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My search skills must be crap, because I can't believe this hasn't been asked before, but I can't find it.

Just watched a video that said that small engines should use high zinc oil. Is this true? That's the first time I've heard that. None of my engine manuals mention zinc. They all say use an oil with rating blah, blah, blah OR HIGHER. The "or higher" part includes modern oils that don't contain zinc.

So... Do I need high zinc oil? If so, what does the braintrust here recommend? I did a little searching, and didn't really find any good options. Most of the hits were racing oil or break-in oil, at $20+ per qt. I have to think that there's something cheaper out there that will work.

Some vintage motorcycles need high zinc oil, and some owners swear by Rotella. Would that be a good oil? 30W Rotella is under $20 a gallon at Wallyworld.

All of the lawnmower formulated oils are high zinc. So Briggs, Kawasaki, Honda, Kohler oils are high zinc, along with the aftermarket oils sold by Stens, and Kinetix oils, The Rotella gas rated oils may not be high zinc but the diesel rated oils are. Are they needed. Not really.

I run Kawasaki K-Tech.
I get it from the local Deere dealer for a little over $5 a qt.

ILENGINE said:

All of the lawnmower formulated oils are high zinc. So Briggs, Kawasaki, Honda, Kohler oils are high zinc, along with the aftermarket oils sold by Stens, and Kinetix oils, The Rotella gas rated oils may not be high zinc but the diesel rated oils are. Are they needed. Not really.

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Thanks

Scrubcadet10 said:

I run Kawasaki K-Tech.
I get it from the local Deere dealer for a little over $5 a qt.

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I knew there had to be something out there for less than $20 per qt.

Thanks

Although zinc is a metal it is also a lubricant. It is good for the valve train. It also good for the hydro's.

Zinc is the "synthetic" of lawnmower motor oil marketing hype.

ZDDP is a consumable lubricant of last resort. When contact pressure pushes through the oil film. When high lift, high speed, strong spring valves use solid tappets on camshaft, ZDDP is needed. Lawn equipment engines are not high lift, high speed, or use very strong valve springs.

All automotive motor oils contain at least 700 ppm of ZDDP. 1500 ppm becomes acidic so the "high zinc" oils are no more than 1200 ppm. This makes a difference if one is driving a 1969 Corvette fast with high lift cams that have not been retrofitted to roller lifter followers, and going more than 1500 miles between oil changes.

3600 RPM is not high speed. Valves one can depress with one's thumb do not have stiff springs.

Very few automobiles on the road have roller lifters. Have stiffer valve springs. Run faster than 3600 RPM. Yet they do just fine without excessive zinc.

Zinc is not the EPA regulated element, is the phosphorous in ZDDP the EPA doesn't like in catalytic converters and on O2 sensors.

Lets see some of those engines which supposedly failed for lack of zinc.

Actually zinc has been reduced in the new auto engine oils for EPA reasons but it should be used about 1200 if you can get it. You can always just change your oil sooner if you are concerned about loosing the TBN in you oils

So zinc is mostly needed for the cam lobes & followers
It does 5/8 of SFA anywhere else in a mower engine
IT is not needed because the scuffing forces on mower lobes is quite low
Try compressing a car engine valve spring with your fingers then try your mower .

Scrubcadet10 said:

I run Kawasaki K-Tech.
I get it from the local Deere dealer for a little over $5 a qt.

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If you can buy oil for $5/quart then you are getting a great deal. I am buying oil in 5 gallon buckets for $5/quart and buying 4 buckets at a time.

Shell Rotella 15-40 T-4 is JASO rated, & can be found by the gallon for cheap.

GrumpyCat said:

Zinc is the "synthetic" of lawnmower motor oil marketing hype.

ZDDP is a consumable lubricant of last resort. When contact pressure pushes through the oil film. When high lift, high speed, strong spring valves use solid tappets on camshaft, ZDDP is needed. Lawn equipment engines are not high lift, high speed, or use very strong valve springs.

All automotive motor oils contain at least 700 ppm of ZDDP. 1500 ppm becomes acidic so the "high zinc" oils are no more than 1200 ppm. This makes a difference if one is driving a 1969 Corvette fast with high lift cams that have not been retrofitted to roller lifter followers, and going more than 1500 miles between oil changes.

