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battery worthless

#1

J

jcworks

Two questions. (1) 2013 Toro Timecutter. 23 hp Kawasaki. I bought a battery Feb 2023 and was told by the sales people 3-6 mo warranty is all they'll offer now. So, I bought one at Lowes with a 6 mo warranty, the best I could find. I went out to crank it today. Dead. I tried 8 amp and 12 amp but charger kicked out when the red check light came on. 2 amp wouldn't work either. I paid about $60 for that little battery and now its worthless. Anybody got any idea where I can get a good one? (2) Can I jump start this mower off my truck battery?


#2

R

Rivets

Are you sure it is not a Kawasaki engine, not Yamaha? Please post model and serial numbers for both unit and engine.


#3

J

jcworks

Are you sure it is not a Kawasaki engine, not Yamaha? Please post model and serial numbers for both unit and engine.
Rivets, my mistake, yes I meant Kawasaki. Model FR691V engine. Mower model 74641

I put the Schumacher battery charger (2, 8, 12amp) on it and voltage runs up to about 4v, the Charge (red) light comes on and then off. Then the Charge light comes on briefly again and then off again and it quits trying to charge the battery. I even tried disconnecting the cables on the battery and charging it that way. Same result.


#4

R

Rivets

Sounds to me like both those batteries are junk. If it can to me I would be installing an Interstate battery SP-35. Should be priced about $65.00.


#5

J

jcworks

R
Sounds to me like both those batteries are junk. If it can to me I would be installing an Interstate battery SP-35. Should be priced about $65.00.
Rivets, I'm no electronic whiz but I know the basics for a battery. I agree, the battery is probably shot. Eight months, can you believe it? Junk. Any time I pushed the charge button on the charger it immediately flashes one time red Check light then the charge rate goes to 2amp. The red Check light flashes again, then again, and then the charger quits charging altogether. I assume its telling me this battery is done. I'll check out the Interstate one. Thanks. I just didnt want to buy one in the dead of winter and waste 4 months of warranty.


#6

StarTech

StarTech

What is the Schumacher model so I check the owners manual?


#7

J

jcworks

What is the Schumacher model so I check the owners manual?
StarTech, its model WM-1200A


#8

R

Rivets

Any good repair shop or auto parts store should be about to load check the battery for you. Do this first before purchasing new.


#9

J

jcworks

What is the Schumacher model so I check the owners manual?
StarTech, its model WM-1200A
Any good repair shop or auto parts store should be about to load check the battery for you. Do this first before purchasing new.
Any good repair shop or auto parts store should be about to load check the battery for you. Do this first before purchasing new.
Yessir, I'll do that first. The charger is showing only 5.4 v. I can't get it above that because the charger keeps cutting itself off from charging after that red Check light blinks 2 or 3 times. I suppose thats a safety mechanism.


#10

StarTech

StarTech

According to the manual there is three lights. If the charging light is the one that is flashing the charger has gone into a desulfation mode. If it is the check light is flashing then the battery has had it.


#11

J

jcworks

According to the manual there is three lights. If the charging light is the one that is flashing the charger has gone into a desulfation mode. If it is the check light is flashing then the battery has had it.
Thanks Star. Yeah its the red "Check" light. So, its done for. No choice but bite the bullet and buy another one. I'll have this one tested at auto parts before I do though. It stinks that you can't get a lawn mower battery with a longer warranty than 6 months, not even an Interstate. They're probably all made in communist China. Ask me if I'm aggravated.


#12

StarTech

StarTech

I know even Battery Plus here has dropped to a six month warranty. Lots of things are a lot crappier than they were before the Covid pandemic.


#13

J

jcworks

I know even Battery Plus here has dropped to a six month warranty. Lots of things are a lot crappier than they were before the Covid pandemic.
No idea why but the charger is showing 6.2 v now. If I'm not mistaken this charger turns itself on periodically at 2 amps. Perhaps by tomorrow it will show more volts. Who knows. Anyway, I checked around, Interstate is 6 mo warranty with full replacement - that part's good. And Ace Hardware carries Deka, one is 6mo. warranty, and for $10 more you get one with a 1 yr warranty. If its still crap by tomorrow I'll just get that one.


