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Briggs 5HP IC Generator
#1
Mkala
Mkala
Hello :biggrin:
I just bought for cheap this old Briggs and Stratton 5HP flathead generator ! Gen head is a bosch unit, 2150W
Engine feature cast iron bore, double crankshaft bearings, oil guard.
Its a 132237 0363-01 engine, year 87. Was able to find both owner manual and part list on B&S web site.
If someone as good documentation about this particular engine, please post it. I have the general B&S L-Head engine doc, but some things seems specific to this 132200 serie.
Same for bosh generator, information welcome
Just tried the engine a few minutes, it's revving too high (3500-3600, should be 3000 here for 50 hertz) and was not able to adjust it, have to look how to do governors adjustments.
On the electrical side, voltage look strange, should be 230V but no load was 310V... way too high. Will check this later.
Otherwise, engine is in pretty nice looking condition (except a dent on recoil assembly and some scratches).
Compression seem low, but perhaps generator weight mitigate the sensation of compression. Have to check recoil too, sometimes it latch/does not rewind.
Already changed the oil and check oil guard, working fine. Oil was nasty... Air filter looks ok, prefilter to wash.
Some pics
I just bought for cheap this old Briggs and Stratton 5HP flathead generator ! Gen head is a bosch unit, 2150W
Engine feature cast iron bore, double crankshaft bearings, oil guard.
Its a 132237 0363-01 engine, year 87. Was able to find both owner manual and part list on B&S web site.
If someone as good documentation about this particular engine, please post it. I have the general B&S L-Head engine doc, but some things seems specific to this 132200 serie.
Same for bosh generator, information welcome
Just tried the engine a few minutes, it's revving too high (3500-3600, should be 3000 here for 50 hertz) and was not able to adjust it, have to look how to do governors adjustments.
On the electrical side, voltage look strange, should be 230V but no load was 310V... way too high. Will check this later.
Otherwise, engine is in pretty nice looking condition (except a dent on recoil assembly and some scratches).
Compression seem low, but perhaps generator weight mitigate the sensation of compression. Have to check recoil too, sometimes it latch/does not rewind.
Already changed the oil and check oil guard, working fine. Oil was nasty... Air filter looks ok, prefilter to wash.
Some pics
#3
Fish
Fish
#4
Fish
Fish
Here is a pic off the internet. Pretty much this spring.
The starter problem is a problem with the starter clutch, a spritz of wd-40 may fix it.
The starter problem is a problem with the starter clutch, a spritz of wd-40 may fix it.
#7
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#8
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#12
Russ2251
Russ2251
#13
Mkala
Mkala
Thank you all for all advices, link and explanations ! :thumbsup: really cool.
I think I will discuss thinks by topics, as many replied for same subject...
First, about 50Hz and power. Yes most of people here have habit for 120V / 60Hz, while a big part of the world is 240V 50Hz.
I don't care who's right and who is wrong
(if any), that's not really the subject. In our case it just mean speed for a two poles generator has to be 3000 rpm (50Hz) or 3600 rpm (60Hz). We don't discuss inverter here as the generator speed has not to match with output frequency in this case.
About power, this gen put out 2150 watt, even if it is a bit less than 10 Amps this give the same power as 20 Amps 120V. Yes it's a small one, but it's all I need.
By the way, one advantage of 60Hz is you have more power with the same engine, especially with old one they like revving But this make more noise too....
About the speed adjustment, here are some pictures. Tried to adjust with the thumbnut (which has yellow paint) but does not seem to vary a lot. I checked the linkage and all is free / moving correctly. If I understand correctly, when I turn the screw to move the little black plastic to the left RPM should decrease ? This release the spring behind (second pic).
Will try again as pictured (should be low speed), if not I have to adjust the governor arm as described by Rivet.
For the recoil start / ratchet mechanism, thanks for explanation and video Boudreaux In Eunice La. and SRTsFZ6 !
Was able to spray some WD40 in mechanism and magic happened... seem free for the moment, can clean all later if necessary (easy shroud removal with 3 bolt, not an issue).
Forgot to mention unfortunately some traces on bolts of head, crankcase cover. Someone worked on it before, even if I prefer when not its not a big surprise for a 30y old engine.
Also checked the plug, it's a RCJ8 and the owner manual (but dated of 1997) mention RJ19LM. Seem to be same plugs with different hex size ?
