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Blown engine... are these models interchangeable?

May 22, 2018#1

T

Team_Dub

Craftsman LT1500 Model 247.288811 with a VERY blown 31C707-3346-G2/G6.

Had oil. No idea what happened, except that it was sudden and catastrophic. First cut after Craigslist (robbery) purchase. Can't push mow due to physical issues.

My question is will a 31R907-0007-G1 be a suitable replacement? Same crank size and keyway? Been looking but can't find the answer.

Thanks in advance.

May 22, 2018#2

Boobala

To me it looks like a straight-up engine CHANGE .. everything points to being a simple R&R procedure, possibly a difference in engine wires but that's an easy fix, if the R model is a good motor I'd go for it ...... keep us updated and ask for help if needed ....... :thumbsup:

https://www.partswarehouse.com/31R907-0007-G1-Briggs-and-Stratton-Engine-s/235388.htm#

May 22, 2018#3

T

Team_Dub

Boobala said:
To me it looks like a straight-up engine CHANGE .. everything points to being a simple R&R procedure, possibly a difference in engine wires but that's an easy fix, if the R model is a good motor I'd go for it ...... keep us updated and ask for help if needed ....... :thumbsup:

Thanks a ton,Boobala - that's what I was thinking and hoping to hear!

:thumbsup:

May 22, 2018#4

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

Team Dub if your crank and the replacement engine has the same exact measurments then you are good to go.....

I haven't looked at your specs, but the type codes are meant for color and stickers for different mowers by different brand names.... Mostly........

Crank size is your major concern Mon Ami ~!~!

Let us know ~!~!.............

May 23, 2018#5

T

Team_Dub

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:
Team Dub if your crank and the replacement engine has the same exact measurments then you are good to go.....

I haven't looked at your specs, but the type codes are meant for color and stickers for different mowers by different brand names.... Mostly........

Crank size is your major concern Mon Ami ~!~!

Boudreaux - I was hoping an expert here would know that info and pass it along.

Still looking...

Thanks!

May 23, 2018#6

T

Team_Dub

This is from the proposed replacement:

1-Inch by 3-5/32-Inch Length Crankshaft Tapped 7-16-20-Inch

May 23, 2018#7

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

That's the most common length.... Now if your old one has that length which I would bet good money it does, then you are golden.......

Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!

May 23, 2018#8

B

bertsmobile1

Check the plugs on the ends of the alternator.
Briggs use different colours and configurations for different capacity alternators.
If they care different ( one of the code things ) you can swap them over, just adds a little more time.

May 25, 2018#9

T

Team_Dub

Thanks for all the info!

It's ordered and will be here Tuesday.

As long as the crank is the same, all I *should* have to do is swap over the old front exhaust and possibly a little electrical tweaking.

I'm sure issues will arise and I will keep you posted!

:smile:

May 25, 2018#10

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

Team I thought you had a spare engine off of a used mower at your finger tips.......... I didn't know you ordered one.....

I wish I would have known..... I could have got you a better price and the same engine for your mower.........

Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!

May 26, 2018#11

T

Team_Dub

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:
Team I thought you had a spare engine off of a used mower at your finger tips.......... I didn't know you ordered one.....

I wish I would have known..... I could have got you a better price and the same engine for your mower.........

Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!

Oof.

Wish I would have known that. These things aren't exactly cheap on Amazon...

Thanks anyway!

May 27, 2018#12

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

Team ........... How much did you pay for that engine ?????

May 27, 2018#13

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

I could have got you one shipped to you for about 460.00 ..........

May 27, 2018#14

T

Team_Dub

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:
I could have got you one shipped to you for about 460.00 ..........

Well, around $100 more, but we have 6 months to pay it off with no interest.

c'est la vie.

May 28, 2018#15

T

Team_Dub

Getting the patient ready...

By the way, if you're anywhere near NW Ohio, avoid the following shysters like the plague:

Black Swamp 4 Cycle and Custom
5625 Angola Rd. Toledo, Ohio
419-377-8880

They swore this mower was "fixed and ready to mow."