#14

B

bertsmobile1

Once again the US government sells the population down the toilet
All Australian batteries come with a government mandated 12 month replacement warranty
Most then will add a further 1 to 3 years of pro-rata warranty.
Mower batteries should have thicker plates with 2 connections per plate to support it properly.
Car battery plates are held to the battery by a single tab on one corner because cars have suspension & smoother multi cylinder engine .
Down here Toro fitted spiral cell batteries which are mechanically the strongest , they are also the most expensive .
So if you want a good battery that will last as long as your mower does then find a spiral battery to fit in the space


#15

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

Once again the US government sells the population down the toilet
All Australian batteries come with a government mandated 12 month replacement warranty
Most then will add a further 1 to 3 years of pro-rata warranty.
Mower batteries should have thicker plates with 2 connections per plate to support it properly.
Car battery plates are held to the battery by a single tab on one corner because cars have suspension & smoother multi cylinder engine .
Down here Toro fitted spiral cell batteries which are mechanically the strongest , they are also the most expensive .
So if you want a good battery that will last as long as your mower does then find a spiral battery to fit in the space
Buy a battery with a minimum of 250 CCA (cold cranking amps).

New chargers will not recognize and begin charging batteries that are below 12 volts. Unless you have a charger like a Noco that will charge from one volt up. Use a multimeter and see how many volts you have. 12.75 is a fully charged battery. Obviously this doesn’t put a load on battery.

Use a 2 amp trickle charger once a month to charge battery, whether using equipment or not. Should get 4-5 years out of battery if maintained correctly.

Batteries today, lead acid, AGM, or lithium are very good and priced fairly for what they do. If you don’t keep them charged and kill them a few times, it will severely shorten or end their life.


#16

J

jcworks

Once again the US government sells the population down the toilet
All Australian batteries come with a government mandated 12 month replacement warranty
Most then will add a further 1 to 3 years of pro-rata warranty.
Mower batteries should have thicker plates with 2 connections per plate to support it properly.
Car battery plates are held to the battery by a single tab on one corner because cars have suspension & smoother multi cylinder engine .
Down here Toro fitted spiral cell batteries which are mechanically the strongest , they are also the most expensive .
So if you want a good battery that will last as long as your mower does then find a spiral battery to fit in the space
Buy a battery with a minimum of 250 CCA (cold cranking amps).

New chargers will not recognize and begin charging batteries that are below 12 volts. Unless you have a charger like a Noco that will charge from one volt up. Use a multimeter and see how many volts you have. 12.75 is a fully charged battery. Obviously this doesn’t put a load on battery.

Use a 2 amp trickle charger once a month to charge battery, whether using equipment or not. Should get 4-5 years out of battery if maintained correctly.

Batteries today, lead acid, AGM, or lithium are very good and priced fairly for what they do. If you don’t keep them charged and kill them a few times, it will severely shorten or end their life.
Tiger, I thought I'd been keeping it charged, or so I thought. Maybe the cold snaps 24F knocked it down. I left it on overnight, even though it showed to be not charging at all, and its back up now. 12.6v. I think maybe that charger kicks on a little bit when a battery is down so low, and then kicks off and when it does kick on its at 2amp. Overnight, I guess it did that enough that its up and going now.

Bert, don't get me started on our federal government here. lol. They are the cause of so many problems here in the US. The congress created hundreds, yes hundreds of federal agencies over the decades to "regulate" this or that. They make up their own rules, too often by radicals that gravitate in to positions of authority, which is why they applied for or were appointed to those positions. They pass their "rules" and in effect become law even though congress never passed a law, thereby the politicians can wipe their hands clean of it all. Some of its probably good; a lot is not good for the average citizen. I've been through that myself many years ago with the EPA "rules".


#17

J

jcworks

UPDATE: I left the battery on trickle charge (2amp) all night. Yesterday when I first started this it registered 1 v on the charger. It finally got up to 4v and then 6v. But the charger kept kicking off. So, last night I just left the charger connected even though it was not showing to be charging. This morning its up to full charge and turning the motor over. Apparently these cold snaps down to 24F depleted the battery. From here on I'll just keep it on trickle when not in use. So, all is good I hope. Thanks for all your inputs, I appreciate that.


#18

B

bertsmobile1

A battery is a chemical reaction
All chemical reactions either generate or consume heat
So all of them have an ideal temperature range

making this worse is electrons have to travel through the paste material
Traveling around the surface of the grains of Pb in the paste shows up as voltage.
Traveling through the grains is storage capacity which isa solid state diffusing process and directly linked to temperature .

