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I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wrench.

most blade fasteners tighten during operation and not counting for any rusting that occurs.. appears the torque spec is 90 to 110 ftlbs.

It does take a good impact to remove these blades. Even a good impact will have problem if there is resistance in the air supply line causing line pressure drop.

A good example of this was here. My AirCat 1150 couldn't even loosen my lug nuts on my pickup that were tighten to only 70 ft/lbs. Now of course I using a 100 ft 3/8 air line. My problem was the under size M style couplers and plugs. Even the properly size M couplers and plugs it still struggled. This is when check the supply pressure with the impact free running. The line pressure was dropping to 20 psi from the 125 psi standing pressure. I switch out all the couplers and plugs to V style (high flow) and I haven't had any problems since except for one Scag mower which has always cause problems removing the blade bolts.

The 1/2" Campbell Hausfeld impact that I had and gave was useless for removing many fasteners.

Went to a 220 volt 60 gal. compressor running at 125 psi. Had 110 volt 15 gal.Hope this helps!

Several times a year I have to cut the heads off blade bolts
Most of the round hole blades use a cupped washer to tension the blade
These will end up dead flat and there sis no way you will undo them
Once the head is cut off you can undo them with your fingers
I usually cut through the head, flat to flat then hit the cuts with a cold chisel

You guys are shopping at the wrong tool stores. Look no further than Astro Tools. Solid tools that are very easy on the wallet.


Youtube's South Main Auto (Erik O) uses the snot out of these in rusty NY. I have a few now and are impressed with the power and small packages.

When i need to get serious

Most blade bolts come off pretty easy.

Well I have been very please with the Air Cat 1150 with 1295 ft-lbs of break away torque. Actually uses less air than many of its competitors and runs around 86 dba noise level. I can use a 7 gallon air tank to remove blade bolts on most mowers. And yes I start at 125 psi standing pressure which drops to around 95 psi on the 100 ft run of air hose.

You people are causing yourselves a wagon full of un-necessary problems with those impacts . Oil the threads , tighten the nuts with a box wrench about 12" long until they feel tight and go mow . Those manufacturers are specifying those ridiculous torque values because of liability .

When a customer brings in a mower i have never seen before and Hercules replaced the blades 7 or 8 years ago i sometimes need the impact. Or when they hit something and it really overtightens a blade OR when they are star center blades and they hit something and twist the blade on the star and wedges it tight i sometimes need the impact.

SeniorCitizen said:

You people are causing yourselves a wagon full of un-necessary problems with those impacts . Oil the threads , tighten the nuts with a box wrench about 12" long until they feel tight and go mow . Those manufacturers are specifying those ridiculous torque values because of liability .

Click to expand...

Apparently you never had blades to come off or strip star mounts. I tighten all these screws and nuts to factory spec'd torque using a torque wrench and not the impact as 950 ft-lb will snap off most screws. Impacts are for removing these and not for installation.

StarTech said:

Impacts are for removing these and not for installation.

Click to expand...

The impacts are for installing spark plugs, not blades.

Hammermechanicman said:

The impacts are for installing spark plugs, not blades.

Click to expand...

OH BOY , you catch on fast .

It is all about proper maintenance or lack there of
When you get a customer who never removes a blade to sharpen it so spends 200 hours smashing his way through tough tufted grasses with very blunt blades and only brings in the mower when the missed strip between the blades is more than a foot or their is so little of the flute left that the deck clogs every 10 minutes then those blades will be really tight .
It has nothing to do with oiling the threads or proper tightness when replaced it is all about the spindle trying to turn the blade but the blade not turning at the same speed tightening the bolt / nut.
FWIW I have a 1" rattle gun that is good for 2500 ft lbs that I run off a Boomwade jackhammer compressor and there are some that even this will not shift till eventually it rips the head off the bolt
After that I can slip the blade off & undo the remainder of the bolt with my fingers.
The threads are not too tight, it is the head compressing the cup washers and clamping down too tight on the blade
Usually I keep a stock of blade bolts & cut off the heads that my 1/2 rattle won't shift because that is quicker than driving up to the machinery shed, firing up the 6 cylinder diesel engine, filling the 75 gallon tanks and hooking up the 1" gun ( ex coal mine ) in the hope that the head does not twist off because I don't have replacement bolt .

Hammermechanicman said:

When i need to get seriousView attachment 60015

Most blade bolts come off pretty easy.

Click to expand...

165 lbs of air....I tip my hat to you sir!

165 psi is way beyond the design spec of my Air Cat as it is designed for 90 psi supply.

Hopeful the air tank is designed for this much pressure and the tank is drained every so often to keep it from rusting out.

The compressor is a Quincy american made industrial 60 gal. Rated for 175psi. I installed an automatic drain so every time it starts it drains for ten seconds. The IR 2235 handles the pressure ok. I use 3/8 li e and high flow connectors. The air hammer is another story. Have to dial the pressure back or it is too violent to control

I kinda been looking at upgrading to 30 yrs + Manga 25 gal setup but finding room for a 60 gal might be problematic as the 24x24 shop is already so full that have work outside now.

I got an air hammer but have only used it once since 2014. Now die grinder get used every day and I need to upgrade it to one that uses less cfm but still has the same power. My main goal for this year is more vertical storage boxes for belts, pulleys, wire, and spindles that way I can keep the mice out of the belts and the wire.