1 loose blade. 1 bent blade. Both were dull, nicked-up junk. All belts were bad.

And, of course, it blew up on the first real mow, despite having oil. Notice the orange gasket material from their "fix."

They will do NOTHING AT ALL to help remedy the situation. Pricks.

Caveat emptor and all that, but I guess I'm still foolish enough to expect a shred of honesty or decency from people.

May 28, 2018#16

T

Team_Dub

May 28, 2018#17

Boobala

Team_Dub said:
View attachment 38049

WELL NOW !! That just goe's to show....... when you set out to do something, YOU DON'T kid around !! .. :laughing:..:laughing:

( cryin ain't gonna help now, I thought I could get a smile outa ya though !! )

May 28, 2018#18

T

Team_Dub

Boobala said:
WELL NOW !! That just goe's to show....... when you set out to do something, YOU DON'T kid around !! .. :laughing:..:laughing:

( cryin ain't gonna help now, I thought I could get a smile outa ya though !! )

Yep, if I'm in, I'm ALL in. :laughing:

Hope the brand new belts survive their light oil bath and this sucker bolts right up.

I could really use a win; they've been sparse lately.

May 29, 2018#19

T

Team_Dub

Okay... she's here!

I've swapped over my ugly old front muffler, but looking at the wiring is giving me an ulcer.

Some pics:

Old motor with harness:

What the new motor has for wiring:

Wiring I scavenged from the old motor:

Old motor: 31C707
New motor: 31R907

Any guidance would be VERY MUCH appreciated. I can probably get better pictures if needed.

Thanks!

May 29, 2018#20

T

Team_Dub

More pics...

This is the wiring from the old motor - red and orange wires going to a connector, gray(white?) and black wires going to their own connectors, with what looks like a ground wire coming from the gray wire connector.

I'm pretty clueless as to how to proceed, and I cannot afford to fry this thing.

May 29, 2018#21

cpurvis

You need the wiring diagram for the engine and wiring diagram for the mower.

Then start matching things up.

May 29, 2018#22

T

Team_Dub

cpurvis said:
You need the wiring diagram for the engine and wiring diagram for the mower.

Then start matching things up.

Well, if I could find those, that's what I'd be attempting to do.

I was hoping someone with more familiarity with these would have a straightforward answer.

May 29, 2018#23

Boobala

Team_Dub said:
Well, if I could find those, that's what I'd be attempting to do.

I was hoping someone with more familiarity with these would have a straightforward answer.

HEY T-D .. I'm workin on it 2 ......... new engine wire colors screwin me up, so far ( I'm using NEW MODEL ENGINE ( 31R907-0007-G1 ) is that an AFFIRMATIVE of what U have bought ..?? looks like it's a 5-9 Amp. TRI-CIRCUIT alternator & regulator... TRYing to find the correct diagrams, for both engines, AND the mower....... just hang in there, these things take time.... Boo

May 29, 2018#24

B

bertsmobile1

Two options.
1 ) take the blower housings off and swap the electrics
2) take the blower housings off and check where everything hooks up.

The latter engine has a real rectifier/ regulator
the earlier one has a single diode in the red wire on the engine side of the plug

Under the blower housing there are 2 wire. one goes to the magneto the other to the carb solenoid.
Pull the magneto wire off , hook the wires up and check that the magneto wire never has voltage, it is a ground wire so should be either ground ( engine off ) or open ( engine on ).

May 29, 2018#25

T

Team_Dub

Boobala said:
HEY T-D .. I'm workin on it 2 ......... new engine wire colors screwin me up, so far ( I'm using NEW MODEL ENGINE ( 31R907-0007-G1 ) is that an AFFIRMATIVE of what U have bought ..?? looks like it's a 5-9 Amp. TRI-CIRCUIT alternator & regulator... TRYing to find the correct diagrams, for both engines, AND the mower....... just hang in there, these things take time.... Boo

Yessir, 31R907-0007-G1 it is.