A lot of EV makers have just been hauled over the coals because their battery range was based on ideal battery temperature , not the actual running temperature .
finally smart chargers are actually very dumb
Back in the day, a dead flat battery would be hooked up to a manual charger , set to 18-24 volts @ 0.5 amps for am hour or so
Then you would check it .
If you gat 11V or better then you would lower the voltage to 14 V ( 13.5 if it was a really good charger ) @ whatever the charge rate was for that battery ( depends upon total plate surface area + battery chemistry ) and you would check it in a couple of hours adding demineralised water ( usually rain water ) as needed .
s
smart chargers are supposed to do this automatically but most can not so to them a bead flat battery appears as a fully charged battery so they refuse to charge them unless they have a manual "flat battery" setting .


#19

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

A battery is a chemical reaction
All chemical reactions either generate or consume heat
So all of them have an ideal temperature range

making this worse is electrons have to travel through the paste material
Traveling around the surface of the grains of Pb in the paste shows up as voltage.
Traveling through the grains is storage capacity which isa solid state diffusing process and directly linked to temperature .

A lot of EV makers have just been hauled over the coals because their battery range was based on ideal battery temperature , not the actual running temperature .
finally smart chargers are actually very dumb
Back in the day, a dead flat battery would be hooked up to a manual charger , set to 18-24 volts @ 0.5 amps for am hour or so
Then you would check it .
If you gat 11V or better then you would lower the voltage to 14 V ( 13.5 if it was a really good charger ) @ whatever the charge rate was for that battery ( depends upon total plate surface area + battery chemistry ) and you would check it in a couple of hours adding demineralised water ( usually rain water ) as needed .
s
smart chargers are supposed to do this automatically but most can not so to them a bead flat battery appears as a fully charged battery so they refuse to charge them unless they have a manual "flat battery" setting .


Exactly. So how you were able to charge a battery below 12 volts, much less 1volt, without a charger such as a Noco that has that capability, is beyond me, and doesn’t make sense.


#20

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

There is a reason I keep my old dumb chargers around.


#21

R

Rivets

On a twin cylinder engine I always go with a battery which has a minimum of 375 CCA. Just looked up you unit and it is a twin, so I should have recommended using a SP-40 battery, not SP-35. I’m bad.


#22

J

jcworks

Exactly. So how you were able to charge a battery below 12 volts, much less 1volt, without a charger such as a Noco that has that capability, is beyond me, and doesn’t make sense.
Tiger, I don't know. Don't have a clue. I just know that when I found it dead I hooked up the Schumacher WM-1200 charger I've had for years. It started the sequence I outlined above. Start charging...then the light flashed one time , then it would try again, same thing. Third time same thing, and the the amp light (2, 8, 12) would cut off. I went through this several times, each time the voltage showing a little bit higher eventually up to around 6. At one time I saw it try to charge again on its on without me re-trying it (maybe its got a timer to do just that, no idea on that though). So I just left it hooked up and left it alone all night, I didn't think it could do any harm since it was in my mind "dead", done for. Next morning it was at 90% charged. Came back later in the morning ....100%. So I tried to crank it and the motor turned over. I didn't let it start. I've since just left it on 2amp. Last I looked it was still 100%. So to speak to your concern..I don't know. I'm no electrical whiz. I just know it showed 1v to begin with and eventually over many hours got up to 12-13v.


#23

StarTech

StarTech

Yes those chip controlled unit like go flakey at times. The smart charger here that does both 6v an 12v will only change a fully depleted 12v battery to 6v. I use the solar to recover those batteries even though the 50 yr old charger works fine too.


#24

G

gregboggess

Two questions. (1) 2013 Toro Timecutter. 23 hp Kawasaki. I bought a battery Feb 2023 and was told by the sales people 3-6 mo warranty is all they'll offer now. So, I bought one at Lowes with a 6 mo warranty, the best I could find. I went out to crank it today. Dead. I tried 8 amp and 12 amp but charger kicked out when the red check light came on. 2 amp wouldn't work either. I paid about $60 for that little battery and now its worthless. Anybody got any idea where I can get a good one? (2) Can I jump start this mower off my truck battery?


#25

G

gregboggess

Two questions. (1) 2013 Toro Timecutter. 23 hp Kawasaki. I bought a battery Feb 2023 and was told by the sales people 3-6 mo warranty is all they'll offer now. So, I bought one at Lowes with a 6 mo warranty, the best I could find. I went out to crank it today. Dead. I tried 8 amp and 12 amp but charger kicked out when the red check light came on. 2 amp wouldn't work either. I paid about $60 for that little battery and now its worthless. Anybody got any idea where I can get a good one? (2) Can I jump start this mower off my truck battery?


