Export thread

Best value SCAG for my situation?

#1

D

dustyboots

Hello. 5 acres of former cow pasture in South Central Texas. Mostly native grasses, but will seed turf at some point. Soil has a good bit of clay and is pitted from hooves, so it is not smooth. Most flat, but a couple ditches/swales.

Looking at the Patriot and lower levels based on budget.

Seems like buying based on transaxle might be smart from a value standpoint.

The 52" Patriot has the ZT3100 and the 61" Patriot has the ZT3400.
The Freedom and Liberty lines mostly have the ZT2800, *but* the 61" Liberty has the ZT3100 (and the Ogura GT2 108ftlb clutch)!
Spindles are all aluminum with sealed bearings. All have Hero decks.

MSRPs:
The Patriots with the ZT3100 are about $9k.
The Patriots with the ZT3400 are about $10k.
The 61" Liberty is about $7k

That's a difference of about $2,000 - $3,000 for the upgrade to Patriot models, which have the suspension seat, bigger tires, 0.5" higher max cut, foot lever parking brake, and 1 gal bigger gas tanks.

It seems to me that the 61" Liberty is a good value as it has the same transaxle and clutch as most of the Patriot models. Engine choice aside, is the overall build quality that much lower than the Patriots? Is there something that I am missing in this analysis? What else are you getting for that $2-3k? Thanks!


#2

H

hlw49

ZT3400 Is a commercial hydro. Suspension seats are nice bigger tires are a plus. You have to make the choice.


#3

D

dustyboots

Thank you.
I agree that bigger tires and suspension seat are nice. My local dealer has no floor models, will have to order. Any input on the build quality of the Liberty vs Patriot lines in terms of frame, chassis, whatever else?


#4

7394

7394

I'm 3 years in on my Liberty 48" w/Kaw power.. Great for my needs, it's a solid built machine...


#5

H

hlw49

We are Dixie Chopper and Stihl Dealers. Stihl mowers are built by Ferris. Can not give any advice on the Scagg mowers other than they seem to be a good line of mower that the upper end of the line is used in the commercial lawn care industry.


#6

H

hlw49

One thing I will tell you about the Kawasaki engines. They are a good engine. You need to really do as they reccomend and adjust the valves every 350 hours as this is the weakest area of the engine. If they would fix this weak link in the engine they would have the best engine in the industry.


#7

M

MParr

If Scag is your choice for 5 acres, the Patriot 61” would be the one to get.


#8

D

dustyboots

MParr said:
If Scag is your choice for 5 acres, the Patriot 61” would be the one to get.
Click to expand...
I'm open to other suggestions. My only experience with at ZT is a John Deere that a family member owns. Dealer is recommending Scag and gave me their catalog, so it is the brand that I have researched the most. What would your choice be?


#9

M

MParr

Toro
Gravely
Exmark
Bad Boy
Look for something with ZT 3400 minimum and 25hp.
I cut 3 acres weekly and have a Gravely Pro Turn 260 with a 25hp Kohler and ZT 5400s.
You would be best served with a 60” entry level commercial mower or better.


#10

Its Me

Its Me

dustyboots that used not to be that big of a decision years ago but with the prices of Mowers today it is a big decision, I have Scags, 48' Tiger Cub, Turf tiger, have three of them 61" cut and a turf tiger with the 72" deck, when it comes to cutting the 5 acres here does not take long with that 72", these I speak of are commercial models, If you get one of the larger ones you will have to grease the spindles, that is where people fall short of keeping them up, they have tapered bearings, I had to rebuild one the other day with 1,700 hours on it, just take care of whatever you choose to get, sharp blades, don't cut down to the ground, give it a chance to discharge the grass and keep it out of the weather, those you speak of are good but spend the money and get the largest you can afford, it will last you many years.​


hlw49​

many years ago I had a mower shop and now retired in my 70's and have a repair shop at home again, I say all that for a background that I know from experience that it does not pay to down grade other mowers to sell yours, I commend you on that, all I would say when they would bring up one brand that a mower shop sold of big box store is when they cannot repair them we will but we first service our customers, I had opened my shop in 1980, the Dixie salesman come it was their first year to sell them, I asked about the way they were designed he said they were a grain elevator company and that was left over parts, it had a horizontal engine with four v-belt pullies in order to get the belt to the deck, I saw that as a weakness and ask the salesman what its should I stock so I don't have customers waiting on parts, he quickly said, Idlers, it eats them real fast, I said when they go to a vertical engine I would consider, they did the next year but I had two brands and doing well with them and had parts to fix them, I work on some choppers here at home, we have lost both dealers in this area, where might you be located, happy mechanizing, Joe​