3600 RPM is not high speed. Valves one can depress with one's thumb do not have stiff springs.

Very few automobiles on the road have roller lifters. Have stiffer valve springs. Run faster than 3600 RPM. Yet they do just fine without excessive zinc.

Zinc is not the EPA regulated element, is the phosphorous in ZDDP the EPA doesn't like in catalytic converters and on O2 sensors.

Lets see some of those engines which supposedly failed for lack of zinc.

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Good post!

HOWEVER ( ), you said: "Very few automobiles on the road have roller lifters. Have stiffer valve springs. Run faster than 3600 RPM."

I believe you probably didn't say what you meant to say there - that you would agree that most passenger vehicles built in the last 2 or 3 decades (and therefore most cars on the road today) have roller cam followers and all run faster than 3600 rpm. I feel sure we'd agree that production car engine valve springs are a good bit stiffer than those in most lawnmower engines (recognizing of course that "stiff" is a relative term, and that there's "standard production engine" stiff, and then there's much stiffer "competition/high perf" stiff).

A shorter (but maybe too direct) version of my post could be:
I disagree with "Very few automobiles on the road have roller lifters. Have stiffer valve springs. Run faster than 3600 RPM." Overwhelmingly most (all or almost all?) IC car engines on the road today have roller cam followers, stiffer (than lawnmower) valve springs, and run faster than 3600 rpm.

Cheers!

This oil works just fine.

Millions of small engines have been run on about every oil out there. How many have worn the cam and lifters because of oil failure? Some engine have plastic lobe cams that are fairly soft and they don't wear with regular oils and no filter. Small engines have slow ramp speeds as compared to car engines. The biggest reason for flat tappet cam wear is the high spring pressure and high cam ramp speeds. Neither if which mower engines have.

I've been running Mobil 1 synthetic 10w30 in my Kohler 27hp that's in a Grasshopper for years and had no problem.
I use this oil because I have it around for a vehicle I have.
Should I not use this?

edporch said:

I've been running Mobil 1 synthetic 10w30 in my Kohler 27hp that's in a Grasshopper for years and had no problem.
I use this oil because I have it around for a vehicle I have.
Should I not use this?

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I have found that for the most part small engines are not picky about their oil used. So anything that normally would be used in an ICE will work fine in a lawnmower engine. Hydraulic lifters tend to require a thinner oil than solid lifter engines temperature pending. Hydrostat transmission and tractor hydraulic systems that use a common hydraulic, wet brake, transmission all use compatible oils.

I would say the only variance ive found with engine oil, SOME kohler commands i service develop lifter tick if i don't use the Kohler Branded semi synthetic oil.

Scrubcadet10 said:

I would say the only variance ive found with engine oil, SOME kohler commands i service develop lifter tick if i don't use the Kohler Branded semi synthetic oil.

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Any oil is better than no oil. Jus' sayin'.

marinusdees said:

Any oil is better than no oil. Jus' sayin'.

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Not if you run Slick50. Anybody remember the rigged commercials for it?

Peva said:

Good post!

HOWEVER ( ), you said: "Very few automobiles on the road have roller lifters. Have stiffer valve springs. Run faster than 3600 RPM."

I believe you probably didn't say what you meant to say there - that you would agree that most passenger vehicles built in the last 2 or 3 decades (and therefore most cars on the road today) have roller cam followers and all run faster than 3600 rpm. I feel sure we'd agree that production car engine valve springs are a good bit stiffer than those in most lawnmower engines (recognizing of course that "stiff" is a relative term, and that there's "standard production engine" stiff, and then there's much stiffer "competition/high perf" stiff).

A shorter (but maybe too direct) version of my post could be:
I disagree with "Very few automobiles on the road have roller lifters. Have stiffer valve springs. Run faster than 3600 RPM." Overwhelmingly most (all or almost all?) IC car engines on the road today have roller cam followers, stiffer (than lawnmower) valve springs, and run faster than 3600 rpm.

Cheers!

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I am saying very few automobiles have roller lifters. My 2018 F-150 2.7 Ecoboost (twin turbo) does not. My 2016 9000 RPM Yamaha FJR1300 does not. My 2007 Prius did not. The valve springs are much stiffer than any power equipment engine I have seen. And while the Yamaha does over 4000 RPM quite regularly the F-150 rarely goes that high but will when pressed. The Yamaha has 85,000 miles, no valve adjustment, but I've checked. The Prius would rev to 4000 in certain situations.

