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I just recently rebuilt my Briggs and Stratton, Murray mower. After getting it all back together, now it doesn't want to run. I have done all of the normal things like rebuild the carb... a few times. Check the plugs.. you know, all of that good stuff.

So, if I try to start the mower... IF it starts, it will not idle for long before dying. IF, I move the throttle all the way up, it revs up so much that it seems the engine is going to blow! I am not sure what I can do at this point. Maybe I messed something up on the linkage for the throttle? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am currently uploading a video to YouTube and will post as soon as I can.

Any Ideas?
Model: 42a707-1237-01
Murray 46901X92b

Video should be live shortly

You are having a fuel delivery problem. not sure were to go with that other than find out why you are not getting fuel. the other thing is you need to recheck, reset the static governor setting.

IF it is running wild in some instances, it is getting fuel, adjust governor, I can send you a service Manual IF you like, address below, put in proper format and remind me engine model number and what you want.

Walt Conner
wconner5 at frontier dot com

Thanks guys, what is the static governor vs governor? Is it the one inside the engine? I am not sure what else to check to make sure it is getting fuel, the lines are all clear and the carb has been rebuilt numerous times.

The engine will run at times, if I find that sweet spot on the throttle... but it wont idle low and if I put the throttle all the way up, it runs until I get scared it is going to blow and then I throttle it back down.

A manual would be great, I got one from Briggs but it didn't say anything about the governor or the throttle. Did you guys see the video?

Now lets take things from the top.
Was it running before you pulled it down and why did you pull it down ?
While it was apart what exactly did you do ?
What are your valve clearences ?
You would have needed to adjust them to compensate for the depth of the valve work you did.
Did you check them springs on or springs off ?
Did you touch the cam ?
Have you tried to start it with the coils disconnected from each other ?
What exctly did you do to the carby ?
The throttle linkage should come back and touch the idle stop screw if not some thing is not back together correct.
If you insist on doing videos please get some bloody light in there, hard to work out what is going on when all I can see is a shakey black blob.

Is the flywheel key intact ?
what is the compression ? it looked like the engine was spinning way too qhick of a motor with good compression.
If the valves are opening & closing at the right time and the spark is happening at the right time the engine will fire up on starting fluid, even with no carb there at all.
So that tells me valve timing / spark timming is off or not enough compression or any combination of these three.

"Have you tried to start it with the coils disconnected from each other ?"

Did you check the engine model number?

Walt Conner

bertsmobile1 said:

Now let’s take things from the top.
Was it running before you pulled it down and why did you pull it down?
Pull it down, meaning rebuild it? If so, I hit a sidewalk and thought I broke my flywheel key. I didn’t, come to find out it was a broken rod, so I replaced the rod and piston. After further investigation, the sump was leaking oil, so I replaced that. It was working fine prior to this, although I think the compression was bad.

While it was apart what exactly did you do?
I replaced the following:
Flywheel key
Piston
Rod
Sump
Oil flingy thing in sump
All gaskets (Carb Included)
Replaced springs on carb screws
Replaced diaphragm and all pieces on fuel pump.
Replaced air filter and all pieces involved with that.
Replaced flywheel gear
Cleaned everything else.

What are your valve clearances?
I thought that didn’t apply to this motor. So, I don’t know that one.

You would have needed to adjust them to compensate for the depth of the valve work you did.
I took the valve “grinder gunk” and made sure they sat flush with the “block”

Did you check them springs on or springs off?
Springs where off while I was doing the work here.

Did you touch the cam?
Quite a few times :smile: . It was spinning and everything just fine, didn’t seem to have any problems there.

Have you tried to start it with the coils disconnected from each other?
I am lost on coils, maybe I am just having a brain fart right now, I will go google this and find out haha.

What exactly did you do to the carby?
I just took it apart and cleaned it, replaced gaskets and what not. Didn’t touch much of the innards except for the float, I replaced that.

The throttle linkage should come back and touch the idle stop screw if not something is not back together correct.
This is where I assumed my problem was, however I never touched the throttle linkage except to take the “wire” off.

If you insist on doing videos please get some bloody light in there, hard to work out what is going on when all I can see is a shakey black blob.

This was unnecessary, but… there are far worse videos out there. I tried to get up close so you could actually see what it was doing when it was started.

Is the flywheel key intact?
It was, but I already purchased a replacement so I installed that.


what is the compression? it looked like the engine was spinning way too quick of a motor with good compression.
How do I check this, I believe I had some problems here originally anyway?

If the valves are opening & closing at the right time and the spark is happening at the right time the engine will fire up on starting fluid, even with no carb there at all.
They are opening and closing, you can spin the cam and the pistons and valves open and close… timing on the other hand, I guess I am not 100% sure if they are correct.

So that tells me valve timing / spark timing is off or not enough compression or any combination of these three.

I guess what I dont understand from all of this is, if the timing is off, why would it start and run "fine". I can get it to start, then if I try to throttle up, it seems like it is going to blow up. If I idle down to much, it dies.

Click to expand...

Tinkerer200 said:

"Have you tried to start it with the coils disconnected from each other ?"

Did you check the engine model number?

Walt Conner

Click to expand...

It is in my first post. I am not sure about the coils?

