A mess of a Briggs engine

[smhardesty]

I had a customer bring me a Yardman push mower early this morning. It's kind of a strange deal. The guy is 85 years old. He is in the process of moving into his dad's house here in town. He said his dad mowed the yard until 6 years ago. Apparently the dad has just passed on recently which is why he is moving to town to move into his dad's house. The guy said he would REALLY like to get this mower running because it was his dad's. I do understand the nostalgia thing, but I don't necessarily think getting a Yardman mower running again is the kind of thing to be overly nostalgic about. I ran the date code and this thing was built February 22, 2000. It is almost exactly 23 years old. The first step was hitting the thing with a pressure washer to get it clean enough to even start removing pieces.

You guys can lend your opinions, but I'm prepared to do everything in my power to convince the guy to NOT pay me to go any further. I have two mowers that each have only run one season. The things are like new. I've got one priced at $110 and the other at $125. I have room to dicker, so I could easily get him into one of those two for a flat hundred bucks.

The first photo is what I found in the carb bowl. That crap in the bottom is like a slimy piece of bacon. When I dumped what little fuel was still in the tank, it ran out like hot pancake syrup and was just about that color. I haven't bothered cleaning the tank and hope I don't have to. I believe what is in the tank and in the bowl is the result of ethanol blended fuel sitting for 6 years. Of course, every gasket I ran across in the carb is now torn and crumbling in pieces.

The second photo shows that one side of the coil apparently slipped sometime in the past and has been rubbing the flywheel. Then, the last photo is of the scoring on the flywheel. There are a whole host of other problems. The rubber breather tube is toast, the fuel line is rotten, one wheel is broken and there is NO WAY I'll find a new one. The oil is closer to being a 50/50 mix of oil and gas. And then there is some sort of problem with the engine break. It's locked open and won't let the break lose to grab the flywheel or ground the engine out. I never even looked at what that problem is.

So, since I'm just getting back into this whole business again, I'll ask. Would you guys fix this POS?

 

[Rivets]

I don’t think the coil moved, just think the marks you see are caused by garbage getting caught between the flywheel and coil. What would I do with it would depend on my relationship with the customer. Good friend and repeat customer, blow off the unit, check air gap and clean carb. If it runs tell the customer you have gotten it to where it runs and your recommendation is to not stick any more money in it. Doesn’t run, tell him it’s not worth repairing. Friends and repeat customers know you are shooting straight. First time customer or one you doubt will be back, different story. Work up an estimate, which as we all know will far exceed value of the unit. Present it to the customer, making sure there is no guarantee that repairs will solve any future problems. If he still wants it repaired tell him that you will need a minute of 50% of the estimate before you do any more work on the unit. Repeat customer will test you, second customer will think you’re trying to rip him off and take the unit back as is. I’d rather lose a customer than a friend, which has happened, but at my age still have more work than my better half wants me to work on at my age.

 

[Hammermechanicman]

I believe the marks on the flywheel are from the engine brake which is normal.

 

[smhardesty]

I don’t think the coil moved, just think the marks you see are caused by garbage getting caught between the flywheel and coil. What would I do with it would depend on my relationship with the customer. Good friend and repeat customer, blow off the unit, check air gap and clean carb. If it runs tell the customer you have gotten it to where it runs and your recommendation is to not stick any more money in it. Doesn’t run, tell him it’s not worth repairing. Friends and repeat customers know you are shooting straight. First time customer or one you doubt will be back, different story. Work up an estimate, which as we all know will far exceed value of the unit. Present it to the customer, making sure there is no guarantee that repairs will solve any future problems. If he still wants it repaired tell him that you will need a minute of 50% of the estimate before you do any more work on the unit. Repeat customer will test you, second customer will think you’re trying to rip him off and take the unit back as is. I’d rather lose a customer than a friend, which has happened, but at my age still have more work than my better half wants me to work on at my age.

OK. That's kind of where I am with him. I have never met this man before in my life. I have no real reason to treat him any differently than anyone else at this point. He might very well BECOME a repeat customer, but at this point, this is the first I have seen of him or his mower. I called and left a message on his cell phone just a few minutes ago. What I told him was that I don't see this thing being repaired for any less than $75 to $100 and if I can't get all the crud out of the carb, it'll be an additional $55 for the new carb. I then included telling him that, depending on how everythihg goes, I could easliy have $200 or more in it and it would then be a $50 that cost him $200. The carb is REALLY full of all that slimy brown carp, and all the gaskets are toast. Not only that, but there are several places on the carb that appear to have a type of deep corrosion. I tried gently scraping at one small patch of the stuff and it's not going to come off easily. That's why I'm making sure he knows the carb might need completely replaced instead of just rebuilt.

