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Bad boy magnum 735cc many issues
#1
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I’m having a lot of issues with this mower. First I thought it was running out of fuel on straightaways, so I replaced the new fuel filter with another new one and the fuel pump. Ran fine after that.
next time mowing, it randomly dies. Replaced starter solenoid because it has trouble cranking the engine over and would only start wirh a jump pack helping.
So now it died. When trying to restart it would only click.
jumped the new solenoid and it would fire. It ran and then died again.
I can’t get the solenoid to work without jumping across the poles. When it does the engine would turn over and seem to lock up.
I turned the motor over with a ratchet and it sounded like grinding, like the starter was still dragging on the engine. Took the starter off and the shaft has a lot of play. And the motor rotated smoothly.
So I’m thinking that the starter was causing drag on the engine and killing it, but not sure why the engine will not crank. Could a faulty ignition switch prevent it from starting?
Thanks for any help.
I took video of turning it over and it locking up and turning it over by hand but I guess I can’t post videos
next time mowing, it randomly dies. Replaced starter solenoid because it has trouble cranking the engine over and would only start wirh a jump pack helping.
So now it died. When trying to restart it would only click.
jumped the new solenoid and it would fire. It ran and then died again.
I can’t get the solenoid to work without jumping across the poles. When it does the engine would turn over and seem to lock up.
I turned the motor over with a ratchet and it sounded like grinding, like the starter was still dragging on the engine. Took the starter off and the shaft has a lot of play. And the motor rotated smoothly.
So I’m thinking that the starter was causing drag on the engine and killing it, but not sure why the engine will not crank. Could a faulty ignition switch prevent it from starting?
Thanks for any help.
I took video of turning it over and it locking up and turning it over by hand but I guess I can’t post videos
#2
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I think you are throwing money at it, hoping that you get lucky and replace a bad part. You should be troubleshooting the problem instead. My guess is that you have a bad battery and/or charging system. I would start by having the battery checked and when you have a fully charged battery, have the charging system checked. If this doesn’t solve the problem, report what you did and we’ll give you more advice as to how to proceed. When you come back make sure you post all engine numbers.
#3
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That’s exactly what I’m doing I’m lost. The battery is at 12.4 and 13.5 when it was running I thought of the charging system a while back when this first started happening but the battery never got below 12 V
#4
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You have not told us everything you have done. Maybe you should tell us everything you have done to this point, as we are still in quarantine and can’t stand next to you watching what is happening. Make sure you explain exact parts, ie, fuel solenoid or starter solenoid? From what you’ve posted so far, l’m guessing, JUST GUESSING you have an electrical problem, which complicates things even more if we can’t see the whole picture. First thing I would check now are the battery connections and the ground connection to chassis ground. I also asked for all engine numbers so we know if you have a Briggs, Kaw, Kohler, Ford, Chevy or Evinrude.
#5
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Ok it’s a Kohler command 735cc. New battery. New starter solenoid and new starter relay. When I turn the key I get just the click. The new solenoid is not closing. When I jump it the solenoid, it has a hard time turning the engine over, like the engine is locking up....which led me to turn it over by hand and find the starter shaft will a lot o play. Do the voltage readings seem correct? I’m not getting voltage on the ignition wire that goes to the starter solenoid when I turn the key. Is there a way to bypass the safety switches till I figure this out?
#6
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First, I’ll ask one more time, engine numbers please. They are on a black and silver tag on the side of the shroud. The voltages May be ok, but I don’t know the conditions under which they were taken. Here is a testing procedure to help.
Electrical* problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. * How well you understand basic electricity.
2. *What tools you have and know how to use.
3. *How well you follow directions.
4. *You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. *You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. *You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. *The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. *If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. *These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. *Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and *voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good.*
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. *One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.*
Third, *check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. *If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. *If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. *If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.*
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position q(you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).*
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).*
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. *At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. *Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. *If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. *Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
Electrical* problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. * How well you understand basic electricity.
2. *What tools you have and know how to use.
3. *How well you follow directions.
