You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Export thread
Briggs and Stratton flywheel nut removal
#1
benson1980
benson1980
Hi all,
I am attempting a repair on my Makita lawnmower which has a B+S 675Exi engine. I believe that the flywheel key is the culprit for difficult starting/rough running and therefore have taken it apart to access it.
I have bought the special (and very expensive) tool that supposedly both acts as the flywheel puller, and holds it in place to remove the bolt. I have tried the strap wrench method and as you can see this has just caused the fins to shear off as I tightened around them. I have therefore bought a replacement secondhand flywheel off Ebay. This repair is not going well...
Now that I thought I had the right tools, I cannot for the life of me work out how the tool works to hold the flywheel securely in place whilst I remove the nut. The bolts just drop down loosely into the two holes. They don't actually secure into anything underneath. The instructions say hold the bolt in place with a wrench, but I'm just holding onto a loose bolt!
Is anyone able to tell me what I'm missing, or best way of holding the flywheel in place? My other issue appears to be that my blade rotates around the spindle freely so I can't jam it from underneath. Was going to try and fix that after I've sorted this problem.
Thanks
I am attempting a repair on my Makita lawnmower which has a B+S 675Exi engine. I believe that the flywheel key is the culprit for difficult starting/rough running and therefore have taken it apart to access it.
I have bought the special (and very expensive) tool that supposedly both acts as the flywheel puller, and holds it in place to remove the bolt. I have tried the strap wrench method and as you can see this has just caused the fins to shear off as I tightened around them. I have therefore bought a replacement secondhand flywheel off Ebay. This repair is not going well...
Now that I thought I had the right tools, I cannot for the life of me work out how the tool works to hold the flywheel securely in place whilst I remove the nut. The bolts just drop down loosely into the two holes. They don't actually secure into anything underneath. The instructions say hold the bolt in place with a wrench, but I'm just holding onto a loose bolt!
Is anyone able to tell me what I'm missing, or best way of holding the flywheel in place? My other issue appears to be that my blade rotates around the spindle freely so I can't jam it from underneath. Was going to try and fix that after I've sorted this problem.
Thanks
Attachments
#2
StarTech
StarTech
I see you already been donating blood. <LOL>
You use a pull bar in the square hole to hold the tool while you remove and when you retorque the nut back to 60 lb/ft (81.3 Nm). Can't tell if you need 3/8 of 1/2 square drive end but will be obivious when you try the pull bar. And you definite need some penetrating oil on the nut due to the amount of rust I see.
You use a pull bar in the square hole to hold the tool while you remove and when you retorque the nut back to 60 lb/ft (81.3 Nm). Can't tell if you need 3/8 of 1/2 square drive end but will be obivious when you try the pull bar. And you definite need some penetrating oil on the nut due to the amount of rust I see.
#3
benson1980
Yes good spot- I might have sliced my finger a bit trying to undo it! Nothing too serious...
Thanks for the pointer- really appreciate it. Will give it a go tomorrow. And yes I've given it a good soak with plus gas and just added some more for good measure to leave overnight.
benson1980
I see you already been donating blood. <LOL>
You use a pull bar in the square hole to hold the tool while you remove and when you retorque the nut back to 60 lb/ft (81.3 Nm). Can't tell if you need 3/8 of 1/2 square drive end but will be obivious when you try the pull bar. And you definite need some penetrating oil on the nut due to the amount of rust I see.
View attachment 63891
Yes good spot- I might have sliced my finger a bit trying to undo it! Nothing too serious...
Thanks for the pointer- really appreciate it. Will give it a go tomorrow. And yes I've given it a good soak with plus gas and just added some more for good measure to leave overnight.
#4
B
Bertrrr
B
Bertrrr
The only way I ever pulled a flywheel is to pry up from 2 sides 180 degree apart and Hit the top of the shaft with a good hammer, you need to back the nut off so it's flush with the shaft so it doesn't mushroom.
Have a friend pry up on the fly wheel and give it a good Pop with a ball peen hammer and it will pop loose , it's a tapered shaft so doesn't need to move much to free up.
Use an Impact to break the nut loose , no need to hold the flywheel it will break the nut loose
Have a friend pry up on the fly wheel and give it a good Pop with a ball peen hammer and it will pop loose , it's a tapered shaft so doesn't need to move much to free up.
Use an Impact to break the nut loose , no need to hold the flywheel it will break the nut loose
#5
benson1980
benson1980
Hi both- thanks again for your help with this problem. Managed to remove the flywheel nut using the above method, with that metal plate tool and putting a breaker bar through the square hole. Needed another pair of hands. Completely useless instructions from Briggs and Stratton and their tech support don’t reply either….
also used the pry method as advised, as again there’s no way the tool and following the instructions were going to get it off.
