3 different warehouses.


#17

Mower King

Mower King

We just got 4 2022 Ferris mowers in last week of a 21 mower order of Ferris so, B&S is not dead yet!
They appear to be built the same as the 2021 but Ferris has changed the paint scheme for 2022 and they DO LOOK GOOD!
We'll see this coming spring & summer how easy ordered parts will arrive!


#18

bkeller500

bkeller500

I'm a typical homeowner that has purchased and replaced various mowers, tillers, snowblowers and choppers. I have had John Deere, Simplicity, Cub, Toro, White, Honda and MTD units. They either had Honda, Briggs, Kawasaki, Kohler or Tecumseh motors. Never in any of those units did I ever have a motor problem or repair. I see a lot of opinions on this forum and most of them are well earned opinions based on performance, observation or experiences. I, like so many others appreciate the many options we have to choose from. Some of them are stronger than others and that is usually reflected by pricing. I would like to see a pull-back from dependance on China and reestablishment of American labor and engineering. I would rather pay more for good quality than pay less for equipment that is going to disappoint me. I hope Briggs and the others survive and continue to build quality products.


#19

StarTech

StarTech

As with all things not all will have problems or the same problems. It all depends the users and the equipment usage. I got customers that simply wear things out without any major problems and then there the ones that are constantly having problems. People are the same with some us rarely needing to see a doctor and others that are constantly going to one.

You have heard or read that some swear by JD and then later heard other that hate them.

Either way when they do break being able to repair then is usually important which why there is a lot complains lately because how hard it is to gets parts quickly.


#20

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Briggs and most of the other domestic engine and mower companies need to get out of the mass merchant box stores, and concentrate more on their higher end dealer products. The Chinese products are going to dominate the box store market and the domestic companies will be fighting tooth and nail to even survive in that market. And if Briggs is going to farm out their homeowner lines to third party companies like Husqvarna, MTD, Ardisam, then they need to just sell off those lines. The last Snapper and Murray mowers I saw at my local Walmart were made by a company with no contact information past parts@chinese company.com


#21

StarTech

StarTech

I thought I read somewhere that Husqvarna was getting out the consumer [ie the Big Box store lines] market.


#22

B

bertsmobile1

bkeller500 said:
I'm a typical homeowner that has purchased and replaced various mowers, tillers, snowblowers and choppers. I have had John Deere, Simplicity, Cub, Toro, White, Honda and MTD units. They either had Honda, Briggs, Kawasaki, Kohler or Tecumseh motors. Never in any of those units did I ever have a motor problem or repair. I see a lot of opinions on this forum and most of them are well earned opinions based on performance, observation or experiences. I, like so many others appreciate the many options we have to choose from. Some of them are stronger than others and that is usually reflected by pricing. I would like to see a pull-back from dependance on China and reestablishment of American labor and engineering. I would rather pay more for good quality than pay less for equipment that is going to disappoint me. I hope Briggs and the others survive and continue to build quality products.
Click to expand...
A nice sentiment but it goes a lot deeper than just paying a bit more and you will be paying a lot more, not a little & by a lot you are talking around 50% .
Then there are other consequences like a reduction in your pension as well because that is where the pension funds make their money.
Finally your government has to grow testicles.
Since the Regan administration the US government spending has been more than it raises in taxes to the tune of 5 % to 15 % of GDP.
Regan got it very wrong with the "Trickle down effect" and the total tax take did not go up, it went down because the only people who actually pay the full tax rate are the PAYE employees and their incomes have not kept pace with inflation .
Inflation which does nothing apart from protecting the value of the assets of those with a lot of assets and prevents those without assets obtaining them became a manditory part of all governments fiscal policies .
So governments have to make sure the very wealthy pay their fair share of tax ( remember President Trump bragging that his companies pay no tax ) and stop using tax cuts to rich to get them to donate for the parties .
Then the anti trust laws that the USA pioneered in enacting, have to be used to reduce the power of companies like HF & Walmart & Amazon & Stanley B&D , Microsoft , etc etc .
Once any business gets to a market share over 20% in their sector, the benefits of competition fail because a single entity gets to the position where they have effective control over the market.
So in place of Walmart finding products in a price range they dictate what major suppliers will charge them or they will refuse to carry any of that companies products ( including service parts ).
Now because all big manufacturers have gone down the high volume low margin path, a small drop in volume sales can send them bankrupt in no time flat and is is what ultimately sent Tecumseh to the wall and was a large part of B & S going to the wall , bad management and top end greed did not help .
And when retailers get really big then they simply send quality locally made products to a third world country, get an exactly visually identical product made then flood the market with it such that the original factory looses so many sales they go broke.
Then the vultures ( pension , Hedge & investment funds ) move in buy up the assets , flog them off at massive profits , build houses on the land then go on to pick the bones of the next victim.
Back at the end of WWII the top 10% of incomes controlled 20% of the money & 30% of the assets
Now the top 10% account for 70% of the money and 90% of the assets .
The system is broken because the regulating of it has failed and the governments hide behind slogans like "Too Big To Fail" because they are dependent upon the good will of that top 10% .
The perfect example of this is the banking collapse , The government bailed out the banks , thus protecting the assets of the share holders and not the working people who lost their houses .
Bailing out the banks in place of allowing them to collapse or taking them over then refloating when they in a stronger position ( standard liquidation practices ) the government printed money to give to the billionairs to save the banks and within 2 years they were back to stealing from the poor & paying the executives multi million dollar bonuses , business as normal .