So, I just tore down the motor again, I have a feeling the timing "gear" needs to be fixed. Also, I wasn't sure about the compression or valves so I figured I might as well get it ready for the weekend to start working on it again.

Going to upload another video with some things I seen that will probably be apart of the issue. I tried to upload pictures, but it isn't working.

Video of it running after rebuild, just a false hope!

Video will be here of the other stuff:
https://youtu.be/75Rg5djFvig

You are falling into the novice trap by playing with too many things at once so ou get lost as to what was good and what was bad.

Now you need to understand a few things.

Firstly the throttle makes the engine go fast.
The govenor makes it go slow
Between the two is a spring.
So when thoes bob weights swing out they ill be closing off the throttle.
When they fall back in it allows the engine to go faster.

Second, valve gap is vital.
Too big and the engine will not start and will "blow" back through the carb excessively.
Too small and again it wont start and will backfire everywhere.

There is no mechanical adjustment on B & S Sidevalve engines.
If the valve gap is too small you pull out the valve and carefully grind a bit off then end of the stem with an oilstone.
Too big and you need to either dress down the valve face and / or the valve seat.
So if you recut the valve seats then there will not be enough valve clearence for the engine to run properly.
When grinding down the valve stems to restore proper clearences then you stop at the maximum gap if you are measuring the gap by holding the valve closed with your thumb.

Finally you are there, we are not. So we can only see what is actually visible in the video which is very little.
Every time you cranked the engine the throttle & choke levers moved which is very confusing, particularly if the engine was causing that to happen and it was not you moving the levers which you should not have been doing.
No matter how hard it is to see detail, you will not notice , because you are there and saw exactly what was happening.
It would have been a lot more benificial to us if the camera was sitting still on a tripod or even a milk crate

A quick way to check for valve sealing is turn the flywheel to where the valves are completely closed, and put your thumb on top and try to turn the valve. If it turns it isn't sealing. From the video it appears there may be a problem with the valves not sealing properly, as well as maybe and issue with the carb needle valve leaking and allowing too much fuel to be pumped in to the engine.

Another funny thing about the old opposed twin briggs. the cylinder on the right side if you were sitting on the seat has a bad habit of egg shaping the cylinder, and also having the exhaust valve seat come out of the block.

Thanks guys, I will take a look this after evening. I believe the valves are seating properly, but I will use the check of twisting it when it is closed. I did the grinding thing mentioned and sounds like I did it all on par with your suggestions.

In my new video, which is same quality(beware haha) I Show the valves and how one of them is sticking open for some reason. I am going to try and redo everything this weekend. I will try and get a good setup for the video.

Video of the valves

Still getting similar behavior after today.

1. I checked the timing and that is correct, the dots match-up.
2. I checked the valves and they are seated correctly... "I used the try and spin them when they are shut, trick"
3. It feels like it has more compression now, not sure on this though.
4. after it sat for awhile, I pushed it back in the garage and a bunch of gas came leaking out of the muffler?
5. I messed around with the screw for how much "gas is put in the carb" I tightened it all the way and then went counter-clockwise for a turn and a half.

I am about ready to just go buy another one... I have no idea what to do now....


Here is another video. Wont be up for awhile (2/20 - 11:07) give it 30 minutes or so..

I didn't see it start in the video. So will it start?

Daquiri_briggs said:

Still getting similar behavior after today.

1. I checked the timing and that is correct, the dots match-up.
2. I checked the valves and they are seated correctly... "I used the try and spin them when they are shut, trick"
3. It feels like it has more compression now, not sure on this though.
4. after it sat for awhile, I pushed it back in the garage and a bunch of gas came leaking out of the muffler?
5. I messed around with the screw for how much "gas is put in the carb" I tightened it all the way and then went counter-clockwise for a turn and a half.

I am about ready to just go buy another one... I have no idea what to do now....

Click to expand...

For the umpteenth time
WHAT IS THE BLOODY VALVE LASH
It does not matter a tinkers curse how well they seat if they are bloody well still open 50 degrees past where they should have closed
You have to measure the space between the the ned of the valve and the cam follower at its widest gap.
Both valves inlet and exhaust.
IF YOU HAVE RESEATED THE VALVES THEN YOU HAVE CHANGED THE VALVE LASH
Which was most likely what was wrong in the first place but you steadfastly refuse to measure it why ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

bertsmobile1 said:

For the umpteenth time
WHAT IS THE BLOODY VALVE LASH
It does not matter a tinkers curse how well they seat if they are bloody well still open 50 degrees past where they should have closed
You have to measure the space between the the ned of the valve and the cam follower at its widest gap.
Both valves inlet and exhaust.
IF YOU HAVE RESEATED THE VALVES THEN YOU HAVE CHANGED THE VALVE LASH
Which was most likely what was wrong in the first place but you steadfastly refuse to measure it why ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Click to expand...

Maybe because I am not a mechanic and know all of this off the top of my head? Maybe that is why I created an account here to look for help? Maybe I didn't know what a "valve Lash was"?

You need to chill out, I am here for help...... I clearly stated I had no idea of how to do the valve stuff other than"grind them down" .... Looks like that is next on the list.

In the mean time, go for a walk or something geez!

Mikel1 said:

I didn't see it start in the video. So will it start?