Don't understand the heat rating, no chart mention one for direct replacement to the other. But it has paint on it, should be the original one. The gap was horribly wrong by the way... about 0.40mm. Adjusted to 0.70-0.80 now.
I think I will discuss thinks by topics, as many replied for same subject...
First, about 50Hz and power. Yes most of people here have habit for 120V / 60Hz, while a big part of the world is 240V 50Hz.
I don't care who's right and who is wrong
(if any), that's not really the subject. In our case it just mean speed for a two poles generator has to be 3000 rpm (50Hz) or 3600 rpm (60Hz). We don't discuss inverter here as the generator speed has not to match with output frequency in this case.About power, this gen put out 2150 watt, even if it is a bit less than 10 Amps this give the same power as 20 Amps 120V. Yes it's a small one, but it's all I need.
By the way, one advantage of 60Hz is you have more power with the same engine, especially with old one they like revving
But this make more noise too....About the speed adjustment, here are some pictures. Tried to adjust with the thumbnut (which has yellow paint) but does not seem to vary a lot. I checked the linkage and all is free / moving correctly. If I understand correctly, when I turn the screw to move the little black plastic to the left RPM should decrease ? This release the spring behind (second pic).
Will try again as pictured (should be low speed), if not I have to adjust the governor arm as described by Rivet.
For the recoil start / ratchet mechanism, thanks for explanation and video Boudreaux In Eunice La. and SRTsFZ6 !
Was able to spray some WD40 in mechanism and magic happened... seem free for the moment, can clean all later if necessary (easy shroud removal with 3 bolt, not an issue).
Forgot to mention unfortunately some traces on bolts of head, crankcase cover. Someone worked on it before, even if I prefer when not its not a big surprise for a 30y old engine.
Also checked the plug, it's a RCJ8 and the owner manual (but dated of 1997) mention RJ19LM. Seem to be same plugs with different hex size ?
Don't understand the heat rating, no chart mention one for direct replacement to the other. But it has paint on it, should be the original one. The gap was horribly wrong by the way... about 0.40mm. Adjusted to 0.70-0.80 now.
#15
Mkala
Mkala
Thanks Scott for information. :smile:
I have a small RPM counter / hour meter, the simple one you wind 5 turn on the spark plug cable. It's not the more practice but works great on all my single cylinder engine (checked factory settings on my new ones, adjusted the idle of my old briggs 2.25HP). I tried to turn the nut but was not able to lower or rise the speed.... so now I turned on position I believe it's the lowest RPM (as on picture).
But perhaps I find why : on the carburetor idle screw is fully tightened against spring, perhaps it can lead to 3500 rpm with no load ? So in this case adjusting the tension on spring with thumb nut has no effect... will see.
For the spark plug, it's exactly where I gaped it. I say 0.70-0.80mm because I can put the 0.70 mm gauge but not the 0.80mm - so I should be on
Ok for the head bolt, the 3 longer one of the exhaust.. they where not tight at all. While in, I decided to remove the head to know more on this engine state. Good new, despite some minors scratches (can see on pic, hard to feel event with nail), the cylinder bore looks in very good condition ! Crosshatch still present, so perhaps not so many hours ?
Piston has no slack at all.
So my low compression feeling should not be true, or not come from cylinder.
I plan to check valve clearance too, I have to remove the fuel tank and will clean it in the same time (can see som debris in it). Will check screen of suction tube but I don't plan to open the carb yet (will do later if the motor does not run properly).
I have a small RPM counter / hour meter, the simple one you wind 5 turn on the spark plug cable. It's not the more practice but works great on all my single cylinder engine (checked factory settings on my new ones, adjusted the idle of my old briggs 2.25HP). I tried to turn the nut but was not able to lower or rise the speed.... so now I turned on position I believe it's the lowest RPM (as on picture).
But perhaps I find why : on the carburetor idle screw is fully tightened against spring, perhaps it can lead to 3500 rpm with no load ? So in this case adjusting the tension on spring with thumb nut has no effect... will see.
For the spark plug, it's exactly where I gaped it. I say 0.70-0.80mm because I can put the 0.70 mm gauge but not the 0.80mm - so I should be on
Ok for the head bolt, the 3 longer one of the exhaust.. they where not tight at all. While in, I decided to remove the head to know more on this engine state. Good new, despite some minors scratches (can see on pic, hard to feel event with nail), the cylinder bore looks in very good condition ! Crosshatch still present, so perhaps not so many hours ?
Piston has no slack at all.
