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4502 Runs a short while and dies

#1

L

LawnBoy4502

Guys, I have a Lawn Boy 4502 with the F300 series engine, and a white plastic carburetor.

The engine will start usually within one or two pulls after priming (3 or 4 pushes on the primer bulb). Then I can cut the grass for about five or six minutes and then the engine begins to act as if it is running out of fuel - rpms rise and fall and then the mower will cut off.

I can prime it and sometimes it will restart, other times it will not. The float was replaced a while back, along with the float needle and valve. Also the fuel line was replaced and since the shut-off valve on the tank has a broken handle, I installed a HAK cut off valve.

I seem to remember it having this problem years ago, before I replaced the float, needle, and valve. I set the float level per the factory setting in the on-line manual: https://lookup3.toro.com/ttcGateway/...als/lball.html

I am using a 32:1 fuel mix and the engine doesn't seem to be running hot as sometimes after I get it to restart it will run for 30 or 45 minutes so I can finish the yard.

I have also replaced the coil (today) and are still having the same exact problem.

Thoughts?


#2

Russ2251

Russ2251

Verify that gas cap is vented and operational (not blocked or clogged).


#3

L

LawnBoy4502

Well, I switched gas caps and it seemed to help. So, I took out the black liner inside the gas cap and found a piece of something that was bouncing around in-between the vent hole and the black liner. It must have bounced up and clogged the vent hole every so often and that caused the shut down. I removed the debris and it runs fine now.

Thanks for the tip!


#4

Russ2251

Russ2251

prosper.jpg


#5

G

Got-to-be-old

Good job Russ.


#6

L

LawnBoy4502

and what is crazy is I followed the Trouble Shooting procedure:

https://lookup3.toro.com/ttcGateway/...ls/lball16.pdf

and I checked the vent hole in the gas cap (visual from the outside) and it wasn't restricted - who would have thought a piece of the inside of the cap itself could detach and bounce around enough to clog the vent hole.


#7

2smoked

2smoked

LawnBoy4502 said:
Well, I switched gas caps and it seemed to help. So, I took out the black liner inside the gas cap and found a piece of something that was bouncing around in-between the vent hole and the black liner. It must have bounced up and clogged the vent hole every so often and that caused the shut down. I removed the debris and it runs fine now.

Thanks for the tip!
Click to expand...

It’s no secret that I am a fan of vintage Lawn Boys. And one of the things that I like about them is that, problems with starting or running are most often caused by a small issue that is easily solved. Persistence and patience helps, along with thinking through the problem. It also helps that older Lawn Boys have a simple, no fancy frills design. It’s no wonder you still see some out there that are over 40 years old cutting away like the day they were purchased.

Just the other day, I had to dispose of something on the local scrap metal pile and couldn’t help but notice a brand X mower thrown on the heap. It looked to be very new-no more than three years old. What an example of our wasteful, throw-away society. On the way home, I couldn’t help but notice a homeowner cutting his grass with a nice looking old Lawn Boy that I know was at least 45 years old. I also noticed that he also had an early F engine model in the garage and I’ll bet it was a runner too.

My compliments to you for keeping yours up and running.


#8

L

LawnBoy4502

Thanks, I am a big fan of Lawn-Boys. I have two of them, both from the early 80's and they are now both working great! With both of them being over 37 years old, I get strange looks from my kids because I won't replace them with newer mowers.

I love the light weight of them both - easy to push and work the yard with. And to me, they are worth keeping as opposed to scrapping them out. No point in throwing away good equipment that does the job.

And honestly, I really enjoy the "peace" I get when I'm working on one of them - it's almost therapeutic.


#9

2smoked

2smoked

LawnBoy4502 said:
Thanks, I am a big fan of Lawn-Boys. I have two of them, both from the early 80's and they are now both working great! With both of them being over 37 years old, I get strange looks from my kids because I won't replace them with newer mowers.

I love the light weight of them both - easy to push and work the yard with. And to me, they are worth keeping as opposed to scrapping them out. No point in throwing away good equipment that does the job.

And honestly, I really enjoy the "peace" I get when I'm working on one of them - it's almost therapeutic.
Click to expand...

It’s not “almost” therapeautic. It IS therapeautic! You must be my twin.


#10

G

Got-to-be-old

Well said. You would not believe the looks I get. It's a Briggs engine but still a lawn boy to me. What I am so amazed and thankful is the amount of knowledge offered on this site and the men and women that provide it from all over the world. I cherish it.