I switched from a 40 gal horiz compressor to the vertical quincy. Takes up half the space.

StarTech said:

It does take a good impact to remove these blades. Even a good impact will have problem if there is resistance in the air supply line causing line pressure drop.

A good example of this was here. My AirCat 1150 couldn't even loosen my lug nuts on my pickup that were tighten to only 70 ft/lbs. Now of course I using a 100 ft 3/8 air line. My problem was the under size M style couplers and plugs. Even the properly size M couplers and plugs it still struggled. This is when check the supply pressure with the impact free running. The line pressure was dropping to 20 psi from the 125 psi standing pressure. I switch out all the couplers and plugs to V style (high flow) and I haven't had any problems since except for one Scag mower which has always cause problems removing the blade bolts.

The 1/2" Campbell Hausfeld impact that I had and gave was useless for removing many fasteners.

Click to expand...

Air pressure makes all the difference. And if you have a variable force impact make sure it's set on high. Also:
Some thoughts on penetrants for disassembly.
And when you reassemble, a dab of NeverSeize on the threads works wonders for the next disassembly. Some may say its dangerous but the majority of the clamping friction force is in the bolt head face and blade contact area....that and there is a lock washer involved, too.

I am old, slow and try not to overthing things. Every blade i put back on i put a dab of grease on the threads and zip them down with a few whacks of the impact. I know the world is gasping for air and clutching their chests at that statement. I do a couple hundred blades a year. Never had one come loose or snap a bolt or spindle or strip one. I know customers are risking certain death after i sharpen their blades.

I am working on one spindle that someone put an under grade 5 bolt in. I had tighten it to the spec per Hustler. The bolt snapped off while the customer was mowing his yard. Hopely the 9/32 LH bit will spin the remains out but I also have a #5 extractor coming in today in the order.

Sounds like fun.
I have a bunch of Ez outs my father gave me. He got them from uncle sam when he was working for the CCC as a millwright during the depression. Haven't used the 1" one yet.

I was going to a set from McMasters but the set is on a 6-8 week B/O so I just order the size I needed currently. Hopeful they are a lot better than those junk HFT ones as the first one I tried rounded off the spiral part.

Pretty well set for eztractors some are from the 1930's

Hammermechanicman said:

View attachment 60024

I switched from a 40 gal horiz compressor to the vertical quincy. Takes up half the space.

Click to expand...

I got a hydrovane compressor from a service station that was closing down with a 200 gallon vertical tank .
The tank lives outside the workshop next to the LPG bottles & oxy storage .
I bought a $ 100 bolt on green house to cover the compressor .
Liberated a lot of space .
The workshop was then plumbed with 1" plastic water pipe which is supposed to be good for 150 psi .
That idea came from a closed down truck work shop & saved a fortune on installation because the pipe is all compression fittings & the polly pipe is cheap
All of the droppers have a tap on the end for water removal & the air outlets are in T fittings
Dirt cheap & only took a day to do so I now have 10 air outlets inside & 4 outside .This allows the air hoses to be short and it is the hose length that really give you grief .

Sounds like a nice setup.

Hammermechanicman said:

Sounds like a nice setup.

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Took a long while to work out
Previously I had a std 10 gallon tank with twin cylinder compressor on top that could not keep up with the big air tools
Then we needed something for the 1" gun the landlord got for working on old farm tractors so I got the hydrovane ( really quiet ) compressor & receiver .
In the mean time he got the roadwork compressor really cheap so we could tow it into the paddock to work on stuff in situ so the hydrovane sat there .
Then I got 10 retractable air reels with 30' of hose on each & saw how the professional workshop had set things up.
Never thought of using blue line water pipe before and of course it is dirt cheap & so easy to install.
Being that all the lines are 1" there is no pressure drop and now most of the hoses I use are 10' to 20' and that makes a really big difference so the only long hoses are used for painting with a LPHV gun so having 60' of hose on that is no problem.
Been going to get some 1" outlets for ages but the number of times I need to use the 1" gun is not enough to justify the effort & the big gun lives in the back of the compressor trailer and that is 1/2 mile away .

StarTech said:

165 psi is way beyond the design spec of my Air Cat as it is designed for 90 psi supply.

Hopeful the air tank is designed for this much pressure and the tank is drained every so often to keep it from rusting out.

Click to expand...

Get out of the dark ages and buy you a good cordless impact. Milwaukee makes really good one with adjustable torque settings. It is on the heavy side but is real beast. Or you could go to Harbor Freight and buy the Earth Quake not as good as the Milwaukee has not setting but a beast as well.

hlw49 said:

Get out of the dark ages and buy you a good cordless impact. Milwaukee makes really good one with adjustable torque settings. It is on the heavy side but is real beast. Or you could go to Harbor Freight and buy the Earth Quake not as good as the Milwaukee has not setting but a beast as well.

Click to expand...

I stick with the Air Cat as at least it is half as noisy at 86 dBd than the HFT with is at 90 dBd. Every 3 dBd increase is double noise level.

As with Batteries I would be probably needing to replace the batteries every couple years. Besides I already had a air powered grease gun by HFT to fail on me.