Bad news is flywheel key was actually fine. I’ve already serviced it, put fresh oil and petrol in, and cleaned the carburettor so at a bit of a dead end trying to fix it. I can just about get it started when cold but trying to start it again when warm is really difficult, and the starter rope will jerk back. Ended up buying a new Honda mower so will hopefully have some more success with that.
also used the pry method as advised, as again there’s no way the tool and following the instructions were going to get it off.
Bad news is flywheel key was actually fine. I’ve already serviced it, put fresh oil and petrol in, and cleaned the carburettor so at a bit of a dead end trying to fix it. I can just about get it started when cold but trying to start it again when warm is really difficult, and the starter rope will jerk back. Ended up buying a new Honda mower so will hopefully have some more success with that.
#6
S
slomo
S
slomo
I pull flywheels with an air hammer and a prybar. And an impact gun on the nut, to LOOSEN only. Torque the nut back to factory specs when done.
#7
benson1980
benson1980
This is the outrageously expensive tool from Briggs and Stratton for this engine series. I have no idea how a metal plate and a few bolts can be just under £100:
https://www.briggsbits.co.uk/acatalog/19619-Puller-450E-500E-550E-600E-850-950-4209.html
Won't be buying another mower with a briggs engine.
https://www.briggsbits.co.uk/acatalog/19619-Puller-450E-500E-550E-600E-850-950-4209.html
Won't be buying another mower with a briggs engine.
#8
U
unkwnmike
U
unkwnmike
I had same problem. You have to take off the center nut to get to fly wheel. Must you their puller. $20.00 on amazon. Comes off 123.Hi all,
I am attempting a repair on my Makita lawnmower which has a B+S 675Exi engine. I believe that the flywheel key is the culprit for difficult starting/rough running and therefore have taken it apart to access it.
I have bought the special (and very expensive) tool that supposedly both acts as the flywheel puller, and holds it in place to remove the bolt. I have tried the strap wrench method and as you can see this has just caused the fins to shear off as I tightened around them. I have therefore bought a replacement secondhand flywheel off Ebay. This repair is not going well...
Now that I thought I had the right tools, I cannot for the life of me work out how the tool works to hold the flywheel securely in place whilst I remove the nut. The bolts just drop down loosely into the two holes. They don't actually secure into anything underneath. The instructions say hold the bolt in place with a wrench, but I'm just holding onto a loose bolt!
Is anyone able to tell me what I'm missing, or best way of holding the flywheel in place? My other issue appears to be that my blade rotates around the spindle freely so I can't jam it from underneath. Was going to try and fix that after I've sorted this problem.
Thanks
#9
benson1980
benson1980
I used a £5 pry tool in the end. But, you try and prep for the job and it leads you to presume you need their special tool. To be honest it was mainly holding the flywheel in place whilst loosening the nut that seemed to be the main issue and reason I bought it; I don't have an impact driver/wrench and the strap wrench method wasn't working against the plastic fins.I had same problem. You have to take off the center nut to get to fly wheel. Must you their puller. $20.00 on amazon. Comes off 123.
#10
B
bertsmobile1
Professionals use air guns or high speed battery impacts which only need hand pressure to hold the flywheel
After that it is a prybar or two and a hammer
I use a 3 leg puller with an air gun that will pop nearly every flywheel and you can hold the flywheel still enough with your fingers
Special tool that are made in very low volume and sold in even lower numbers will be very expensive because of the logistical / storeage costs if nothing else.
A pallet sitting on a shelf in a warehouse costs money, a lot more money than most would believe , the pallet space itself costs money every day of the week , regardless of how many times it is accessed then there is a picking cost a despatch cost and a retail profit .
Before it is made there is a design cost, a testing cost , and an inventory listing cost .
Then there is the profits in using it.
If it saves me 5 minutes 12 times a day it has made me a $ 76 profit.
If it does the same for the shops in town that blows out to a $ 150 profit
If it saves Joe Stupid the cost of a new fan that they broke getting the flywheel off then again it pays for itself very quickly .
IF no one was allowed to make profits then we would still be cutting grass with sythes & sickles .
B
bertsmobile1
Which is why the make the idiot proof tool in the first place.I used a £5 pry tool in the end. But, you try and prep for the job and it leads you to presume you need their special tool. To be honest it was mainly holding the flywheel in place whilst loosening the nut that seemed to be the main issue and reason I bought it; I don't have an impact driver/wrench and the strap wrench method wasn't working against the plastic fins.