Click to expand...

No, it doesn't start, that is the problem. I just checked the timing yesterday and did "something" to the valves. I thought I knew what it meant but obviously I was wrong...
I am going to figure out what "valve lash" is and see about checking that next.

Valve lash is the space between the top of the valve tappet and the bottom of the valve stem, also referred to as valve clearance. . On your engine it is adjusted by grinding small amount off the bottom of the valve stem until you reach the correct clearance when measured with a feeler gauge.

I am concerned with the gas coming out of the muffler. Makes me think that the needle valve in the carb isn't sealing and it is leaking into the engine. If it is leaking and you crank it with a fuel pump. it will be like tipping the gas can into the carb while you are trying to crank it. So may want to recheck carb, to make sure the needle/float are working properly. Also make sure the float doesn't have gas inside which will cause it so sink and not seal off the gas at the correct amount in the carb.

I will check that, the float on the carb should be good. I bought a new one because the old one was doing just that. Thank you for the definition, that is very helpful! I did buy a gauge so now I just need to check that and follow back up with y'all.

Chill Bert, he said eariler he didn't know what valve clearance (valve lash) was. He said he was a novice. This manual will probably help, patience will also.

https://doc-0c-5o-docs.googleuserco...253/*/0B6NaqjIxWV1ybHphbUNTQUNNR2s?e=download

Daquiri_briggs, just be patience with us and we will get you straightened out. You have to understand, when people say they are a novice, we assume intermediate novice, not beginner novice. So until we figure out we are dealing with a true novice, and shift into teaching mode, the senior techs will push for something we assume you understand, but will be way over your head.


If we mention something that you don't understand, don't be afraid to speak up, and ask what we are talking about. Because if you don't ask we will assume that you understand. Then will complain when we don't get what we asked for.

In my first reply I asked you a lot of questions because we need to know what you have done, so we can work out what might be wrong.
Your response to the valve gap question was

I thought that didn’t apply to this motor. So, I don’t know that one.

Click to expand...

Well I would not have asked the quesion if it was not important to know the answer.
You did not say that you don't know what it is or how to measure it your response was you did niot think it mattered then promptly ignored it.

I even went to the effort of explaining it in a subsequent post and you still ignored it.

The you pulled the motor apat again with out being to to do it and pronounced everything was all right despite the fact that you claim to have no mechanical knowledge so how do you know everything is OK ?
Next post you are making more adjustments to god only knows what on the carburettor which will make absolutely no difference to fuel accumulating in the muffler which by the amount of cranking you did could have been no more than condensation, we don't know because we are here and you are there.

You have come to here because you are in way over your head and drowing.
We all understnd that and are quite willing to walk you through the job one bolt at a time if necessary.
However in order fr it to work you need to do what you are instructed to do, nothing more, nothing less.
Just carry out some basic insructions and if you do not understand how or why then ask.
Engine diagnosis is a SYSTEMATIC process you start with easily measurable things like valve lash, magneto coil clearences, even valve timing marks then go on to more difficult bits.
But you have to do what you are instructed to, nothing else or it just will not work and you have just as much chance of getting it working as if you tipped your tool box out and locked a couple of monkeys in with the mower overnight.

The carburettor is a good example.
The only thing that stops the fuel pouring out of the carb, running down the manifold filling up the cylinder then pouring into the muffler is the float valve. That is it, the float valve, nothing more nothing less and nothing to adjust.
no screws, no levers, no springs. Absolutely nothing other than the float valve .
SO if you are told it is the float valve your responce is "how do I check it" ? and definately not

I will check that, the float on the carb should be good. I bought a new one because the old one was doing just that

Click to expand...

Obviously the carb is not good or it would not be leaking and if you did not know how to check it or fix it in the first instance how will you know what to do now ?
Floats rarely need to be replaced.
Float valves ( some times called needles ) do
And where possible the valve seat as well. but I don't think that carb has a replaceable seat, others will know for sure.
And if not replacable the seat needs to be cleaned and on some occasions a very light reface of the sealing edge.

Joining this forum will not do anything towards fixing your problems.
Carrying out the instructions you are given, to the letter, will.
If you don't know why, just ask we will be happy to explain. ( you might notice I actually tried to do that in my second responce )
Most of us like explaining why but most "customers" just want to get their engine running and don't seem to care about understanding what they are doing, they just want to mow their grass, yesterday.

There is no one here that gets their jollies by trying to belittle, humiliate or insult others, we are all here to help or to be helped.

As for the videos, stop trying to post them.
To a large extent they are a waste of your time making and our time watching.
A good large clear well focused well lit still image of the entire side of the engine where we can clearly see what is connected to where is 1000 times more beneficial than a dark fuzzy out of focus video .
So for instance a photo of the cam showing the timing marks would be good. some of them have more than 1 set of marks.
Another photo of the govenor & oil slinger ( paddle wheelie thing ) would be good.
A close up photo of the float valve would be great and if taken agaainst a medium grey or dull white surface it would be even better.
Then we can eliminate every possible cause of your troubles, one at a time till you are scooting around with a nice big smile on your dial.
The photos will also be handy for you to keep for refference because what is shown in the manual and what is on your engine sometimes look nothing like each other.