4. *You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. *You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. *You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. *The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. *If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. *These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. *Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and *voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good.*
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. *One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.*
Third, *check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. *If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. *If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. *If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.*
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position q(you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).*
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).*
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. *At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. *Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. *If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. *Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
#7
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I’m a lineman and have a good understanding of testing. I’m using a fluke meter. I’m not getting power to the small terminal when the key is turned. That’s my first problem! Lol.
min at work. I’ll get the numbera later
min at work. I’ll get the numbera later
#8
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Never wanted to insinuate that you don’t know what you’re doing. I’m a retired shop instructor, but I have a very poor understanding of ESP and am not standing next to you. When you can paint me a better picture of what is going on with your unit, I may be able to help you out. Throwing guess at electrical problems will only get you deeper in trouble. As you know when troubleshooting electrical problems you never assume anything and double check everything twice.
#10
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And no no! I appreciate the help. Not sure if a safety switch is preventing the ignition wire to get voltage. Is there a way to bypass the switches for the time being? Do I skin them and twist them together and unplug them?
#11
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No need to jump the safety switches as current is getting to the starter solenoid, because you hear a click. You have a voltage drop somewhere, which is why I’m asking you to follow a step by step procedure. Remember I’m a retired instructor and like to follow things in a specific order, not jumping around. My guess right now is you have a bad, dirty or loose ground cable to chassis connection.
#12
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Ok I’ll check the grounds tomorrow morning. I did test the switch. Everything tested good except for S to B which I though would have continuity with the key on. It does make continuity when the key is turned to start.
is that correct for the charging?
is that correct for the charging?
#14
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bertsmobile1
Most mowers are wired basically the same but it is always useful to get your hands on a wiring schematic cause they all like to do the same thing differently.
So we can help you we need to know the Bad Boy model & serial numbers.
I only have one Bad Boy in my service run & all I have ever done for the customer is change belts so I have no idea where BB put their wiring diagrams or if they are available outside their dealer network at all.
The only other thing that needs power for the engine to run is the carb solenoid and usually that is on the A or L terminal on the key switch.
We also all do things differently &I like to bypass all of the safety switches one at a time using short jumpers on the plugs to mimick the switch.
All of them a simple sliding contact switches making or braking contact on the flat sides of the pins.
Nearly all of them are ground switching which seems to confuse most home mechanics.
Be careful not to bridge any plug diagonally as any voltage accidentally send down the kill wire will blow the timing chip
I usually pull the kill wire just to be on the safe side & if looking for a kill wire problem set up a test lamp between the + battery terminal & the kill wire.
Only 2 things that will stop the engine electrically
1) ground on the kill wire
2) no voltage on the carb solenoid wire
BEcause of all of the 1/2 wit idiot morons on U tube advocating the removal of the seat switch, the newer ones have a bridging contact concealed within the plug so if you unplug it the engine gets a kill signal.
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bertsmobile1
That is right, the S sends a signal to the starter motor to spin so it is only energized when the key is in the S position, just the same an automobile.Ok I’ll check the grounds tomorrow morning. I did test the switch. Everything tested good except for S to B which I though would have continuity with the key on. It does make continuity when the key is turned to start.
is that correct for the charging?
Most mowers are wired basically the same but it is always useful to get your hands on a wiring schematic cause they all like to do the same thing differently.
So we can help you we need to know the Bad Boy model & serial numbers.
I only have one Bad Boy in my service run & all I have ever done for the customer is change belts so I have no idea where BB put their wiring diagrams or if they are available outside their dealer network at all.
The only other thing that needs power for the engine to run is the carb solenoid and usually that is on the A or L terminal on the key switch.
We also all do things differently &I like to bypass all of the safety switches one at a time using short jumpers on the plugs to mimick the switch.
All of them a simple sliding contact switches making or braking contact on the flat sides of the pins.
Nearly all of them are ground switching which seems to confuse most home mechanics.
Be careful not to bridge any plug diagonally as any voltage accidentally send down the kill wire will blow the timing chip
I usually pull the kill wire just to be on the safe side & if looking for a kill wire problem set up a test lamp between the + battery terminal & the kill wire.
Only 2 things that will stop the engine electrically
1) ground on the kill wire
2) no voltage on the carb solenoid wire
BEcause of all of the 1/2 wit idiot morons on U tube advocating the removal of the seat switch, the newer ones have a bridging contact concealed within the plug so if you unplug it the engine gets a kill signal.