My budget is too tight for that so I have buy very good tools that will last. My Air Cat has been with me for over 7 yrs now and my ears have thanked me for the lower noise levels.

Hopefully I will never a 3/4 or 1 inch impact though a 3/4 impact be needed later. But hopefully I will retire before having to need it. 2-1/2 yrs and counting down to retirement.

Ron3 said:

I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wrench.

Click to expand...

For professionals, who work on OPE for a living, air power is the best choice. For owners, a top quality 1/2” cordless electric impact will work fine. 5/8” blade bolts are usually torqued to around 108 ft pounds. My 1/2” Dewalt has no problem removing them. In fact, it doesn’t have a problem removing the lug nuts on my F-150. Those things are torqued to 150 ft pounds. Try putting just a dab of anti seize on the threads of each blade bolt.

I have the HF earthquake 1/2 impact. 3 years of almost daily use. It will handle most anything i need to remove. There are better ones out there but the earthquake gets the job done.

Hammermechanicman said:

View attachment 60024

I switched from a 40 gal horiz compressor to the vertical quincy. Takes up half the space.

Click to expand...

If I went that direction I get one thru my Amazon account as it would about $550 less for the same compressor. But I got find out the rated noise level of the unit. I got to keep things fairly quite in the neighbor. It is one the reason for my current impact as it has a built-in muffler.

MParr said:

For professionals, who work on OPE for a living, air power is the best choice. For owners, a top quality 1/2” cordless electric impact will work fine. 5/8” blade bolts are usually torqued to around 108 ft pounds. My 1/2” Dewalt has no problem removing them. In fact, it doesn’t have a problem removing the lug nuts on my F-150. Those things are torqued to 150 ft pounds. Try putting just a dab of anti seize on the threads of each blade bolt.

Click to expand...

Unlike the joke of an impact that I started out with. The Campbell Hausfeld from Walmart I had was given away after I got my current impact.

I am going to give the ATF and acetone mix a try later as I do run into a lot of rusty nuts. Nothing else has worked very well yet.

The Quincy compressor is not very quiet. When it kicks on i can't hear the radio and conversation is difficult.

Hammermechanicman said:

The Quincy compressor is not very quiet. When it kicks on i can't hear the radio and conversation is difficult.

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That why I ask as the neighborhood does have a noise restriction; sorta of, as a couple are third shaft workers so they sleep in the mornings. I trying to keep peace here. besides my roosters are loud enough to wake the dead at times if you are standing next to one.

I am doing my research for a quieter compressor that I can sit outdoors on the covered porch. When I do put one out there I will run 3/4 - 1 inch main lines to the outlets.

StarTech said:

Unlike the joke of an impact that I started out with. The Campbell Hausfeld from Walmart I had was given away after I got my current impact.

I am going to give the ATF and acetone mix a try later as I do run into a lot of rusty nuts. Nothing else has worked very well yet.

Click to expand...

I have tried the ATF and acetone thing and didn't see it working any better than anything else. I have about a half dozen spray cans on the shelf. Rust buster, kroil, liquid wrench, PB blaster, Deep Creep. Of all of them the Seafoam Deep Creep seems to work the best. I do have an oxy/propane torch that helps with the stubbirn ones. Been thinking about getting a mini ductor

StarTech said:

That why I ask as the neighborhood does have a noise restriction; sorta of, as a couple are third shaft workers so they sleep in the mornings. I trying to keep peace here. besides my roosters are loud enough to wake the dead at times if you are standing next to one.

I am doing my research for a quieter compressor that I can sit outdoors on the covered porch. When I do put one out there I will run 3/4 - 1 inch main lines to the outlets.

Click to expand...

Noise isn't a problem for me. I can walk out my back door to my pistol range in the back yard and and blast away. Country living has its perks.

Hammermechanicman said:

Noise isn't a problem for me. I can walk out my back door to my pistol range in the back yard and and blast away. Country living has its perks.

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Here what was country living is now the suburbs as for me too many city idiots have move out here. I even had a idiot neighbor's wife to swear that I opened up on their house with my 12 ga. Well first I wouldn't do that. And if I did there would a massive hole in their vinyl siding as T shot does a lot damage especially with express loads. Beside his wife can't tell the difference between a .22 and a 12 ga. He even accused me of not knowing how to use the guns safety that I have been using for nearly 50 yrs. At least I know not to shoot level with a 9mm pistol without a back stop of any kind beside he may have more rounds in his 9 mm than my .357 but with 158 grain hollow points it only take one hit to bring down what I shooting at.

Personally I am not on speaking terms with him or his wife anymore and that is fine with me.

Oh well I going field rat hunting and awaiting it to warm up some this morning before I lay down on that cold asphalt driveway.

Hammermechanicman said:

I have the HF earthquake 1/2 impact. 3 years of almost daily use. It will handle most anything i need to remove. There are better ones out there but the earthquake gets the job done.

Click to expand...

The HF Earthquake will get the job done. Here’s what I bought.

MParr said:

For professionals, who work on OPE for a living, air power is the best choice. For owners, a top quality 1/2” cordless electric impact will work fine. 5/8” blade bolts are usually torqued to around 108 ft pounds. My 1/2” Dewalt has no problem removing them. In fact, it doesn’t have a problem removing the lug nuts on my F-150. Those things are torqued to 150 ft pounds. Try putting just a dab of anti seize on the threads of each blade bolt.

