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Might this still be a battery issue? It seems to me more like the starter gear is not catching / engaging, but could it be the battery, I have no tester and tried to jump with car to same no avail. Thanks

Whirls only, no starting action...did notice a catch/slug before cranking but then starting in the past. I have only owned weeks, has 360 cca battery, no date thingies were punched out on battery so do not know how old. Has always started.

PS - had just cranked and started minutes prior, I apologize for adding these last 2 add-ons / posts (thought may help).

Sounds like you have no engagement of starter to flywheel. Spin the flywheel about a 1/4 turn and try again. Try this 2-3 times. You could have a bad spot (teeth) on the flywheel allowing no engagement thus the whirring sound. You can also bang on the starter body with a plastic screwdriver handle, etc before/during starting in case the plunger is hung up. Just as a little precaution, pull the plug wires off first so that the engine does not start during this test. Report back. Do the tests with a fully charged battery.

ironron said:

Whirls only, no starting action...did notice a catch/slug before cranking but then starting in the past. I have only owned weeks, has 360 cca battery, no date thingies were punched out on battery so do not know how old. Has always started.

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Are you saying during this event, the engine hesitated to turn over but then did turn over and started? If so, the usual culprit is valves which need adjusting. This happens due to the internal compression release not working during start up. This is normally remedied with a valve adjustment.

No, to clarify, it has not started nor even turned over since the first whirling episode. I will try what you mentioned above and think that is what it is as well. I think the battery is fine as it had just started it 3 times over some minutes leading up to this all. It has done nothing but whirl since. Thanks for your time here by the way.

Tried and it now makes a spark on the black terminal of battery and just buzzes, no whirl...sounds like a dull buzzer sound of a game show buzzer. Spark and buzz, no whirl.

Barely tapped but must have ruined the magnets in the starter...now I cannot get the starter off to save me...what a moron I must be. Taken all kinds of bolts off and none allow starter to come off. Watched videos galore of people taken 2 bolts off in 2 minutes. I defy that to be the case for this one. 144v834h401 model of Yardman...18 hp Briggs 422777 model engine

Assuming the starter mounting bolts are removed along with any cables / wires, I can't see anything keeping it from removal unless the starter gear is jammed up into the flywheel. Not the crap out of it with a rubber mallet, wood, etc. Or gently pry on it. Believe me, we've all been through this kind of deal.

ironron said:

Tried and it now makes a spark on the black terminal of battery and just buzzes, no whirl...sounds like a dull buzzer sound of a game show buzzer. Spark and buzz, no whirl.

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" Makes a spark"

That means an electric arc is jumping a gap...thus a bad connection.

In addition to, check the battery connections for tightness. Loose terminals can arc.

Got starter out guys - thanks. Lotsa keen observations from all of you and appreciated. Connections on battery were good, arc from connection elsewhere was good thought though too (read that elsewhere as well). Starter was just hard to get out, tons to move out of the way first. Recessed bolt (meaning recessed in toward the motor) was near impossible to get to.

I have it all out now though and top of starter has issues like compromised plastic gear and some broken retainer washers/spring combo. I think needs rebuild kit which I will seek tomorrow since are $20 vs $80+ for new starter. I am a little apprehensive about re-install / getting it dialed in right (in sync) with flywheel. I will get some input from whomever I get the kit from, or if I take it to a guy to rebuild the top of it.

I need mower out of the way though-blocking garage and car as hydro relief valve does not release. Also wanted to let you all know checked starter with jumper cables and turns well, so hopefully I did not ruin the bottom half when took it apart. All the magnetics on springs down there look good though, and went back into place. My bro-in-law used toothpicks to hold apart until sliding it all back in - clever I thought.

Thanks again, still appreciate any feedback about re-install .. or even rebuilt kit vs new one entirely. Don't wanna spend 4 times the money, but also do not want to repeat any of this anytime soon - hehe.

Good deal. When removing the rear bolt, did you spin the flywheel around some until you came to that "underneath" recess (3" or so wide)? This provides a bit more room to work. If you end up getting a starter, make sure it's the full length heavy duty and not one of the short ones commonly found on the net. When the starter is installed, it will "sync" itself unless there are some other issues. Regarding the hydro relief valve, does the handle move and no free wheel, handles don't move, what?

I am seeking kit for starter, but if no luck today in immediate area, will have to go new (so thanks for input on larger vs shorter).

Yes Hydro relief goes into position, and cannot tell you how many times have had cover off to watch all those mechanisms, just does not allow pushing it backwards, despite brake being off, and despite any positioning of hydro lever.

I have wanted to tightened hydro lever up in general, because when going uphill, the hydro works it's way back toward neutral. I tried tightening the bolts and nut with the spring where it all comes together (by the scissors action), perhaps I need to tighten it some more (which was what I was about to do when the starter issue happened).

Sounds like starter needs replacing.

Re: 94 Yardman garden tractor whirls when trying to start NOW HAS BIG PROBLEM ...

Rebuilt with kit and started right up ... then started gushing oil everywhere. It never even dripped oil before. The one thing I can think of is that when I thought I was loosening a starter bolt, I was loosening a bolt that must go into the head. I figured it our very quickly and tightened it back up, making sure I did not over-tighten without a torque wrench and specs nearby. I suppose I could have cracked the head, but I have r&r'd those on cars before, and I also have never seen a head or head gasket leak like this. I did not even see where it is coming from, because it was getting dark and it shot oil out all over my car and in the garage, what a friggin' mess.