Professionals use air guns or high speed battery impacts which only need hand pressure to hold the flywheel
After that it is a prybar or two and a hammer
I use a 3 leg puller with an air gun that will pop nearly every flywheel and you can hold the flywheel still enough with your fingers
Special tool that are made in very low volume and sold in even lower numbers will be very expensive because of the logistical / storeage costs if nothing else.
A pallet sitting on a shelf in a warehouse costs money, a lot more money than most would believe , the pallet space itself costs money every day of the week , regardless of how many times it is accessed then there is a picking cost a despatch cost and a retail profit .
Before it is made there is a design cost, a testing cost , and an inventory listing cost .
Then there is the profits in using it.
If it saves me 5 minutes 12 times a day it has made me a $ 76 profit.
If it does the same for the shops in town that blows out to a $ 150 profit
If it saves Joe Stupid the cost of a new fan that they broke getting the flywheel off then again it pays for itself very quickly .
IF no one was allowed to make profits then we would still be cutting grass with sythes & sickles .
#11
benson1980
benson1980
No massive issue with expensive tools. I do have a problem with expensive tools that come with instructions that make absolutely no sense and the only logical answer I get as to how to use it comes from an internet forum rather than the people who make it, or not at least to Joe Stupids like me.Which is why the make the idiot proof tool in the first place.
Professionals use air guns or high speed battery impacts which only need hand pressure to hold the flywheel
After that it is a prybar or two and a hammer
I use a 3 leg puller with an air gun that will pop nearly every flywheel and you can hold the flywheel still enough with your fingers
Special tool that are made in very low volume and sold in even lower numbers will be very expensive because of the logistical / storeage costs if nothing else.
A pallet sitting on a shelf in a warehouse costs money, a lot more money than most would believe , the pallet space itself costs money every day of the week , regardless of how many times it is accessed then there is a picking cost a despatch cost and a retail profit .
Before it is made there is a design cost, a testing cost , and an inventory listing cost .
Then there is the profits in using it.
If it saves me 5 minutes 12 times a day it has made me a $ 76 profit.
If it does the same for the shops in town that blows out to a $ 150 profit
If it saves Joe Stupid the cost of a new fan that they broke getting the flywheel off then again it pays for itself very quickly .
IF no one was allowed to make profits then we would still be cutting grass with sythes & sickles .
#12
B
Blockhead22
B
Blockhead22
Maybe I’m not understanding what the problem was but, all I did was secure the blade from moving (wedged a log underneath the mower) and taking the flywheel nut off was a breeze.
Getting the flywheel itself off has been an ordeal, yet to be finished.
Getting the flywheel itself off has been an ordeal, yet to be finished.
#13
benson1980
benson1980
That is another way of doing it. But, for whatever reason my blade was spinning on the shaft (nut fully tightened), which was going to be the next thing I had a look at.Maybe I’m not understanding what the problem was but, all I did was secure the blade from moving (wedged a log underneath the mower) and taking the flywheel nut off was a breeze.
Getting the flywheel itself off has been an ordeal, yet to be finished.
#14
B
Blockhead22
Next time you have the same issues you were having with the Makita, consider checking valve clearances before you write it off. Flywheel key is a good guess but out of whack valves can wreak havoc…
B
Blockhead22
Congrats on the new mower, love getting new toys!Hi both- thanks again for your help with this problem. Managed to remove the flywheel nut using the above method, with that metal plate tool and putting a breaker bar through the square hole. Needed another pair of hands. Completely useless instructions from Briggs and Stratton and their tech support don’t reply either….
also used the pry method as advised, as again there’s no way the tool and following the instructions were going to get it off.
Bad news is flywheel key was actually fine. I’ve already serviced it, put fresh oil and petrol in, and cleaned the carburettor so at a bit of a dead end trying to fix it. I can just about get it started when cold but trying to start it again when warm is really difficult, and the starter rope will jerk back. Ended up buying a new Honda mower so will hopefully have some more success with that.
Next time you have the same issues you were having with the Makita, consider checking valve clearances before you write it off. Flywheel key is a good guess but out of whack valves can wreak havoc…
#15
benson1980
benson1980
Thanks! I suspect I have a few issues. I did manage to get it started today but the dipstick keeps getting forced loose somehow- excess pressure from somewhere? I definitely tighten it properly. It was also vibrating more than usual, then there’s the blade issue. I’ll put it in the garage and might have another tinker with it when I have time. I don’t mind taking things apart and trying to fix them and will have a look at valve clearances as well.Congrats on the new mower, love getting new toys!