Click to expand...

I use my 1/2 Dewalt 20 Volt impact to remove rotary cutter blades. Normal torque 350-450 lb/ft.

We got into the problems with the planet by "getting with it " and buying way too much that we did not need just to be "on trend" or fashionable .
Having just gone through my third flood in 3 months I have no intention of adding to the problem by tossing away perfectly good air tools in favour of highly polluting battery tools.
I need a compressor to inflate tyres , run the plenishing hammer, the air chisel & spray booth so using it to power the impact is the RIGHT thing to do by humanity and it does not hurt my waller either
Being set up for air I will remain with air & corded power tools as I have more of them than I actually need , many of which I got cheap because people were tossing out perfectly good corded 1/2" , 5/8 " & SD drills in order to be "with it "
If setting up from scratch I may have gone battery but having been in recycling and done chemistry I really do not want to be part of destroying the little of the planet we have left .
Battery tools are convienent & like all lazy things substantially worse for the planet , they are not clean , green & environmentally good they are filthy but they shift the pollution & environmental degration elsewhere so of course as it is not in our backyard it doesn't exist, till of course it does and we end up with a flood every month , tornados where there has never been any recoded before cyclones that exceed all known ones by orders of magnitude , show falls & / or hail so heavy that it caves in roofs .

SeniorCitizen said:

You people are causing yourselves a wagon full of un-necessary problems with those impacts . Oil the threads , tighten the nuts with a box wrench about 12" long until they feel tight and go mow . Those manufacturers are specifying those ridiculous torque values because of liability .

Click to expand...

I follow the factory torque spec or if I can't find that, look at the bolt size and torque value for it.

I like my feet and legs LOL. I'd look even funnier walking on my knees.

Also if you oil or anti sieze, any type of lube, you need LESS torque than a dry rating. Just an FYI.

StarTech said:

165 psi is way beyond the design spec of my Air Cat as it is designed for 90 psi supply.

Hopeful the air tank is designed for this much pressure and the tank is drained every so often to keep it from rusting out.

Click to expand...

Yup, most air tools are rated around 90psi. Some even lower.

Actually if you run a larger hose to the tool you get better performance anyway. It's not all about high psi. Course you get better jam at high psi with a smaller hose too. Woot woot....

Most of the issues I've seen are those cheesy regulators. Hit the trigger on any large air tool then let off. You will hear air still moving towards your tool. Huge pressure drop towards the tool building pressure back up. My tank needs a larger "volume" regulator I think???

Ron3 said:

I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wrench.

Click to expand...

When I first bought my Ferris I had trouble removing the blades even with a 1/2 air wrench. Since then I picked up a really long breaker bar on sale cheap at Harbor Freight.

Ron3 said:

I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wrench.

Click to expand...

Use anti-sieze

Just put anti seize paste on the threads…easy removal

Never Seize !

I am not a professional mechanic so I have no need for the pneumatic impacts yall are talking bout. I have always wedged a broken axe handle between the blade and the deck and then, using a cheater bar and an old craftsman 1/2" ratchet, I loosen (and then tighten) the blade bolt. Little more time consuming but always works for me. Just sayin

What does this have to do with my post ?

Ron3 said:

I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wrench.

Click to expand...

s

RevB said:

Air pressure makes all the difference. And if you have a variable force impact make sure it's set on high. Also:

Please confirm MW article on Penetrating Oil - The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop Magazine's BBS

Some thoughts on penetrants for disassembly.
And when you reassemble, a dab of NeverSeize on the threads works wonders for the next disassembly. Some may say its dangerous but the majority of the clamping friction force is in the bolt head face and blade contact area....that and there is a lock washer involved, too.

Click to expand...

I've found Kroil penetrant to be better than most for rusted bolts/nuts that have become one with the threads. It might take a while for the Kroil to seep into the threads. As a last resort, short of cutting the bolt off, a torch or heat gun judicially applied to the end of the blade shaft where the bolt enters, and on the bolt head might help, but be careful not to heat other areas that could catch fire. The heat could cause the bolt to lengthen slightly and the inside diameter of the shaft to expand enough to help removal. Applying penetrant while the bolt is warm can also improve penetration. A cycle of tightening slightly, just a few hits with the impact wrench, followed by aggressive loosening can sometimes help break corrosion. Anti-seize is also a good recommendation to reduce corrosion.

You probably already are aware of the bolt thread direction for your mower, but I once had a finishing mower used on a tractor that had left-hand threaded bolts for the blades. Only one bolt sheared off before I realized the threads were left-hand.

Hammermechanicman said:

View attachment 60031

Pretty well set for eztractors some are from the 1930's

Click to expand...

I used to use those till I found these, they don't dig down & expand tightening against hole.

Ron3 said:

I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wrench.

Click to expand...

If and when you remove the bolts, re-install them using an anti seize compound on the threads. Guaranteed to never have trouble removing them again. Keep in mind that when the threads are lubed that the torque value will be less. I replaced the standard bolts with grade 8.

Ron3 said:

I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wrench.

Click to expand...