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#11

2smoked

2smoked

Got-to-be-old said:
Well said. You would not believe the looks I get. It's a Briggs engine but still a lawn boy to me. What I am so amazed and thankful is the amount of knowledge offered on this site and the men and women that provide it from all over the world. I cherish it.
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That motor looks like a Briggs & Stratton 5s from the 1950’s. Last fall, a guy who gave me a bunch old Lawn Boy parts threw in one of those for free. I just got the thing running a few weeks ago. When I was a kid, you could find those stashed in the corner of someone’s garage. We used to tinker on them to get them going and use them to power home-made go-carts and minibikes. Fun times.


#12

G

Got-to-be-old

This engine is tag 6s but like you said fun little engines. You did not happen to get any spare parts for a LB reel mower? Very hard to find. Thanks.


#13

2smoked

2smoked

Got-to-be-old said:
This engine is tag 6s but like you said fun little engines. You did not happen to get any spare parts for a LB reel mower? Very hard to find. Thanks.
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I am not aware of Lawn Boy ever manufacturing a reel mower unless it was something very early. I know they did manufacture a rotary mower in the late 50’s - early 60’s that came with a Briggs vertical shaft engine.


#14

2smoked

2smoked

Here it is.

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#15

Russ2251

Russ2251

I am not aware of Lawn Boy ever manufacturing a reel mower unless it was something very early...
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lawn-boy reel.jpg


#16

L

LawnBoy4502

Wow, that is neat to see!


#17

B

bertsmobile1

And note that the mower was well & truely more than a weeks wages requiring it to be bought on terms.


#18

2smoked

2smoked

bertsmobile1 said:
And note that the mower was well & truely more than a weeks wages requiring it to be bought on terms.
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....and apparently operating it required you to dress formally. In other words, the clothes had to match the high price of the mower.

“Honey, did you starch my shirt and press my pants? I have to go and mow the yard right now.”


#19

G

Got-to-be-old

That has to be the first LB tag. Hand crank and all. Mine is 1948-49 with a little changes to the throttle and self propelled. Still a lot of engineering.


#20

L

LawnBoy4502

Got-to-be-old said:
That has to be the first LB tag. Hand crank and all. Mine is 1948-49 with a little changes to the throttle and self propelled. Still a lot of engineering.
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Do you have any pictures? It sounds pretty cool


#21

G

Got-to-be-old

LawnBoy4502 said:
Do you have any pictures? It sounds pretty cool
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These and what I posted in #10. I guess my mower is Evinrude series with self propell.

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#22

B

bertsmobile1

2smoked said:
....and apparently operating it required you to dress formally. In other words, the clothes had to match the high price of the mower.

“Honey, did you starch my shirt and press my pants? I have to go and mow the yard right now.”
Click to expand...

At least it did not feature a very well endowed "mum" who mows almost naked wearing high heeled sling backs.
The mower was not "high priced" it was reasonably priced for the amount of work that went into designing & making it.
Todays mowers are too cheap in more ways than just the price tag.


#23

G

Got-to-be-old

bertsmobile1 said:
At least it did not feature a very well endowed "mum" who mows almost naked wearing high heeled sling backs.
The mower was not "high priced" it was reasonably priced for the amount of work that went into designing & making it.
Todays mowers are too cheap in more ways than just the price tag.
Click to expand...

I hope with Trump's new tariffs, here in the US can go back to the well endowed mum and build them here. And get back to some quality. Hope so.


#24

B

bertsmobile1

Getting a bit off topic, but the import duties have nothing to do with it.
What is needed is a durability tax so that the longer the service life, the less tax is paid.
This levels the price disparity between junk & quality and provides the makers with an incentive to make better quality products.
Europe has one but it is called something different, from memory it is a disposal or recycling tax or something along that line.
In any case it would mean that Briggs / AYP / MTD could continue making junk and provide the government with a lot of money or make good stuff at a higher profit.

The real criminals are the Lowes / harbour Freight / Wallmart types of shops who demand cheaper prices from the factories than they can produce for.
The factories have no choice but to supply for that price because the retailers can just replace the local product with a fully imported cheaper product .
As the market sales volume is fairly well fixed every imported mower sold is one less local mower sold and right now the margins at the bottom end are so fine that a few thousand lost sales could push the factories into bankruptcy.

The problem is free market theory is based on some very highly flawed assumptions which is why it needs the government to step in with some moderations.
If you troll through these posts you will notice that Joe Public has less than no idea about how to compare & make a product selection on quality & durability grounds.
Thus the foundation premise of free market theory , "The market is well informed " is not true s "the market" does not have the understanding to be "well Informed"
Hence the only comparrison left to the market to base their decisions on is price & colour.
Thus whoever brings out the cheapest mower every season will outsell all others , so they get the volume production discounts and the others make a loss.


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