Next time you have the same issues you were having with the Makita, consider checking valve clearances before you write it off. Flywheel key is a good guess but out of whack valves can wreak havoc…
#16
sgkent
sgkent
better get the blades sharpened - with the coming mandates to EV trucks and farm equipment we will be using them again unless we can harness lightning.IF no one was allowed to make profits then we would still be cutting grass with sythes & sickles
#17
S
SeniorCitizen
S
SeniorCitizen
A 2X4 two ft. long makes a excellent impacter when it smacks the end of the box wrench that's on the nut .
#18
Fish
Fish
The cord jerking will happen if there is no blade, or the blade is loose.
#19
C
Cajun power
while it can happen, it's actually quite rare to see a keyway fail and slip.
there are a few things you can do to diagnose a slipped or sloppy keyway.
lock the flywheel down (anchor the blades so they never move)...the try and move the flywheel...if it slips back and forth...yup...that's your problem...
but sometimes a flywheel keyway is smashed and the doesn't actually move...it's just OFF in timing.
so then to do a better way to diagnose is to perform a timing light test. There are some youtube videos that explain how this is done. What you need to know before doing a timing light test, is where the ignition timing phase begins on your particular machine...paint or mark on the flywheel where that specific spot should happen. Like for instance on my kawasaki v twin (FR 691V, a very common mower engine), the magnet on the flywheel will be just right before it lands on the leading arm of the coil. One can prove this by moving the flywheel to top dead center for that cylinder..and to the other if you have a twin cylinder.. It's an easy concept and process to determine where ignition timing should occur. But you will need to consult with the specs on your specific engine to find out where that ignition timing mark SHOULD BE> if the woodruff key has smashed or slammed the timing will be off...so you have to know where the timing SHOULD BE PER SPEC. Then make that painted mark and go about shooting a timing light to it off the coil high tension wire. IF the timing mark is not correct, then yes, the flywheel is probably off. Some other symptoms when shooting a timing light is that the mark seems to vary back and forth...this would also indicate the keyway has smashed or slammed and that under load the flywheel is shifting back and forth under load. (this is particularly a thing with multi cylinder engines...where ignition pressure in one cylinder will overcome another weaker 4 stroke cycle in the other cylinder and this creates torque on a weak or damaged keyway..thus the flywheel moves...and the timing marks also moves with the timing light test.
a timing light is a very useful tool...especially in these small engines where timing is fixed and not variable, versus something more complex like variable timing or electronic timing/ignition. The vast major or mower engines are fixed timing systems....So this makes timing light test very easy to accomplish. Kind of like using a compression test set and a leak down test set, you can really get a pretty good idea about the condition of the engine overall by shooting a timing light. Brand new, most engines will shoot a really consistent steady mark on both cylinders...and it that timing mark should be exactly where the specifications indicate OEM in the area where the magnet approaches and meets the leading arm of the coil.
so a timing light might be a better idea to diagnose if you really have a flywheel keyway problem. It would save alot of time and frustration versus pulling the flywheel. It's just not that common a problem.
which raises the next question: since you know it's not the keyway...what is the root cause of the poor performance ? Have you determined what the problem is? just curious
C
Cajun power
just curious to ask: what made you think the keyway/woodruff was the problem with timing?Hi all,
I am attempting a repair on my Makita lawnmower which has a B+S 675Exi engine. I believe that the flywheel key is the culprit for difficult starting/rough running and therefore have taken it apart to access it.
I have bought the special (and very expensive) tool that supposedly both acts as the flywheel puller, and holds it in place to remove the bolt. I have tried the strap wrench method and as you can see this has just caused the fins to shear off as I tightened around them. I have therefore bought a replacement secondhand flywheel off Ebay. This repair is not going well...
Now that I thought I had the right tools, I cannot for the life of me work out how the tool works to hold the flywheel securely in place whilst I remove the nut. The bolts just drop down loosely into the two holes. They don't actually secure into anything underneath. The instructions say hold the bolt in place with a wrench, but I'm just holding onto a loose bolt!
Is anyone able to tell me what I'm missing, or best way of holding the flywheel in place? My other issue appears to be that my blade rotates around the spindle freely so I can't jam it from underneath. Was going to try and fix that after I've sorted this problem.
