Export thread

This is my first post here,Im new to LMF...I recently purchased a used 4200 with the 31HP gas engine. I took a chance with this machine,and lost the roll of the dice,so I am in need of a replacement engine...these things are not easy to find...anyone know where i can find a ventrac spec engine either new or used running .I think its cheaper to put a 31hp turbo or 26.5hp NA diesel in it,but neither of these engines can match the torque,power,reliability or longevity of the 950G....so id rather stay with the gas engine in this case(and Im a diesel lover).....any help would be appreciated...

Sorry to hear that :thumbdown:
What happened that you need a replacement engine? Did it have a ton of hours on it or did the last owner not maintain it properly, because that engine is excellent.
I believe this is what you are looking for, but other than that I can't help you. Maybe try calling the factory or a few dealers in your area, maybe they picked up an extra one or two?
Ventrac Legendary 31HP GAS ENGINE COMPLETE Ready to Run | eBay

Good luck!

The machine I bought had its coolant neglected... somewhere along the line someone replaced antifreeze with water.... combine a new york winter and straight water... and let's just say the best engine in the world doesn't stand a chance.... I tore it down... right now I need a radiator, and more than likely a cylinder head, and a few freeze plugs... I'm not sure if I should try to make the repairs or play it safe and get a new engine .. this thing starts and runs perfect... these engines are very hard to find.. and the diesels are not nearly as reliable....btw machine has 500hrs on it,engine has around 100 hrs on it,its its 2nd engine already,first one was run with no oil drain plug until it locked up.

btw machine has 500hrs on it,engine has around 100 hrs on it,its its 2nd engine already,first one was run with no oil drain plug until it locked up.

Click to expand...

Jeez talk about neglect
I'm not very engine savy, but if you feel confident in what your doing on the engine, working with a good dealer and checking with Ventrac's service department directly may help you along! Great company to work with!

Im a Golf Course Superintendent/and the mechanic since were a small course,and I guess I take good care of my stuff because I rarely have a failure,even with my 20 plus yr old equipment...I cant afford new engines and machines,so its cheaper to maintain the ones we have.I am running mostly air cooled small engines 25hp and below,and I get 3000-5000hrs out of OHV Kohler Commands,Briggs Vanguards,and Diahatsu /Cushman engines easily and these things are worked hard...The shame is the Ventrac 31 Gas Daihatsu/Briggs should run 10000-15000 hrs if maintained with no problem..Ive never seen the design to life specs on a Ventrac spec 950 gas,but the 3600RPM genset version has a 20,000-40,000 hr life expectancy..so no reason to think the ventrac couldnt hit the low side of that number at least,depending on how it was run,and maintained....
I was going to repower with a Briggs diesel since they are plentiful,but have never seen a 26.5 diesel or a 3 1turbo diesel with more than 2000 hrs...im not saying they arent out there,but the few i know of have had one form of castastrophic engine failure between 500-2000 hrs..usually throwing a rod or engine runaway from injection pump issues...so im reluctant to go diesel...I have a perfect running kubota d1105e 28hp ,but its 2" too long to fit..or its be in there ,as kubotas are great diesels...

I think I saw one on Ebay

DonUp said:

I think I saw one on Ebay

Click to expand...

Thanks I seen that too,spoke with the owner,very nice guy,but i cant see spending 4200 by the time it gets here on a used engine with no warranty...his price is the same as full retail thru ventrac...I priced one locally,now trying to see if they can locate one for me,ill have a new crate engine under warranty..which i expect for $ 4000 on a 31hp gas engine...I can do a new NA 26.5 diesel cheaper,but they are not nearly as reliable an engine not to mention the power/torque differences will be night and day.The 31TD is not an option for me,so I didnt bother pricing one.

Ok I found a rebuildable core engine,a 31hp ,with about 400 on the clock,with a lower end noise...I am going to use whatever i need off it to repair mine.I think Im going to use the head on my block which seems to be fine other than some freeze plugs,I believe.Im getting it checked now...I was blowing coolant right out the muffler,so i believe the head gasket was bad and possibly the head cracked as well....If anyone wants ill post pics as I go....

Sure -- pictures are always good ! :biggrin: :thumbsup:

Here are a few i took of the old engine and the new head going on...found out the old engine has just 21hrs on it....makes me want to use the short block even more...first pic (head with exhaust manifold) is the one going on....the short block is the one from my machine....I may dissassemble the parts lower end and see whats wrong with it,the bores are clean....

this head is the one that came on my machine....i thought it may be cracked,but i dont think it is...I think the gasket was bad....but im not taking a chance.....another of my shortblock...