So my low compression feeling should not be true, or not come from cylinder.
I plan to check valve clearance too, I have to remove the fuel tank and will clean it in the same time (can see som debris in it). Will check screen of suction tube but I don't plan to open the carb yet (will do later if the motor does not run properly).
#17
A
(Account Closed)
A
(Account Closed)
Here's what Rivets was referring to:
If that is the same set up as yours, my earlier post about turning the screw to adjust is in-correct.
Follow the instructions to the letter from that manual..
If that is the same set up as yours, my earlier post about turning the screw to adjust is in-correct.
Follow the instructions to the letter from that manual..
#18
Ronno6
Ronno6
#20
Russ2251
Russ2251
#21
Ronno6
Ronno6
#22
Mkala
Mkala
Thanks guy for help, pictures
About power distribution, frequency and voltages.... if someone want to discuss that (technically - not politically) please open a thread. It can be very interesting.
But for now, we just have to use the power we have where we live this mean I have to be able to run my engine at 3000 RPM :wink:
I
Thanks Scott for the picture, I already read this passage but not sure I understood all. Have to check how this regulation works. Will be easier with removed tank, and here is a pic of fully turned idle scew :
I removed the tank, it's pretty clean ! :thumbsup: Dumped the residual fuel, have to rinse the tank and clean the "bowl" ? (don't know the name of the top part where fuel is pumped for the carb ? )
So was able to check valve clearances... they are not good. Have 0.10mm IN and the same for EX... should be 0.10mm IN and 0.25 EX. So a bit of extra work for me :tongue:
But I never adjusted side valves, will read how I have to do. I heard of two "methods", the "right" one with valve removal tool, check if they seat properly - lap them if not - and grind the valve until clearance if fine. The other is to put a small file between valve and pushrod and file until clearance is good.
Have no tools (side valve spring compressor, lapping tool) so if I want to do it right I have to find some I think.
But another this mean I have to remove carb (dont want to break or bend pickup tube) and for this I have to remove exhaust... and I'm about worried to break exhaust bolt ?
About power distribution, frequency and voltages.... if someone want to discuss that (technically - not politically) please open a thread. It can be very interesting.
But for now, we just have to use the power we have where we live
this mean I have to be able to run my engine at 3000 RPM :wink:I
Thanks Scott for the picture, I already read this passage but not sure I understood all. Have to check how this regulation works. Will be easier with removed tank, and here is a pic of fully turned idle scew :
I removed the tank, it's pretty clean ! :thumbsup: Dumped the residual fuel, have to rinse the tank and clean the "bowl" ? (don't know the name of the top part where fuel is pumped for the carb ? )
So was able to check valve clearances... they are not good. Have 0.10mm IN and the same for EX... should be 0.10mm IN and 0.25 EX. So a bit of extra work for me :tongue:
But I never adjusted side valves, will read how I have to do. I heard of two "methods", the "right" one with valve removal tool, check if they seat properly - lap them if not - and grind the valve until clearance if fine. The other is to put a small file between valve and pushrod and file until clearance is good.
Have no tools (side valve spring compressor, lapping tool) so if I want to do it right I have to find some I think.
But another this mean I have to remove carb (dont want to break or bend pickup tube) and for this I have to remove exhaust... and I'm about worried to break exhaust bolt ?
#25
Mkala
Mkala
Thanks again Scott !
Yes that why I'm worried about these muffler bolts, they offen snap as I have seen on repair videos...
But as you see on picture, seem hard to reach the carb bolt just near the muffler. So I will try to work when leave it like this, as you suggest.
For the RPM I was reading 3400-3600, I have to set to 3000 (perhaps I said it wrong on posts above)
So, I have to order a side valve spring compressor I think :smile:
For tank and small cup on top, almost clean. The screen on pick up tube too. Just a few "sediments" in main tank, cleaned. No rust, pretty great condition :thumbsup:
Yes that why I'm worried about these muffler bolts, they offen snap as I have seen on repair videos...
But as you see on picture, seem hard to reach the carb bolt just near the muffler. So I will try to work when leave it like this, as you suggest.
For the RPM I was reading 3400-3600, I have to set to 3000 (perhaps I said it wrong on posts above)
So, I have to order a side valve spring compressor I think :smile:
For tank and small cup on top, almost clean. The screen on pick up tube too. Just a few "sediments" in main tank, cleaned. No rust, pretty great condition :thumbsup:
#26
A
(Account Closed)
Sounds like your making great headway.