#11

D

dustyboots

Thanks y'all. Joe, I'm between Brenham and La Grange. Good advice all around. Thank you for helping me get educated on this stuff. I'm going to check some dealers in other towns nearby and look more closely at the lines they carry. I do think it would be nice to have a dealer within a reasonable distance for parts and service, though I like to do my own fluids, filters, lube and basic maintenance on my vehicles and equipment.

I appreciate all the feedback and suggestions, thank you.


#12

M

MParr

You can get a Bad Boy Rebel 61” for the same money as a Scag Patriot.
The Rebel comes with a Kawasaki FX850V engine and Hydro Gear ZT4400 transmissions.
The Rebel is way more mower than the Scag. It’s heavier and is built stouter. This is a true commercial mower.
WC Tractor in Brenham, TX


#13

D

dustyboots

Sounds interesting, thank you. I haven’t looked at bad boy yet, but I definitely will now. 👍


#14

M

MParr

dustyboots said:
Sounds interesting, thank you. I haven’t looked at bad boy yet, but I definitely will now. 👍
Click to expand...
Good value.


#15

M

MParr

If you think that’s too much mower, you can move down to the Bad Boy Maverick HD 60. It has the same ZT3400 transmission as the Scag Patriot and it’s still heavier built than the Patriot.
badboycountry.com

Maverick HD Commercial Lawn Mower | Bad Boy Mowers

Maverick HD Zero Turn Mower featuring the EZ-Ride System, We paid close attention to what every premier lawncare professionals want in a riding mower.
badboycountry.com badboycountry.com


#16

G

Grasswhore

Might look at Hustler Fastrac SDX. Can get Kawasaki FX730, Hydrogear 3400's and 54 or 61 inch cuts and suspension seat. I wanted the Patriot, but they went to self contained reservoirs on the 3400's and I want separate reservoirs that I can see and fill with worrying about contamination from grass clippings. I have a 14 year old Freedom Z that has been phenomenal, but alas they have cheapened it's quality in the intervening years.


#17

M

MParr

Grasswhore said:
Might look at Hustler Fastrac SDX. Can get Kawasaki FX730, Hydrogear 3400's and 54 or 61 inch cuts and suspension seat. I wanted the Patriot, but they went to self contained reservoirs on the 3400's and I want separate reservoirs that I can see and fill with worrying about contamination from grass clippings. I have a 14 year old Freedom Z that has been phenomenal, but alas they have cheapened it's quality in the intervening years.
Click to expand...
While you are looking, stop by the Gravely dealer and look at the Pro Turn 160. It’s equipped similarly to the Hustler Fastrac SDX.


#18

1

13brian

dustyboots said:
Hello. 5 acres of former cow pasture in South Central Texas. Mostly native grasses, but will seed turf at some point. Soil has a good bit of clay and is pitted from hooves, so it is not smooth. Most flat, but a couple ditches/swales.

Looking at the Patriot and lower levels based on budget.

Seems like buying based on transaxle might be smart from a value standpoint.

The 52" Patriot has the ZT3100 and the 61" Patriot has the ZT3400.
The Freedom and Liberty lines mostly have the ZT2800, *but* the 61" Liberty has the ZT3100 (and the Ogura GT2 108ftlb clutch)!
Spindles are all aluminum with sealed bearings. All have Hero decks.