I'm done messing with it for the night; just had to push-mow our sled hill of a front yard. Gonna have a couple beers and try to not die.

Thanks, Boo.

:drink:

May 29, 2018#26

T

Team_Dub

bertsmobile1 said:
Two options.
1 ) take the blower housings off and swap the electrics
2) take the blower housings off and check where everything hooks up.

The latter engine has a real rectifier/ regulator
the earlier one has a single diode in the red wire on the engine side of the plug

Under the blower housing there are 2 wire. one goes to the magneto the other to the carb solenoid.
Pull the magneto wire off , hook the wires up and check that the magneto wire never has voltage, it is a ground wire so should be either ground ( engine off ) or open ( engine on ).

Thank you for the info.!

I may have to go that route tomorrow.

May 29, 2018#27

T

Team_Dub

Been trying to decipher this, but the heat stroke is making me really, really dense.

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/html/engine-specs/briggs/briggswiringexplanation.pdf

May 29, 2018#28

B

bertsmobile1

Team_Dub said:
Been trying to decipher this, but the heat stroke is making me really, really dense.

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/html/engine-specs/briggs/briggswiringexplanation.pdf

That is quite an old article.
On your original wiring you had 2 wires off the alternator.
A red wire with a diode in it to make it DC ( thick bit near the plug ) and an AC black wire which went to the lights.
The new engine has a DC only output cause it has the real rectifier on it in place of the single diode.
So the red from the rectifier goes to the red wire on the old plug hiding behind the dip stick tube.
For the time being you can forget the old black ( AC ) wire as it only goes to the headlamps and to get them to work might require a bit more wiring.
Then you only need to hook up the magneto kill wire and the fuel solenoid wire .
The grey wire on the new 2 pin plug should be the solenoid wire and the black wire should be magneto kill wire, remove them all together as you will be using the old wires.
Run the old black magneto wire up to the magneto and the old solenoid wire to the solenoid, they should go behind the starter not in front of it.
Now cut the 2 wire plug attached to the old 4 pin plug off near the 2 pin plug so you have some wire to work with .
Cut the white plug off the red wire coming out of the rectifier get a single connector plug and join the 2 red wires together using a plug of some sort .
Resist the temptation to solder them together because if the rectifier fails you will have to cut the wires again & eventually they get too short to work with.
From here you are good to mow.

This will only leave you with the lights ( if you want them ) and for them you have to do some rewiring as they are always in circuit ( you turn them on by grounding them ) and can either drain the battery or worse pump power to the magneto when the mower is turned off.
To work out how to wire them in I need to have a look at the connections on your ignition switch.

May 29, 2018#29

Boobala

T-D Tried in vain to locate your mower's wiring diagram, this is now become a head scratcher, perhaps the easiest, fastest way is to do this is per Bertsmobile1's suggestion, and swap the stators out, and the solenoid and kill wires (old to new engine, and remove the regulator from the new engine, I think everything should fall into place then, I will continue to look if you want, but I'm done for the night on this issue, ... Boo

May 30, 2018#30

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

Hey Boo I need a favor ..................

While I am on vacation, you think you could Be Bop back and forth a couple time a day to check on my house for me ?????

I'll leave the spare key in the normal place and Missy cooked a shrimp and crab stew tonight and we got the leftovers in the icebox.... The one in the spare bedroom, not the main one in the kitchen....

BTW I think Missy only took one glass of wine out the bottle of homemade Muscadine wine.... I put the cork back in real tight so it will be good at least 3 to 4 days..........

Eat all you want and we left you a lot of potato salad also... Eat all that too.... It will go bad if you don't......

Merci Mon Ami..........

We bringing back a few ice chests of shrimp if the tide is right..........

Plus Tard ..............

May 30, 2018#31

Boobala

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:
Hey Boo I need a favor ..................

While I am on vacation, you think you could Be Bop back and forth a couple time a day to check on my house for me ?????