I'm not familiar with that particular style governor, so I'm pretty much guesstimating there..
My last Briggs 5 HP horizontal engine I owned, was in the early 1970's, on a mini bike (as a 13/14 year old). Different air filter, different governor (made for various speeds, top RPM 3,600) which was removed completely any way!. The rest the same.
Strongest engine for that bike, could do burn outs, probably run 35 MPH @WOT (I'm guessing 6,500 RPM's-not all the time, )
One of my favorite engines, super dependable and fast!!..
A
(Account Closed)
Thanks again Scott !
Yes that why I'm worried about these muffler bolts, they offen snap as I have seen on repair videos...
But as you see on picture, seem hard to reach the carb bolt just near the muffler. So I will try to work when leave it like this, as you suggest.
For the RPM I was reading 3400-3600, I have to set to 3000 (perhaps I said it wrong on posts above)
So, I have to order a side valve spring compressor I think :smile:
For tank and small cup on top, almost clean. The screen on pick up tube too. Just a few "sediments" in main tank, cleaned. No rust, pretty great condition :thumbsup:
Sounds like your making great headway.
I'm not familiar with that particular style governor, so I'm pretty much guesstimating there..
My last Briggs 5 HP horizontal engine I owned, was in the early 1970's, on a mini bike (as a 13/14 year old). Different air filter, different governor (made for various speeds, top RPM 3,600) which was removed completely any way!. The rest the same.
Strongest engine for that bike, could do burn outs, probably run 35 MPH @WOT (I'm guessing 6,500 RPM's-not all the time,
)One of my favorite engines, super dependable and fast!!..
#27
Mkala
Mkala
Thank's Scott ! Yes for the moment it's going well !
Yes for sure you can't know all governor styles, including this old particular one...
What I just try to do is thinking and try to understand what was wrong or not set right; so when I fire it up I can quickly find the right setting.
But will see, now I removed the plate I see on the back the shut-off switch where the wire come (but not on this particular one, because its on the panel where the choke is) so I know for sure the low RPM setting (and that what we said just before).
Yes I see this engine is appreciated for racing ! It is one good strong choice for sure, and is the basis for the old Raptor racing engine
I think your mini bike was really fun
So finally I changed my mind... as I seen the muffler was already removed (bent tabs), I see it's leaking too... so I decided to give it a try to remove it. Fortunately it's was way easier to remove than I expected, not so tight, small back & forth movement to start and increasing range and voila ! And now I understand why it is leaking : there is no gasket anymore... and there is two gaskets on the intake side, strange not ? I think it's the first time that carburator is removed, no traces on screw, nor on carburetor (adjust or where the diaphragm is)
So now I have all access to valve springs. The exhaust one looks pretty tight, should no be a big problem with appropriate tool.
Took the time to clean carbon deposits too. Checked bore, it's in spec so was not re-bored.
By the way someone know the meaning of marking on the piston ?
Yes for sure you can't know all governor styles, including this old particular one...
What I just try to do is thinking and try to understand what was wrong or not set right; so when I fire it up I can quickly find the right setting.
But will see, now I removed the plate I see on the back the shut-off switch where the wire come (but not on this particular one, because its on the panel where the choke is) so I know for sure the low RPM setting (and that what we said just before).
Yes I see this engine is appreciated for racing ! It is one good strong choice for sure, and is the basis for the old Raptor racing engine
I think your mini bike was really fun
So finally I changed my mind... as I seen the muffler was already removed (bent tabs), I see it's leaking too... so I decided to give it a try to remove it. Fortunately it's was way easier to remove than I expected, not so tight, small back & forth movement to start and increasing range and voila ! And now I understand why it is leaking : there is no gasket anymore... and there is two gaskets on the intake side, strange not ? I think it's the first time that carburator is removed, no traces on screw, nor on carburetor (adjust or where the diaphragm is)
So now I have all access to valve springs. The exhaust one looks pretty tight, should no be a big problem with appropriate tool.
Took the time to clean carbon deposits too. Checked bore, it's in spec so was not re-bored.
By the way someone know the meaning of marking on the piston ?
#29
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#30
A
(Account Closed)
A
(Account Closed)
This is posted for Boudreaux In Eunice La. (as requested);
He'll chime in re setting the governor:
He'll chime in re setting the governor:
#31
Fish
Fish
#32
Fish
Fish
#33
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Mkala you see that tang inside the circle ???? That is your main governor adjustment........ Bending it up will decrease your RPM's......