Berts and CO.



What I can answer now...

I replaced the float because the old one had gas(some liquid) in it. I will go get some pictures of the carburetor, but I will have to put it in a video format because this site still isn't letting me upload pictures. Using the old or new function. I will see what else I could do for pictures.


When I said I would check that, I was talking about the valve lash. I can check the gap to see if it is right, now that I understand what it is.

I took the engine back apart to make sure that the timing was right, and now I at least know the dots are lined up.


I shall return...

Does this show ya'll the pictures

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/ffa706kgv9jlcch/AABoSJ39gCfZ--oXCWiZK-gla

I was able to add some pictures finally to "my album", but they didnt turn out well.... the link has the originals.

Let me know what you want me to do from here?

Pictures are great.
On drop box is even better as we can magnify them till we can see what we need to.
The float needle looks good is it the original one ?
On that particular type of carb the float height is adjustable by carefully bending the brass tap the needle sits on.
You nearly always have to make an adjustment to compensate for differences in manufacture and the solder on yours looks pretty crook
I am not 100% on the actual height as I arely ever work on that motor, they are quite rare down here.
The exact metod will be in the manual that was in a previous link, If it does not make sense to you ask and we will guide you

Next if you have not already put the heads back on, do not do it till we are sure the valves have the correct clearences as you have to take the valves out to alter the gap.
I will start an arguement with this comment but I never reuse an old head gasket no matter how good it looks.
Too much work to save $ 30 if they give way

bertsmobile1 said:

Pictures are great.
On drop box is even better as we can magnify them till we can see what we need to.
The float needle looks good is it the original one ?
On that particular type of carb the float height is adjustable by carefully bending the brass tap the needle sits on.
You nearly always have to make an adjustment to compensate for differences in manufacture and the solder on yours looks pretty crook
I am not 100% on the actual height as I arely ever work on that motor, they are quite rare down here.
The exact metod will be in the manual that was in a previous link, If it does not make sense to you ask and we will guide you

Next if you have not already put the heads back on, do not do it till we are sure the valves have the correct clearences as you have to take the valves out to alter the gap.
I will start an arguement with this comment but I never reuse an old head gasket no matter how good it looks.
Too much work to save $ 30 if they give way

Click to expand...

I will work on getting that adjusted.The float needle is new, but I do have the old one... I think unless I threw it away. For the Carb, I bought a gasket and "parts" replacement for the carb. Out of the package I replaced the needle in the picture and the two screws with springs on them(idle and gas mixture??).

I have already put the heads back on, but all the gaskets are new. I just bought them, so they have only been used while I was trying to crank it haha.

All parts new and old can be found in these pictures.
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/veu1rf74n8vrjze/AAD7hPGiCq0ikyP4iexoDoQCa

well that explains why the needle looked so good.
Read the manual about float height and be very gentle.
A very small amount of adjustment makes a very big difference and running with a low float can cause lean running , overheating and ultimately the big bang.
Have you had a chance to measure the valves yet ?

Hey Guys,

I have been super busy with work and not had much time. I am going outside now to see if I can check the gap quickly, if not I will have to get to it on Friday or tomorrow.

"running with a low float" = The float hanging down to low? or The float not hanging low enough?

Alright, so I believe this is what y'all are looking for? If not let me know.


I think it is not right at all, I tried to use the gauge to slide it in between the two "rods" and it wouldnt fit at all. So either it is not right, or I was doing something wrong. It is like this on both sides. I am headed to youtube to make sure I was doing my part right, but I thought I would get this up if people had immediate feedback.

Album is here
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/8suwwe2ltxw45t4/AADHVUAGnASz5-MvQLCeKv_Pa

Fixed float... possibly ?


Album here: - Not sure how to verify it is correct, it says it should be parallel with the gasket?.. I think it is, the best I could get it anyway...
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/pum3uw042uzu75m/AACFBn90StHwn2VLiSrQ3kHYa

Looked at your pictures, and you are correct the float is suppose to be parallel with the gasket. So with the upper part of the carb upside down the side opposite the pin should be level with the end with the pin, or relatively close.

You are check the valves correctly, just make sure that what ever side you are working on that both valves are closed, and then go a little past TDC on the piston. You will need to remove the springs from the valves and remove them, and file or grind off the bottom of the valve stem and keep retrying until you get the correct gap when checked with the proper gauge.

Okay, I think I will have to go buy a "file" from home depot today. I dont think I have anything that will grind it down.

NO , NO, No.
Never touch to them with a file.
Use some wet & dry on a sheet of glass or an oil stone.
The tips are hardened and most files won't touch them unless you rally hoe into it .
Then you take off way too much so have to go back & remove metal from the valve face or seats.
It will be slow so turn on the radio or put on your favourite music and sort of relax.

Note what the manual says, and grind them down to the maximum clearence if measuring with the valves held in by hand.
When you think it is right, refit the springs, squirt some oil on the toching faces and spin the motor for a few minutes ( in short bursts)
Then remeasure the gap and adkust some more if necessary.
Done right it is a once in 5 to 10 year job so worth taking the time to do properly.

Darn already bought the file, but needed one anyway. So, I will do as requested and get the right stuff and then work on it tomorrow lol.

