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So I don't know if I have terrible luck but I have just had a failure on the 20 hp briggs I put on my mower less than 6 months ago...engine may have 5 hours on it. Over the weekend it started shaking so violently that it broke one of the engine mounts. I guess I will tear down the previous motor to learn how and if I can possibly fix it or the other one. (I replaced a 33M677 with a 33M877) Oil level is dead on full and clear (does not look dirty).

Sounds very frustrating indeed.

Did you get a warranty on the new one by chance?

so apparently I have 2 years parts an labor through any authorized briggs and stratton dealer... I guess I will be looking for one.

Just look up small engine repair in your local area, your bound to find someone who can help you with the warranty process.

What killed the last engine, a similar failure?

Homer1 said:

Just look up small engine repair in your local area, your bound to find someone who can help you with the warranty process.

What killed the last engine, a similar failure?

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So for the record, sorry I have not posted any followup. Both failures were identical, altho this last one has more damage since I had to get it inside my gate and it actually shook enough to break a motor mount flange. the 1st motor I was willing to blame on me... early on it must of had dirty fuel and the float stayed open and it filled the crankcase with fuel... I flushed the oil and replace the filter and added a fuel cut off switch. Mower from then on would smoke ever so slightly ... ran pretty well with the exception of a weird electrical gremlin that cropped up for a bit. Would not even try to start. that engine ran like that for a couple of years until something let loose and it shook violently. Replace the engine (smallenginewarehouse) and loved it... only mowed maybe 3 hours a month so not much use... mowing my front yard it started shaking exactly like the 1st motor! I have still not managed to get it worked on since I have had a way to get to the only dealer I found that would look at it. I would really like to know what the heck let go... if my health ever gets better I may still try and take the original engine apart. If I get it fixed or replaced... I do not want to do this every 6 months.

Shaking violently is usually a failure of the counterbalance.
Some are 2 pieces with a bolt holding both sides together.
Most of the bottom end failures I have come across are from this bolt coming loose or breaking all together.

When an engine over revs these are the first things to go , as all of the potential mower racers find out if they don't pull it out of the engine.
Generally it is 4000 prm then boom.

U-Haul, & let the warranty do the work.

bertsmobile1 said:

Shaking violently is usually a failure of the counterbalance.
Some are 2 pieces with a bolt holding both sides together.
Most of the bottom end failures I have come across are from this bolt coming loose or breaking all together.

When an engine over revs these are the first things to go , as all of the potential mower racers find out if they don't pull it out of the engine.
Generally it is 4000 rpm then boom.

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so Like I said I believed the 1st motor was on me with the stuck float and filling the crankcase... but it was set at whatever rpm it was set from new. This new one ran weird from the start where unless it was loaded... it did not fun at full throttle, one of the members here researched that for me and I was told to set the rpms to 3600, which when I looked back at that post I end up setting it at 3500. Would you say the possibility exists that I should have gone more conservative? maybe going from the 3200 to 3400 and see if the governor stopped kicking in?

I am going to try an arrange for warranty work, however I have a question... what would you think is the chance that one of the 20hp b&s vtwins would work? Like this one? http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/40N877-0003.html The only issue I see with it is, that I would have to buy a muffler or possibly adapt a muffler to it that would also work on my country clipper. I am wondering if it would last longer... possibly the life of the mower? I am really tired of dealing with eng issues! I love everything about this country clipper, the joystick steering , the flip up deck, it is perfect for my yard and my needs... if it will just stay running.

For a lil bit more you can go bigger HP and get the PRO series model.......

http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/44S777-0013.html

Boobala said:

For a lil bit more you can go bigger HP and get the PRO series model.......

http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/44S777-0013.html

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I like that one, would not have an issue paying more if warranty falls through. Thanks for the reply.

TX Rider do not tell the dealer you messed with the gov adjust they are gonna think you did the damage.....

Where at in Tx, you at ??

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:

TX Rider do not tell the dealer you messed with the gov adjust they are gonna think you did the damage.....

Where at in Tx, you at ??

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I am in the suburbs south of dallas tx. I lived in baton rouge in the 80's ...installing cash registers in national T grocery stores (and Delchamps). Made some wonderful friends down there.

I lived and owned a Lawn mower shop in Grosse Tete just west of Port Allen where the live Tigers are at Tiger truck stop from 89 till 98...... Now my shop is here in Eunice La.