You will probably have to put some heat to fitting. When you do get it apart put antiseaze on the threads.

Ron3 said:

I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wrench.

Click to expand...

I'm guessing you tried turning in the other direction. I've seen a lot of left hand thread bolts on mower blades.

Ron3 said:

I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wre

Click to expand...

Ron3 said:

I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wrench.

Click to expand...

I've had a Turf Tiger since 2006. Never had a problem using 1/2" drive Ingersol air pressure 90 - 110 psi. Neighbor brought his over for grease and sharpening, and spindle/blade nuts were same problem you're having. I have a Scag manuf blade lock I applied and used a long 1/2" breaker bar with a pipe to extend the handle. Nothing is ever not removable. You can apply too much torque to the nuts if your not familiar with an impact gun. Try using a torque wrench tightening to the manuf specified torque, then remove with a regular bar and socket. Many owners over tighten their blade bolts without realizing it. The nuts will never loosen at specified torque.

bertsmobile1 said:

We got into the problems with the planet by "getting with it " and buying way too much that we did not need just to be "on trend" or fashionable .
Having just gone through my third flood in 3 months I have no intention of adding to the problem by tossing away perfectly good air tools in favour of highly polluting battery tools.
I need a compressor to inflate tyres , run the plenishing hammer, the air chisel & spray booth so using it to power the impact is the RIGHT thing to do by humanity and it does not hurt my waller either
Being set up for air I will remain with air & corded power tools as I have more of them than I actually need , many of which I got cheap because people were tossing out perfectly good corded 1/2" , 5/8 " & SD drills in order to be "with it "
If setting up from scratch I may have gone battery but having been in recycling and done chemistry I really do not want to be part of destroying the little of the planet we have left .
Battery tools are convienent & like all lazy things substantially worse for the planet , they are not clean , green & environmentally good they are filthy but they shift the pollution & environmental degration elsewhere so of course as it is not in our backyard it doesn't exist, till of course it does and we end up with a flood every month , tornados where there has never been any recoded before cyclones that exceed all known ones by orders of magnitude , show falls & / or hail so heavy that it caves in roofs .

Click to expand...

Call me the environmentally unfriendly guy but i like my air and battery tools. After seeing how much large corporations waste and put in landfills i don't feel too bad.

slydog said:

I've had a Turf Tiger since 2006. Never had a problem using 1/2" drive Ingersol air pressure 90 - 110 psi. Neighbor brought his over for grease and sharpening, and spindle/blade nuts were same problem you're having. I have a Scag manuf blade lock I applied and used a long 1/2" breaker bar with a pipe to extend the handle. Nothing is ever not removable. You can apply too much torque to the nuts if your not familiar with an impact gun. Try using a torque wrench tightening to the manuf specified torque, then remove with a regular bar and socket. Many owners over tighten their blade bolts with realizing it. The nuts will never loosen at specified torque.

Click to expand...

Zip em down till the threads strip and then back off a quarter turn. Works every time.

Hammermechanicman said:

The impacts are for installing spark plugs, not blades.

Click to expand...

I use the impact also for carb studs. head bolts, and valve cover bolts. I'd use it for rod bearings, but I can't find one small enough to fit in the crank case.

Mine usually is a 1/2" breaker bar and a piece of wood.

1/2" breaker bars work great. Never would have imagined we could get to 6 pages on how to remove a bolt holding a mower blade on. Now if this was an axle nut on a VW bus we might be having a different conversation. I've seen those hold up to a ton of pressure without releasing.

Blade bolts do not self tighten. If you have difficulty you are tightening them too tight to begin with and fail to clean and lubricate the threads. A simple box end or 8" ratchet will tighten them sufficiently. Small couplers do not lower the Pressure, they lower the Volume.

Exactly Been there on both.

Small couplers do not lower the Pressure, they lower the Volume.

Click to expand...

Huh? Try standing 280 lbs on the end of a 7' long pipe on a 1" breaker bar sometime on one of those axle nuts, so much that the 1" forged breaker bar snaps. That is a lot of torque put on a nut. Been there. Has nothing to do with volume. Torque is torque. You won't get 2000 lbs of torque on a small mower bolt without breaking something else a long time before. I can see where a blade bolt could rust on after many seasons to where a breaker bar or heat is needed. Normally a good closed end wrench and a block of wood is all that is needed. Just have to position hands so if something gives the hands don't hit the blade.

Gord Baker said:

Small couplers do not lower the Pressure, they lower the Volume.

Click to expand...

Try telling that to my pressure gauge that was installed at the impact.

sgkent said:

Huh? Try standing 280 lbs on the end of a 7' long pipe on a 1" breaker bar sometime on one of those axle nuts, so much that the 1" forged breaker bar snaps. That is a lot of torque put on a nut. Been there. Has nothing to do with volume. Torque is torque. You won't get 2000 lbs of torque on a small mower bolt without breaking something else a long time before. I can see where a blade bolt could rust on after many seasons to where a breaker bar or heat is needed. Normally a good closed end wrench and a block of wood is all that is needed. Just have to position hands so if something gives the hands don't hit the blade.

Click to expand...

I got a Scag Turf Tiger in the shop right now that before I got a good impact I had use a 5' extension on my breaker bar and row boat those blade bolts loose.