One source claims the EPA phosphorous limit (which limits ZDDP, which is where zinc is found) only applies to 30 weight and lower motor oils. That 10W-40 or 15W-50 is only limited to 1200 PPM beyond which the phosphorous turns acidic.

Am also saying if power equipment engines really needed "zinc" to protect camshafts and tappet lifters, then the manufacturers are negligent in not using roller lifters.

Hammermechanicman said:

Not if you run Slick50. Anybody remember the rigged commercials for it?

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I remember Dupont suing over the use of their trademark Teflon™ while not purchasing from Dupont. Dupont refused to sell Teflon™ to Slick50 because Dupont engineers believed it hurt more than helped. Teflon™ breaks down in the combustion chamber. One of the components is HF, hydrofluoric acid, which is pretty strong stuff.

GrumpyCat said:

I am saying very few automobiles have roller lifters. My 2018 F-150 2.7 Ecoboost (twin turbo) does not. My 2016 9000 RPM Yamaha FJR1300 does not. My 2007 Prius did not. The valve springs are much stiffer than any power equipment engine I have seen. And while the Yamaha does over 4000 RPM quite regularly the F-150 rarely goes that high but will when pressed. The Yamaha has 85,000 miles, no valve adjustment, but I've checked. The Prius would rev to 4000 in certain situations.

One source claims the EPA phosphorous limit (which limits ZDDP, which is where zinc is found) only applies to 30 weight and lower motor oils. That 10W-40 or 15W-50 is only limited to 1200 PPM beyond which the phosphorous turns acidic.

Am also saying if power equipment engines really needed "zinc" to protect camshafts and tappet lifters, then the manufacturers are negligent in not using roller lifters.

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Yamaha FJR 1300, great bike!
I have a 2008 FJR I bought new in 2008.

GrumpyCat said:

I remember Dupont suing over the use of their trademark Teflon™ while not purchasing from Dupont. Dupont refused to sell Teflon™ to Slick50 because Dupont engineers believed it hurt more than helped. Teflon™ breaks down in the combustion chamber. One of the components is HF, hydrofluoric acid, which is pretty strong stuff.

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Yeah.
A let us not forget the STP commercials of Mario and a screwdriver.
STP. Snakeoil Turns Profits

We 'muricans just love to pour some magic juice into our engine. To bad the oil company PHD chemists aren't that smart to come up with magic juice.

When people say high zinc, that's a shortcut for saying high ZDDP (Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate).

As I understand it:
- ZDDP raises the thermal conductivity of the oil allowing it to carry more heat. This is more important for aircooled engines because the oil is the coolant that carries the heat to help it get out to the cooling fins.
- ZDDP creates a film on metal parts that helps them slide against each other with reduced wear.
- ZDDP also creates a film on the platinum in catalytic converters which causes them to prematurely fail.
- Lawnmower engines don't have catalytic converters, so high zddp causes no problems.

Around 2010 automotive oils were mandated to have zinc reduced to 800ppm. Prior to that 1500ppm was normal. Air cooled engine oil is essentially what normal automotive oil used to be. If oil has an API rating beyond SL then the zinc has been reduced.

Putting automotive oil in your aircooled engine is much better than low oil or no oil, and I don't think anyone is saying your aircooled engine will blow up if you use automotive oil. But aircooled engine oil should allow it to run cooler with less wear and have a longer life.

Kawasaki offers a broad range of viscosities in their K-Tech high zinc engine oils, including a fully synthetic 15w50.

I have a wide variety of "yard" equipment and have grown tired of having a certain oil for each piece. I now run Mobil 1 10w-30 synthetic in everything including the snowblower. I can buy it online at Costco.com for a little over $33 for a 6 qt case when they offer a $10 off coupon and free shipping. Otherwise it's $43/case without the coupon. Been watching and listening to each engine as I use it and all are happy. I have a 23hp Kawasaki in a zero turn mower, 3 Honda engines in my snowblower, chipper, and pressure washer; and, a another Honda 2000 generator. Just one type for all makes it easy and I run Mobil 1 in our vehicles too.

Still waiting for the "I put XYZ oil in my mower and the dang thing blew up" thread

GrumpyCat said:

Am also saying if power equipment engines really needed "zinc" to protect camshafts and tappet lifters, then the manufacturers are negligent in not using roller lifters.