Wait, Use some wet & dry on a sheet of glass or an oil stone.

wet and dry (sandpaper)?

Not having any luck on finding the right tools to grind them down. Can somebody give me a link or explain more?

You got it right.
Wet & dry is a type of abrasive paper but it is not sandpaper.
Usually it is cabourundium a type of synthetic diamond and sold in grades with numbers.
You are looking at someting around 320 to 600,
Bigger the number finer the grit. Lube it with some light oil , WD 40 or even a slowly dripping hose.
Oil stone is the thing you sharpen chisels and axes with should only be a couple of dollars.
Generally about 6" to 10" long and 3" to 5" wide with coarse on one side and fine on the other.
Occasionally you will see an instruction to "stone " somthing and this is what they mean.
In either case hold the vlave at right angles to the abrasive and move it in a figure 8 pattern which helps to keep things even.

I'm just not finding anything on this when I google to try and buy it.

I search oil stone but get nothing. I found a thing at Home Depot "Chisel and plane iron sharpening kit"?

Does it have another name?

They are called wet stones, for sharpening knives and the like. You put either oil or water on the surface when using to help prevent clogging of the pores in the stone. Get a course as well as a fine, because otherwise it will be time consuming. The exhaust valve stem is so hard that it gives grinding stones a run for their money sometimes. You can also use wet/dry sandpaper, but I would also find some course grid in that also if possible to cut down on time to do the valves.

ILENGINE said:

They are called wet stones, for sharpening knives and the like. You put either oil or water on the surface when using to help prevent clogging of the pores in the stone. Get a course as well as a fine, because otherwise it will be time consuming. The exhaust valve stem is so hard that it gives grinding stones a run for their money sometimes. You can also use wet/dry sandpaper, but I would also find some course grid in that also if possible to cut down on time to do the valves.

Click to expand...

Perfect, I grabbed this the other day from home depot... but I will go get the right stuff tonight and get grinding haha.. I added a few other pictures of stuff I had lying around the garage.. this stone in the pictures is for sharpening knives, not sure if that is a "wet/oil stone" or not though.
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/akp5njap1b5z88r/AABR3FM4K2E50pbywf9x40JGa

Looks like an Arkansas wet stone in your 3rd and 4th pictures.

AH yes, the two peoples seperated by a common language strikes again.
Down here they are called oil stones.
Sand paper is just that paper with sand stuck on it and is used only on wood
Glass paper is similar except it as blast furnace slag as the abrasive
Wet & Dry is usually carborundam ( a USA invention ) and is used on metals and painting cars
And emery paper is not paper at all but cloth backed.

I am not familiar with that 3M paper.
It looks a bit coarse , you won't be able to use any thing other than the 220 grit and even that might create a problem holding the valve strait whie you rub it on the paper.
The glass sheet is to keep it flat and you saturate the paper so it sticks on the sheet of glass.
Old car windows are good for this, scraps of laminated shop front glass is better is you have any glaziers handy.
To do the exhause vlave you will need realy hard & sharp abrasive.
Which when yu asked is why I mentioned carborundam, which is a brand name for Silicon Carbide abrasive paper .
It is grey in colour.

And yes that looks like the right stone.
To give you a rough idea about 100 figure of 8 strokes on the stone will take about 1/10 th of a thou off the end.
SO for 0.006" off the end you are looking at around 6,000 strokes + or - which will take quite a while , hence the suggestion of putting on your favourite music finding some where comfortable and try to reylax while doing it.
The inlets will gring down a lot faster than the exhausts so start with one of them

haha sounds good, well... I will go pick up some of the Silicon Carbide abrasive paper... Then get the valves removed and start my Friday off right haha.

The other alternative is to take them to a real mower repair shop or a head shop and ask them to knock 0.005" of each one, just so long as they were all touching when the valve was closed.
That will save you a lot of time but also cost money and you wil still need to finish the job yourself.

ALRIGHT!! .... After alot of work I have them all done and to spec with the repair manual. Should I put it all back together now, or do I need to check other stuff?

P.S, I wish I would have seen your message and just taken them to the shop hahaha. For whatever reason, I also cant get notifications from this thread to my email!

Daquiri_briggs said:

ALRIGHT!! .... After alot of work I have them all done and to spec with the repair manual. Should I put it all back together now, or do I need to check other stuff?

Click to expand...

Reassemble the valves into the cylinders.
Rotate the engine for a few miutes so they can settle in .
Don't run the starter for more than a minute continually
Then check the clearenes again, readjust if necessary.
Once you are happy they are good put it all back together.

Will do..

Similiar behavior, it started up once and ran how I would expect it to. Then the times after it wont start anymore. I still think it has something to do with that screw at the bottom of the carburetor. I think it is getting to much gas.

So, whats next.

I checked again and the muffler was full of gas... I emptied it out, would that mean the float is to low or something?

Yes.

The float is not touching the needle soon enough or the needle is not cutting off the fuel supply
If you have not touche the carb since you tried to start it last, pull the fuel ine off at the fuel pump and try blowing gently into it.
The float bowl should be full and you should not be able to blow throug the line because the needle should be closed.
Did you ben that tang exactly the way the book described it ?

bertsmobile1 said:

Yes.