That adjustment knob is more or less a fine tuner .................
Ok just like the instructions in the manual says.........
Step 1 release spring tension on nut..... ETC ETC.............
By bending the tang you are getting the RPM's close to what you need then you fine tune it to your RPM and Hertz / Cycles with the speed adjusting nut..............
I hope this kind of clears it up a little bit for you.......
Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!
The diagram is on post #17 I think ~!~!
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
This is posted for Boudreaux In Eunice La. (as requested);
He'll chime in re setting the governor:
Mkala you see that tang inside the circle ???? That is your main governor adjustment........ Bending it up will decrease your RPM's......
That adjustment knob is more or less a fine tuner .................
Ok just like the instructions in the manual says.........
Step 1 release spring tension on nut..... ETC ETC.............
By bending the tang you are getting the RPM's close to what you need then you fine tune it to your RPM and Hertz / Cycles with the speed adjusting nut..............
I hope this kind of clears it up a little bit for you.......
Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!
The diagram is on post #17 I think ~!~!
#34
Mkala
Mkala
Scott, the muffler looks almost straight... and there is a plate between it and the block (the plate the come in front to lock bolts with bending tabs).
But on the part chart the gasket between the plate and the block is missing. And there is some remnants on this plate, exactly.
For the carburetor double gasket, looks like they a factory but I find that strange too ! again carburetors mounting screws looks new. I'll try to replace with only one...
Boudreaux In Eunice La ha yes it's for the cubic inches ! Nice explanation thanks ! I did not think at this at all, cubic inches does not speak to me... don't have the habit of this unit. For me it's a 206cc, but its a 12.6cu in too This has probably something to do in the model serie naming : 130000
Thanks for the information for setting the governor too ! Yes I see this tang, ok I understood. It's probably while I turned the thumb nut it was only making small changes !
The last mystery thing is this tang has no mark on it, so never modified I think. But while releasing spring tension with bending it I can lower RPM. Yes I checked the posted diagram and have stored the L-Head manual, it's quite handy
Merci mon ami !
Fish, I posted clearances a few post ago, but here what I measured :
Exhaust between 0.10 and 0.15mm (can put 0.10mm feeler gauge but not the 0.15)
Intake almost 0.15mm (gauge is tight, should be more free)
So I have to increase EX to 0.25, and do a small touch on intake. From what I know EX is more prone to "move", so it make sense ?
By the way I use two feeler gauge sets, one good but with low resolution (0.10mm) and one cheap with more feelers, and they both match. Of course I check that with piston at TDC, on compression stroke.
But on the part chart the gasket between the plate and the block is missing. And there is some remnants on this plate, exactly.
For the carburetor double gasket, looks like they a factory but I find that strange too ! again carburetors mounting screws looks new. I'll try to replace with only one...
Boudreaux In Eunice La ha yes it's for the cubic inches ! Nice explanation thanks ! I did not think at this at all, cubic inches does not speak to me... don't have the habit of this unit. For me it's a 206cc, but its a 12.6cu in too
This has probably something to do in the model serie naming : 130000Thanks for the information for setting the governor too ! Yes I see this tang, ok I understood. It's probably while I turned the thumb nut it was only making small changes !
The last mystery thing is this tang has no mark on it, so never modified I think. But while releasing spring tension with bending it I can lower RPM. Yes I checked the posted diagram and have stored the L-Head manual, it's quite handy
Merci mon ami !
Fish, I posted clearances a few post ago, but here what I measured :
Exhaust between 0.10 and 0.15mm (can put 0.10mm feeler gauge but not the 0.15)
Intake almost 0.15mm (gauge is tight, should be more free)
So I have to increase EX to 0.25, and do a small touch on intake. From what I know EX is more prone to "move", so it make sense ?
By the way I use two feeler gauge sets, one good but with low resolution (0.10mm) and one cheap with more feelers, and they both match. Of course I check that with piston at TDC, on compression stroke.
#35
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#36
Mkala
Mkala
Ok, yes I see the right tool with the fork style to bend the tang... but when I see the crankcases bolts I think the guy was working on before me was in hurry or not that careful ! :thumbdown: So perhaps it had the tool... probably not
Interesting, never think with the cubic inches. I saw the size increase with number, but now as a more clear signification ! It's nice to learn things thank for sharing ! :smile:
A plus mon ami
Interesting, never think with the cubic inches. I saw the size increase with number, but now as a more clear signification ! It's nice to learn things thank for sharing ! :smile:
A plus mon ami
#37
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#39
Mkala
Mkala
Boudreaux, I'll check, but with 7 hours difference will be difficult to listen I think
Scott, perhaps found an explanation on a part site : that for another gasket, but they say stacking two is better to insulate the carb from block heat. Make sense, as all is aluminum heat conductivity is good.