I'll leave the spare key in the normal place and Missy cooked a shrimp and crab stew tonight and we got the leftovers in the icebox.... The one in the spare bedroom, not the main one in the kitchen....

BTW I think Missy only took one glass of wine out the bottle of homemade Muscadine wine.... I put the cork back in real tight so it will be good at least 3 to 4 days..........

Eat all you want and we left you a lot of potato salad also... Eat all that too.... It will go bad if you don't......

Merci Mon Ami..........

We bringing back a few ice chests of shrimp if the tide is right..........

Plus Tard ..............

NO PROBLEM Boud, I'll head right over to keep things in order, appreciate the chow, I'm so hungry ... my stomach thinks my throat's been slit ! My deepest appreciation to Missy for the wine, hope ya'll got a litter-box for my cat's !!

May 30, 2018#32

T

Team_Dub

Boo and Berts -

Can't tell you how much I appreciate your time and efforts. Thank you.

Gonna reread everything, see if it makes sense to my pea brain, and try to make some progress today.

:drink:

May 30, 2018#33

T

Team_Dub

Okay, so if I'm reading correctly, there's no way to get this wired up without swapping the old stator for the new?

May 30, 2018#34

Boobala

Team_Dub said:
Okay, so if I'm reading correctly, there's no way to get this wired up without swapping the old stator for the new?

T-D I'm sure it can be done, I was thrown off by the different set-up with the voltage regulator and different wiring on your new engine, but to avoid another headache, I agreed with (bertsmobile1), .. it would probably be the easiest route to use your old stator and wires on the new engine, that way all your harness connections should plug right back together, without cutting and splicing wires, IF you do use YOUR OLD stuff, be sure you save all the new stuff.... as you can see in the alternator manual you have, things can get a bit tricky, we sure DON'T want to fry a stator... BE SURE YOU TAKE PIC'S of everything you do, or tag each wire as to location .

May 30, 2018#35

T

Team_Dub

Boobala said:
T-D I'm sure it can be done, I was thrown off by the different set-up with the voltage regulator and different wiring on your new engine, but to avoid another headache, I agreed with (bertsmobile1), .. it would probably be the easiest route to use your old stator and wires on the new engine, that way all your harness connections should plug right back together, without cutting and splicing wires, IF you do use YOUR OLD stuff, be sure you save all the new stuff.... as you can see in the alternator manual you have, things can get a bit tricky, we sure DON'T want to fry a stator... BE SURE YOU TAKE PIC'S of everything you do, or tag each wire as to location .

I was really hoping to avoid using much of anything from the old engine, especially if it involves removing both flywheels. Gonna roll it in my garage along with the grenaded old engine and see how confident I feel about all this.

(Hint - not very confident. :laughing

May 30, 2018#36

Boobala

Team_Dub said:
I was really hoping to avoid using much of anything from the old engine, especially if it involves removing both flywheels. Gonna roll it in my garage along with the grenaded old engine and see how confident I feel about all this.

(Hint - not very confident. :laughing

HERE'S a video to MAYBE ... I said MAYBE, help ya (a case of beer would probably have been better... "Courage in a Can " ) ..:laughing: prep for the battle,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuKZSXdwMqc

May 30, 2018#37

T

Team_Dub

Boobala said:
HERE'S a video to MAYBE ... I said MAYBE, help ya (a case of beer would probably have been better... "Courage in a Can " ) ..:laughing: prep for the battle,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuKZSXdwMqc

I cannot get this old flywheel off to save my life... I may just try to find a new replacement alternator that matches the old one.

https://www.amazon.com/Briggs-Strat...38&sr=8-2&keywords=696459+briggs+and+stratton

Yay. MORE money.

May 30, 2018#38

T

Team_Dub

There has GOT to be a way to wire this thing without swapping out stators. I'm about at the end of my rope.

May 30, 2018#39

T

Team_Dub

Team_Dub said:
There has GOT to be a way to wire this thing without swapping out stators. I'm about at the end of my rope.