The float is not touching the needle soon enough or the needle is not cutting off the fuel supply
If you have not touche the carb since you tried to start it last, pull the fuel ine off at the fuel pump and try blowing gently into it.
The float bowl should be full and you should not be able to blow throug the line because the needle should be closed.
Did you ben that tang exactly the way the book described it ?

Click to expand...

I will get to that after church. I have not tried starting it since my last post. I did however remove the fuel line last night before I took the muffler off and I didnt hook that back up. You want me to blow into the fuel pump, the fuel line, or the top of the carb?

The book just said bend it to be parallel with the gasket. I tried that, but I cant see the float or anything like that when it is installed. To see it I would have to lift it and then it would not be parallel with the gasket anyway. So I am not sure how to do it other than just looking at it and eyeing it the best I can. I uploaded some pictures of what it looked like after I did this.

Sorry
Brain fart time your carb has an inbuilt fuel pump so you can not test the float valve by blowing.
So you will have to check it by the method shown in the manual that Rivets directed you to.
You put the carb in a vice, upside down.
protect the side with some rag.
get it sitting as close to level as possible.
put a 6" ruler flat across the float and measure the height of the ruler above the bolt holes as shown in the manual.
If not exactly the same then bend the tang and remeasure.
repeat till you have it exactly parallel.
near enough is not good enough with this one.
presicion is vital.

I think I got it....

STUPID FREAKING STARTER "GEAR" CRAPPED OUT ON ME. So I have to get another one ordered and see if it is working like I would expect. I feel like it was idling to high, but I undid the screw a little for that piece. It started twice and ran, I ran out of gas so I filled it back up, but noticed the starter gear teeth got shredded between the two starts.... WTH!

Anyway, I will follow up after I get that part looks like on the 2nd.

For some reason, the engine would spin and then I would get a loud squeak followed by it spinning backwards.... That seems to be how the starter gear teeth got messed up.

Make sure you get the right gear, there are several of them and the wrong one can jamb the starter or wreck the teeth on the flywheel so order it from a real B &S dealer using your engine numbers.
Sounds like your are getting closer

Alrightt guys... sorry for the delay stuff at work went wrong and I had to put in like 80 hours this week!!

Anyway, I finally got the starter gear replaced and have now started it up a few times. My remaining issue is around the throttle. When I start it, the engine doesnt idle... it just builds up until I turn the engine off, or I mess with the idle lever on the side of the carb. If I push the lever on the carb, it will idle just fine and run as long as I hold that in place. As soon as I move my hand it starts to rev up again.

The throttle itself seems okay, although it runs pretty high in the low position and when I take it to high throttle....!!! that is scary!!!

So, whats next? I am about to go get some photos of everything and a video... the video will just be for sound so you understand what I am saying on the revving up.

Maybe I was just a little scared lol.... I think it is actually just running REALLY well, so I thought it was not acting right.

Take a look at the video, but I think it is fine.
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/yefg9ml1a3z9az4/AABWGz8jF9NE47xruCcbw7oTa



So, only thing is, if you notice on the longer video I did have to use starter fluid to start it. Maybe I bent the float to much now? Very likely, I would think... Let me know your thoughts.

engine sound good is the choke closing all the way when trying to cold start

ILENGINE said:

engine sound good is the choke closing all the way when trying to cold start

Click to expand...

I actually never understood how a cold start works. SORRY!!

So.... I need to try and shut the choke to start it. The choke will shut all the way and open all the way as well. I did Close it just a bit when I was scared it was revving to high!

So, I shut the coke and it started right up. I still feel like it is running so fast... Anyway... I am going to get ready to put everything else back together

the only way to know for sure how fast it is turning would be a tachometer.

great to see all the work you and the peolpe on here can get it working again

So, prior to this I seen quite a bit of difference between high and low throttle. I have the "idle lever" exactly where I would like it to idle at on low, but it doesnt quite get there. How would I fix this, as I stated earlier I feel like it is idling on low way to fast. When I switch from Low throttle to full throttle there is hardly a difference at all.

As far as everything else goes, I just let the mower run for about 20 minutes, turned it off for a little and repeated. It started right up and ran flawlessly, except for my above statements.

You guys are awesome! Thank you so much!! I am glad that Bert was able to take that walk a few pages back and calm his nerves enough to help me thru my novice ways :tongue::tongue:!! I cant tell y'all enough how much I appreciate it.

I just need to address my question above, put the deck back on and the hood, then I will be good to go!!!! I might just go mow my neighbors yard today hahaha Just kidding!!

Did you mess with where the governor arm connects to the rod that go inside the engine. Follow the throttle rods down to were the connect to an arm.

when turning the shaft on the carb, what which direction the governor rods turns when it goes inside the engine. Now when holding the throttle at full throttle loosen the bolt that clamps the arm to the rod and then turn the rod all the way it will turn in the same direction it was turning when moving the throttle to full open throttle. and then retighten the clamp.

See if that helps.

ILENGINE said:

Did you mess with where the governor arm connects to the rod that go inside the engine. Follow the throttle rods down to were the connect to an arm.

when turning the shaft on the carb, what which direction the governor rods turns when it goes inside the engine. Now when holding the throttle at full throttle loosen the bolt that clamps the arm to the rod and then turn the rod all the way it will turn in the same direction it was turning when moving the throttle to full open throttle. and then retighten the clamp.

