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Ariens Apex Weak/Defective HydroGear Transaxle?
#1
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
Hello all.
I took ownership of a brand new Ariens Apex 48" mower two weeks ago. Model number 991296. It is equipped with HydoGear ZT-3100 Hydrostatic Transmissions. I noticed while using it for the first time that it was not tracking straight in reverse. Forward travel, although not as fast as I was expecting, was straight. But when I would pull back on both handles, despite them being aligned with each other, the mower would want to pull to the right. This was most apparent when I would be at the end of one run and would turn to the right and then back to the left; it would move extremely slow to that side. I did not experience this when turning the other way in reverse. This tells me that the right side hydrostatic is much slower/weaker than the left side.
With just over 1 hour on the meter, I dropped the machine off at the dealership that I purchased it from. I got a call today from the service department and it was explained to me that the technicians were able to make some adjustments to the control/hydrostatic linkages on the right side of the machine, but the reverse tracking is still not 100% or perfect. The service guy went on to say that there really isn't any adjustment on the transmissions so any changes in the travel has to be done on the machine itself and that regardless of the machine make or model, there will never be identical wheel travel from left and right side transmissions on a zero turn. The technician made all of the adjustment possible on the machine so there is nothing more that can be adjusted. With that being said, he did state that it tracks much better in reverse than it did when I brought it in, but there is just a very small amount of pull to the right when in reverse. He even stated that I might not even notice it in operation. I will have to go up there and give it a try before taking it home.
I have owned 3 Exmarks in the past, one with separate pump and drive motors, one with ZT-2800s and one with ZT-3400s and I do not ever recall them pulling to one side in reverse. Now I cannot say with all certainty that they were "perfect" but this issue that I am having wasn't noticeable on any of those machines.
Am I crazy for expecting reverse operation to be straight and "perfect"? Should I be concerned with the fact that they have used up all possible adjustment on the right side drive control linkages?
Of course when I first heard what they said that they did and that it still wasn't perfect, I got defensive and asked that they reach back out to Ariens because I expect(ed) it to operate a certain way and it didn't, especially considering that it is brand new.
Maybe others have had a similar experience with zero turn hydrostatics and this is just how they are (okay but not perfect)?
I took ownership of a brand new Ariens Apex 48" mower two weeks ago. Model number 991296. It is equipped with HydoGear ZT-3100 Hydrostatic Transmissions. I noticed while using it for the first time that it was not tracking straight in reverse. Forward travel, although not as fast as I was expecting, was straight. But when I would pull back on both handles, despite them being aligned with each other, the mower would want to pull to the right. This was most apparent when I would be at the end of one run and would turn to the right and then back to the left; it would move extremely slow to that side. I did not experience this when turning the other way in reverse. This tells me that the right side hydrostatic is much slower/weaker than the left side.
With just over 1 hour on the meter, I dropped the machine off at the dealership that I purchased it from. I got a call today from the service department and it was explained to me that the technicians were able to make some adjustments to the control/hydrostatic linkages on the right side of the machine, but the reverse tracking is still not 100% or perfect. The service guy went on to say that there really isn't any adjustment on the transmissions so any changes in the travel has to be done on the machine itself and that regardless of the machine make or model, there will never be identical wheel travel from left and right side transmissions on a zero turn. The technician made all of the adjustment possible on the machine so there is nothing more that can be adjusted. With that being said, he did state that it tracks much better in reverse than it did when I brought it in, but there is just a very small amount of pull to the right when in reverse. He even stated that I might not even notice it in operation. I will have to go up there and give it a try before taking it home.
I have owned 3 Exmarks in the past, one with separate pump and drive motors, one with ZT-2800s and one with ZT-3400s and I do not ever recall them pulling to one side in reverse. Now I cannot say with all certainty that they were "perfect" but this issue that I am having wasn't noticeable on any of those machines.
Am I crazy for expecting reverse operation to be straight and "perfect"? Should I be concerned with the fact that they have used up all possible adjustment on the right side drive control linkages?
Of course when I first heard what they said that they did and that it still wasn't perfect, I got defensive and asked that they reach back out to Ariens because I expect(ed) it to operate a certain way and it didn't, especially considering that it is brand new.
Maybe others have had a similar experience with zero turn hydrostatics and this is just how they are (okay but not perfect)?
#2
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The forward & reverse tracking test is only valid if you do it on concrete or on asphalt .
And to use an over used saying "they all do that sir " which is why humans have brains so you can compensate .
The "old " ( in fact very old ) test was to go full forward for 30' then full back 30' and you are supposed to end up no more than 1' either side of where you started .
Now expensive ZTRs may have individual adjustments for forward & reverse and believe you me I spent hours trying to get them adjusted properly but in reality it is a waste of time and now days most have no tracking adjustment at all apart from maximum & minimum .
And to use an over used saying "they all do that sir " which is why humans have brains so you can compensate .
The "old " ( in fact very old ) test was to go full forward for 30' then full back 30' and you are supposed to end up no more than 1' either side of where you started .
Now expensive ZTRs may have individual adjustments for forward & reverse and believe you me I spent hours trying to get them adjusted properly but in reality it is a waste of time and now days most have no tracking adjustment at all apart from maximum & minimum .