Thanks
while it can happen, it's actually quite rare to see a keyway fail and slip.
there are a few things you can do to diagnose a slipped or sloppy keyway.
lock the flywheel down (anchor the blades so they never move)...the try and move the flywheel...if it slips back and forth...yup...that's your problem...
but sometimes a flywheel keyway is smashed and the doesn't actually move...it's just OFF in timing.
so then to do a better way to diagnose is to perform a timing light test. There are some youtube videos that explain how this is done. What you need to know before doing a timing light test, is where the ignition timing phase begins on your particular machine...paint or mark on the flywheel where that specific spot should happen. Like for instance on my kawasaki v twin (FR 691V, a very common mower engine), the magnet on the flywheel will be just right before it lands on the leading arm of the coil. One can prove this by moving the flywheel to top dead center for that cylinder..and to the other if you have a twin cylinder.. It's an easy concept and process to determine where ignition timing should occur. But you will need to consult with the specs on your specific engine to find out where that ignition timing mark SHOULD BE> if the woodruff key has smashed or slammed the timing will be off...so you have to know where the timing SHOULD BE PER SPEC. Then make that painted mark and go about shooting a timing light to it off the coil high tension wire. IF the timing mark is not correct, then yes, the flywheel is probably off. Some other symptoms when shooting a timing light is that the mark seems to vary back and forth...this would also indicate the keyway has smashed or slammed and that under load the flywheel is shifting back and forth under load. (this is particularly a thing with multi cylinder engines...where ignition pressure in one cylinder will overcome another weaker 4 stroke cycle in the other cylinder and this creates torque on a weak or damaged keyway..thus the flywheel moves...and the timing marks also moves with the timing light test.
a timing light is a very useful tool...especially in these small engines where timing is fixed and not variable, versus something more complex like variable timing or electronic timing/ignition. The vast major or mower engines are fixed timing systems....So this makes timing light test very easy to accomplish. Kind of like using a compression test set and a leak down test set, you can really get a pretty good idea about the condition of the engine overall by shooting a timing light. Brand new, most engines will shoot a really consistent steady mark on both cylinders...and it that timing mark should be exactly where the specifications indicate OEM in the area where the magnet approaches and meets the leading arm of the coil.
so a timing light might be a better idea to diagnose if you really have a flywheel keyway problem. It would save alot of time and frustration versus pulling the flywheel. It's just not that common a problem.
which raises the next question: since you know it's not the keyway...what is the root cause of the poor performance ? Have you determined what the problem is? just curious
#20
benson1980
not sure as yet what is causing the performance problems, but to be honest aside from basic checks such as flywheel key, carburettor etc I’m a bit out of my depth. I can just about get it started and running so I will try and sort this loose mower blade.
benson1980
It was difficult to start and the cord was pulling back. Some Googling suggested the key was worth checking and I thought it would be easy to check! It was, apart from getting the nut off.just curious to ask: what made you think the keyway/woodruff was the problem with timing?
while it can happen, it's actually quite rare to see a keyway fail and slip.
there are a few things you can do to diagnose a slipped or sloppy keyway.
lock the flywheel down (anchor the blades so they never move)...the try and move the flywheel...if it slips back and forth...yup...that's your problem...
but sometimes a flywheel keyway is smashed and the doesn't actually move...it's just OFF in timing.
so then to do a better way to diagnose is to perform a timing light test. There are some youtube videos that explain how this is done. What you need to know before doing a timing light test, is where the ignition timing phase begins on your particular machine...paint or mark on the flywheel where that specific spot should happen. Like for instance on my kawasaki v twin (FR 691V, a very common mower engine), the magnet on the flywheel will be just right before it lands on the leading arm of the coil. One can prove this by moving the flywheel to top dead center for that cylinder..and to the other if you have a twin cylinder.. It's an easy concept and process to determine where ignition timing should occur. But you will need to consult with the specs on your specific engine to find out where that ignition timing mark SHOULD BE> if the woodruff key has smashed or slammed the timing will be off...so you have to know where the timing SHOULD BE PER SPEC. Then make that painted mark and go about shooting a timing light to it off the coil high tension wire. IF the timing mark is not correct, then yes, the flywheel is probably off. Some other symptoms when shooting a timing light is that the mark seems to vary back and forth...this would also indicate the keyway has smashed or slammed and that under load the flywheel is shifting back and forth under load. (this is particularly a thing with multi cylinder engines...where ignition pressure in one cylinder will overcome another weaker 4 stroke cycle in the other cylinder and this creates torque on a weak or damaged keyway..thus the flywheel moves...and the timing marks also moves with the timing light test.
a timing light is a very useful tool...especially in these small engines where timing is fixed and not variable, versus something more complex like variable timing or electronic timing/ignition. The vast major or mower engines are fixed timing systems....So this makes timing light test very easy to accomplish. Kind of like using a compression test set and a leak down test set, you can really get a pretty good idea about the condition of the engine overall by shooting a timing light. Brand new, most engines will shoot a really consistent steady mark on both cylinders...and it that timing mark should be exactly where the specifications indicate OEM in the area where the magnet approaches and meets the leading arm of the coil.
so a timing light might be a better idea to diagnose if you really have a flywheel keyway problem. It would save alot of time and frustration versus pulling the flywheel. It's just not that common a problem.
which raises the next question: since you know it's not the keyway...what is the root cause of the poor performance ? Have you determined what the problem is? just curious
not sure as yet what is causing the performance problems, but to be honest aside from basic checks such as flywheel key, carburettor etc I’m a bit out of my depth. I can just about get it started and running so I will try and sort this loose mower blade.
