Export thread

The fuel solenoid (part 807744) has failed in my B&S Vanguard engine 303700 on a Countax mower.
No parts stockist that I have tried have any.
No more are expected until End Sept. There are none on Ebay.
Anyone got any advice/ideas please?

Please post the type and code numbers for your engine. There are two different possible solenoids used on the engine.

Sorry but I do not have my mower at present to check this. It has been at the repairers for 3 months waiting for the part.
However, I know it is a 303700 and some time ago I wrote the following information from the label - 294777-1035-E2 but I do not know what it means. I looked at the parts manual and like you, I saw 2 different solenoids. I found one of them online and got it with the proviso that it could be returned if it did not fit. This was part 806472 and the repairer said it did not fit and the part I need is 807744 (my machine is just pre Jun 98 when it changed) so I have been looking for the other one - part 807744 but cannot find anyone with it in stock and B&S say they will not receive it in the UK until end of September. I do not know why the one I got did not fit as the carburetor is not changed.

300707 and 294777 are two different engines, but they do take the same solenoid #807774 the engine was manufactured before 7-1-98. I did google that number and it is available, but don’t know if it is available outside the US.

For the time being replace the solenoid with carburrettor bolt # 691511 and copper/ fiber or aluminium washer
When you shut down run the throttle to minimum then turn engine off .
Occasionally you might get a backfire from the muffler , it won't hurt anything other than your nerves .

Rivets said:

300707 and 294777 are two different engines, but they do take the same solenoid #807774 the engine was manufactured before 7-1-98. I did google that number and it is available, but don’t know if it is available outside the US.

Click to expand...

Rivets, The 807774 (superseded to 808219) is a blower housing and is currently NLA. The PN is 807744. It is currently on back order through Briggs with no indicated available time frame here in the US.

It seems about everything I need from Brigg is being back ordered lately. I got in three governors that I order back on June 2. I am burning through my Briggs inventory and it getting to a point now that equipment is sitting one to two months before repairs can be completed due parts availability.

Sorry, fingers are too big, my mistake.

StarTech said:

Rivets, The 807774 (superseded to 808219) is a blower housing and is currently NLA. The PN is 807744. It is currently on back order through Briggs with no indicated available time frame here in the US.

It seems about everything I need from Brigg is being back ordered lately. I got in three governors that I order back on June 2. I am burning through my Briggs inventory and it getting to a point now that equipment is sitting one to two months before repairs can be completed due parts availability.

Click to expand...

Backordered 84005207 camshaft went from June 17 to pending.

ILENGINE said:

Backordered 84005207 camshaft went from June 17 to pending.

Click to expand...

Oh just great....I done had to install three poor quality 793880 aftermarket camshafts so far because the customer had to get their lawns mowed. I got another broken one in the shop now. I don't normally install more than one or two a year.

These aftermarkets don't fit well and require reworking the lower part to fit the camshaft bearing (.001 oversized), they are a little short (0.040" short)on the oil drive end, and the provided oil pump drive shaft will not fit either ( also .001 oversized).

Briggs has screw up in a major way in my opinion.

@StarTech What Briggs hadn't already killed off with the bankruptcy they will loose over this camshaft backorder fiasco. The camshaft being backordeded indefinitely will keep the dealer from repairing a large portion of the Briggs consumer market, and will result in Briggs engines being replaced with other brands.

A local dealer told me his supplier told him that briggs has stopped ordering engine parts for the spares system. Hope it is a bad rumor but What does that tell you?

Hammermechanicman said:

A local dealer told me his supplier told him that briggs has stopped ordering engine parts for the spares system. Hope it is a bad rumor but What does that tell you?

Click to expand...

sounds like briggs might be going down the toilet.......
maybe Kohler built the toilet...

Hammermechanicman said:

A local dealer told me his supplier told him that briggs has stopped ordering engine parts for the spares system. Hope it is a bad rumor but What does that tell you?

Click to expand...