#3
Tiger Small Engine
If you spend the time, it has been my experience that you can get the tracking pretty darn close on zero turns steering. When you pick it up, and you are not satisfied, take it to another dealer for adjustment, or try it yourself. Remember, tracking straight in forward direction is much more important than reverse.
Tiger Small Engine
Hello all.
I took ownership of a brand new Ariens Apex 48" mower two weeks ago. Model number 991296. It is equipped with HydoGear ZT-3100 Hydrostatic Transmissions. I noticed while using it for the first time that it was not tracking straight in reverse. Forward travel, although not as fast as I was expecting, was straight. But when I would pull back on both handles, despite them being aligned with each other, the mower would want to pull to the right. This was most apparent when I would be at the end of one run and would turn to the right and then back to the left; it would move extremely slow to that side. I did not experience this when turning the other way in reverse. This tells me that the right side hydrostatic is much slower/weaker than the left side.
With just over 1 hour on the meter, I dropped the machine off at the dealership that I purchased it from. I got a call today from the service department and it was explained to me that the technicians were able to make some adjustments to the control/hydrostatic linkages on the right side of the machine, but the reverse tracking is still not 100% or perfect. The service guy went on to say that there really isn't any adjustment on the transmissions so any changes in the travel has to be done on the machine itself and that regardless of the machine make or model, there will never be identical wheel travel from left and right side transmissions on a zero turn. The technician made all of the adjustment possible on the machine so there is nothing more that can be adjusted. With that being said, he did state that it tracks much better in reverse than it did when I brought it in, but there is just a very small amount of pull to the right when in reverse. He even stated that I might not even notice it in operation. I will have to go up there and give it a try before taking it home.
I have owned 3 Exmarks in the past, one with separate pump and drive motors, one with ZT-2800s and one with ZT-3400s and I do not ever recall them pulling to one side in reverse. Now I cannot say with all certainty that they were "perfect" but this issue that I am having wasn't noticeable on any of those machines.
Am I crazy for expecting reverse operation to be straight and "perfect"? Should I be concerned with the fact that they have used up all possible adjustment on the right side drive control linkages?
Of course when I first heard what they said that they did and that it still wasn't perfect, I got defensive and asked that they reach back out to Ariens because I expect(ed) it to operate a certain way and it didn't, especially considering that it is brand new.
Maybe others have had a similar experience with zero turn hydrostatics and this is just how they are (okay but not perfect)?
If you spend the time, it has been my experience that you can get the tracking pretty darn close on zero turns steering. When you pick it up, and you are not satisfied, take it to another dealer for adjustment, or try it yourself. Remember, tracking straight in forward direction is much more important than reverse.
#4
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
My question is what do you mean by “perfect”? Can you get perfect when the handles are not aligned? Many times I’ve got them “perfect “ by tweeting the handles not trying to adjust the hydro. I would also check and make sure the tire pressures are all within specs.
#5
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
Thank you both for your responses.
I actually got a call from the dealership last night and they said that Ariens sent them two new linkages to replace the ones that were installed on the machine from the factory. These would be the mechanical linkages between the drive control levers and the control arms on the transmissions. Once the new linkages were installed and re-adjusted, they were able to get the machine to track straight in reverse with both control levers pulled back all the way.
The only issue that I am having now is that the machine is able to move while the brake is set. I noticed this when I started the mower when I got home from picking it up today. As soon as I started the mower it starting turning to the left. When I disengaged the parking brake and moved the machine with the control levers it moved as expected but then when I put the brake on again, it started moving slowly to the left.
I drove the mower off of my trailer, which was on a slight angle and it did not appear to move when the brake was engaged, but if I set the brake and pulled back on the left control levers the machine will move to the left and then stops on its own. At that point it will not move any more, which seems as if the brake is finally "catching." If I disengage the parking brake and set it again immediately, it will allow movement again until it stops.
I am quite certain that this is a result of the parts that were just replaced and can be fixed with an adjustment, but this is ridiculous. I have 2.2 hours on my machine, 1 of which was from time spent at the dealership, and it is now going back for the second time in two weeks.
I actually got a call from the dealership last night and they said that Ariens sent them two new linkages to replace the ones that were installed on the machine from the factory. These would be the mechanical linkages between the drive control levers and the control arms on the transmissions. Once the new linkages were installed and re-adjusted, they were able to get the machine to track straight in reverse with both control levers pulled back all the way.
The only issue that I am having now is that the machine is able to move while the brake is set. I noticed this when I started the mower when I got home from picking it up today. As soon as I started the mower it starting turning to the left. When I disengaged the parking brake and moved the machine with the control levers it moved as expected but then when I put the brake on again, it started moving slowly to the left.
I drove the mower off of my trailer, which was on a slight angle and it did not appear to move when the brake was engaged, but if I set the brake and pulled back on the left control levers the machine will move to the left and then stops on its own. At that point it will not move any more, which seems as if the brake is finally "catching." If I disengage the parking brake and set it again immediately, it will allow movement again until it stops.