Now I am at a total loss as to what is wrong or what happened. I very mildly lifted on the flywheel cover to access the starter bolts (after taking a couple flywheel cover bolts out), that is it as far as how I could have influenced the damn engine to fall apart like this. I am so depressed about it all. It started up so easy and smooth, and sounded great, like it always has. The oil is coming from the right side as you are sitting on the mower, the started is on the left. I wondered if I pulled the oil fill tube out (it is on that right side) when I pulled on the flywheel cover (fill tube is attached to cover) but I do not think so.

I have seen plenty of cars with a leaking head gasket, nothing like this. Same with cracked heads and even blocks that did not shoot oil out like this. I have replaced starters on cars (a couple any way) and other things as reasonably straight-forward like alternators, and a friend of mine and I rebuilt an entire engine and it worked great with no problems for literally years. WHAT THE HELL MUST I HAVE DONE? I feel like the ultimate putz.

Wow. Just take a few breaths, chill, get back to it tomorrow in a fresh state of mind. If need be, clean the mess, run it, check the obvious and monitor the leaky area. As you probably well know, many times it's best to step back for a while and then start anew. Hey, the thing starts and runs!

Hi guys ... What's my worst case scenario if head gasket, cracked head, or continuing worse like the block (money-wise ... to have fixed by a shop)?

I saw they no longer make these model #422777 18 HP Briggs commercial "diamond cut" engines any more. This thing runs GREAT when is ok - powerful and smooth .. I would really hate to lose it. I do not even like the new pedal hydrostatic mowers (my brother-in-law just got one). I like this lever/handle hydro.

Plus I think this older one is better-built, heavier, sturdier (less likely to roll), and the guy who had it before me put a great heavy-duty front end on it. It also has the tractor tires, perfect for my really steep hills (traction up and down them).

My field is dangerous on regular riding/lawn tractors. I about killed myself a couple times on my old John Deere regular lawn tractor. It weighed 442, I think this Yard Man weighs over 700 lbs.

I also don't see the MTD garden tractors available any more, not even sure if they still make .. and just saw them earlier this summer.

Gotta fix this thing pretty much no matter, and wonder what someone will charge?

Anything beyond a used head / new gasket would not be cost effective. At that point I'd gamble on a used engine. Have you looked anymore for the leak?

I am that putz...the dip stick tube got displaced a little and even though that was my first thought, I could not see it. I am getting real old. It was amazing how much oil it could pump out with just a little opening. I fixed it today...and am sorry for wasting your guys' time. I appreciate all the input for sure.

I even tried to tightened the hydrostat, but to no avail. The spring where the linkage comes together I thought would tighten/give it more resistance (top and bottom nuts, with spring on underside nut). I just wanted it to stop sliding back toward neutral on hills. I can probably live with it.

Thanks again all.

Not a waste at all buddy. Glad it worked out and ditto for the leak.

ironron said:

I am that putz...the dip stick tube got displaced a little and even though that was my first thought, I could not see it. I am getting real old. It was amazing how much oil it could pump out with just a little opening. I fixed it today...and am sorry for wasting your guys' time. I appreciate all the input for sure.

I even tried to tightened the hydrostat, but to no avail. The spring where the linkage comes together I thought would tighten/give it more resistance (top and bottom nuts, with spring on underside nut). I just wanted it to stop sliding back toward neutral on hills. I can probably live with it.

Thanks again all.

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The dip sick grommet is a service replacement item, every 500 hours from memory.
They have a thread and screw in about two turns, only cost about $ 2.

My brother-in-law says it is mandatory that I torque the one bolt I loosened in the head to the correct specs and though I know he is right, I think the 21 yr old engine has some seeps and I don't wanna mess with it any more than I did when I thought it was one of the starter bolts. He is probably right, yet it sure scares me to mess with any of it any more than I already have.

ironron said:

My brother-in-law says it is mandatory that I torque the one bolt I loosened in the head to the correct specs and though I know he is right, I think the 21 yr old engine has some seeps and I don't wanna mess with it any more than I did when I thought it was one of the starter bolts. He is probably right, yet it sure scares me to mess with any of it any more than I already have.

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head bolts are a funny thing.
Your brother is both right & wrong.

To work properly all of the bolts much be the same torque.
The exact torque number is not as important as the calculator/computer generation like to think.
Anywhere from around 15 ft.lbs to 30 ft.lbs is usually fine.
Some engines like B & S inteks are a bit fussy but most non certified tension wrenches are +/- 10% of the reading so don't beat yourself up about the numbers.

However you really should undo all of them and retorque the head as per the tightening sequence shown into manual.
Thid will mean you will nead to undo all of them ( in the proper order ) about 1 to 2 turns then do them back up.
Best is to undo them all about 1/2 turn first then a full turn , just the same as doing them up in two or more stages.

20 years ago at the factory the heads would have been done up with a production line auto wrench and they were not all that accurate either.

This a hot topic amongst the motorcycle restorers and even after many have seen period footage of assemblers using nothing morre then an open ended wrench and "calibrated elbow" building up engines on the line they still argue verhimently over "correct" tensions.