#15
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I’m at a loss as to what you are saying. In one post you say you replaced the solenoid because you had a hard time turning the engine over. In another post you say the starter solenoid only clicks. In a post you say directly jumping the starter it turns slowly. In a post you say you have zero voltage at the small wire on the small wire at the solenoid. You can’t have it both ways (no voltage and clicking) unless you have any intermittent short or open. Another thing, do you have the starter with a solenoid mounted on it, or a remote mounted solenoid? If remote, is it a three or four post solenoid. If you want to jump around testing different components and not follow a step by step procedure, then I will not be of much help to you, because I’m not smart enough to troubleshoot that way over the internet.
#16
StarTech
StarTech
For troubleshooting for as that least I need the Bad Boy model number from its serial tag so I can try to find the electrical schematics.
When I looked the KT740-3029 it showed it had an Inertial starter and not a solenoid shift starter. So when you said you replaced starter solenoid you replace the remote solenoid? The Inertial starter do have bushings that wear out causing the starter to drag so it may worn out but do have other problems which may that new starter either already toast from the amperage draw of the stalled starter motor. Or it may not even fully pulling in due a voltage drop problem. Check the voltage across the solenoid trigger wire terminal and its ground it should be the same voltage as the battery - less than 1V voltage drop.
But I do see where you said there is no voltage at the small terminal of the starter solenoid so you must get that circuit working first. That why we the model number of the mower as to see what Bad Boy did in setting up the wiring so we can suggest what to test.
As bypassing safeties it all depends on Bad Boy set things up. Some mowers use live safeties and others grounding safeties. Bypassing them the wrong way and you just start fighting yourself.
When I looked the KT740-3029 it showed it had an Inertial starter and not a solenoid shift starter. So when you said you replaced starter solenoid you replace the remote solenoid? The Inertial starter do have bushings that wear out causing the starter to drag so it may worn out but do have other problems which may that new starter either already toast from the amperage draw of the stalled starter motor. Or it may not even fully pulling in due a voltage drop problem. Check the voltage across the solenoid trigger wire terminal and its ground it should be the same voltage as the battery - less than 1V voltage drop.
But I do see where you said there is no voltage at the small terminal of the starter solenoid so you must get that circuit working first. That why we the model number of the mower as to see what Bad Boy did in setting up the wiring so we can suggest what to test.
As bypassing safeties it all depends on Bad Boy set things up. Some mowers use live safeties and others grounding safeties. Bypassing them the wrong way and you just start fighting yourself.
#17
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I’m working on just trying to get 12v to the ignition wire on the remote starter solenoid wire at this point. I have 12v coming into the relay when the ignition switch is turned to start. I posted pics. I hear and feel the relay click. But 12v is not coming out anywhere else after the relay is closed. And I’ve tried different relays.
The safety switches are yellow white for the control arms.... which i assume are live. And the e brake switch is black and white meaning grounded when on.
The safety switches are yellow white for the control arms.... which i assume are live. And the e brake switch is black and white meaning grounded when on.
#18
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I’m sorry, but I’m getting out of this thread. I’ve tried to help, but you refuse to follow any of the question or directions I have posted, which means you must be smarter than me. Hope that someone who is smarter than me can help you out, because I’m sick and tired trying to jump through your hoops. If you really want help I advise you to open your brain and listen to what they say, because you came here looking for help. We are here to help, not type in trash and hope it works.
#19
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Wow ok. I’m just trying to get the 12v to the starter solenoid at this point. That’s the first problem. I’ve traced it to the relay. Not sure what the attitude is for but thanks anyway
#21
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Attitude comes from spending time trying to help, but hitting roadblocks every time I make an attempt. You just wanted someone to justify what you were trying to do, not to listen to your request for help. Doing that just wastes the time of the techs on this forum. Example, you said it clicks, so we assume you mean solenoid. You never told anyone that it was the relay clicking, how were we to know what you meant?
#22
StarTech
StarTech
Although being lineman helps, still this isn't same working on high tension lines. I personally have seen where voltage is present on a terminal until an electrical load is applied then the high resistance caused by a bad connection causes a drop out as the bad connection becomes the voltage hog.
Yes the OP needs to work with us and not go off on their own testing not knowing even what components are involved. I have spend over 40 yrs working in both AC electrical and DC electronics and do know the value of having a wiring schematic in hand for troubleshooting. Personally I am fairly good at finding electrical problems and even then OEM can throw circuits at me can be a little over whelming at times. especially with all of the loops added to the circuits.