China is not the problem.
America is the problem
China will be replaced with North Korea or India then any one of a dozen South African or South American third world countries


#23

B

bertsmobile1

ILENGINE said:
Briggs and most of the other domestic engine and mower companies need to get out of the mass merchant box stores, and concentrate more on their higher end dealer products. The Chinese products are going to dominate the box store market and the domestic companies will be fighting tooth and nail to even survive in that market. And if Briggs is going to farm out their homeowner lines to third party companies like Husqvarna, MTD, Ardisam, then they need to just sell off those lines. The last Snapper and Murray mowers I saw at my local Walmart were made by a company with no contact information past parts@chinese company.com
Click to expand...
And the merchant Big Box Stores need to be properly regulated according to the anti-trust laws the USA pioneered back in the 1800's but conviently forgot about back in the 60's .


#24

StarTech

StarTech

I agree the whole system is broken but getting fix is impossible due to ones that running or here lately not running it. If they had to live within their means by earning a honest wage they couldn't do it. They rather run it like the payday loan predators that legally rob the poor to get rich.


#25

bkeller500

bkeller500

bertsmobile1 said:
A nice sentiment but it goes a lot deeper than just paying a bit more and you will be paying a lot more, not a little & by a lot you are talking around 50% .
Then there are other consequences like a reduction in your pension as well because that is where the pension funds make their money.
Finally your government has to grow testicles.
Since the Regan administration the US government spending has been more than it raises in taxes to the tune of 5 % to 15 % of GDP.
Regan got it very wrong with the "Trickle down effect" and the total tax take did not go up, it went down because the only people who actually pay the full tax rate are the PAYE employees and their incomes have not kept pace with inflation .
Inflation which does nothing apart from protecting the value of the assets of those with a lot of assets and prevents those without assets obtaining them became a manditory part of all governments fiscal policies .
So governments have to make sure the very wealthy pay their fair share of tax ( remember President Trump bragging that his companies pay no tax ) and stop using tax cuts to rich to get them to donate for the parties .
Then the anti trust laws that the USA pioneered in enacting, have to be used to reduce the power of companies like HF & Walmart & Amazon & Stanley B&D , Microsoft , etc etc .
Once any business gets to a market share over 20% in their sector, the benefits of competition fail because a single entity gets to the position where they have effective control over the market.
So in place of Walmart finding products in a price range they dictate what major suppliers will charge them or they will refuse to carry any of that companies products ( including service parts ).
Now because all big manufacturers have gone down the high volume low margin path, a small drop in volume sales can send them bankrupt in no time flat and is is what ultimately sent Tecumseh to the wall and was a large part of B & S going to the wall , bad management and top end greed did not help .
And when retailers get really big then they simply send quality locally made products to a third world country, get an exactly visually identical product made then flood the market with it such that the original factory looses so many sales they go broke.
Then the vultures ( pension , Hedge & investment funds ) move in buy up the assets , flog them off at massive profits , build houses on the land then go on to pick the bones of the next victim.
Back at the end of WWII the top 10% of incomes controlled 20% of the money & 30% of the assets
Now the top 10% account for 70% of the money and 90% of the assets .
The system is broken because the regulating of it has failed and the governments hide behind slogans like "Too Big To Fail" because they are dependent upon the good will of that top 10% .
The perfect example of this is the banking collapse , The government bailed out the banks , thus protecting the assets of the share holders and not the working people who lost their houses .
Bailing out the banks in place of allowing them to collapse or taking them over then refloating when they in a stronger position ( standard liquidation practices ) the government printed money to give to the billionairs to save the banks and within 2 years they were back to stealing from the poor & paying the executives multi million dollar bonuses , business as normal .

