Export thread

I have a Simplicity Conquest lawn tractor. If it sits for 3 weeks the battery dies. If I use it to cut the grass, usually once a week, it dies after 2-3 cuts. I disconnected the negative ( black) cable from the battery and then connected the red tester lead from my multimeter to the black cable and the black tester lead to the negative side of the battery. I get a reading of 11.32 volts. Somewhere it is draining the battery. Not sure what is going on. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Post Simplicity Conquest model number. Check all connections by hand making sure they are tight & secure including ground straps & cables from engine to chassis.

Seven digit model number. Also post B&S engine numbers model xxxxxx, type xxxx, trim xx & code number.

Model # TR/MWR-Conqst 23H SMI 50" Vang PS Dom 07

Has battery been load tested? How much is the drain with the multimeter? If you have no idea what I mean then Google battery drain testing for a YouTube video.

The most common phantom load on a mower battery comes from a rectifier with a dud diode allowing power to go backwards through the stator when the engine is not spinning.
Just about everything else passes through the ignition switch which is the No2 suspect.

It sounds like you tried to perform a current drain test , but perhaps did not set up your multimeter correctly. The "series" connection you described is proper approach for current, but the multimeter leads must be in the proper sockets. Look at your little booklet which came with the unit. Usually you move the red lead to a current socket. I think you got a voltage measurement , +12 to ground.

Simplicity model # 2690600. B&S #' s model 386777, type 0111-E1, code 06122111. I will get the battery load tested this week. On my multimeter I only have 2 slots for the red and black probes. I tried doing the test I talked about in an earlier post, but using the 40 A setting. But I am not getting any reading. Do I need another multi tester that reads lower amps ? One that reads in m (milli)? Please be patient, electricity is not my strong point. Thanks

Juice, Yes, the battery drain test usually expects the multimeter to read millivolts with the ignition and lights turned off indicating the current passing from the battery to ground. Forum members can respond on this, but I would not expect to see more than 50 milliamps which is probably excessive and will drain your battery in short order (e.g. a week, sooner if more drain). Be patient while learning electronic measurements . They are not difficult. 50 milliamps can be written .050 Amps. Moving the decimal point to 050. allows you to call it :milli." The next smaller name for very little current is "micro," (one millionth of an amp), but you will not need to worry about that measurement as the milli range is usually sufficient. The significance of milliamps flowing with everthing off is that it shouldn't with the ignition turned off , so something is wrong like a bad switch that won't turn off, a wire with voltage on it that is touching ground (chafed) or perhaps a diode in the charging system that is not blocking current like it should ( help here dealers and others)'

You can spend $hundreds on a multimeter, but there should be one out there for $25-$35 that will have hard (click) settings for small current readings and have a little instruction book to show how to set up the test leads. I have seen good reviews on some of the H Frt units, but do not own one. Some of these units even have temperature probes which can be handy with our AC barbecue engines.

Thanks motorman. I was able to borrow a really good multimeter from work today. So I did my test using the milliamps. (My multimeter did not go that low) I was getting a reading of 3.45 amps. I disconnected the dashboard display which reads total running hours, pto hours ect. When I disconnected and did the test again I got a reading of 0.02. I believe this is the problem. Going to order a new display and see how it works. Thanks so much for everyone's help. Much appreciated.

Well 20 milliamps sounds reasonable, but the 3+ amps is troublesome as (big guess here) the whole dash display would not seem to demand that much current. For instance a radiator fan draws 3 amps and a PTO 8+ amps?. That 3 amps is like headlight territory. Perhaps something vibrated loose or frayed , leaking to ground? Glad you are on track and the display doesn't cost too much. A while back I replaced the glass stovetop display in the kitchen. Even wiggling and squirming it cost $380...ouch!

So I called the local Simplicity dealer about the dashboard display and he said that is not the problem. So he told me to start the lawn tractor and slowly increase the rpm's while reading the volts on the battery. The volts were 12.5 and increased to 13.7 at full rpm's. He said to engage the PTO and read the volts. It was reading 13.3 volts with the PTO engaged. He thinks the rectifier regulator is bad. He told me with the lawn tractor at full rpm's and the PTO engaged, I should be reading over 15 volts. Thought I had it figured out, but this throws a wrench into everything. Once again any help on this new issue would be appreciated.