I am from Abbeville La. originally and there was a Delchamps store there at one time till Mr. Delchamp died and so says his son BLEW all the money away when he got control of it... His son maybe have been one of the good customers in the movie Blow...... So sad ..........

Sad to say no more stores and they had very good prices.... Mr. Delchamps was from Mobile Al.

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:

I lived and owned a Lawn mower shop in Grosse Tete just west of Port Allen where the live Tigers are at Tiger truck stop from 89 till 98...... Now my shop is here in Eunice La.

I am from Abbeville La. originally and there was a Delchamps store there at one time till Mr. Delchamp died and so says his son BLEW all the money away when he got control of it... His son maybe have been one of the good customers in the movie Blow...... So sad ..........

Sad to say no more stores and they had very good prices.... Mr. Delchamps was from Mobile Al.

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Yes I liked Delchamps... I got to know the mgr in denham springs well. I also installed some computer systems for another company a few years later down in Morgan City. I will say once you make friends down there... you will never lose them.

So... As a follow-up, I have to quit bad mouthing my Briggs... Turned out the vibration was not the engine... It was the PTO! Some how the pin that keeps the PTO from turning got bent which let it spin on the shaft... It tore the wires loose and had I stopped it as soon as it happened, it would probably not hurt much. I feel pretty stupid, but will learn from it. I still may have to replace the eng and most likely the PTO as well.

Surly you only need to replace the engine pan......and the PTO.

I agree with Engine man........... Take everything off of the shaft of the engine and start it up... See if you have a vibration......

Then turn your shaft by hand and check to see if it's not bent....... All you might need is a sump cover..... Easy to change.....

I can look the part up for you if all is fine with the engine.........

Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!

Thanks for the info, as well as all your previous help. I'll let you know when I get that darn PTO off.

So checking the engine after getting the pto off will be a good thing because it occurred to me the pto could have bent the pin that kept it from rotating while it was vibrating so badly... I may have to cut the pto off... it usually just slides on an off. When I get it off I will report back!

fyi I have struck out completely on removing the pto... I think I am going to have to make some sort of puller to get it off. Very annoyed!

txzrider2 said:

fyi I have struck out completely on removing the pto... I think I am going to have to make some sort of puller to get it off. Very annoyed!

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Whoo hoo, success! Got the pully off... Bad news it still shakes...

I had to get a little creative... (hope this works to post a pic)

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:

I agree with Engine man........... Take everything off of the shaft of the engine and start it up... See if you have a vibration......

Then turn your shaft by hand and check to see if it's not bent....... All you might need is a sump cover..... Easy to change.....

I can look the part up for you if all is fine with the engine.........

Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!

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So is the sump cover the same on all the 20hp briggs ohv?

Did you get down to the bare naked shaft ????? Yes the 20 hp sumps are all the same, except for the ones with a filter

Oil that is Black Gold, Texas Tea........ LOL..........

so both my 20's have a filter... I will try and dissemble the older one ... will the bottom piece just come off?

What bottom piece ?? The shaft has to be naked and free of rust before you can get the sump cover off.........

If you have a piece of the clutch on the shaft then that needs to come off....... Then see if it vibrates........

Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:

What bottom piece ?? The shaft has to be naked and free of rust before you can get the sump cover off.........

If you have a piece of the clutch on the shaft then that needs to come off....... Then see if it vibrates........

Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!

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Did that, fired it back up w/o the pullys and pto... still vibrated. If I pull the sump cover off, will I be able to see the counter balance assy?

Yes you will...... You will see everything.......

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:

Yes you will...... You will see everything.......

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Thanks it looks like I will have to use some emery cloth to get the rust off before taking the old sump off... do not want to damage the seal if possible.

Don't worry about the seal, that will come in the gasket kit .....

So I have made the decision to go back with a vtwin and save this engine if it turns out to be repairable... It might be it does run ... just with lots of vibration. It looks like the biggest obstacle is going to be longer throttle and choke cables... I can find the choke cable and I have an oregon one on the way... throttle is turning into a pita since I dont have a pn for my mower with a vtwin... again it seems like I might have to get creative.