Sounds like the manufacturer of the cam shafts will not supply B & S till they pay for the stuff they got out of paying for legally by declairing.
We have worked with several customers who went under on the grounds that they payed 20% higher rate for their couriers till the money they owed was paid off.
It actually worked really well for both of us.
We got our money & they managed their couriers lot more efficiently .
The last lot of cams I bought , back in 2018 because B &S australia could not supply , came off Made In China & had to order 20 as they were ( supposedly ) coming directly from the factory.
I fitted one, kept 4 and sold the other 15 in 2 days on evilpay for twice what I paid for them.
To date I have not needed any more but only have one left .
A PIA to spend 6 hours on the web but worth it in the long run .
When I get rid of the last 5 engines in stock I will no longer fit any more B & S engines for this reason.
No good encouraging a customer to fit a new engine then not being able to repair them
RGS wholesale Kawakasi & Stens are supposed to be wholesaling Loncin down here and because of MTD & Toro both are stocking Loncin parts .
And to add to the insult the last 3 times I tried to download a B & S IPL I got redirected to the Power Portal which because I am not an authorised B & S dealer I can not access.
People who pay themselves $ 500,000 /pa do not seem to have any idea about the reality on the ground.

If chineese Honda knockoffs become the new industry standard i wonder if there will be knockoffs of the knockoffs?

Bert all you need to access the Power Portal so you can download IPLs and repair manuals is a Technician account under a willing dealer account. You will be limit to the following resources.


Bert, are you a member of the ODK forum? If so contact user AVB there and he maybe able to help.

That sounds good
B & S OZ told me something substantially different ,
ie ;- do an acredited course ( in Melbourne , 1100km away ) for an outrageous amount of money then open an account ( which requires $ 30,000 of stock to be held )
By ODK I presume you mean the King run by Bruce
In which case yes I am but not been financial for a while.
But I will chase it up

Yes Bruce's site.

I just don't see why Briggs is such a pain to deal when you are an independent shop. I only got around 8K in Briggs parts here but have over 35K in all parts I just see a reason to carry thing that are slow mowers especially when distributor can normally deliver in three days or less. I did have about 15K at one time but Briggs parts gotten very slow so my inventory is dropping fast.

I was ordering direct from Power Distributors until they got pissed when they found out I had better discount from another distributor that drop ships through them. 20% is a lot better than 10%, just takes an extra day. They closed my account. They should have just verified the discount I was getting and offer me the same. They would have made more profit instead of me going the second and third distributors.

Hammermechanicman said:

If chineese Honda knockoffs become the new industry standard i wonder if there will be knockoffs of the knockoffs?

Click to expand...

good question..... maybe we'll start getting $50 knockoff's of the $100 knockoffs.

I have unscrewed the solenoid and cut off the bottom so it can not plug the main jet and that make it the same as the bolt they sell to plug the hole . It is already junk so no foul . Before that part we had the bolt and when we were ready to shut the engine off we let it run at a ideal long enough to cool some , lets the carbon on the head and piston to quit glowing and cause the rod breaking backfire,

Is the solenoid working but leaking? If so put an inline fuel shutoff valve between pump and carb, cut it off before you kill it cut it on right after you crank. Solenoid controlled carbs are junk meant to be problematic. If it's not functioning remove or grind solenoid stem off and use the inline valve to control fuel flow. Even if you repair it with new solenoid it's gonna fail again. The valve will prevent fuel entering crankcase oil or flooding while parked. $6 permanent fix as opposed to $60 labor charge to install a i don't know $15 or $20 solenoid every year or so. G'luck

Those anti afterfire solenoids, DO NOT control fuel flow into the bowl, or into the intake... carb needles will still fail, and carbs with those solenoids will still fill up a crankcase with gas if the needle or float fails.
all it does is block off the main jet... gas can still flow up in vent passages into the carb and fill up a crankcase.

Remove or disable the after fire solenoid. Install a fuel cut off valve and use it.