I just orderd the compressor tool for valve springs and the muffler gasket.
Now I wonder if I have to lap the valve. I don't wont to order the good briggs part, to expensive for my occasional use, I'm not a pro.
But I can find plastic or wood handle lapper for cheap. About the compound I dont know what I need ? Found these two available on ebay, any thougts about them ?
https://ebay.us/TZmapd
https://ebay.us/WtGxGh
Scott, perhaps found an explanation on a part site : that for another gasket, but they say stacking two is better to insulate the carb from block heat. Make sense, as all is aluminum heat conductivity is good.
I just orderd the compressor tool for valve springs and the muffler gasket.
Now I wonder if I have to lap the valve. I don't wont to order the good briggs part, to expensive for my occasional use, I'm not a pro.
But I can find plastic or wood handle lapper for cheap. About the compound I dont know what I need ? Found these two available on ebay, any thougts about them ?
https://ebay.us/TZmapd
https://ebay.us/WtGxGh
#40
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#41
Fish
Fish
#42
Mkala
Mkala
#44
Ronno6
Ronno6
#45
Mkala
Mkala
This is a good idea Scott ! I'll try as soon as I got tools (valve spring compressor & lapping tool)
Ronno6 I prefer burned gasoline smell :tongue: (for the engine exhaust :laughing: )
! I'll try as soon as I got tools (valve spring compressor & lapping tool) Ronno6 I prefer burned gasoline smell :tongue: (for the engine exhaust :laughing: )
#46
Fish
Fish
#47
Fish
Fish
Here is what you need.
#49
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#50
Mkala
Mkala
#51
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#53
Mkala
Mkala
#54
Mkala
Mkala
Hi there,
Received my tool to play with !
Its a bit less easy to use than what I think. The spring on exhaust side is strong, but once the tool is installed it easy to remove the in of the valve.
On the intake side spring is more soft, I was able to quickly remove the retainer without it... but will be helpful to re-installation of both !
The valves looks nice, seats too. Don't plan to do anything on them except cleaning and adjusting lash.
EDIT : intake valve and guide are fine, but I have some play on exhaust valve. Don't have the tool to check bushing, but I can see an feel some marks on the valve stem :
Received my tool to play with !
Its a bit less easy to use than what I think. The spring on exhaust side is strong, but once the tool is installed it easy to remove the in of the valve.
On the intake side spring is more soft, I was able to quickly remove the retainer without it... but will be helpful to re-installation of both !
The valves looks nice, seats too. Don't plan to do anything on them except cleaning and adjusting lash.
EDIT : intake valve and guide are fine, but I have some play on exhaust valve. Don't have the tool to check bushing, but I can see an feel some marks on the valve stem :
#56
Fish
Fish
#57
Fish
Fish
Here, I dug out a junk block. If I can find where I put my engine tools, I'll be lucky.
#58
Fish
Fish
Here, I'll just look at the intake valve for now.
#59
Fish
Fish
Well, I found my Neway valve cutting set. It came with the 30 and 45 degree head, and a wide assortment of guides for different valve stem sizes.
#60
Fish
Fish
You get the correct size guide, and put it together like this. You have to clamp the end of the stem in a vice, protecting the valve with an old piece of fuel hose or something, and pulling and rotating the cutter to cut the valve.
This is an antique model, I think the have a fancier setup these days.
This is an antique model, I think the have a fancier setup these days.
#61
Fish
Fish
The first turn or two...........
#62
Fish
Fish
Almost done...
#63
Fish
Fish
Here........
Now to find the seat cutters....
It might take a while......
Now to find the seat cutters....
It might take a while......
#64
Mkala
Mkala
Thanks Romore ! It has more play than intake, but yes make sense because exhaust valve become more hot.
I was able to determine valve guide is less than 6.40mm (but close).
Thanks Fish for test and pictures ! This tool looks to work very nicely !