#21
C
Cajun power
C
Cajun power
if it starts and runs and there is no other performance problems other than just a hard pull start...then it's probably going to be either and overfilled oil...or there is some trash wrapped around the mower blades/spindle. I am assuming there is no blade engagement switch (like a PTO) on this push mower yes. so when you are starting it, you are also cranking the blades over. I would look there...it's probably why the blade got loosened....just an idea.
so two things: check the oil fill. make sure it's not overtopped. Then engine off, check to see if there isn't some trash wrapped around the blade and shaft.
noting: when tilting an engine to one side to get under the deck, make sure you let it sit for about 15-30 minutes before you start it. Allows time for the oil to drain back out of areas where it can cause starting problems and performance issues and foul plugs as a result. fuel can also end up in places like the air filter and out of the fuel cap, potentially causing fire hazards...I think there is a specific side of the mower to tilt when doing an oil change for most push mowers. Check that out in the manual. It will help reduce the chance of problems.
so two things: check the oil fill. make sure it's not overtopped. Then engine off, check to see if there isn't some trash wrapped around the blade and shaft.
noting: when tilting an engine to one side to get under the deck, make sure you let it sit for about 15-30 minutes before you start it. Allows time for the oil to drain back out of areas where it can cause starting problems and performance issues and foul plugs as a result. fuel can also end up in places like the air filter and out of the fuel cap, potentially causing fire hazards...I think there is a specific side of the mower to tilt when doing an oil change for most push mowers. Check that out in the manual. It will help reduce the chance of problems.
#22
Fish
Fish
If the blade is off or loose, it will jerk the cord out of your grip like that. Pushmowers have an aluminimun flywheel, and need the mass/weight of the blade. If that same engine were on a pressure washer or the like, the flywheel would be cast iron.
#23
benson1980
benson1980
Thanks again all for the assistance. I didn't know the slightly loose blade (which has definitely got worse over the last few weeks) would potentially cause these symptoms as well so despite the new mower arriving the other day I would still quite like to fix this one. Therefore I've looked again at the blade itself and the parts catalogue here:
https://www.sparepartsworld.co.uk/product.php?sn=SPARE_PLM5121
There's an upper and lower pressing plate, which I assume are designed to hold the blade in place once everything tightened. They are cheap enough so I've ordered a set and will see how I get on.
https://www.sparepartsworld.co.uk/product.php?sn=SPARE_PLM5121
There's an upper and lower pressing plate, which I assume are designed to hold the blade in place once everything tightened. They are cheap enough so I've ordered a set and will see how I get on.
#24
benson1980
benson1980
Thanks I did check around the shaft and all looks ok. And definitely not overfilled with oil.if it starts and runs and there is no other performance problems other than just a hard pull start...then it's probably going to be either and overfilled oil...or there is some trash wrapped around the mower blades/spindle. I am assuming there is no blade engagement switch (like a PTO) on this push mower yes. so when you are starting it, you are also cranking the blades over. I would look there...it's probably why the blade got loosened....just an idea.
so two things: check the oil fill. make sure it's not overtopped. Then engine off, check to see if there isn't some trash wrapped around the blade and shaft.
noting: when tilting an engine to one side to get under the deck, make sure you let it sit for about 15-30 minutes before you start it. Allows time for the oil to drain back out of areas where it can cause starting problems and performance issues and foul plugs as a result. fuel can also end up in places like the air filter and out of the fuel cap, potentially causing fire hazards...I think there is a specific side of the mower to tilt when doing an oil change for most push mowers. Check that out in the manual. It will help reduce the chance of problems.
