Export thread

Argh! Briggs Recoil

#1

C

craig2

I have a Briggs 28B702 on an Exmark Metro 32". I had a ton of trouble with the original ball bearing recoil clutch mechanism. No matter what parts I replaced and type of oil I used, the clutch would jam up and mess up the recoil spring every couple of months of weekly mowing. After replacing every part and still having the same issue, I gave up and replaced the entire starter with a new one with retracting pawls. And now those plastic pawls are busted after a two month's worth of mowing.

Are there any Briggs recoil mechanisms that actually work for an engine this size? I can't keep fixing this!

Thanks!


#2

Fish

Fish

So you had to cut off the shaft for the pawl starter, I am assuming?


#3

C

craig2

Yes I did. That part threads into the crankshaft, so I didn't mind cutting it knowing I could replace it.


#4

Fish

Fish

craig2 said:
Yes I did. That part threads into the crankshaft, so I didn't mind cutting it knowing I could replace it.
Click to expand...

So you still have it?

Go back to the old style starter.


#5

C

craig2

I would have to order a new crankshaft extension to go back to the old style.

Thoughts on how to keep the clutch properly lubricated so that it doesn't jam up and eject the starter rope and mess up the spring? As noted in my first post, I've replaced every part and tried different oils, but every 2 months it was back to taking the whole thing apart again.


#6

Fish

Fish

craig2 said:
I would have to order a new crankshaft extension to go back to the old style.

Thoughts on how to keep the clutch properly lubricated so that it doesn't jam up and eject the starter rope and mess up the spring? As noted in my first post, I've replaced every part and tried different oils, but every 2 months it was back to taking the whole thing apart again.
Click to expand...

No oil is suppossed to be used. It just collects dirt.

So you removed the old crankshaft extension and threw it away?


#7

C

craig2

Old crankshaft extension had to be cut to make way for the new pawl cup.

I know there should be no oil where the ball bearings go, that just collects dirt and prevents clutch engagement. But shouldn't there be a small amount of oil on the crankshaft extension where it goes inside of the square part below? The crankshaft extension spins at 3600 rpm inside of the square part once the engine is started.

attachment.php

Attachments





#8

Fish

Fish

How can you install the crankshaft extension back on?


#9

Fish

Fish

Older shortblocks came with a threaded crankshaft extension, so it could be used on both version engine applications, but not meant to be able to use it on cut crankshafts.


#10

C

craig2

Right, I have a threaded crankcase extension which I cut. It's no problem to buy another one for $20.


#11

Fish

Fish

Why didn't you just un-screw it?


#12

C

craig2

The new recoil assembly came with a flywheel nut to thread onto the crankshaft extension, and that requires cutting the crankshaft extension. I could have purchased a bolt instead, but since this new recoil was going to solve all my problems there was no need to!

Anyway, I'll get a new crankshaft extension and go back to the old style clutch, the new style plastic pawls clearly aren't going to work.

So, no oil at all at the top of the crank extension? The Briggs manual calls for a drop or two of synthetic motor oil at that spot.


#13

tom3

tom3

I usually clean that extension with some steel wool, clean the bore, add a drop or two of oil, runs for years. Very unusual to have problems with that old style ball bearing recoil deal. Might look on Ebay for a package of those plastic pawls for the new starter, sometimes get them for cheap and have some on hand for the next time.


#14

C

craig2

Thanks, I will get the plastic pawls and retainer as well, just in case.

Definitely going to switch back to the old style clutch, it's a much more robust system. Once I purchase a new crank extension I'll have all new parts. I still don't know why I had issues with it. One thing I just thought of is to be sure of proper vertical alignment between the clutch and the recoil mech so there is no unnecessary sideways force causing friction and heat.


#15

B

bertsmobile1

When you get it together please put your camera on something solid then do a video of you pull starting.
Either there is a problem with your engine ( hydrolocking ? ) or with your technique.
Usually the only time some one has problems like yours it is caused by an engine that has problems so requires excessive cranking to start.


#16

Fish

Fish

Still not sure how he is going to re-attach the crankshaft extension....

Cutting off the crankshaft seems kind of final to me. Unless you run a first class machine shop....


#17

C

craig2

Fish: The crankshaft extension screws into the crank, part # 691779, pic below. I wouldn't have cut it if it was a permanent part of the crank! The updated replacement starter kit #693900 comes with instructions to cut part #691779 and use an included nut to fasten the flywheel.

Clipboard01.png

bertsmobile1: I don't think it's any harder to pull start than a FC420V I had previously, that is it takes a solid pull to start. I am careful to take up the slack in the rope first so I'm pulling solidly against the clutch and not slamming against it. The issue isn't the pull start, it is after it is running for a while, the clutch mech starts to bind on the shaft, causing the rope to push out of the starter and messing up the spring. This has occurred repeatedly, even after replacing the clutch, sanding the shaft with fine steel wool, using one or two drops of oil, and trying different oils (synthetic motor oil, ATF, light machine oil). I did just buy a new recoil assembly, new crank extension, and a new clutch, so will be putting all new parts in. If that doesn't take care of it I'm not sure what will.