Machining is not an option, don't know a shop near me. And now with cheap stuff I doubt lot of shops will still machine blocks, cut valves and things like this :/
On the other hand, even if tis long do something, I have all the time that the job need because I do this on my free time, and I don't count hours :smile:
EDIT :
Found the reject tool is 0.265" / 6.73mm. So my guide is in perfect state. Factory bore is 6.35mm if I understand correctly.
http://ppeten.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2255&start=10
I was able to determine valve guide is less than 6.40mm (but close).
Thanks Fish for test and pictures ! This tool looks to work very nicely !
Machining is not an option, don't know a shop near me. And now with cheap stuff I doubt lot of shops will still machine blocks, cut valves and things like this :/
On the other hand, even if tis long do something, I have all the time that the job need because I do this on my free time, and I don't count hours :smile:
EDIT :
Found the reject tool is 0.265" / 6.73mm. So my guide is in perfect state. Factory bore is 6.35mm if I understand correctly.
http://ppeten.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2255&start=10
#65
Fish
Fish
#66
Fish
Fish
#67
Mkala
Mkala
Yes this is definitely a nice kit. But for professionals; I don't plan to buy a lot of tool, especially specific / expensive one
In the BS flathead manual, they talk about this kit but they talk about lapping too - as the final way to make valve and seat fit together.
In the BS flathead manual, they talk about this kit but they talk about lapping too - as the final way to make valve and seat fit together.
#68
Fish
Fish
The valve guide "gauge" is/was definitely a waste of money.
#69
Fish
Fish
Since I found the seat cutter, I'll throw up the pics.
#70
Mkala
Mkala
Thnaks for the pictures !
Great tool you have there to cut seat an valve !
Ha yes the gauge can you confirm the diameter of it ?
Thanks
And by the way yes, I'm from Switzerland. This mean not really the country of small engines, at least less than North America. And for spares and tools, you can double the price in the USA and add shipping... it's like this
Great tool you have there to cut seat an valve !
Ha yes the gauge
can you confirm the diameter of it ?Thanks
And by the way yes, I'm from Switzerland. This mean not really the country of small engines, at least less than North America. And for spares and tools, you can double the price in the USA and add shipping... it's like this
#71
Fish
Fish
That gauge is for the smaller engines, which is likely for your engine, and to be honest, never really bothered with the thing. It is I guess a go/no-go gauge, if it goes in the hole, you should install a new guide.
I am going to pass on doing a valve guide here....
It is a neat kit though....
I am going to pass on doing a valve guide here....
It is a neat kit though....
#72
Mkala
Mkala
Thanks, unfortunately can't read on the pic
#73
Fish
Fish
#74
Mkala
Mkala
Its not easier to tell me the value ?
I can display the image full size, thanks, i know - but the front side on the scale is still on full shadow...
By the way, you have all the range of B&S tools it's look like
I can display the image full size, thanks, i know - but the front side on the scale is still on full shadow...
By the way, you have all the range of B&S tools it's look like
#75
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
#76
Fish
Fish
#78
Mkala
Mkala
Many thanks to both of you, it's close to what I read on other forum.
So the valve guide is really in perfect shape, just a few scoring on the exhaust valve stem (I already sand/polished it - this remove protruding material, even if it wont fill the missing material...).
Now waiting valve lapping tool (can be long...) and I find someone that can give me a little bit of lapping paste/compound.
No major progress these days... but lot of other things to do - and no hurry - this is is side project :wink:
So the valve guide is really in perfect shape, just a few scoring on the exhaust valve stem (I already sand/polished it - this remove protruding material, even if it wont fill the missing material...).
Now waiting valve lapping tool (can be long...) and I find someone that can give me a little bit of lapping paste/compound.
No major progress these days... but lot of other things to do - and no hurry - this is is side project :wink:
#79
Mkala
Mkala
Tried to remove the big dent on the shroud, but as you can see I'm not a body worker :laughing:
At lest it's better, even if it is far from perfect Removed this ugly orange Bosch sticker in the same time.
A plus
At lest it's better, even if it is far from perfect Removed this ugly orange Bosch sticker in the same time.
A plus
#80
Mkala
Mkala
I continue my monologue :laughing:
Was able to borrow a valve lapping set, with fine paste and asmall suction cup that just fit on my small briggs valves !
So do a quick lapping, ring is not a the same place on exhaust and intake... more inside on exhaust valve and more outside on intake valve. But they are both continuous nice rings so it should be fine ?
Was able to borrow a valve lapping set, with fine paste and asmall suction cup that just fit on my small briggs valves !