Just about every real mower repair shop keeps bulk bowden cable.
Measure how much longer the new one needs to be then take it to a mower shop and ask for one just like this but X inches longer
X= the distance too short to reach + 3" to allow you to fit the Z bend.

bertsmobile1 said:

Just about every real mower repair shop keeps bulk bowden cable.
Measure how much longer the new one needs to be then take it to a mower shop and ask for one just like this but X inches longer
X= the distance too short to reach + 3" to allow you to fit the Z bend.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info...

So the new vtwin engine is running... I still need to adjust the length of the throttle cable as it is too long and the mower is not going full throttle. It gets to about 3300, I was disappointed to learn it is a off brand engine... apparently the engine has been replaced previously on my bil's mower ... oh well I have my briggs to play with if this one dies... I hope to have the pto hooked up tonight and mowing! The engine does run incredibly smooth! Much smoother than any single cylinder I have ever had. Hoping to learn alot from the briggs!

new extreme pto installed and torqued... engine starts up and runs smooth and was half way through burnishing the pto when I ran out of gas. Hopefully will get some actual work done this weekend as well as relocating my trailer hitch to be a muffler protector! The vtwin muffler is different so I had to make some allowances for it. Plus some time soon I hope to have an answer to what happened to both of the 20hp briggs and may even be able to make one good one out of the 2 of them. Thanks again everyone for the help and advice. Most of us would have a hard time walking across the street with out the wonderful advice from folks like all of you here. I hope you all have a great 4th of July ... I know I will since this darn mower is running again!

Re: 6 months on my new motor and its broken! UPDATE!

Well the new eng. is still running great... which explains why something had to break... the new clutch started spinning when I hit the button to enable the blades... well you can guess that it did not go well for the wires to the new clutch. At 1st I thought well crap I must not have torqued that bolt enough and it allowed the clutch to slip down and off the pin. Nope apparently when the last issue happened it weakened the weld for the pin and it broke off! While it played heck with the wire harness from the clutch to the plug in the mower harness... it left enough I believe I can repair the wiring and reuse the clutch. It looks like I need to find a new way to attach a pin to stop the clutch from rotating tho'maybe something like I have seen on larger mowers where they have an arm going to the clutch. Anyway, as always I appreciate all the help given on this site and thought I would post this as a cautionary tale... if you have an electric pto... you have to make sure it cannot come loose!

Re: 6 months on my new motor and its broken! UPDATE!

txzrider2 said:

Well the new eng. is still running great... which explains why something had to break... the new clutch started spinning when I hit the button to enable the blades... well you can guess that it did not go well for the wires to the new clutch. At 1st I thought well crap I must not have torqued that bolt enough and it allowed the clutch to slip down and off the pin. Nope apparently when the last issue happened it weakened the weld for the pin and it broke off! While it played heck with the wire harness from the clutch to the plug in the mower harness... it left enough I believe I can repair the wiring and reuse the clutch. It looks like I need to find a new way to attach a pin to stop the clutch from rotating tho'maybe something like I have seen on larger mowers where they have an arm going to the clutch. Anyway, as always I appreciate all the help given on this site and thought I would post this as a cautionary tale... if you have an electric pto... you have to make sure it cannot come loose!

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Sorry to hear that,
So the new engine had a few too many ponies for the hitching rail ?
A bit of heavy angle iron from a salvage yard will be the go after some artistic work with your angle / die grinder.
The rod retainers are bent then hardened to stop them bending under the hammering they get from the clutch.
I have been caught out and found out the hard way that a retainer from a small engine does not cut it on a big twin.

I have made clutch stops using a piece of 3/8” flat stock. Figure the length down from the frame and the amount neede to be able to bolt it to the frame in 2 spots, to keep it from twisting. Put a right angle bend at that measurement down and drill a couple of holes in the section which will be bolted to the frame. It takes a bit of mcguyvering, but it can be done and you won’t break that size stock.

Thanks for the replies, yep I will need to get creative... the old "pin" was a pin welded to a 90 degree bracket that bolted to the bottom of the eng deck. the pin just stuck down enough to engage the slot in the clutch. Pretty sure I can come up with something to fix this. And yes the vtwin seems to have much more torque if only 2 more hp. And it is much smoother. I may have to find one to replace the single cyl 11hp yamaha in my golfcart! Be fun to find a way to keep it as quiet as the current motor but still have 22 hp and buckets of torque~!