Yes the OP needs to work with us and not go off on their own testing not knowing even what components are involved. I have spend over 40 yrs working in both AC electrical and DC electronics and do know the value of having a wiring schematic in hand for troubleshooting. Personally I am fairly good at finding electrical problems and even then OEM can throw circuits at me can be a little over whelming at times. especially with all of the loops added to the circuits.
#23
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bertsmobile1
Without trying to appears abusive or patronising.
You have one problem mower in front of you which you can see touch & feel
We are trying to help dozens of people and have nothing to work with but words on a screen.
If you took your mower into most of our shops we could have fixed it fairly quickly.
It is very difficult trying to follow what some one we can not see is doing to a mower we can not see & are unfamiliar with .
It is made even harde when the posters use the wrong descriptions conflating their mower with their car as a mower has NO IGNITION CIRCUIT and you appear to currently be working on the CRANKING circuit
Thus we ask people to do various tests so we can work out what is happening.
There are a lot of techs on this site with far more knowledge & experience but we all have different proceedures , particularly when dealing with electrical problems.
All of them with ask the poster to do things & post the results so every one can follow what is going on.
Unless this is done we can not help the poster.
Electrical problems get even trickier because some makers keep colours consistant over the entire circuit while others change the colours at every plug and unlike automobiles there is no standard colour coding
So on some mowers the cranking circuit will be all yellow, others it will be pink, or white or blue and without a schematic figuring the circuits out remotely is impossible
Even worse is other mowers will have the magneto kill wires yellow or white and getting those mixed up will fry the trigger chip in the magneto coil.
Add to that is a lot of the switches are ground switches thus you can not assume that ecause a wire is black, it will be a perminant ground.
Now if they all followed a std colour code like solid black for a fixed ground & black with a tracer for a switched ground, life would be wonderful, but it looks like a lot of them make the looms out of whatever is the cheapest wire they get because they change the colour coding season to season.
I am also bowing out of this thread as I can not follow what you are doing either and you have made no effort to clarify what you are doing.
I wish you well with your endeavours but there are no more brick wall standing for me to smack my head into.
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bertsmobile1
Wow ok. I’m just trying to get the 12v to the starter solenoid at this point. That’s the first problem. I’ve traced it to the relay. Not sure what the attitude is for but thanks anyway
Without trying to appears abusive or patronising.
You have one problem mower in front of you which you can see touch & feel
We are trying to help dozens of people and have nothing to work with but words on a screen.
If you took your mower into most of our shops we could have fixed it fairly quickly.
It is very difficult trying to follow what some one we can not see is doing to a mower we can not see & are unfamiliar with .
It is made even harde when the posters use the wrong descriptions conflating their mower with their car as a mower has NO IGNITION CIRCUIT and you appear to currently be working on the CRANKING circuit
Thus we ask people to do various tests so we can work out what is happening.
There are a lot of techs on this site with far more knowledge & experience but we all have different proceedures , particularly when dealing with electrical problems.
All of them with ask the poster to do things & post the results so every one can follow what is going on.
Unless this is done we can not help the poster.
Electrical problems get even trickier because some makers keep colours consistant over the entire circuit while others change the colours at every plug and unlike automobiles there is no standard colour coding
So on some mowers the cranking circuit will be all yellow, others it will be pink, or white or blue and without a schematic figuring the circuits out remotely is impossible
Even worse is other mowers will have the magneto kill wires yellow or white and getting those mixed up will fry the trigger chip in the magneto coil.
Add to that is a lot of the switches are ground switches thus you can not assume that ecause a wire is black, it will be a perminant ground.
Now if they all followed a std colour code like solid black for a fixed ground & black with a tracer for a switched ground, life would be wonderful, but it looks like a lot of them make the looms out of whatever is the cheapest wire they get because they change the colour coding season to season.
I am also bowing out of this thread as I can not follow what you are doing either and you have made no effort to clarify what you are doing.
I wish you well with your endeavours but there are no more brick wall standing for me to smack my head into.
#24
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Well said, but I doubt we will hear back from this guy. Said he solved the problem, but doesn’t want to say what was wrong, as he just got lucky swapping out parts.