So far I have been lucky to only need to torque an axle nut to 300 ft-lbs.

StarTech said:

Try telling that to my pressure gauge that was installed at the impact.

I got a Scag Turf Tiger in the shop right now that before I got a good impact I had use a 5 extension on my breaker bar and row boat those blade bolts loose.

So far I have been lucky to only need to torque an axle nut to 300 ft-lbs.

Click to expand...

253 ft lbs on, same as a gland nut, but sometimes they won't come off even with a ton of torque literally. They make a special tool, breaker bar goes on it, and while the torque is on it, BFH smacks the tool. The shock breaks the axle nut loose. I didn't have the tool and had to dremel the nut off. Other side came off fine. Go figure. After reading 7 pages on all the ways to remove a mower blade bolt, I think maybe I missed out on some of life's greater thrills......

SeniorCitizen said:

You people are causing yourselves a wagon full of un-necessary problems with those impacts . Oil the threads , tighten the nuts with a box wrench about 12" long until they feel tight and go mow . Those manufacturers are specifying those ridiculous torque values because of liability .

Click to expand...

That's what I do too. Block of wood wedged between the blade and deck to hold it, long box wrench loosens the bolt. Reverse to tighten.

Gord Baker said:

Blade bolts do not self tighten. If you have difficulty you are tightening them too tight to begin with and fail to clean and lubricate the threads. A simple box end or 8" ratchet will tighten them sufficiently. Small couplers do not lower the Pressure, they lower the Volume.

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Tell that to the customer that we used to put the blade nuts on with our fingers in March and in July we had to use the 1" 1600 lb/ft impact to remove them. And in this case it was a long bolt that went through the center of the spindle shaft with the nut on top,

sgkent said:

253 ft lbs on, same as a gland nut, but sometimes they won't come off even with a ton of torque literally. They make a special tool, breaker bar goes on it, and while the torque is on it, BFH smacks the tool. The shock breaks the axle nut loose. I didn't have the tool and had to dremel the nut off. Other side came off fine. Go figure. After reading 7 pages on all the ways to remove a mower blade bolt, I think maybe I missed out on some of life's greater thrills......

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Ask 10 bakers how to bake a cake and you will get at least 11 different recipes.

Gord Baker said:

Blade bolts do not self tighten. If you have difficulty you are tightening them too tight to begin with and fail to clean and lubricate the threads. A simple box end or 8" ratchet will tighten them sufficiently. Small couplers do not lower the Pressure, they lower the Volume.

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Well....... actually if you have blades with a single center bolt with nothing to hold it like a star or a couple bolts in the adapter the blades tend to self tighten and if the customer hits a root or something solid it can tighten the bolt to SOB levels. Just engaging the blades at full throttle can tighten blades. Had a commercial customer who changed blades every day and he could put the blade bolts in just past finger tight and after he engaged the blades at full throttle a couple times he needs a wrench to get them off.

Hammermechanicman said:

Well....... actually if you have blades with a single center bolt with nothing to hold it like a star or a couple bolts in the adapter the blades tend to self tighten and if the customer hits a root or something solid it can tighten the bolt to SOB levels. Just engaging the blades at full throttle can tighten blades. Had a commercial customer who changed blades every day and he could put the blade bolts in just past finger tight and after he engaged the blades at full throttle a couple times he needs a wrench to get them off.

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Yeah most people tighten their blades crazy tight for no good reason. I know a guy who broke 2 bolts just tightening his blades. People with common sense understand that the bolts are always tightening themselves when you run the mower. I use a small compact dewalt impact to get them off an on. Never have any trouble. Anti seize on the threads of course.

Gord Baker said:

Blade bolts do not self tighten. If you have difficulty you are tightening them too tight to begin with and fail to clean and lubricate the threads. A simple box end or 8" ratchet will tighten them sufficiently. Small couplers do not lower the Pressure, they lower the Volume.

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Rubbish
If the blade has a round hole then it will self tighten
So the star shapes found on domestics naturally can not tighten and neither can the ones that sit in a cradle held down with 2 small bolts like some of the older Murray & JD mowers
However all of the current crop of of commercials do self tighten .
I have 6 Toro Z masters in my repair run
3 of them are used commercially & 3 are residentials
The residentials are no problem because I see them every 2 years os so for a service when I sharpen the blades
Two of the commercial customers get me to swap their blades every week & they are no problem
THe final owner cuts street verges on country roads & runs his blades till they are worn to stumps
His bolts have to be cut off
I always use a tension wrench to do the final tension on blades so none of them are over or under tightened

Hammermechanicman said:

I am old, slow and try not to overthing things. Every blade i put back on i put a dab of grease on the threads and zip them down with a few whacks of the impact. I know the world is gasping for air and clutching their chests at that statement. I do a couple hundred blades a year. Never had one come loose or snap a bolt or spindle or strip one. I know customers are risking certain death after i sharpen their blades.

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You might try KROIL, best penetrating oil you will find, it loosens stuff I thought never would come apart. Remember, use sparingly, the part that runs on the floor does not work...r

buy a new mower if you can't get the blade off. You can sell me your old one cheap, and I'll take care of it.