I am quite certain that this is a result of the parts that were just replaced and can be fixed with an adjustment, but this is ridiculous. I have 2.2 hours on my machine, 1 of which was from time spent at the dealership, and it is now going back for the second time in two weeks.
#6
C
cruzenmike
I really wasn't trying to be nit picky but once I was "tuned" into the problem, I wasn't willing to accept anything but perfect (no noticeable difference in wheel speed at full reverse) on what is essentially a brand new machine.
C
cruzenmike
Perfect to me is simply tracking straight when the levers are pushed forward to the stops or pulled backwards to the stops. I probably wouldn't have even noticed that it didn't track straight in reverse if it wasn't for the fact that the right side was so much weaker than the left side. It was pulling so much to that side in reverse that I could have probably made a full circle in a two car wide driveway in full reverse on both levers. Taking it in to have the adjustments made, I just wasn't too thrilled with a technician telling me that they "have done all that they can do" and that "hydrostatitics will never be perfect."My question is what do you mean by “perfect”? Can you get perfect when the handles are not aligned? Many times I’ve got them “perfect “ by tweeting the handles not trying to adjust the hydro. I would also check and make sure the tire pressures are all within specs.
I really wasn't trying to be nit picky but once I was "tuned" into the problem, I wasn't willing to accept anything but perfect (no noticeable difference in wheel speed at full reverse) on what is essentially a brand new machine.
#7
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I hate to say this but, “you’re the customer the dealers hate, because they will never be satisfied “. They do their best but, the customer thinks they know more than the dealer and tech and we will never be able to satisfy them. Glad I’m now retired, but still see them and now can refuse service.
#8
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
The return to neutral is not correct on side that is moving while sitting, and needs to be adjusted. Why the dealer didn’t set this correctly while it was there does not make sense. I say bring it back again and get it adjusted or you will be dealing with this for years to come.Thank you both for your responses.
I actually got a call from the dealership last night and they said that Ariens sent them two new linkages to replace the ones that were installed on the machine from the factory. These would be the mechanical linkages between the drive control levers and the control arms on the transmissions. Once the new linkages were installed and re-adjusted, they were able to get the machine to track straight in reverse with both control levers pulled back all the way.
The only issue that I am having now is that the machine is able to move while the brake is set. I noticed this when I started the mower when I got home from picking it up today. As soon as I started the mower it starting turning to the left. When I disengaged the parking brake and moved the machine with the control levers it moved as expected but then when I put the brake on again, it started moving slowly to the left.
I drove the mower off of my trailer, which was on a slight angle and it did not appear to move when the brake was engaged, but if I set the brake and pulled back on the left control levers the machine will move to the left and then stops on its own. At that point it will not move any more, which seems as if the brake is finally "catching." If I disengage the parking brake and set it again immediately, it will allow movement again until it stops.
I am quite certain that this is a result of the parts that were just replaced and can be fixed with an adjustment, but this is ridiculous. I have 2.2 hours on my machine, 1 of which was from time spent at the dealership, and it is now going back for the second time in two weeks.
#10
B
bertsmobile1
drive the mower 15 to 30 minutes at full throttle to get both boxes at full operation temperature.
On a SOLID surface ( concrete or bitumen ) push bars full forward and travel 30'
Go full reverse for the 30' and you should stop no more than 2' left or right of where you started .
In the early days ZTRs had forward & reverse adjustments because it was spring loaded in both directions so you could adjust spring tension to get them close .
It takes hours and to do and if you take too long then one side cools down and you have to go back to the start again.
Now that ZTRs are common place and cost cutting is the name of the game most have nothing more but a maximum stop and one adjustment to take the slop out of the linkages
B
bertsmobile1
Factory spec is to blow tyres up to the exact correct pressure .Perfect to me is simply tracking straight when the levers are pushed forward to the stops or pulled backwards to the stops. I probably wouldn't have even noticed that it didn't track straight in reverse if it wasn't for the fact that the right side was so much weaker than the left side. It was pulling so much to that side in reverse that I could have probably made a full circle in a two car wide driveway in full reverse on both levers. Taking it in to have the adjustments made, I just wasn't too thrilled with a technician telling me that they "have done all that they can do" and that "hydrostatitics will never be perfect."
I really wasn't trying to be nit picky but once I was "tuned" into the problem, I wasn't willing to accept anything but perfect (no noticeable difference in wheel speed at full reverse) on what is essentially a brand new machine.
drive the mower 15 to 30 minutes at full throttle to get both boxes at full operation temperature.
On a SOLID surface ( concrete or bitumen ) push bars full forward and travel 30'
Go full reverse for the 30' and you should stop no more than 2' left or right of where you started .
In the early days ZTRs had forward & reverse adjustments because it was spring loaded in both directions so you could adjust spring tension to get them close .
It takes hours and to do and if you take too long then one side cools down and you have to go back to the start again.
Now that ZTRs are common place and cost cutting is the name of the game most have nothing more but a maximum stop and one adjustment to take the slop out of the linkages
#11
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
I ended up taking it back to the dealer, who will most definitely repair it. What they do with the mower after that really isn't my problem anymore.