The regulator/ rectfrier unit has a bunch of diodes in it.
If one fails open circuit then the RR unit allows power to go backwards, from the battery to the stator.
It is a very common mode of failure .
The alternator then tries to become an electric motor which can draw a lot of power.
I seem to recall writing something like this a while back.
Remove the + wire from the RR unit and then see what happens.
I need a circuit diagram to go any further but if you remove the engine cover and follow the wires from the stator they will go into a box somewhere.
That box will have 1 or 2 other wires coming from it.
Disconnect these wires.
Some mowers wire the power feed back into the tractor through the ignition switch and others bypass the switch and run it directly to the battery.
Th only thing that could pull 3 amps and not burst into flames is the alternator

Good stuff from bert. Hope you save $$$ not shotgunning the dash part. I also remember bert's previous input. Electrical stuff is tricky and often the suspected is not the problem as current has a mind of its own following Ohms laws. Try the search function in this forum with various wordings. I think mad mackie also spoke on this subject. I do not know what rectifier replacement costs on these riders, but I have replaced several in auto alternators and the "kits" were cheap ( and still running 10 years later.) Keep us updated as many are watching with similar current or future problems.

Thanks Bert for the reply. So your saying it most likely is not the dashboard display. Now i'm back to square one. UGH!!! So I called the simplicity dealer back and he said the more he thinks about it, the problem most likely is not the rectifier regulator. The price on a new dashboard display is $192.00 plus tax. Steep price to pay just to try and see if this is the problem. But the dealer said he has a model just like mine, and would lend me the display to try and see if this is the problem. I recharged the battery today and I am going to monitor the battery for any drain over the next week with the dashboard display disconnected. On a side note, I always clean my lawn tractor with water after every cut. Could I have gotten water in the display and it is shorting out causing the draw ? Thanks.

Sounds like a pretty cool dealer. Without knowing what is in the display and if it is e.g. liquid crystal etc it is hard to know total current driving it, but 3 amps seems way too high to turn on the electronics and keep them running. I would guess it should be maybe 1 amp total, or less. Think xmas tree lights...8 foot tree loaded with leds (diodes) drawing practically nothing. If you could get a mfgr name off the display perhaps call them? Water idea...dry dash with hair dryer or mother nature , take new reading?

Found this with a quick search of the B&S engine. I would be tempted to look at the electrical system before shelling out the bucks for a new dash display.

https://www.partstree.com/parts/bri.../alternator-controls-ignition-overnor-spring/

Is this what your Regulator looks like? https://www.partstree.com/parts/briggs-and-stratton/parts/845907/

Tom

Thanks Motoman. I will try drying the display and probably will borrow the dealers display just to check before purchasing a new one.
Yes Tom, that is exactly what the regulator looks like. That would be the cheaper route to take by purchasing the regulator. I will keep everyone posted as soon as I know more. Thanks.

I had the battery load tested and everything was good. I borrowed the dashboard display from the Simplicity dealer and got the same reading as my display. ( 3.2 amps) so it's not the display either. Checked all plugs and wiggled different wires and still no change. Still getting the same reading. Looks like I will have to take it somewhere to get looked at.

It looks like you are determined to do this the hardest way possible.
You really need a circuit diagram other wise it is just a guessing game.

Now for starters I doubt you are really getting a 3.2A load.
Most lawnmower batteries are between 20 to 30 Amp Hours.
So if you had a 3A load the battery would go from fully charged to dead flat in 7 to 10 hours not over 3 weeks.
30 Amp Hours means exactly what it says.
Any combination of Amps x time ( hours ) that equals 30 ( 15 x 2 , 5 x 6 , 3 x 10 etc etc etc )
If you had a 3A load you would see a large spark whenever you connect or disconnect one of the battery terminals.
This is one method I use for chasing phantom loads, much more reliable than trying to use a multimeter and in particular the modern auto ranging digital meters.
I jack the mower up , put it on jack stands then unplug & replug each switch till one of them flashing at me.

You can download the circuit diagram form Simplicity by going to this link
https://www.simplicitymfg.com/na/en_us/support/manuals.html
Click on the tractor then type in your model number in the pop up box.
Download all 3 manuals that apply to your tractor, Wiring, operators & parts.
On page 49 of the parts book you will see the actual loom as it is installed on your mower
The 3 circuit diagrams are all the same.
The wires that are shown in colour are the ones that are applicable to the task printed underneath, starting, charging & stopping to make it easier for people who get confused by wiring diagrams to understand what is connected to what.