China is not the problem.
America is the problem
China will be replaced with North Korea or India then any one of a dozen South African or South American third world countries
Click to expand...
I do not disagree with any of your comments and in fact they are very enlightening. The only response I can come back with is......"We can't keep going like this". We are on a one-way street and it is a dead end. I don't blame China for taking our money but I blame us for not realizing we went to far. Money makes the world go around. it's a mater of earning it, and sharing it and passing it on to the next group. It has to circulate. Our tax system is a economy of it's own. The government collects it and decides where to spend it, thinking they can do a better job of it than we can. You cannot continue to support your neighbors when you can barely support yourselves. Everyone knows that when you spend money it's taxed. When that money creates profits, those profits keep business ( the economy) alive and as that money is divided among workers that earn it, they spend it and it's taxed again over and over. A dollar spent changes hands 7-times before it evaporates. When the the government spends it, the cycle is broken and the results are compromised.


#26

StarTech

StarTech

All I can say is that I not paying this year's taxes on my income and probably will not for a few years. When the government finally decides to pay me what is now owed to me then I will start paying again.

I don't mind paying my taxes when they are due but they must be offset by what is owed in my direction. Currently the US government is $3200+ in arrears plus interest.


#27

B

billypumper

If you can't find parts for your Snapper, try Simplicity, lot of parts are interchangeable, especially in their zero turn mowers.


#28

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

billypumper said:
If you can't find parts for your Snapper, try Simplicity, lot of parts are interchangeable, especially in their zero turn mowers.
Click to expand...
Just have to be careful with the push mower line because some are built by Snapper/Briggs, Some are MTD, some are Husqvarna, and some are Chinese company with no support.


#29

StarTech

StarTech

ILENGINE said:
Just have to be careful with the push mower line because some are built by Snapper/Briggs, Some are MTD, some are Husqvarna, and some are Chinese company with no support.
Click to expand...
Enough to drive a crazy person sane.


#30

B

bertsmobile1

bkeller500 said:
I do not disagree with any of your comments and in fact they are very enlightening. The only response I can come back with is......"We can't keep going like this". We are on a one-way street and it is a dead end. I don't blame China for taking our money but I blame us for not realizing we went to far. Money makes the world go around. it's a mater of earning it, and sharing it and passing it on to the next group. It has to circulate. Our tax system is a economy of it's own. The government collects it and decides where to spend it, thinking they can do a better job of it than we can. You cannot continue to support your neighbors when you can barely support yourselves. Everyone knows that when you spend money it's taxed. When that money creates profits, those profits keep business ( the economy) alive and as that money is divided among workers that earn it, they spend it and it's taxed again over and over. A dollar spent changes hands 7-times before it evaporates. When the the government spends it, the cycle is broken and the results are compromised.
Click to expand...
But we will keep on doing the same thing till it is too late
only two outcomes, those who are on the bottom arm themselves and incite a revolution.
or
We consume ourselves to extinction
Communism , socialism capitalism
None are perfect , all of them have their good points & all of them have their bad points
All work well when properly managed , the trick is properly manageing them and that trick has not been carried off from the day we crawled out of our caves.
Americans actually think that Bill Gates is some sort of hero & deserves to live his life of luxury , when in reality he is a thief & extortionist
The people of Nt Korea believe that president Kim should live in oppulance while they starve .
We get taught from the cradle to believe in heros that will save us then in adult life we enact that fantasy
President Trump made people believe that he was a hero and he would end unemployment , return large scale manufacturing to the USA and make every one rich.
In reality he could not do any of those things because he does not have the power and where he dose he can not use it because it would dissadvantage the people the parts relies upon for financial support .
In reality President Obama did more to bring manufacturing back on shore than Trump even did .
PRofessor Tobin proposed a very tiny & extreamy efficient form of taxation often called the Tobin Tax.
He proposed that every conversion of currency be taxed at 0.01% or 1¢ in every $ 1000 and it to be administered by the World Bank to alleviate 3rd world poverty.
Even better was 1/3 of it would go to paying off 3rd world debt and within 10 years most of the impoverished countries would be debt free.
Now this money would be going to the governments & big organizations in the 1st world who loaned the 3rd world countries the money in the first place .
His proposal was howled down because the 1st world countries need to keep 3rd world countries in perpetual debt so they can control them economically and exploit them.
Nothing has really changed since the days of capturing your enemies army and dragging them back in chains to work as slaves


#31

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

StarTech said:
Enough to drive a crazy person sane.
Click to expand...
Murray has the same issues. Is it a Murray/Murray and MTD Murray, a Husqvarna Murray, or the Chinese Murray.


#32

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

ILENGINE said:
Murray has the same issues. Is it a Murray/Murray and MTD Murray, a Husqvarna Murray, or the Chinese Murray.
Click to expand...
Didn't Noma make the Murray brand too... or did it turn into Murray Murray?


#33

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Scrubcadet10 said:
Didn't Noma make the Murray brand too... or did it turn into Murray Murray?
Click to expand...
Murray Ohio the bicycle company purchased Noma after being acquired by Tomkins PLC of Great Britain


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