MSRPs:
The Patriots with the ZT3100 are about $9k.
The Patriots with the ZT3400 are about $10k.
The 61" Liberty is about $7k

That's a difference of about $2,000 - $3,000 for the upgrade to Patriot models, which have the suspension seat, bigger tires, 0.5" higher max cut, foot lever parking brake, and 1 gal bigger gas tanks.

It seems to me that the 61" Liberty is a good value as it has the same transaxle and clutch as most of the Patriot models. Engine choice aside, is the overall build quality that much lower than the Patriots? Is there something that I am missing in this analysis? What else are you getting for that $2-3k? Thanks!
Click to expand...
I have very similar with 4.6 acres of ex-horse pasture. Agree with you, I have the Liberty Z 61" for 4 years now, haven't regretted it for a moment, paid about $6k for year end sale. I am glad I bought a Scag, it is built solid and tough, I don't worry about anything. I bought aftermarket suspension seat (found model/instructions online forum) and am very happy with it. I got free 48 month financing, just made the last payment, liked using free money. Still has a year of warranty left on it, with no claims. I am considering putting front wheel suspension on it, but have not yet done so.


#19

7394

7394

(y)


#20

D

DinosaurMike

13brian said:
I have very similar with 4.6 acres of ex-horse pasture. Agree with you, I have the Liberty Z 61" for 4 years now, haven't regretted it for a moment, paid about $6k for year end sale. I am glad I bought a Scag, it is built solid and tough, I don't worry about anything. I bought aftermarket suspension seat (found model/instructions online forum) and am very happy with it. I got free 48 month financing, just made the last payment, liked using free money. Still has a year of warranty left on it, with no claims. I am considering putting front wheel suspension on it, but have not yet done so.
Click to expand...
I am curious about your mowing of the ex-horse pasture. The OP mentioned hoof pits. Is your pasture smooth enough to mow comfortably? It sounds crazy, but would it be any advantage to have the pasture rolled to smooth it out? I'm a village kid so be easy on me.


#21

1

13brian

DinosaurMike said:
I am curious about your mowing of the ex-horse pasture. The OP mentioned hoof pits. Is your pasture smooth enough to mow comfortably? It sounds crazy, but would it be any advantage to have the pasture rolled to smooth it out? I'm a village kid so be easy on me.
Click to expand...
It is rough in spots to be sure and is not what I'd call comfortable, everywhere. But I can get it done in two hours. The bouncing is more from the vole structures (some reference them as moles) than leftover horse hoof pits. It can get so bad on the bouncing I will have to come to a complete stop. But, full speed can be more smooth than a slower pace, depends on the area.
So, I would like to have it rolled for that, but it would take a very heavy roller on moist soil and I am not sure how long it would last with the vole mounds and tracks.


#22

1

13brian

DinosaurMike said:
I am curious about your mowing of the ex-horse pasture. The OP mentioned hoof pits. Is your pasture smooth enough to mow comfortably? It sounds crazy, but would it be any advantage to have the pasture rolled to smooth it out? I'm a village kid so be easy on me.
Click to expand...
It is rough in spots to be sure and is not what I'd call comfortable, everywhere. But I can get it done in two hours. The bouncing is more from the vole structures (some reference them as moles) than leftover horse hoof pits. It can get so bad on the bouncing I will have to come to a complete stop. But, full speed can be more smooth than a slower pace, depends on the area.
So, I would like to have it rolled for that, but it would take a very heavy roller on moist soil and I am not sure how long it would last with the vole mounds and tracks.


#23

D

dustyboots

Well, I just bought a Grasshopper 125V 61"

Kind of a surprise, but I'm visiting family in NE Oklahoma and went to look at mowers. Small dealer gave me a great price on the Grasshopper, and I couldn't pass it up. We'll see how it does. It will be a few weeks before I can get it down there and start mowing.

Regarding the comments about rolling to smooth the ground. I don't know. I've heard that it works and that it's a waste of time. Probably depends on soil, technique, etc. I'm just going to mow and see how it goes. I know that on the property up here it got smoother with time. We're near the AR border and it is hilly and rocky. Pulled out tons of rocks and over a couple of years it slowly smoothed out. My plan is to just give it a go and if it is really bad, look at rolling or whatever if I feel like it is really necessary.