Is this applicable?

http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...help-wiring-up-new-Briggs-amp-Stratton-17-5hp

May 30, 2018#40

Boobala

Team_Dub said:
Is this applicable?

http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...help-wiring-up-new-Briggs-amp-Stratton-17-5hp

I'm not sure because there's no info on the old engine he replaced. is there a local mower shop..?? ..Maybe with a large deposit you could RENT their puller.. or at worst .. bring both engines there, and have them remove both flywheels,

May 30, 2018#41

T

Team_Dub

Here is what I FINALLY found for my rider harness:

Helpful?

May 30, 2018#42

Boobala

Team_Dub said:
Here is what I FINALLY found for my rider harness:

View attachment 38118

Helpful?

Going back n forth looking at these pics and diagrams driving me crazy, looking at the harness on the cardboard really drove me crazy with that shadow I thought was a wire !! ( LOL ) No matter what,.. there will be splicing to do, did you get any other wire harness "adapters with the new engine, ?? .. ALSO, if you could clean-up the old harness and separate the wires so I can see the colors of the wires better, that would be a big help, then plug the old harness plugs together so I can see which color goes to which color something like in the enclosed pics below.. Sorry, this is long and drawn out, it would be easier if I was there .......

May 30, 2018#43

T

Team_Dub

Boobala said:
Going back n forth looking at these pics and diagrams driving me crazy, looking at the harness on the cardboard really drove me crazy with that shadow I thought was a wire !! ( LOL ) No matter what,.. there will be splicing to do, did you get any other wire harness "adapters with the new engine, ?? .. ALSO, if you could clean-up the old harness and separate the wires so I can see the colors of the wires better, that would be a big help, then plug the old harness plugs together so I can see which color goes to which color something like in the enclosed pics below.. Sorry, this is long and drawn out, it would be easier if I was there .......

View attachment 38121..View attachment 38122..View attachment 38123..View attachment 38124

I got absolutely zilch in the box other than the engine itself. Not even a shred or paperwork.

I will get more, better pics ASAP and PLEASE don't apologize - I really appreciate the help!

May 30, 2018#44

T

Team_Dub

Okay, let's see if this helps...

Here's the infamous "cardboard wire" which is the plug on the right of image above.

The longer white with black (ground?) went to the carb... the ground was just dangling free.

The connector with orange/red plugged into the wires from stator - red to red, orange to black.

I'd like to have headlights, but, at this point, I could gladly live without them.

May 30, 2018#45

Boobala

OK a little at a time..... in the pic of old harness ...

..... those appear to be the carb solenoid wires and they hook-up like in this pic...

.... then..the next wire down, APPEARS to be a slip on spade type connector w/black wire, (1) it should probably go to the coil ( the kill wire ) THIS BETTER NOT have voltage when everything is hooked-up with key on........ does it look like that's what it is .. ?? then the engine to mower harness connectors do you remember where the smaller connector went.. ?? I think it MIGHT have connected to the old stator wires ..?? ( remember ... I have to go back N forth with your pics on the puter ) NOW..in this pic ..

......... are these wires/conn. part of the harness laid out on the cardboard (the old engine harness .. ?? ) I'm thinkin it's the solenoid wire and the kill wire... ?? UR turn ... ( LOL )

DAMN, that first pic didn't come out big... U took that with a cellphone didn't ya ..?? ..wanted this size to show wires at top ..

..... yeah that's more betterer !!

May 30, 2018#46

T

Team_Dub

Let me get back to you in a bit with more info... for some reason I can't recall where the hell the single black wire with spade connector went. Thought I took pics of everything, but I guess not.

Would it be easier to just send this back and get something more compatible? Do they even make them like the old motor anymore?! I'm just concerned about voiding the warranty after this whole debacle.

May 30, 2018#47

Boobala

Team_Dub said:
Let me get back to you in a bit with more info... for some reason I can't recall where the hell the single black wire with spade connector went. Thought I took pics of everything, but I guess not.