So do a quick lapping, ring is not a the same place on exhaust and intake... more inside on exhaust valve and more outside on intake valve. But they are both continuous nice rings so it should be fine ?
#82
Mkala
Mkala
Yes, I think it's quite a good way to do it, but I don't have valve and seat cutters (and don't plan to buy some for just engine - I'm not in the business, just an hobby).
So I filed down the valve stem until having the good clearance, reassembled the valve springs and retainers, put back breather assembly.
Re-linked the carb to the governor - including hooking the spring, remounted the tank and cleaned the head !
Next will be to remount the control panel, re-wire the kill switch / oil safety kill, re assemble the head (but did not received my torque wrench yet... ), the air guide and the shroud with the recoil - and after I will be able to fire it up
So I filed down the valve stem until having the good clearance, reassembled the valve springs and retainers, put back breather assembly.
Re-linked the carb to the governor - including hooking the spring, remounted the tank and cleaned the head !
Next will be to remount the control panel, re-wire the kill switch / oil safety kill, re assemble the head (but did not received my torque wrench yet... ), the air guide and the shroud with the recoil - and after I will be able to fire it up
#83
Fish
Fish
#84
Mkala
Mkala
#85
Fish
Fish
#86
Mkala
Mkala
Ha yes, I was wondering why clearance always getting closer over time. Yes bad seating valves, if you don't solve it quickly this can make a lot of damage I believe you.
Finished motor assembly - started with remounting the head, with proper torquing sequence (all is in L-Head Briggs manual).
Than mounted the muffler with new OEM gasket - that should seat way better now. After this, put back the control panel and torqued all the screw of the tank. Next is time to rewire the kill switch and oil sefaty switch. Tested it again with grounding it's terminal to block, light blink and no spark when pulling the rope. After ungrounding, nice spark at plug as oil is already in the crankcase.
Now I can remount the recoil, looks now the ratchet mecanisim works perfelty after some spry of WD40 in it - thanks for the tip. Time to remounte air cleaner assembly too.
All is shiny and ready, pre-filter washed and drying, just have to put it back with air filter and put fuel in the tank ! can't wait to test it, and try to adjust RPM
Finished motor assembly - started with remounting the head, with proper torquing sequence (all is in L-Head Briggs manual).
Than mounted the muffler with new OEM gasket - that should seat way better now. After this, put back the control panel and torqued all the screw of the tank. Next is time to rewire the kill switch and oil sefaty switch. Tested it again with grounding it's terminal to block, light blink and no spark when pulling the rope. After ungrounding, nice spark at plug as oil is already in the crankcase.
Now I can remount the recoil, looks now the ratchet mecanisim works perfelty after some spry of WD40 in it - thanks for the tip. Time to remounte air cleaner assembly too.
All is shiny and ready, pre-filter washed and drying, just have to put it back with air filter and put fuel in the tank ! can't wait to test it, and try to adjust RPM
#88
Fish
Fish
#90
Mkala
Mkala
#91
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#92
Mkala
Mkala
Merci Boudreaux :smile:
It thanks to you and all the others sharing the knowledge here, on this forum, this really help ! I learned a lot and I'm more than happy to have one of these good old flat head in my little "small engine fleet"
One last question, I have the air-filter retainer in plastic, like this : https://goo.gl/images/85yPRr
This is part 643A on the view : https://www.firedog.com/catalog/bri...299/132232-0363-01/mufflers-air-cleaners-fuel
I find this thing useless, the filter seem to seat better without it; perhaps I have not understood something ?
See you
It thanks to you and all the others sharing the knowledge here, on this forum, this really help ! I learned a lot and I'm more than happy to have one of these good old flat head in my little "small engine fleet"
One last question, I have the air-filter retainer in plastic, like this : https://goo.gl/images/85yPRr
This is part 643A on the view : https://www.firedog.com/catalog/bri...299/132232-0363-01/mufflers-air-cleaners-fuel
I find this thing useless, the filter seem to seat better without it; perhaps I have not understood something ?
See you
#93
Mkala
Mkala
Received my small range (5-25Nm) 1/4" torque wrench, so now I am able to properly torque bolt like head and muffler :thumbsup:
Already have a 1/2" bigger (28-210Nm) one since a while, but it's more usefull for car than small engines.
Already have a 1/2" bigger (28-210Nm) one since a while, but it's more usefull for car than small engines.
#95
Mkala
Mkala
#96
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
#97
Mkala
Mkala
#99
Mkala
Mkala