StarTech said:

Apparently you never had blades to come off or strip star mounts. I tighten all these screws and nuts to factory spec'd torque using a torque wrench and not the impact as 950 ft-lb will snap off most screws. Impacts are for removing these and not for installation.

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That's right , never had a blade come off .

RayMcD said:

You might try KROIL, best penetrating oil you will find, it loosens stuff I thought never would come apart. Remember, use sparingly, the part that runs on the floor does not work...r

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I have PB blaster, Kroil, seafoam deep creep, liquid wrench, and a couple others. Have never really seen a big difference in any them. My go-to for rusty bolts is the oxy/propane torch. If it is just a nut and bolt i snap them off with the impact and replace them. Life is short. Tractor supply sells nuts and bolts by the pound.

Hammermechanicman said:

I have PB blaster, Kroil, seafoam deep creep, liquid wrench, and a couple others. Have never really seen a big difference in any them. My go-to for rusty bolts is the oxy/propane torch. If it is just a nut and bolt i snap them off with the impact and replace them. Life is short. Tractor supply sells nuts and bolts by the pound.

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They might but at least Sunday they didn't have any 5/8-11 x 2.25 Grade 8 ones. Not even a grade 2 in that size. So I ordered 10 from McMasters Monday and they were here the next business day. I even got them in amour coat for a few pennies more.

And of course no one around seems to even know what metrics are.

Besides by the time I drive 50 miles round trip it is just a cheap if not cheaper to order the hardware.

As for rusty screws and nuts I got something here to try the next I run into one as none of the perpetrators mention has worked for me either. Just can't snap off screws (bolts) in things. It is a pain to remove the remains and most I have to resize or use helicoils.

A couple years ago i bought about 20 pounds of assorted bolts nuts and washers in different bolt lengths and grades. I don't snap off bolts in equipment. Just when it is bolts in nuts that are easily replaced.

Now that makes better sense. I was hoping that was the route you was referring to but you know there some here that will assume you meant all of them.

Ron3 said:

I have a mz42 great mower but the blade bolts are really difficult to remove for sharpening even with impact wrench.

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Block the blades and use a 1/2"
x 12" breaker bar to loosen up. Do not overtighten and use antifoulent when reinstalling.

they're "supposed to" self-tighten.

When you turn the blades OFF, there is the pto clutch, which has a brake built into it. It's job is to stop the blades within 5 seconds of turning the blades off.

Therein lies an issue. If you put them in loose, turn the blades on and then back off, the inertia of the spinning blades then tries to loosen the bolts, and sometimes does.

If you torque 'em like they're supposed to be, with good quality bolts, they won't come back out until they need to be removed again.

On bad boy, they use chinese cheap fasteners that often seize into the chincanese spindle shafts. It just happens. And since they are 5/8'11, they're in there tighter than dick's hatband anyway, then they tend to seize up, and short of a 4' cheater on a 4' breakover, the only other way to remove them is heat. heat the bolt head nice and hot and then back it on out. Done tons of them like that. Bad boy uses very cheap designs on a lot of things, it works, but it's not ideal. It saves them (and ultimately you) some money.

With all due respect, they use 5/8x18 grade 8 fine thread blade bolts, . I just needed a bigger compressor mine was really small problem solved. Again with all due respect you seem to have a very negative attitude toward bad boy. Just my 2cents

Gord Baker said:

Small couplers do not lower the Pressure, they lower the Volume.

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Yes and no. What most people don't realize is that air tool ratings like 90 psig are dynamic at the inlet of the tool, meaning it is measured while the tool is running free speed, so reduced volume of expanding air means lower pressure. Most set ups with a couple of 1/4" quick disconnects and 25 foot of 3/8" hose will struggle to achieve 90 psig dynamic at the tool with 130 psig at the compressor.
I realize this is my first post but I have a Bad Boy ZT Elite and was researching new blades and stumbled on this thread which interested me due to my background. The first 27 years of my career was at Ingersoll Rand where I lead the development of the majority of their air impacts currently on the market and the last 6 years I have been at a private company that supplies air and cordless tools to some of the major mobile tool companies. Just wanted to explain why I would chime in on the subject and say that if anyone has any questions on air tools or cordless tools, let me know and I will try to help.

I know one thing that 5/8-18 on a Gravely can be a real pain to get lossen. I wasn't break them free with my 1300 ft-lb AirCat impact nor with a 5 ft pull bar with both feet on the mower. I just sent the customer someone with a 3/4 and 1 inch impacts to see if he can loosen them. After you get above 150 ft-lbs things to fuse to each other.

Lugbolt
With due respect Lugbolt, yes what you said is correct about self loosening .
However that would only be the case for a blade that has just been installed and not used to cut grass .
Once the blade starts to work it will self tighten due to the drag applied to the blades by the grass being cut .
Again if you used to mower properly and only cut the recommended 1/3 grass length regularly then perhaps the self tightening effect would be less .
The only blades that I have ever seen come loose in use are the star holed ones that were not installed correctly ,

As for cheap Chinese fasteners I would be amazed if any mower maker did not use imported fasteners .
The market is just so tight & people are just so cheap .