See if that helps.

Click to expand...

What are the throttle rods and clamps? I have not messed with the throttle other than taking the cable off and taking the carb off. Of course I did have the inside parts removed, that piece of the governor.

Is this the clamp that you are talking about.. the one that moves the lever for idling?
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/wpj8ag5efi2jfue/AABoOUVyAAT2h-otPGzbJ5dza

When you were inside removing the governor gear that piece makes contact with an L shaped rod. That rod goes through the block and connects to an arm. that arm is connected with a bolt that squeezes the governor arm onto the shaft. You may need to follow the direction as posted above to reset the static governor setting.

The governor spring connect between where the throttle cable and the governor arm. That clamping bolt is down in that area of the engine.

And remember,
THE GOVENOR MAKES IT GO SLOWER
The THROTTLE MAKES IT GO FASTER

They work directly against each other regulated by the spring.

Didn't have time to check this tonight, but I did start it up and try to ride it around the yard. Going up a little to no hill on my driveway it stuttered and would barely go. Flat land it was fine. So... Not sure what that means but I wanted to put it out there until I had time to check the stuff

I have no idea what I am about to do, but I am going to go try something...

Few videos of it just running and me trying stuff on the throttle
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jij5zf1ch05v4sa/Video Mar 05, 7 37 49 PM.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbvgz5wvxfpdi19/Video Mar 10, 5 39 55 PM.mov?dl=0

The thing barely turns
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbvgz5wvxfpdi19/Video Mar 10, 5 39 55 PM.mov?dl=0

Video of it when I was riding it and it would almost die...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/31k8uuzuist2a8u/Video Mar 08, 7 08 31 PM.mov?dl=0

Photos of me looking at the throttle and govenor... I dont get the instructions.. the bolt I loosened did nothing and so forth so on..
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/lf0gx4gwy8waq6m/AABohsPoTZAQZHasPLiEhR90a

You found the clamp bolt for the governor rod. With that loose move the throttle on the carb back and forth while watching what direction the rod turns where you had the screw driver. Now while holding the throttle at the wide open throttle position turn that rod where the screwdriver is in the same direction as it turned when you moved the throttle all the way to full throttle. then tighten the clamp bolt back down making sure it is snug, otherwise it may slip.

If done correctly will set the static governor position, after that then restart the engine and see what it does. We may need to make adjustments to the governor springs after that, but lets see if that changes anything first.

PS. that rod doesn't turn very far. Maybe 1/8 turn or so.

PHEWW! I thought I was going crazy... BRB, going to go do what you said! Thanks for the reply

Wide open is throttle at full blast right, just to double check

I think I may have done the opposite of what you told me, watch these videos in order and let me know? I tried starting it and it sounded kind of weird, so I wanted to check again before I cranked it up.
The reason I think I done it the opposite way is because, the rod went right when I messed with the lever on the carb. I then put the throttle to full throttle, turned the screw to the right and tightened it up.

Now, nothing moves but that middle piece with the big screw when I move the throttle and the lever on the carb remains super tight away from that idle screw.

1.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqv39zl8jd868v6/Video Mar 10, 6 49 33 PM.mov?dl=0

2.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/susv5b83fe6gelp/Video Mar 10, 6 53 09 PM.mov?dl=0


EDIT - It wont start now and it sounds real bad when I try to turn it over...
Another Edit - I put the throttle at full go, turned the screw to the left as far as it would go and then it ran a lot better, but still didnt quite like to much action. A slight hill and it would slow down tons

This freaking STARTER!!!!!!! This is the third gear it has ate, wth!!. Now I have to wait until I can get this thing off and put another damn gear on. The thing will turn over and then jump back the opposite way and eat the teeth!!


https://www.dropbox.com/sc/iyt41pt4s1i4fpa/AACrkhu2h87iDqJA_QfGQljSa

Anything?

The kickback could be caused by an offset flywheel key so may want to check that. they other thing is it looks like the starter gear isn't meshing well with the flywheel ring gear. Bent starter shaft, or excessive wear in the starter worm can cause the problems you are having with starter gears.

Thanks,I got the starter gear replaced and now I am working on the other stuff. I tried to test it this morning but the dang drive belt was off. So I am looking for a diagram to get that put back on. Then I will take see if it will get enough power.. I am wondering if maybe the belt was loose and thats why it wasnt fully getting power under load...

EDIT - All's well with the drive belt, I tried it once more and it ran fine unless I went into the grass or up the driveway. So, If I turn it all the way right... It will not start.

If I turn it left, it will not go under load.


Can you try and explain the way it should turn again? I put videos up of how I turned it and what it was doing.

Static governor setting. Lets start by looking at the throttle on the carb. With the throttle lever all the way against the screw, Now while looking at the rod where that clamp bolt is, turn the throttle lever on the carb to the full throttle position watching what direction the rod turned. Now while holding the throttle in the full throttle position loosen the clamp bolt turn the screw all the way until it stops in the direction that it turned when you moved the throttle from idle to full throttle, and then tighten the bolt back down.