Thanks again to all for your thoughts and suggestions!

Attachments





#24

1

13brian

dustyboots said:
Well, I just bought a Grasshopper 125V 61"

Kind of a surprise, but I'm visiting family in NE Oklahoma and went to look at mowers. Small dealer gave me a great price on the Grasshopper, and I couldn't pass it up. We'll see how it does. It will be a few weeks before I can get it down there and start mowing.

Regarding the comments about rolling to smooth the ground. I don't know. I've heard that it works and that it's a waste of time. Probably depends on soil, technique, etc. I'm just going to mow and see how it goes. I know that on the property up here it got smoother with time. We're near the AR border and it is hilly and rocky. Pulled out tons of rocks and over a couple of years it slowly smoothed out. My plan is to just give it a go and if it is really bad, look at rolling or whatever if I feel like it is really necessary.

Thanks again to all for your thoughts and suggestions!
Click to expand...
Good luck, congrats on a great deal. I know Grasshoppers to be great machines. I hear the short wheelbase makes them pretty bouncy, I do hope it works out for you perfectly. Please keep us updated on your status.


#25

M

MParr

dustyboots said:
Well, I just bought a Grasshopper 125V 61"

Kind of a surprise, but I'm visiting family in NE Oklahoma and went to look at mowers. Small dealer gave me a great price on the Grasshopper, and I couldn't pass it up. We'll see how it does. It will be a few weeks before I can get it down there and start mowing.

Regarding the comments about rolling to smooth the ground. I don't know. I've heard that it works and that it's a waste of time. Probably depends on soil, technique, etc. I'm just going to mow and see how it goes. I know that on the property up here it got smoother with time. We're near the AR border and it is hilly and rocky. Pulled out tons of rocks and over a couple of years it slowly smoothed out. My plan is to just give it a go and if it is really bad, look at rolling or whatever if I feel like it is really necessary.

Thanks again to all for your thoughts and suggestions!
Click to expand...
I think that you will be happy with the Grasshopper.
I like the chain hung deck.
Going by their website, it’s equipped with the Kohler Confidant ZT740.
I have that engine on my Gravely and it’s been troubled free. Maintain the air filters as Kohler outlines in the engine manual. Get you some foam air filter oil for the pre-filter. It can be purchased in aerosol cans.


#26

B

Boit4866

hlw49 said:
One thing I will tell you about the Kawasaki engines. They are a good engine. You need to really do as they reccomend and adjust the valves every 350 hours as this is the weakest area of the engine. If they would fix this weak link in the engine they would have the best engine in the industry.
Click to expand...
I agree with Kawasaki engines being tough engines. My 2007 FH580V with nearly 1,200 hours on it is still going strong. Keeping the valves adjusted along with frequent oil/filters has been the key. I would recommend adjusting the valves at the first 30 hour mark, then 100 hours and 200 hours thereafter. I found that the lash was out of range a little at 30 hours due to normal wear-in. After that, my lash only needed a tiny adjustment. This has been my experience.


#27

B

bertsmobile1

13brian said:
It is rough in spots to be sure and is not what I'd call comfortable, everywhere. But I can get it done in two hours. The bouncing is more from the vole structures (some reference them as moles) than leftover horse hoof pits. It can get so bad on the bouncing I will have to come to a complete stop. But, full speed can be more smooth than a slower pace, depends on the area.
So, I would like to have it rolled for that, but it would take a very heavy roller on moist soil and I am not sure how long it would last with the vole mounds and tracks.
Click to expand...
Get it aerated
You should be able to hire the machines for a day
You want the ones that pull a plug out of the grass
These will smooth out rough places
You can do it every second year if you like
Concentrate on the really bad spots

The next question I always ask is why grass ?
There are literally millions of ground covers you can plant that do not need to be mowed and many will annoy the moles , like mustard .
A wild flower meadow looks amazing and requires almost no maintenance .
Let them all go to seed and they renew every year .
Some places will actually pay you to plant local native ground covers


Footer Links 1

Top