Star,
Yes any 2 pieces of the same metal that come into intimate contact with each other will bond on a molecular level thus is the nature of the metallic bond .
So if you put a perfectly clean bolt into a perfectly clean shaft it would bond just as strong as a weld effectivly making the shaft & bolt one single item.
This is why the threads are plated or phosphated .
The USA found this out during the early days of the space race when they used relays only to find that in outer space the oxide coating on the surface of the contacts evaporated and the tiny voltages passing across the contacts was more than enough to weld them closed .
The nature of threads is such that when done up the two surfaces can scrape against each other to provide an active surface that will bond .

That is basically what I figured out here on my own and it explains why so many people destroy cross point screws. They need to be shocked as I call it to break this bond. before attempting to loosen them. Even many stubborn screws can loosen using a initial smack.

I recently was told per service manual I could use a hub puller to remove the hubs that were tapers tighten to 300 ft-lbs. Well you can't as they are bonded after a while. It cost 200 usd to find out the manual was wrong.

I am amazed how much trouble people have with blade bolts. I remove and sharpen or replace a couple hundred blades a year. I zip them off with 6 point impact sockets and put some grease on the threads before i zip them back on with an impact. I don't use a torque wrench (it aint the space shuttle). Never snapped or stripped a bolt. Never had a blade come loose. Only ones i really have trouble with are the ones where someone hits something and F'd it up. Like the one with the star and they hit a pipe and sheared and smeared the star on the spindle. So tight the impact sheared the head off the bolt. Going to get a new spindle anyway. Haven't had a blade bolt yet my impact wouldn't take off.

Pat6366 said:

The first 27 years of my career was at Ingersoll Rand where I lead the development of the majority of their air impacts currently on the market.

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I have a well (ab)used IR 2135TI running 140psi with 3/8" lines and hi-flow couplers. Gets the job done.

My impact is an AirCat 1150K which has 900 ft-lb maximum torque and 1,295 ft-lb of loosening torque and I am using V style hi flow couplers and plugs. Now it is a lot quieter than the 109dB Ir 2135TI since iit has a tuned exhaust (86 dBA). Now it does consume more air at 8 cfm vs the 5 cfm if IR.

Now of course I am only running 125 psi vs your 140 psi. I also using a 125 ft 3/8" hose.

I use an Hydrovane compressor ( oh so quiet ) on 3 phase power
When I replaced the single phase compressor with this one it knocked near $ 100 a quarter of the power bill.
It feeds into a 8' vertical receiver .
When I bought some retractable 1/2" air hoses from a truck repair business I noted that they had used Blue Line plastic water pipe to run the air around the factory so I did the same
A 2" ring main off the receiver tank then step down T joints 2" to 1" for the droppers with a 1" to 3/4 " take off with a reducing bush for the air take off and a plug about 1' further down to drain water , The plumbing is at ceiling height .
All cheap hand tighten water fittings rated to 120 psi and to date not given me the slightest bit of bother
This allows me to keep the flex lines very short and that makes a massive difference to the days when I had 3 x 30 yard lines hooked together .
Good for rented spaces because it all pulls apart and gets taken away
Highly illegal of course but 1/4 the price & 1/10 the effort of doing it in gal tube as it is supposed to be done

Same thing can happen if you converted the whole house to 3 phase. But it is hard to get the electric companies and electricians to wire homes with three phase. Things like motors are so much more efficient using 3 phase. But I am stuck on single phase service even through three phase lines runs by the home and shop. Besides electric company don't want the average consumer knowing this either as it would cost the electric money.

Hammermechanicman said:

I have a well (ab)used IR 2135TI running 140psi with 3/8" lines and hi-flow couplers. Gets the job done.

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One of my favorite projects. When that first went into production the titanium front end was made by Ruger in Prescott, Arizona, they had set up an investment casting facility for making Ti golf club heads for one of the major club manufacturers who then started sourcing from China a couple years later so they were looking for anything to fill the capacity and we were looking for a source to make our front end.

StarTech said:

My impact is an AirCat 1150K which has 900 ft-lb maximum torque and 1,295 ft-lb of loosening torque and I am using V style hi flow couplers and plugs. Now it is a lot quieter than the 109dB Ir 2135TI since iit has a tuned exhaust (86 dBA). Now it does consume more air at 8 cfm vs the 5 cfm if IR.

Now of course I am only running 125 psi vs your 140 psi. I also using a 125 ft 3/8" hose.

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First rule of impact wrenches, do not believe any manufactures specs, you cannot compare one to the other because they all test differently.

Pat6366 said:

First rule of impact wrenches, do not believe any manufactures specs, you cannot compare one to the other because they all test differently.

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All I know for sure it out performs the Snap-on one it replaced. I sold the Snap-on to a diehard Snap-on user for what I paid for it.

StarTech said:

All I know for sure it out performs the Snap-on one it replaced. I sold the Snap-on to a diehard Snap-on user for what I paid for it.

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Snap-on impacts have never been the leaders, but the hardcore fans still buy them.

Snap off makes nice tools and markets them well but not for me. I don't need the tool truck to bring me tools for a more than premium price. Many mechanics need the cool factor of a big snap off tool box filled with their tools. I don't measure my mechanics ability by the name on my toolbox. To each their own.

Got ifixed, 60 gal uprite compressor, snap on 1/2inch air wrench. Work perfect easy removal