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my 1980 111's alternator is not working it puts out 12.4 volts while running and that's not enough. i have a wiring diagram but it doesn't tell me how to check the charging system or where the diode is. help...

And without knowing what engine you have neither do we.

it was a 11hp briggs and was repowered to a 12.5 hp briggs:smile:

Bert is politely trying to tell you we are not standing in your yard, looking at your unit, while drinking one of your cold beers. We are located all over the world and if you want our help you must paint us a very detailed picture of what you are looking at. We work on hundreds of different units and engines, but can't see what you have. We need your units model and serial numbers, and the engine's model, type and code numbers in order to help you. Bert, I hope I didn't misspeak when I said drinking a beer.

Rivets said:

Bert is politely trying to tell you we are not standing in your yard, looking at your unit, while drinking one of your cold beers. We are located all over the world and if you want our help you must paint us a very detailed picture of what you are looking at. We work on hundreds of different units and engines, but can't see what you have. We need your units model and serial numbers, and the engine's model, type and code numbers in order to help you. Bert, I hope I didn't misspeak when I said drinking a beer.

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Well I would rather a nice shriaz at the proper cellar temperature but a beer will do just so long as it is some one elses we are drinking.
Although I never drink during working hours, too many mower mechanics missing a digit or two.

We weren't working, just standing in the yard looking at it.

it is a 1980 john deere 111 it has a 12.5 hp flat head motor on it. while it is running at 3/4 throttle it charges at 12.4 volts. i cannot tell how it does without getting off the seat because the only thing that draws electricity is the electric clutch because it has a magneto ign. and once the battery is charged from starting it really has no draw unless i engage the electric clutch then it should go up in voltage to at least 13 volts but it doesn't go any higher than 12.4. i do not drink beer,if you want to that's fine. but it would explain why your stuff breaks down all the time. less time standing around drinking and more time doing preventive maintenance.:laughing:

It is a problem with the Spagforth Mk IV smokmaker engine.
The electricity smoke is plumbed directly into the exhaust smoke as the engineers thought if the smoke was not allowed to escape from the wires it would prevent the battery ever going flat.

Bert, Rivets ......... You guys need to team up , I nearly split my staples open laughing so hard after reading your comments here !!!

headschratcher said:

it is a 1980 john deere 111 it has a 12.5 hp flat head motor on it. while it is running at 3/4 throttle it charges at 12.4 volts. i cannot tell how it does without getting off the seat because the only thing that draws electricity is the electric clutch because it has a magneto ign. and once the battery is charged from starting it really has no draw unless i engage the electric clutch then it should go up in voltage to at least 13 volts but it doesn't go any higher than 12.4. i do not drink beer,if you want to that's fine. but it would explain why your stuff breaks down all the time. less time standing around drinking and more time doing preventive maintenance.:laughing:

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12.5 flathead ... WHAT ?? .....
they need the type & code numbers
See example ...

Don't really need the family of the engine ...Remember ........ these fella's are TRYING to help YOU !!!
getting sarcastic about the situation will most likely have you to look for help elsewhere !!

Is your flat head engine a Kohler, B & S, Tecumseh, Wisconsin Robin, Sachs, Kawasaki, Chevy, Ford or something else. We need the model and serial numbers to help you out. Each manufacturer uses a different setup for their charging systems and some even use different systems for the same engine. You think that we should be able to help you with the limited info you provide, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Bert and I have years of experience working on small engines, but our ESP and long range visualization is not what it used to be. We can't see what you are talking about, nor do we know your mechanical and electrical troubleshooting skills to lead you by the hand to a solution. We do know that 99% of small engines do not have an alternator, but use a stator and voltage regulator or a stator and diode rectifier to produce both AC and DC current, depending on the needs of the unit. You came to this forum trying to either learn about small engine repair or to get free help in solving a problem. Bert and I are here to help those who are willing to listen and follow directions. We gladly supply information, at no charge, when we are given the information needed to solve a problem. You are the one that came here looking for a solution, but now you just want to kill the messenger because you don't know how to supply the info we request. If you know more than we do and don't want to listen to us, it is your option, but replying as you do will not only cause us to leave and will also tell other service techs to stay away. Bert, this one is all your's, as I'm done wasting my time and suggest the OP just go out and purchase a new unit.

so the preinstalled smoke from the factory might have escaped. do they have a kit to reinstall the smoke? i know on my neighbor car we had to buy the kit .it installed in the fuse box and was kinda expensive.

AHHhhh Wellll ...

There ya go Mr. ATTITUDE ... just had to be a SARCASTIC "child of un-wed parents"
(in the ol days the terminology was better known as a "Bass-turd" ..yes it's spelled wrong, but the meaning isn't !)