About a minute prior to being finished mowing, I reach around and shut off my fuel. As is driving into the garage the fuel is off.

slomo

You have to remember that OZ is a small market with big ideas
So to bolster B & S warehouse profits authorised dealers have to keep , or at least initally order a lot of parts although that does include wholegoods but only B & S branded ones.
At one time I did have that amount of new engines but they all came fro SEW or SES which made them 2/3 the price of stock from the warehouse even including shipping.
Kohler is about the same
Stihl require a minimum of $ 8,000 to be stocked at all times and apparently they require you to use their inventory soft wear so they can check what you have in stock.
This is supposedly so you can supply another dealer if the warehouse is at nil stock ( like I believe that ) .

It has been the same story here from day one
Too many people trying to make too much profit from too small a turn over

And of course I am mobile & as such have no real retail presence other than a rack of oils by the workshop door .
All of the franchisors want to see retail showroom space full of their POS advertising which of course I am supposed to pay for .

Im beginning to think Slomo has stock in a Fuel Shut Off valve company.

StarTech said:

Im beginning to think Slomo has stock in a Fuel Shut Off valve company.

Click to expand...

The Chi'sneeze beat me to it.

slomo

slomo said:

The Chi'sneeze beat me to it.

slomo

Click to expand...

We'll start calling you Slo Mo Xin....

(Slow motion)

Thank you all for your helpful replies. In particular the suggestion from bertsmobile1 to temporarily replace the solenoid with a screw and the reassurance that it will do no harm. I have passed that on to the repairers and they are going to try it - if they can get the correct screw! In case they are unable to source the actual part, do you know the sizes of the screw please? (length, diameter and thread)

You can just snip off the plunger rod and screw it back in.

StarTech said:

Oh just great....I done had to install three poor quality 793880 aftermarket camshafts so far because the customer had to get their lawns mowed. I got another broken one in the shop now. I don't normally install more than one or two a year.

These aftermarkets don't fit well and require reworking the lower part to fit the camshaft bearing (.001 oversized), they are a little short (0.040" short)on the oil drive end, and the provided oil pump drive shaft will not fit either ( also .001 oversized).

Briggs has screw up in a major way in my opinion.

Click to expand...

My backordered camshafts just went from pending to August 2 so maybe they will eventually ship them. We will see if they show up.

What is the update on the carb solenoid?

I snip the plunger off the solenoid and remove the wiring harness. Reinstall the now non working solenoid. Never have to worry about no starts again.

When finished with the mower, I shut off my fuel with a fuel cut off valve about 30 seconds till I'm done. Idle down for a few seconds and kill the engine.

slomo

I have my mower back after 20 weeks. The repairers have inserted a screw in the hole and the mower now works albeit with a bang a few seconds after switching off unless I remember to close the throttle first. I can live with that until a replacement is available, estimated end of September. Thanks again for your help.

Snowman1 said:

I have my mower back after 20 weeks. The repairers have inserted a screw in the hole and the mower now works albeit with a bang a few seconds after switching off unless I remember to close the throttle first. I can live with that until a replacement is available, estimated end of September. Thanks again for your help.

Click to expand...

Put a fuel shut off valve inline. Shut the fuel off about a minute prior to being finished mowing. This and the low revs, at that time only, will stop the muffler popping. Valves are ultra cheap. Can get a pack on sleezebay or amazon for cheap. Put them on every mower you can fit them on.

ILENGINE said:

My backordered camshafts just went from pending to August 2 so maybe they will eventually ship them. We will see if they show up.

Click to expand...

Well, will today be the day i wonder..? ?

@Scrubcadet10 I have already checked twice today to see if anything had changed. Nothing yet.

Checked with another of my suppliers and they are now showing 49 in stock. But I am not paying list plus 30% with already two on backorder that if they show at my Briggs warehouse today will get dealer pricing.

Scrubcadet10 said:

Well, will today be the day i wonder..? ?

Click to expand...

Camshafts are still showing 8/2/21 and no shipment at this time. Good news is the pressure washer part from last September is shipping.