#25
S
STEVES
S
STEVES
Carburetor up on top, oil gets into vent tube and ends up in carb if it is on the down side.if it starts and runs and there is no other performance problems other than just a hard pull start...then it's probably going to be either and overfilled oil...or there is some trash wrapped around the mower blades/spindle. I am assuming there is no blade engagement switch (like a PTO) on this push mower yes. so when you are starting it, you are also cranking the blades over. I would look there...it's probably why the blade got loosened....just an idea.
so two things: check the oil fill. make sure it's not overtopped. Then engine off, check to see if there isn't some trash wrapped around the blade and shaft.
noting: when tilting an engine to one side to get under the deck, make sure you let it sit for about 15-30 minutes before you start it. Allows time for the oil to drain back out of areas where it can cause starting problems and performance issues and foul plugs as a result. fuel can also end up in places like the air filter and out of the fuel cap, potentially causing fire hazards...I think there is a specific side of the mower to tilt when doing an oil change for most push mowers. Check that out in the manual. It will help reduce the chance of problems.
#26
T
Tommy Mckeown
T
Tommy Mckeown
Hold on! You said the blade rotates on the engine shaft? You should understand that the blade IS your flywheel! It's where the inertia energy is stored when you first crank or pull the cord. I'm going to say that getting the blade tight on the crankshaft is the FIRST problem you need to fix. Once the blade is tight on the shaft the mower will probably start.
#27
T
Tommy Mckeown
T
Tommy Mckeown
If you need proof, Take the blade off of a perfectly running mower and try to start it.
#28
benson1980
benson1980
Yep I understand that now. Definitely know a lot more about how my mower works thanks to the advice on here. Hopefully when these new parts arrive it will sort a lot of the issues I’d been having with it.Hold on! You said the blade rotates on the engine shaft? You should understand that the blade IS your flywheel! It's where the inertia energy is stored when you first crank or pull the cord. I'm going to say that getting the blade tight on the crankshaft is the FIRST problem you need to fix. Once the blade is tight on the shaft the mower will probably start.
#29
M
midavis
I was faced with the same situation on my 2012 Toro Turfmaster with its Kawasaki FJ180V engine. It has a very similar style pulley and I didn’t have their special expensive Bracket Holder tool to hold the flywheel and remove bolt. It was easy to fashion one from a random cut-off piece of 2" diameter iron pipe and fastening some bolts to it. (I first ground down its threading for a snug fit.) Then it was just a matter of gripping the pipe with a pipe wrench and putting your socket/extension on the bolt down inside.
M
midavis
For what it’s worth, if this can ever be of future help to anyone:…I have tried the strap wrench method and as you can see this has just caused the fins to shear off as I tightened around them. I have therefore bought a replacement secondhand flywheel off Ebay. This repair is not going well...
I was faced with the same situation on my 2012 Toro Turfmaster with its Kawasaki FJ180V engine. It has a very similar style pulley and I didn’t have their special expensive Bracket Holder tool to hold the flywheel and remove bolt. It was easy to fashion one from a random cut-off piece of 2" diameter iron pipe and fastening some bolts to it. (I first ground down its threading for a snug fit.) Then it was just a matter of gripping the pipe with a pipe wrench and putting your socket/extension on the bolt down inside.
Attachments
#30
benson1980
benson1980
So...to update on this issue. I fitted the replacement pressing plates and straight away the blade held firm, and now it appears to be running like a dream! Obviously slightly annoying I pulled the trigger and bought a new one now, but we have lots of grass to mow and a spare/old mower isn't necessarily a bad thing...
The other problem I have now is that the brake kill switch attached to the lever doesn't stop the engine so I'm having to pull the ignition coil if I want to shut it off. Obviously something to do with replacing the flywheel but whether it had it's day and that was the final tipping point perhaps? Anyway, the brake pad seems to still make contact with the flywheel so that is my next project to do some research on and sort.
The other problem I have now is that the brake kill switch attached to the lever doesn't stop the engine so I'm having to pull the ignition coil if I want to shut it off. Obviously something to do with replacing the flywheel but whether it had it's day and that was the final tipping point perhaps? Anyway, the brake pad seems to still make contact with the flywheel so that is my next project to do some research on and sort.
Attachments
#31
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The bracket is prone to bending so the switch does not make full contact
For now pull the kill wire off the magneto and run some wire up to the handlebars .
Ground it to stop the engine
For now pull the kill wire off the magneto and run some wire up to the handlebars .
Ground it to stop the engine
#32
C
Cajun power
C
Cajun power
a cheap and easy way to kill and engine ....install a fuel line shutoff valve. I place one close to the carb. I do this because I want to engine to use up all of the fuel in the bowl when not in use. Like long storage over winter months. It makes a big difference not letting fuel just sit and go bad in the carb. But it also works equally well to stop the engine too. which is exactly how I use the shutoff valve after mowing. takes about a minute of two to run until it stops. No fuel in carb to go gummy.
for a permanent fix to the kill switch, follow the brake kill switch wire...it's likely going to the a black wire that connect to the coil module spade connector. a circuit diagram might help see how the circuit functions. In my mowers (do not have brake switches, only safety switches for pto, seat, and steering arms), the kill switch wire goes from the ignition switch (off position) to each of the two coils on my v twin, and this also routes to the starter solenoid). Without getting into the technical circuitry design, basically the off position ignition key results in the coils no longer producing spark energy! Thus kill engine.