Now it look's as though you'll be scratching your "arse" instead of your head looking for help !! ..:mur:

well my parents are married not sure if they were when i was concieved that's their problem not mine,i'm preaty sure they were though. i thought i told you it was a briggs and stratton model 286207 type4526-e1 code 981002zd it is a 12.5 hp on a john deere 111 i found my boo on briggs and stratton but it shows about a dozen or more stattors i just have to determine which onemine has two wires going into one terminal. you can be the most obtuse person you want i've heard it vall and i don't let it bother me.

For the record, you did not mention the engine specifics prior to your last post. Also, I'm pretty sure you made a typo as a 286207 would be a Horizontal shaft engine, not a vertical shaft one. I suspect perhaps you meant 286707. Let's assume that for the moment. The issue is whether the person who re-powered the unit with the new 12.5hp engine got one with the same type of stator(or alternator) as the 11hp had. I'm fairly certain your 111 probably used a DC Only type alternator, and it would have had a single red lead coming from it to a connector. The rectification diode is encased in the connector assembly. That red wire would then go to the solenoid. When you test a DC Only type alternator, you do so by measuring the output current, not voltage.

So... exactly how many and what color(s) are the wires coming from your alternator? If it's one red one, then it's likely the same type as the original 11hp had. You mention something about two into one but that's a bit confusing. You can identify which alternator is in your engine by the color and number of wires coming from it which is why I'm asking. Briggs is pretty good about that. Also for the record, there are likely only 4 alternator choices for your engine, not a dozen or more.

Even if your current alternator is not the same as the original 11hp alternator, you're not automatically dead in the water. But that's putting the cart before the horse.

Telesis ..your "cool head" shall prevail... This chart might help to explain and clear things up in regards to the alternator issue , ...Boobala

http://www4.briggsandstratton.com/miscpdfs/RNT/alternator_id.pdf

Just ran across this ... more info.

http://www.promotor.fi/galleria/alternator_replacement.pdf

It gets real tedious trying to extract teeth in order to get the information we need to try & diagnose your problems in my case from 1/2 way around the world away.

So to star what is the standing voltage ( engine not going )
What is the running voltage ( engine running , nothing turned on )
what is the voltage with the PTO engaged ?.

Next unless the DO upgraded the charging system I seriously doubt that the fitted system would be enough to run an electric clutch .
It would be fairly rare to find an electric clutch on a 12 Hp engine, they just don't have the balls to spin the blades, move the mower, power the clutch & recharge the battery.
Check the connection from your stator according to the chart Boob posted a link to.
Remember the system has 2 parts, the stator & the rotor.
A lot of clowns put the higher output stators in but run them in a low output flywheel.
The second book has very detailed instructions how to check the output from the various different stators.
The only service you can do to the stator is to remove the ground connection ( under one of the mounting bolts ) and clean it and of course replace the diode.
If doing the latter you need a big soldering iron to heat the wire very fast as the diode is easily damaged if it gets too hot.

Boobala, those are two excellent resources I didn't have in my library! Thanks for sharing!

Berts, interestingly enough if I wasn't looking at the wiring diagram for a 111, and the IPL for the engine, I would have concluded the same thing. Hard to believe the 2-4 amp DC unregulated alternator would have enough umph to run the clutch AND charge the battery! Who would have thunk it?!?:smile:

My '94 Cub Cadet only has 14 hp and it has an electric clutch. IIRC, the 2000 series Cub Cadets went as low as 12.5 hp and had electric clutches.

Telesis said:

Boobala, those are two excellent resources I didn't have in my library! Thanks for sharing!

Berts, interestingly enough if I wasn't looking at the wiring diagram for a 111, and the IPL for the engine, I would have concluded the same thing. Hard to believe the 2-4 amp DC unregulated alternator would have enough umph to run the clutch AND charge the battery! Who would have thunk it?!?:smile:

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Not me obviously.
I can not remember anything under 14 Hp with an electric clutch and eve then when you engage it the engine virtually stalls and takes a while to come back up to speed unless the battery is fully charged before you start.
But like most here I am on the forum to learn so the brain has just got a little heavier.

I engage the clutch on the 14 hp Cub Cadet at very low speed, then throttle up to operating rpm. In fact, it will start the mower turning at IDLE, if the engine is warm. I may be wrong, but I think the additional drag on the engine from amperage used to engage the clutch is minimal compared to what it takes to turn the mower itself.

JD 111 original Briggs has an electric clutch.

Mcostello, this thread is 2 years old. I suggest you start a new thread and give us a lot more info on your engine and your problem if you are looking for help.