ILENGINE said:

Camshafts are still showing 8/2/21 and no shipment at this time. Good news is the pressure washer part from last September is shipping.

Click to expand...

8/2/21 has come and gone and no camshafts and no update on ETA. Still shows 8/2/21

ILENGINE said:

8/2/21 has come and gone and no camshafts and no update on ETA. Still shows 8/2/21

Click to expand...

Back to pending. So still no camshafts

bertsmobile1 said:

For the time being replace the solenoid with carburrettor bolt # 691511 and copper/ fiber or aluminium washer
When you shut down run the throttle to minimum then turn engine off .
Occasionally you might get a backfire from the muffler , it won't hurt anything other than your nerves .

Click to expand...

Just this week,my mower,the Husqvarna 42175 ZTR,powered with a 19hp Intek B&S,,just up and quit ,at the back of the one acre MIL's yard! A quick diagnosis led me to believe no fuel. Fuel tank was full,fuel valve was on "ON",so what? The pesky anti-backfire solenoid carb valve,maybe? Turning the key on and off produced no 'click' from the solenoid,but it had juice to it.( Before reading on.. please be advised, I do not sugguest defeating ANY safety features at all!) I removed the solenoid,plugged it back into the harness,turned the key and no retraction of the pin valve. Warning:a non-recommended fix follows. I took my side cuts and cut the tip of the needle valve off. (Horrors) put everything back together and proceeded to mow without further ado for the next hour,or so. The ignition switch has the magneto kill switch incorporated into it so no issue with shutting down. Is this OK or am I in deep trouble with the EPA? :-D.

I think you will be fine with us and the EPA, and most wouldn't consider the fuel solenoid part of the safety system, other than protecting your and your neighbors ears from the bang.

When you finish mowing throttle down the turn off.
Don't leave it on low idle just strait down & turn off .
That should eliminate the after fire bang in the muffler .

ILENGINE said:

Back to pending. So still no camshafts

Click to expand...

New ETA on camshafts is 8/30/21

bertsmobile1 said:

When you finish mowing throttle down the turn off.
Don't leave it on low idle just strait down & turn off .
That should eliminate the after fire bang in the muffler .

Click to expand...

Thanks,bertsmobile1,
I've had no 'backfire' issues at all. This mower has the magneto kill wire incorporated into the key switch,so maybe that has something to do with no backfiring. I do have other carbs with this problem solenoid valve,but is it really worth putting a known possible failure part back on the mower. One that isn't needed in the first place,imho.

Backfiring is raw fuel entering the hot muffler.

Scrubcadet10 said:

Backfiring is raw fuel entering the hot muffler.

Click to expand...

BEcause engines run way too hot now days the mufflers run red hot inside, an some even have after burners in there.
Because the pin is snipped off the solenoid in those last 1/2 dozen revolutions before the engine comes to rest fuel is sucked in & blown out unburned into the muffler.
And because the engine is running slower, some fresh air will also get sucked into the muffler from the outside.
If the air fuel mix from the engine +the fresh air get to the flashover ratio inside the muffler and the muffler still has some red hot parts inside then the mixture will ignite.
Usually this is from 10 seconds to a minute after the engine has stopped so is termed "after fire" .
Now the after fire was a Godsend for the EPA because they could pretend the very expensive solenoid was there to do some good for the owner and not from pollution regulations.
Thus Rodney Redneck is not on line 24/7 trying to convince every one to "strike a blow for your freedom " and cut them off

ILENGINE said:

New ETA on camshafts is 8/30/21

Click to expand...

Even those Chinese AM camshaft are better than letting the grass get to be two foot tall. Other than having turn down the journals they seem to holding on the 4 engines I install them in but of course it only been 2-3 months of use. One did out last the customer.

Scrubcadet10 said:

Backfiring is raw fuel entering the hot muffler.

Click to expand...