#26

K

kinard

Two questions. (1) 2013 Toro Timecutter. 23 hp Kawasaki. I bought a battery Feb 2023 and was told by the sales people 3-6 mo warranty is all they'll offer now. So, I bought one at Lowes with a 6 mo warranty, the best I could find. I went out to crank it today. Dead. I tried 8 amp and 12 amp but charger kicked out when the red check light came on. 2 amp wouldn't work either. I paid about $60 for that little battery and now its worthless. Anybody got any idea where I can get a good one? (2) Can I jump start this mower off my truck battery?


#27

B

Bigyard

Two questions. (1) 2013 Toro Timecutter. 23 hp Kawasaki. I bought a battery Feb 2023 and was told by the sales people 3-6 mo warranty is all they'll offer now. So, I bought one at Lowes with a 6 mo warranty, the best I could find. I went out to crank it today. Dead. I tried 8 amp and 12 amp but charger kicked out when the red check light came on. 2 amp wouldn't work either. I paid about $60 for that little battery and now its worthless. Anybody got any idea where I can get a good one? (2) Can I jump start this mower off my truck battery?
Look on the battery and see when it was manufactured.
A lot of stores have old stock and don't keep them charged up.
Are you sure it was not rebuilt?


#28

S

SHB

Some chargers need to see a minimum voltage across the terminals to turn on, this is to protect the charger in case the leads are shorted. Thus they won’t turn on and charge if the battery is totally dead. I trick the circuit by connecting the charger to the dead battery, then momentarily jump another battery in parallel with one I am trying to charge. This gets the charger started, generally the current from the charger is enough to raise the battery voltage to the point where it stays on.


#29

E

eagle86801

Two questions. (1) 2013 Toro Timecutter. 23 hp Kawasaki. I bought a battery Feb 2023 and was told by the sales people 3-6 mo warranty is all they'll offer now. So, I bought one at Lowes with a 6 mo warranty, the best I could find. I went out to crank it today. Dead. I tried 8 amp and 12 amp but charger kicked out when the red check light came on. 2 amp wouldn't work either. I paid about $60 for that little battery and now its worthless. Anybody got any idea where I can get a good one? (2) Can I jump start this mower off my truck battery?
I bought Die Hard at Advanced Auto Supply for $66. tax included in 10/7/2022 3 month replacement . Its still cranking fine . I put a solar trickle charge on it all winter but I do start the mower at least once a month . Last Die Hard lasted me 5 years . Good luck


#30

J

jimvw57

New 'smart' chargers are a waste of money, they claim almost every battery is junk. (although most new batteries are junk) get one of those big tall chargers that are on wheels that the service stations use and it will charge anything. I had to buy a new battery for my Husqvarna zero turn this fall, and now it will be sitting for months during the winter. I plugged it into a Battery Tender so I hope it survives the winter, also it is disconnected and in the basement. Didn't find any batteries with a warranty of more than 6 months, most were 3 months, so I got one oversize and now need to modify the hold down bracket.


#31

R

rabbittracks

Two questions. (1) 2013 Toro Timecutter. 23 hp Kawasaki. I bought a battery Feb 2023 and was told by the sales people 3-6 mo warranty is all they'll offer now. So, I bought one at Lowes with a 6 mo warranty, the best I could find. I went out to crank it today. Dead. I tried 8 amp and 12 amp but charger kicked out when the red check light came on. 2 amp wouldn't work either. I paid about $60 for that little battery and now its worthless. Anybody got any idea where I can get a good one? (2) Can I jump start this mower off my truck battery?


#32

L

LawnWizard

Two questions. (1) 2013 Toro Timecutter. 23 hp Kawasaki. I bought a battery Feb 2023 and was told by the sales people 3-6 mo warranty is all they'll offer now. So, I bought one at Lowes with a 6 mo warranty, the best I could find. I went out to crank it today. Dead. I tried 8 amp and 12 amp but charger kicked out when the red check light came on. 2 amp wouldn't work either. I paid about $60 for that little battery and now its worthless. Anybody got any idea where I can get a good one? (2) Can I jump start this mower off my truck battery?
It is likely not the battery. If you have not used it since purchasing the battery then you have a draw running in dead. More likely tho is that you used it for a short time and it was not charging. Get it running and check voltage at the battery. Should have about 13.0 to 14.0 depending on how dead the battery is. Check and report back, I or someone else will help from there. And yes, you can jump it from another 12V battery.