My contractor was here and kept popping in and out of the garage. I have a great relationship with him so he kept stopping to see what I had uncovered. At one point, he looked at me and asked, "Why are you even screwing with this thing?" It was a legitimate question. I told him that if someone had GIVEN the thing to me, I wouldn't even consider trying to refurb it for resell. I try and make every piece of equipment I offer for sale as close to tip top condition as possible. To put this thing in tip top condition would cost me twice what I could get out of it.

So, I guess I kind of did what you suggested before I read this post of yours. It's in the customer's hands now. If he is willing to put $100 to $200 in a $50 mower, I won't refuse him, I guess.

 

[smhardesty]

I believe the marks on the flywheel are from the engine brake which is normal.

That was what I first thought, but it's not from the brake. The brake is frozen wide open, as far away from the flywheel as possible. While I didn't dive into what the problem is, I did notice that the brake has not been working for a LONG time. I haven't even tried loosening the screws on the coil, but I did try and put a feeler gauge between the coil and the flywheel. I didn't try forcing it in there. I just kept moving a size or two smaller and smaller and smaller. I was unable to get any of the gauges between the coil and the flywheel. Now, it may very well be that there is a whole lot of crud built up in between. I don't know for sure. It's kind of hard to see in that photo, but I took my fingernail and tried scraping some of the crud off the flywheel. I did that on the opposite side of the flywheel. After a good bit of the crud was removed, I found the score marks. Some of them are really pronounced, but most are fine marks that my fingernail just was able to feel.

I'm going to just wait for him to either call or come by and then we'll discuss what the cost might be. I guess I just hate seeing somebody put even a hundred bucks in a mower like this. Yeah, it's a Briggs engine, but it's sitting on a Yardman deck that is really rusted and one of the wheels is broken and will require a new one, if I can locate one. The carb rebuild kit is under 20 bucks, but a new carb is going to cost him over $50. Then, a new fuel line, new breather tube, air filter, spark plug, oil, one wheel, whatever is wrong with the brake, and other incidentals, plus a few dollars in my pocket and it's going to get kind of pricey on a 23 year old Yardman.

I just know that I'm not prepared to spend any more time on it until he makes the decision as to whether or not he wants to sink $100 plus on it. I know I never would.

 

[Tiger Small Engine]

That was what I first thought, but it's not from the brake. The brake is frozen wide open, as far away from the flywheel as possible. While I didn't dive into what the problem is, I did notice that the brake has not been working for a LONG time. I haven't even tried loosening the screws on the coil, but I did try and put a feeler gauge between the coil and the flywheel. I didn't try forcing it in there. I just kept moving a size or two smaller and smaller and smaller. I was unable to get any of the gauges between the coil and the flywheel. Now, it may very well be that there is a whole lot of crud built up in between. I don't know for sure. It's kind of hard to see in that photo, but I took my fingernail and tried scraping some of the crud off the flywheel. I did that on the opposite side of the flywheel. After a good bit of the crud was removed, I found the score marks. Some of them are really pronounced, but most are fine marks that my fingernail just was able to feel.

I'm going to just wait for him to either call or come by and then we'll discuss what the cost might be. I guess I just hate seeing somebody put even a hundred bucks in a mower like this. Yeah, it's a Briggs engine, but it's sitting on a Yardman deck that is really rusted and one of the wheels is broken and will require a new one, if I can locate one. The carb rebuild kit is under 20 bucks, but a new carb is going to cost him over $50. Then, a new fuel line, new breather tube, air filter, spark plug, oil, one wheel, whatever is wrong with the brake, and other incidentals, plus a few dollars in my pocket and it's going to get kind of pricey on a 23 year old Yardman.

I just know that I'm not prepared to spend any more time on it until he makes the decision as to whether or not he wants to sink $100 plus on it. I know I never would.

In a normal situation, in other words, a run of the mill Yardman push mower, and a customer with no emotional attachment, the repair cost exceeding the value, puts the kabosh on the repair. However, this crappy mower was his Dad’s and there are memories involved and respect. Think how nice the customer will feel while mowing with a repaired mower that used to be his Dad’s (or Son’s) . Sometimes feelings and emotions trump practical and costs. It is that simple. Keep lines of communication open with customer and make it happen.

 

[StarTech]

It possible someone just set the magneto too close. Just had a customer Saturday that did that along with the break off the tip of a torx bit the rocker lock screw. So close I was barely able to spin the flywheel. Reset and it was fine. But check the top crankshaft journal for excessive play.

The torx tip was another story if it weren't for the 1/16 carbide end mill and extractor. Still took 15 minutes to get it out. And I considered myself lucky that I got it out. It was jammed in pretty good.

As for the fuel related problem that what you get with all the fuel additives in our fuels. I have seen some that fuel bowls are completely fill with gelatin like stuff.

All you can do is take it one step at a time and clear up the problem you run into.

And yes I do have some customers that will spend more than the equipment is worth for similar reasons.