Got cha! I do have several carbs with the solenoids that are intact,maybe I'll put one of them on and keep the 'snipped' one in reserve for when the intact one fails at the back of my acreage!
I do have one question though,is there any likely cause for these solenoid valves to fail?

Snowman1 said:

The fuel solenoid (part 807744) has failed in my B&S Vanguard engine 303700 on a Countax mower.
No parts stockist that I have tried have any.
No more are expected until End Sept. There are none on Ebay.
Anyone got any advice/ideas please?

Click to expand...

Snowman1,did you read what I did to finish my mowing job? Clip the tip until you can get the replacement part.

SamB said:

I do have one question though,is there any likely cause for these solenoid valves to fail?

Click to expand...

Yes they can fail. It will leave you scratching your head on if the carb is getting fuel internally. Snip the plunger off and reinstall. Move on with life.

slomo said:

Yes they can fail. It will leave you scratching your head on if the carb is getting fuel internally. Snip the plunger off and reinstall. Move on with life.

Click to expand...

Thanks. That is what I have decided to do. It only took me a couple of minutes to diagnose the 'No fuel' issue,and just a couple of minutes to remove and modify the plunger. It actually took longer to walk back to the garage to get the tools,well,tool,a 1/2 inch wrench is all it takes. I think I'll leave it as is and put my spare fuel shut off solenoid back on the shelf

I have just heard from my repairers that B&S have made the solenoid for my engine obsolete and will not be supplying it any more.
Not very good customer service!

Snowman1 said:

I have just heard from my repairers that B&S have made the solenoid for my engine obsolete and will not be supplying it any more.
Not very good customer service!

Click to expand...

Snip the plunger off and reinstall. Never worry about it again. Little fuel shut off valve and you are golden.

slomo said:

Snip the plunger off and reinstall. Never worry about it again. Little fuel shut off valve and you are golden.

Click to expand...

Well if you guys are still referring to the 807744 solenoid that is going to very, very had to do.

Just too many here on this set of forums that never bother to look up things then giving bad advice. I reckon most are simply too lazy to do it. This constantly guessing at things has cause me to stop providing any meaningful support here. If I want a good laugh all I got to do is to check some of the responses here.

Maybe that is why so many shops around here do half a** work now that I must rework in order to do decent repairs.

An example is the Husqvarna in the shop now where deck pulleys are rusted and never cleaned; therefore, just ate up the new deck belt. Mice damaged wiring. And what worst is a carburetor needing repair that they instructed the owner to simple manually adjust the throttle cable at the carburetor they have starting problems. Just plain poor workmanship for a socalled professional shop.

They are not cheap but worth it to get OEM B&S part. The inexpensive ones are made overseas & may claim to be B&S OEM part but are not.
https://www.briggsstrattonstore.com/briggs-stratton-part-807744/ The real deal.

StarTech said:

Just too many here on this set of forums that never bother to look up things then giving bad advice. I reckon most are simply too lazy to do it. This constantly guessing at things has cause me to stop providing any meaningful support here. If I want a good laugh all I got to do is to check some of the responses here.

Maybe that is why so many shops around here do half a** work now that I must rework in order to do decent repairs.

An example is the Husqvarna in the shop now where deck pulleys are rusted and never cleaned; therefore, just ate up the new deck belt. Mice damaged wiring. And what worst is a carburetor needing repair that they instructed the owner to simple manually adjust the throttle cable at the carburetor they have starting problems. Just plain poor workmanship for a socalled professional shop.

Click to expand...

I'm the one throwing out bad advice. And too lazy to look up their parts. All the solenoids I've seen had a plunger tip to snip off. My bad for not looking up his correct part and offering proper advice.

ILENGINE said:

New ETA on camshafts is 8/30/21

Click to expand...

Looks like the camshaft is no longer on my backorder list and are now also showing in stock at PD, Haven't received them yet so could still be a mistake on the distributer website since they started updating the site almost a month ago.

@Scrubcadet10 Just received the invoices for the backordered camshafts with UPS tracking numbers. So they are coming.