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Well... Briggs DOES say that, to keep your warranty valid, you must use their oil, which has high zinc content.

My Husqvarna parts department said that Kawasaki recommends (in 2023) their 10W-30 synthetic blend that has zinc for the FR series V-twin in my YT42LS tractor. I believe that it was less than $5 per quart when I bought it at the dealer in 2023.

Still looking for the Kohler dealer that recommends Kawasaki oil and the Briggs dealer that recommends Honda oil.

DinosaurMike said:

My Husqvarna parts department said that Kawasaki recommends (in 2023) their 10W-30 synthetic blend that has zinc for the FR series V-twin in my YT42LS tractor. I believe that it was less than $5 per quart when I bought it at the dealer in 2023.

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I'm down in deep South so my Dealer recommends 20-50 semi K-Tech..

7394 said:

I'm down in deep South so my Dealer recommends 20-50 semi K-Tech..

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For the 10,000th time
It is a f###ing mower not the space shuttle or a NASCAR top fueller or a Paris-Dakar dirt bike
The zinc content will make absolutely no difference

7394 said:

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Four pages and still going,
We are talking about mowing,
The tried and tested oil debate,
Ain’t opinions and free speech great!

My oil is better than your oil but not as good as scrub's.

Yea sure, bet you say that on ALL the oil threads... LOL

GearHead36 said:

Well... Briggs DOES say that, to keep your warranty valid, you must use their oil, which has high zinc content.

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(c)Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if— ...

Then tell B&S they owe you free oil for the duration of the warranty. Per above US code.

BudTugley said:

When people say high zinc, that's a shortcut for saying high ZDDP (Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate).

As I understand it:
- ZDDP raises the thermal conductivity of the oil allowing it to carry more heat. This is more important for aircooled engines because the oil is the coolant that carries the heat to help it get out to the cooling fins.

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"Thermal conductivity" is not the same thing as "carrying more heat". In general the more one carries in suspension in a fluid the lower the freezing point. That doesn't help motor oil.

I seriously doubt the specific heat (the property of "carrying" heat) is significantly changed from 700 to 1200 PPM ZDDP.

BudTugley said:

- ZDDP creates a film on metal parts that helps them slide against each other with reduced wear.

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Such a film is consumable. That means zinc gets crushed when metal parts push through the oil layer. This is why I say a design is defective if it requires zinc to protect cam lobes and lifters.

BudTugley said:

- ZDDP also creates a film on the platinum in catalytic converters which causes them to prematurely fail.

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The phosphorus of ZDDP is the problem, not the zinc.

BudTugley said:

- Lawnmower engines don't have catalytic converters, so high zddp causes no problems.

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Lawn mowers have soft valve springs and low lift cams.

Saw a YouTube video this week were Taryl Dactal thought an engine had a bad compression release. Removed the cam assembly. I didn't know some small engine camshafts were plastic. Ultimately the problem was not the compression release but stuck rings.

BudTugley said:

Around 2010 automotive oils were mandated to have zinc reduced to 800ppm. Prior to that 1500ppm was normal.

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1200 was the limit beyond which acidity becomes a problem.
And only some oils contained more than 800 ppm.

BudTugley said:

Air cooled engine oil is essentially what normal automotive oil used to be. If oil has an API rating beyond SL then the zinc has been reduced.

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There was no requirement for ZDDP so there is no assurance ZDDP has been reduced because there is no assurance it was over the limit.

BudTugley said:

Putting automotive oil in your aircooled engine is much better than low oil or no oil, and I don't think anyone is saying your aircooled engine will blow up if you use automotive oil. But aircooled engine oil should allow it to run cooler with less wear and have a longer life.

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My Kawasaki FR-541V-600V manual states, "API Service Classification : SJ or higher class." Neither "zinc" nor "zddp" appear anywhere in the PDF. No "API SJ to SL" or anything like it.

Wow. This is getting to he a very technical discussion.
Who knew small engines required such high tech oils.

Hardluck said:

Wow. This is getting to he a very technical discussion.
Who knew small engines required such high tech oils.

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You know those people that build rockets for NASA? They argue about oil on here too

Hammermechanicman said:

My oil is better than your oil but not as good as scrub's.

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my oil is

Rock on Scrub !