#33

J

jimvw57

I tried a jump box on my mower and it wouldn't start. it would crank, but not fire. A new battery did the trick. I did not try any of my vehicles. I have used the jump box on cars and they would fire up.


#34

Reverett

Reverett

I've always had problems with batteries from HD, Lowes or discount auto parts stores. I get mine from NAPA or Interstate. I get 3 years out of them .


#35

B

barny57

On a twin cylinder engine I always go with a battery which has a minimum of 375 CCA. Just looked up you unit and it is a twin, so I should have recommended using a SP-40 battery, not SP-35. I’m bad.
Don’t buy a battery for the warranty if you do take it back they prorate them anyway go to Menards and buy one for 35 bucks


#36

R

Rivets

I’ve been personally using and installing Interstate batteries for the last ten years and have yet to see one that has failed before three years.


#37

J

jcworks

It is likely not the battery. If you have not used it since purchasing the battery then you have a draw running in dead. More likely tho is that you used it for a short time and it was not charging. Get it running and check voltage at the battery. Should have about 13.0 to 14.0 depending on how dead the battery is. Check and report back, I or someone else will help from there. And yes, you can jump it from another 12V battery.
LawnWizard, you are right it was NOT the battery. I finally left it on all night. It would click on and charge for a little bit and then cut off because , I assume, the battery was down way way too low. The next morning it was at around 90% charged according to the meter on the charger. I left it till later when it was 100%. It would then turn the motor over so the battery was good. I don't know why it had gotten so low because the last i used it was early November. Anyway, it would not start and I dont know why. But I had a can of starting fluid. I sprayed a squirt in the air intake and it cranked immediately. I finished up my leaf mulching. I'm keeping it on trickle now all the time. From now on I'll crank it ever 30 days or so.


#38

J

jcworks

I've always had problems with batteries from HD, Lowes or discount auto parts stores. I get mine from NAPA or Interstate. I get 3 years out of them .
Thanks Reverett, I'll remember that. I have NAPA close to me.


#39

J

jcworks

I’ve been personally using and installing Interstate batteries for the last ten years and have yet to see one that has failed before three years.
Yeah they are the first ones I called about. 6 month warranty is all they'll do on a lawnmower battery.


#40

J

jcworks

Don’t buy a battery for the warranty if you do take it back they prorate them anyway go to Menards and buy one for 35 bucks
My battery is working now. I have no idea where Menard's is. Is that an online outlet? You are right about the pro rating.


#41

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

I’ve been personally using and installing Interstate batteries for the last ten years and have yet to see one that has failed before three years.
No issues here with interstate either. they're reasonably priced as well... i was getting Continental batteries through my employed occupation for awhile for $35 bucks... they sucked. i had several people get only two years out of a continental, and thats with a battery tender in the winter months....Like you, no problems with interstate thus far.


#42

Reverett

Reverett

Yeah they are the first ones I called about. 6 month warranty is all they'll do on a lawnmower battery.
As others have said don't buy a battery because of the warranty. NAPA and Interstate will be more expensive but it's like buying 3 of the cheap ones to 1 of these. And I'm not aware of any battery dealer that warrants a mower battery longer than 6 months.


#43

M

mcspeed

Manufacturers don’t offer longer warrantees on these small batteries because they are very critical of maintenance. Longer periods of no use, parasitic draw etc all contribute to a short battery life.

Get the govt involved and force a 1 yr warranty and your $65 battery will be $85 or more. You will be funding the battery ignorance program. Don’t educate the people just charge them to be stupid?

Just take care of the battery and it will last 3+ years easily.


#44

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I have worked on lots of John deere mowers with batteries 8 and even 10 years old. They do cost more but they last longer than most other batteries.


#45

F

FarmGeezer

Get a battery tender and use it! The tender will keep a battery charged up and will switch to storage mode when the battery is charged...It will not however charge a dead battery. I have a 3 yr. old Federated battery that is still strong because I use a Battery Tender. Just a thought...


#46

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I use 10 battery tenders on stuff in the barn every year. Beats buying $100 deep cycle batteries every year.


#47

J

jcworks

Get a battery tender and use it! The tender will keep a battery charged up and will switch to storage mode when the battery is charged...It will not however charge a dead battery. I have a 3 yr. old Federated battery that is still strong because I use a Battery Tender. Just a thought...
Thanks Geezer. After I posted this I realized the charger I have goes into a maintenance mode (I think) once its fully charged. I'm pretty sure it goes into the 2 amp mode and kicks on and off as needed, so that works like a tender. I just leave it on the battery all the time now.


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