Would it be easier to just send this back and get something more compatible? Do they even make them like the old motor anymore?! I'm just concerned about voiding the warranty after this whole debacle.

WELLLL I don't know... they may not take it back, if they do, they need to have a match for your stator, (NO REGULATOR) model...
if not, THEN it's cut and splice time, or you could spend about $15.00 - $20.00 for a flywheel puller .... see this ..View attachment 38134

then swap the stators ..... you should call where you bought it and explain things BEFORE you cut any wires or scratch up the newbie
also there may be a restocking fee ..?? .. ..:mur:.. :frown: ......... UR turn....

May 30, 2018#48

T

Team_Dub

Boobala said:
WELLLL I don't know... they may not take it back, if they do, they need to have a match for your stator, (NO REGULATOR) model...
if not, THEN it's cut and splice time, or you could spend about $15.00 - $20.00 for a flywheel puller .... see this ..View attachment 38134

then swap the stators ..... you should call where you bought it and explain things BEFORE you cut any wires or scratch up the newbie
also there may be a restocking fee ..?? .. ..:mur:.. :frown: ......... UR turn....

Got it from Amazon. Can return it no problem. Leaning towards doing that and saving everyone's sanity. Might just hold on to the mower, because everything else is in great shape, and try to find a drop-in direct replacement - which I thought this was. Briggs & Stratton website/Support is ZERO help.

Gonna have a beer and consider.

(I owe you guys a few for your help, btw... might have to get a mailing address. :drink

May 30, 2018#49

B

bertsmobile1

Team_Dub said:
Okay, so if I'm reading correctly, there's no way to get this wired up without swapping the old stator for the new?

Reread what I said.
I told you how to wire it up.
You will have to cut some wires to do it and fit some new plugs.
Briggs used to sell rewire kits with all of the various plugs so you could just swap the wires over but I have not been able to get one .
There are not many wires ,
The only real difference is the fact that the new engine has a lot better alternator so all you have to do is to wire the new alternator into the old engine plug.

May 30, 2018#50

B

bertsmobile1

Team_Dub said:
Okay, let's see if this helps...

View attachment 38125

Here's the infamous "cardboard wire" which is the plug on the right of image above.
View attachment 38127
The longer white with black (ground?) went to the carb... the ground was just dangling free.

The connector with orange/red plugged into the wires from stator - red to red, orange to black.
View attachment 38126

I'd like to have headlights, but, at this point, I could gladly live without them.

Yes the long gray wire goes to the carb and the ground wire on the plug goes to the tiny bolt behind the carb that holds the metal cover under the engine.
The black wire with the spade terminal will go to the magneto.Leave it off for now
That leaves the alternator wires.
Old system has 2 of them
New system has 1 of them
Red wire goes to the red wire so cut the plug with the red & black wire off the harness on the cardboard and put a single spade connector on it.
Cut the round white plug of the red wire poking out of the rectifier on the new engine and put the other 1/2of a spade connector on it.

Forget about the orange wire it is for the headlights, for the time being.
You do not need them and most don't work in any case.

You should now be ready to mow but double check by pulling the black wire off the magneto and checking it for voltage engine off, engine on & engine running ( yes it will run without the wire attached ).
If there was no voltage on the black wire and it reads open circuit to ground switch in start & on position and closed to ground switch in the off position you are right to mow.

As for the lights, with the AC lights the ignition. the stator is hard wired into the lights and the light switch makes a ground connection.
Because the stator has a diode on it this set up can not back feed and flatten the battery when the engine is turned off.
Now you have a DC only system, if you want lights they will have to be wired up as a new circuit.
Exactly how this is done depends upon which ignition switch you have and how it switches so the simplist & easiest thing to do is to ground the globes then put a toggle switch between a wire from the battery to the lights.
Some tap into the grey carb wire so they automatically turn off when the ignition is turned off.

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Blown engine... are these models interchangeable?

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