I seem to remember twice suggesting that you check the rectifier.
By check I specifically mean for you to unplug the violet wire , not check with the dealer to see what he thinks
If you want support from the forum it is a 2 way thing.
We ask you to do things then wait for you to post the results.
Based upon what your response is we suggest further testing or replacing parts, that is how it works.
Others look at what you are being asked to do and if they see a problem they chime in and we sort it out.
If you look at both the wiring diagram in the parts book and the circuit diagram on the wiring pages you will see that there is only 1 wire connected to the + on the battery.
that wire goes to the solenoid then to the breaker then to the ignition switch where according to the box in the bottom right corner it connects to the B wire and when turned off, nothing else.
SO test no 1 is to back test the plug on the ignition switch to confirm you have 12V between the B terminal and ground and no VOLTAGE readings between any other terminal and ground while the ignition is turned off.
Test 2 is to verify the connections for the on position the same way
Test 3 is to check the start position but you might need a 3rd hand to do that,
Do this and tell me what you found.

Juice ,Hang in there ....with patience you can probably trouble shoot as well as many dealers. As you probe around and take readings you may stumble accross something hiding in clear sight causing the problem.

I finally got some time to do some of the tests that Bert suggested. I connected and disconnected the battery terminals and I got no spark. I jacked up and put the lawn mower on jack stands. I unplugged and plugged back in (numerous times ) all plugs and switches. I got no flashes or sparks. I checked any clusters of wires for any obvious bare wires, I seen none. Disconnected (2) ground wires (black) underneath the mower. These wires were connected to a bolt. Removed wires from the bolt and cleaned up the wires and metal that they were connected too. Wires looked a little dirty where they would connect to the frame. Before I continued with the other tests Bert suggested, I did the test I did earlier in this post. Disconnected the ground ( negative) cable from the battery and hooked up the multimeter red probe to the black cable and the multimeter black probe to the negative terminal on the battery. I got a reading of 0.002 milliamps. This test was done with the dashboard display connected. When I did this test before I was getting the reading of 3.2 amps. Could the cleaning of the ground wires have fixed the problem ? Or could I have just moved a bare wire that was touching the frame grounding out ?

Absolutely yes to both questions. Suggestion, do not use water near engine or anything electrical, use a leaf blower. Water will shorten life of electrical components.

https://www.simplicitymfg.com/eu/en_gb/search.html?searchrequested=2690600

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/n...nemanuals.html?searchrequested=386777-0111-e1

posted information above for your tractor

cleaning the ground contact is a good idea.
I pant over them , and any other place where dissimilar metals are in contact to prevent galvanic corrosion with liquid electrical tape which works a lot better than grease.
Some dust is insulating and some is conductive however with the ignition off there should be no power anywhere other than from the battery to the starting solenoid and then on to the B terminal on the ignition switch.
Now the B terminal is directly above the A terminal which goes to the alternator and if there was a phantom connection between these and the rectifier has an open circuit fault then you could have been pulling 3 Amps
The only other thing that could be pulling that sort of power without self destructing, melting or bursting into flames is the starter is the starter and the only way for that to happen is a short inside the solenoid or a short across the two solenoid wires.
Back testing the iginiton switch will reveal shorts between the B & A terminals as would testing between the purple wire on the rectifier & ground.
Testing between the starter power wire and ground will reveal a short in / on the starter solenoid.

Juice, Ground connection corrosion results in "opens" in the jargon. This is the problem road assistance guys see a lot. Instead of a free path for the electrons to take thru the frame , for instance, they see no connection due to high resistance. Perhaps your reading was the same 20 milliamps you got before. I have not worked on the charging systems on these tracrtors, but seems like some components are accessible and visible. Diodes can be checked with the multimeter, but it takes time. They should only pass current in one direction. You use diode fumction or "beep" setting and probe the component ends and then switch. Beep only allowed in one direction. I am sure the guys will chime in here as it is tedious, and the rectifier may be "potted" with plastic so you can not get at the individual components.

Somewhere there is a "design" schematic with so called "nodes" where one component joins another to form a circuit. The design engineer has specified the expected value
(voltage) a mulitimeter probe should show (that point to ground). If that value is not seen there is a problem and usually a component has failed. For instance I have seen a section in the Inek manual which gives such an approach. Because electrical problems seem so difficult there is lots of shotgunning new parst that are not needed. I hope the pros will chime in again on your problem. You are showing the required patience.:thumbsup:
...

So I checked for power on the ignition this afternoon. I have the 12 volts going from the battery to the solenoid and then 12 volts to the B terminal on the ignition switch. I got no other reading from any of the other terminals on the ignition switch. I disconnected the red wire that goes to the red wire on the RR. In the off position I have no reading. When I turn the key to the run position, I have 12 volts going to the red wire that connects to to the red wire on the RR. Everything there seems good also. I will keep monitoring the battery for any drain over the next week or so. Thanks for everyone's help.