If you machine has that black wire to coil coming from a "brake switch"....this means your engine is going to stop when you turn on the brake? I think I do not understand what you mean by brake switch. But regardless, I would look for the black wire to the coil and inspect it all the way to the other things it connects with...any inline connectors...and starter solenoid. Any safety switches....the ignition switch....and of course the connector right at the coil(s). Sometimes those small gauge black "kill switch" wires get damaged and the insulation chaffs against the machine or the connector get corroded. If that happens, there is no way for the ignition switch to off to kill the coil. I would get your eyes on a circuit diagram for your machine and look at the coil kill switch circuit. It might be helpful to see where all of the switches and connectors are and where to find them. But I would visually inspect the wires all along the route. Clean it up and look carefully. often this kill switch wire is going to be very close to the flywheel and the cylinder head cooling fins...that alot of rotating mass to beat the heck out of a wire, and lots of heat from the cylinders.
Another things to understand is that a failing coil can have an internal anti cross fire diode that is failed. It's not common but it does happen. So if you have verified the black wire is good and all switches and connectors are good...and the starter solenoid and the ignition switch is good and no corrosion and no problems...then it just may be that the coil itself has failed internally. it will still produce a spark, bu the internal anti cross fire diode may have taken a dump...and that can also result in the kill switch not being able to kill the coil power! But this isn't that common. I would do the other things first before trying a new coil.
God Bless America
for a permanent fix to the kill switch, follow the brake kill switch wire...it's likely going to the a black wire that connect to the coil module spade connector. a circuit diagram might help see how the circuit functions. In my mowers (do not have brake switches, only safety switches for pto, seat, and steering arms), the kill switch wire goes from the ignition switch (off position) to each of the two coils on my v twin, and this also routes to the starter solenoid). Without getting into the technical circuitry design, basically the off position ignition key results in the coils no longer producing spark energy! Thus kill engine.
If you machine has that black wire to coil coming from a "brake switch"....this means your engine is going to stop when you turn on the brake? I think I do not understand what you mean by brake switch. But regardless, I would look for the black wire to the coil and inspect it all the way to the other things it connects with...any inline connectors...and starter solenoid. Any safety switches....the ignition switch....and of course the connector right at the coil(s). Sometimes those small gauge black "kill switch" wires get damaged and the insulation chaffs against the machine or the connector get corroded. If that happens, there is no way for the ignition switch to off to kill the coil. I would get your eyes on a circuit diagram for your machine and look at the coil kill switch circuit. It might be helpful to see where all of the switches and connectors are and where to find them. But I would visually inspect the wires all along the route. Clean it up and look carefully. often this kill switch wire is going to be very close to the flywheel and the cylinder head cooling fins...that alot of rotating mass to beat the heck out of a wire, and lots of heat from the cylinders.
Another things to understand is that a failing coil can have an internal anti cross fire diode that is failed. It's not common but it does happen. So if you have verified the black wire is good and all switches and connectors are good...and the starter solenoid and the ignition switch is good and no corrosion and no problems...then it just may be that the coil itself has failed internally. it will still produce a spark, bu the internal anti cross fire diode may have taken a dump...and that can also result in the kill switch not being able to kill the coil power! But this isn't that common. I would do the other things first before trying a new coil.
God Bless America
#33
S
STEVES
S
STEVES
The combination of the brake switch & engine kill is a safety feature, need to stop blades quickly - release handle & save a foot or some thing else.
#34
benson1980
benson1980
Thanks- a few things to look at and again understand a bit more about what that that part does now. Fuel cut off valve sounds handy as well so will look to install one of those
#35
benson1980
benson1980
Right…one perfectly running mower including the shut off, finally! Many thanks again to everyone who has helped, and pointed out that a slightly loose blade in itself causes all sorts of running issues. I believe this was the cause of all my problems and the pressing plates that hold it firmly in place had just worn over time and thus I could not fully tighten it properly.
the kill switch wire was simply disconnected at the other end. Must have pulled it when I was attempting my initial repairs and forgot to connect it back up again.
the kill switch wire was simply disconnected at the other end. Must have pulled it when I was attempting my initial repairs and forgot to connect it back up again.