ILENGINE said:

Static governor setting. Lets start by looking at the throttle on the carb. With the throttle lever all the way against the screw, Now while looking at the rod where that clamp bolt is, turn the throttle lever on the carb to the full throttle position watching what direction the rod turned. Now while holding the throttle in the full throttle position loosen the clamp bolt turn the screw all the way until it stops in the direction that it turned when you moved the throttle from idle to full throttle, and then tighten the bolt back down.

Click to expand...

Lets make sure I follow this.

Got It - Static governor setting. Lets start by looking at the throttle on the carb. With the throttle lever all the way against the screw, Now while looking at the rod where that clamp bolt is,

Not sure- turn the throttle lever on the carb to the full throttle position watching what direction the rod turned.

Got it Excluding the question above - Now while holding the throttle in the full throttle position loosen the clamp bolt turn the screw all the way until it stops in the direction that it turned when you moved the throttle from idle to full throttle, and then tighten the bolt back down.

So my only other question is, where should my throttle on the engine be, "turtle" or "rabbit" :smile:

Daquiri_briggs said:

Lets make sure I follow this.

Got It - Static governor setting. Lets start by looking at the throttle on the carb. With the throttle lever all the way against the screw, Now while looking at the rod where that clamp bolt is,

Not sure- turn the throttle lever on the carb to the full throttle position watching what direction the rod turned.

Is this pulling the throttle lever all the way back from the screw in your first sentences? ​

Got it Excluding the question above - Now while holding the throttle in the full throttle position loosen the clamp bolt turn the screw all the way until it stops in the direction that it turned when you moved the throttle from idle to full throttle, and then tighten the bolt back down.

So my only other question is, where should my throttle on the engine be, "turtle" or "rabbit" :smile:

Click to expand...

yes to the first question the second doesn't matter because you manually holding the throttle at full open, but can put at rabbit if you want

ILENGINE said:

yes to the first question the second doesn't matter because you manually holding the throttle at full open, but can put at rabbit if you want

Click to expand...

K, it didnt work.

1. Check which way the screw was turning, which was to the right.
2. Un bolted that thing.
3. Pushed the lever all the way back, away from the idle screw.
4. Turned the screw on the govenor to the right.
5. With that still turned to the right and the throttle pushed away from the screw, tightend the bolt.

Started it, and then .... videos uploading now of how it ran...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkrsdqcer9pixn4/Video Mar 12, 6 27 23 PM.mov?dl=0

Smoke was coming out of here and a sound of gushing air was coming out earlier when I tried to start it... Like a pop of air, as if you pressed the air compressor once and a deep pop of air sounded off
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a89t9xh7wgodq8c/Video Mar 12, 6 28 07 PM.mov?dl=0

Changing throttle and nothing... Then when I show the throttle towards the end of the video, I was just moving it up and down...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccuw7ddz7xvfwa8/Video Mar 12, 6 30 50 PM.mov?dl=0

I got another video coming of when I start it and move the throttle... It doesnt change speed...

It sounds like it is running on one cylinder. I would say the one smoking is fine, but the other one isn't firing for some reason. Also the hissing, popping sounds like an air leak someplace. Maybe head gasket or another gasket leaking.

You showed that the throttle was moving at the carb, but didn't change the engine speed. Even with running on one cylinder it should still accelerate. I think we may be dealing with two separate problems. They may be difficult to diagnose. Lets start by making sure you have spark on both spark plugs. Also if possible a compression test of both cylinders. I know somebody will say that you can't test compression on a Briggs, or the reading isn't accurate. I need a comparison between the two cylinders.

Okay, where would I start on that? Is I t a special tool to measure? I don't quite understand your question on the throttle. I will have to take a look in just a little bit.

I am going to check the spark plugs and everything tomorrow morning and make sure those are alright and then check the gasket. I will follow up then with my findings.

Alright, so this morning I noticed gas leaking from somewhere on the engine. I unplugged the line.

This afternoon, I switched the plugs. The one on the left(looking at front of mower) was the one we were concerned was not firing. The one on the right was the one that was making noises and possibly needed a new gasket.

So....
After changing the plugs. I tried to start the engine. When I turned it over, gas spewed out of the right head, like nobody's business. I'm still in my work clothes so I didn't try this again. I will get the gasket replaced... Which is weird because it's brand new!

Why would the change in spark plugs cause the gas to Coke oht like that? When it didn't before. Maybe the gasket just finally reached the tipping point?

I can send you a rubber band, paper clip, and a match. One might fix it:wink:

Compressing a cylinder full of gas is difficult to do.

I broke a bolt trying tighten the head. I'm going to try and get a different tap to fix the screw that broke off. Idk, I think after this weekend I am going to give up. I don't know what else to do.

I Will buy another spark plug and see if that helps the one side as well.

Finally got the gasket ordered in case that is a problem. I also got lucky and was able to remove the old screw, bought a new one.. just waiting on the new gasket to reinstall.

Alright, so after a little more help I have got this puppy up and running. I just need to put the deck back on and get to mowin!!!!!

1. Adjusted Governor.
2. Found gas in the oil.
3. Put a fuel shutoff valve on.
4. Replaced Float again.
5. Put more new spark plugs on.


And Wala! Good to go.

Thanks again guys!!!

Mowing the lawn will be the true test.