#18

B

bertsmobile1

Interesting.
I can think of a couple of other reasons why this could be happening
1) bent or missaligned blower housing, had that happen on an old 8 Hp, A new blower housing fixed that .
2) bent crankshaft
3) worn top bush.

The latter was a tricky one as the engine cranked fine but would graunch when the blades were engaged.
Didn't end up diagnosing it till I pulled the belts off which took the lateral load off the crank after which I could wiggle it about .010" for & aft.


#19

Fish

Fish

craig2 said:
Fish: The crankshaft extension screws into the crank, part # 691779, pic below. I wouldn't have cut it if it was a permanent part of the crank! The updated replacement starter kit #693900 comes with instructions to cut part #691779 and use an included nut to fasten the flywheel.

View attachment 44222

bertsmobile1: I don't think it's any harder to pull start than a FC420V I had previously, that is it takes a solid pull to start. I am careful to take up the slack in the rope first so I'm pulling solidly against the clutch and not slamming against it. The issue isn't the pull start, it is after it is running for a while, the clutch mech starts to bind on the shaft, causing the rope to push out of the starter and messing up the spring. This has occurred repeatedly, even after replacing the clutch, sanding the shaft with fine steel wool, using one or two drops of oil, and trying different oils (synthetic motor oil, ATF, light machine oil). I did just buy a new recoil assembly, new crank extension, and a new clutch, so will be putting all new parts in. If that doesn't take care of it I'm not sure what will.
Click to expand...

Yes, how can one "easily" install this extension? Drill and tap a hole "on center" in your crankshaft?
Not trying to give you a hard time, just am curious.


#20

Fish

Fish

The old replacement shortblocks came with these extensions, so your block would match the style starter on your old engine block. If your engine had the old style, you could just thread the extention in.


#21

C

craig2

Correct, my crankshaft is threaded already.

bertsmobile1: those are good ideas, will take the belt off, check for play top and bottom, and spin it manually to see if there is any wobble. I might just see if I can find a top shroud. It's not hard to imagine that getting bent or distorted.


#22

Fish

Fish

Then why did you cut it?


#23

Fish

Fish

So originally this engine had no pull starter at all, and someone tried to add one. Does the flywheel have starter gear teeth?


#24

C

craig2

The engine came with pull start, there are no flywheel gear teeth. Can't tell you why Briggs went with a threaded crankshaft and extension. If you look at the IPL for this engine it shows the threaded extension, so was stock for this engine.

As to why I cut it, see posts 12 & 17.

I already have a new crankshaft extension in-hand, so this is a non-issue.


#25

C

craig2

All parts came in and went through this process:
  • Remove belts and checked for crankshaft play. None radially, just a little axially.
  • Install shroud and check for alignment of the top opening and the flywheel. Spot on.
  • Remove shroud, install new recoil on shroud.
  • Install crank extension.
  • Put a drop of oil on shaft, then install clutch.
  • Install shroud.
  • Check for smooth operation with sparkplug removed.
  • Reinstall sparkplug.

It starts and runs properly, so we'll see how it goes. When I had trouble previously, it was after several hours of operation.

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions!


#26

T

Tinkerer200

craig2 said:
All parts came in and went through this process:
  • Remove belts and checked for crankshaft play. None radially, just a little axially.
  • Install shroud and check for alignment of the top opening and the flywheel. Spot on.
  • Remove shroud, install new recoil on shroud.
  • Install crank extension.
  • Put a drop of oil on shaft, then install clutch.
  • Install shroud.
  • Check for smooth operation with sparkplug removed.
  • Reinstall sparkplug.

It starts and runs properly, so we'll see how it goes. When I had trouble previously, it was after several hours of operation.

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions!
Click to expand...

I generally put a few drops of oil directly into the felt pad which should be in the top of the ratchet spool before installing assembly. That is what the little hole in top is for but I put it inside before installing. Be sure extension is polished. Since you have a new one, should be no problem.

Fish has lost out on the fact that B&S has been using crankshafts for sometime which are drilled and threaded to take an extension for a recoil if used and a stud if no recoil is used. One crankshaft is used for both, recoil start and non recoil start.

Walt Conner


#27

Fish

Fish

Yeah, I have been out of things for a while. Back in the day, only shortblocks came with the removable shaft, as that was the era when the other style starters were becoming the standard.


#28

Fish

Fish

And most engines of that size came with electric start, and no pull start. Snappers were known to have both, and walk behind commercial mowers.


Footer Links 1

Top