 

[smhardesty]

In a normal situation, in other words, a run of the mill Yardman push mower, and a customer with no emotional attachment, the repair cost exceeding the value, puts the kabosh on the repair. However, this crappy mower was his Dad’s and there are memories involved and respect. Think how nice the customer will feel while mowing with a repaired mower that used to be his Dad’s (or Son’s) . Sometimes feelings and emotions trump practical and costs. It is that simple. Keep lines of communication open with customer and make it happen.

Yeah, I do understand the whole nostalgia thing. I guess I'm just one of those guys that doesn't have those types of feelings, especially for something like a lawn mower. As you'll see below, the whole problem has been resolved. Not exactly as I expected.

It possible someone just set the magneto too close. Just had a customer Saturday that did that along with the break off the tip of a torx bit the rocker lock screw. So close I was barely able to spin the flywheel. Reset and it was fine. But check the top crankshaft journal for excessive play.

As I was thinking about this last night, I started thinking that there might have been a situation where the coil was set way too close to the flywheel, then dust, dirt, water, etc, etc, etc, might have built up just enough to start a problem. I guess there are probably a whole host of things that might have caused the problem.

As for the fuel related problem that what you get with all the fuel additives in our fuels. I have seen some that fuel bowls are completely fill with gelatin like stuff.

That's a good, descriptive term for what is in that carb. It really is like gelatin. The bad news is that it isn't just contained in the bottom of the bowl. That stuff is clinging to most of the carb. I have to agree that it is probably the result of additives, whether ethanol or some other thing.



BUT,,,,, the whole situation has been resolved. I had sent a Facebook message to the guy later yesterday afternoon explaining what I ran into and I included a link to where I had posted several photos of what I found. I then called his cellphone a little later last evening and left a detailed explanation of things and told him to either call or stop buy and we'd discuss what to do.

About an hour ago he called and said that he really didn't want to spend anywhere near $50 to get it running. Yeah, I'll admit it. I sat for several long seconds letting that comment rattle around in my pea brain. "Nowhere near $50"? Seriously? Ouch! I guess some people just don't stop to think about what materials and merchandise cost in today's world. After a few other comments, he finally said, "Well, I wonder what I'm going to do for a mower now." That kind of irked me. He had contacted me by responding to one of the mowers I have for sale on Facebook's Marketplace. He HAD to know I had mowers for sale. So, I finally said, "Well, I do have two, really nice mowers for sale. One is priced at $125 and the other is at only $110. Either one would make you a nice mower." Again, a little bit of amazement as he said, "I'm not sure I really want to pay that much for a lawn mower." OK, Chief. Go wander around at Lowe's, Menard's, and a few other places that sell mowers around here and let me know how that search for a new mower under $100 works out for you. LOL!

I'm not being overly critical of the guy. That's not my intent at all. I'm only saying that there are a lot of people out there that just don't have a firm grip on reality when it comes to prices. I'd absolutely LOVE to buy a new mower for under $100. Even more, I'd love to be able to sell new mowers for under $100. I'm getting old enough that certain things about the past are a little fuzzy as to exactly when they happened. Buying a new mower for under $100 is one of those things. I'm betting it's been 25 years or more.

Ahhh, well. He said he'd stop by this afternoon to see me and discuss these two mowers. I'm going to ATTEMPT to do everything I can to make a deal with him on one of these mowers. These two I have ready are just way too nice to take much less than $100. We're getting closer and closer to mowing season and I'm certain I can sell these two for $100 or more. I'll not take a beating on either one just to make this customer happy. I have way less than $100 in either of them, but that doesn't mean they aren't worth my asking prices.
.

 

[StarTech]

That what I call being in the '30's. Even in the 80's the price was higher for a restore job. Just charge him an inspection fee anyways, it took time to even get to this point.

 

[smhardesty]

That what I call being in the '30's. Even in the 80's the price was higher for a restore job. Just charge him an inspection fee anyways, it took time to even get to this point.

Yep. I agree 100%. And you can bet I'm going to charge him something. Even though I'm not trying to make a living doing this, my time is worth a little something. I work pretty slowly compared to a lot of you guys doing this full time, but I have to believe even you guys would have burned up an hour diagnosing the problem(s). I have no hourly rate since I do work slowly. I charge a flat fee for different things. I have never really settled on a fee for just a partial tear down and inspection to diagnose as many problems as I see. I'm thinking I need to get at least $25 or so for doing that. Again, I'm not even trying to pay bills. I'm keeping myself busy and making some pocket money.

He called back and asked me if I'd be interested in just keeping this thing for spare parts. I told him I really don't want it, but if he was unable to haul it off I'd go ahead and save a couple of handfuls of nuts, bolts, and screws and then I'd haul it away. There isn't anything else worth saving. I used to have several cans and jugs full of different types of fasteners, but when we moved into this house I decided to just toss all of that stuff. Yep, now every time I turn around I'm running to the local hardware store or parts store to buy a handful of something I need. Stupid mistake on my part.