Good Pictures !

If the freeze plugs did what they were supposed to do - as long as it wasn't run dry - most of it should be OK !

With 2 engines you should be able to put together one perfect one. :biggrin: :thumbsup:

Is that carbon on one cylinder with only 21 hours or is that one that was used more ?

Both of my 4231s have been Gas - and the main reason I traded up was because I found out that Ventrac would not be using the Gas engine in future models because of EPA restrictions. I got one of the last Gas models that they produced. :biggrin:

That was actually the newer engine....Ive got things ready to go together now,just waiting on my head gasket and new aluminum upgraded radiator kit...it looks like i may have it running just in time..
To repair this engine was a hard decision for me.Im a diesel guy.I seriously thought about just going diesel but the briggs/diahatsu diesel is nothing next to the gas engine as far as power or reliability...the 31hp turbo has little torque which is odd,you would think it would be the opposite,the diesel would have more,esp down low,but thats not the case here...and these engines arent lasting,Ive seen cracked heads,and thrown rods well under 1000hrs...seen them more than i would like to admit....if i had to go diesel the 26.5HP is the engine to have,its much more reliable than the 31 turbo...The 2 engines i would have swapped in dont fit in the sizes i wanted,those are Kubota D1105,and Yanmar 3TN82 or 84. I could fit smaller engines in but who wants a 21hp "peak" diesel in one of these...i might have well bought a Steiner with a D722 or worse yet a D600! D722 is an honest 16hp engine continous...not enough.
.Ill put a few more pics up here....I am going to tear into the parts engine,its got a lower end knock....probably toasted a rod bearing...when im done ill sell off what i dont need to recoup some of my investment...parts are rare for the gas version since they never fail,there arent many old parts egnines laying around.I guess you run one with no oil and mow for half a day and they will eventually develope a knock,but it still ran...most engines would have seized in 20 minutes tops,it ran for several hours.

here are some from the engine bay and engine ready to go in,in not in order.

Parts short block...

Everything you say makes me glad I went with the Gas engine (my reason was that I have nothing else that is diesel and did not want to mess with finding and getting diesel when gas is more available).
Even people that work with all kinds of equipment all the time are impressed with the Ventrac when they see it work. :thumbsup:
I keep their brochures on the tractor and in both of my vehicles to hand out when anyone is interested. Gave out two yesterday when I was picking up lime and fertilizer.

Parts came in today.....it lives! What a great running engine....fired up and purrs like a kitten,she runs great from idle to 3600 and everywhere in between...I like mowing best between 2800-3000rpm...seems to be a sweet spot with it...I used it on and off about 45 minutes...time will tell if everything is good,so far so good no coolant loss and no leaks of any kind..Im going to drop the oil and filter in a few hours just because i had it apart,and same with coolant,going to flush it once i get a few hrs on it...compared to my steiners the ventrac seems smoother probably because it only has 516hrs on it,as opposed to 2200-12000 on the old steiners and the fact that its liquid cooled 3 cylinder...I like the controls on the ventrac better..just easier to operate.IMO.

Looks Good !

Always a good idea to flush and change oil and coolant after any rebuild !

I usually put some new oil in before I replace the drain plug (just to flush out most of the old oil left in the bottom of the oil pan). I don't understand why most drain pans don't have the plug positioned so ALL the old oil will drain !!! ??? I also usually place a good strong magnet on the pan near the plug and pull it off as it starts to drain.

BKBrown said:

Just for those that have the 4231 - FYI - if you don't use factory or Ventrac oil filters ---- make sure they are not longer (taller) than the factory filter. The lift arm for the front attachments will contact the filter when raised and cut or shear it and you will drop all your oil.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the tip....I'm.using the factory filter because my dealer says its worth the money ....I usually use wix in everything I own except my Dodge /Cummins ...I use fleet guard.

Well its been a few months now and the Ventracs been awesome! The 31 is very capable even cutting 8" tall grass down to 3" it rips right thru it...although it will suck fuel when cutting like that for hours...i had a problem with it running out of fuel when working hard over 3000rpm...it seemed to be fine when tank is full.. after about am hour of use it started...it would bog and die...letting it sit for 10 secs with key on refilled float bowl and it'd fire right back up...I replaced the filter with no change after checking the fuel line for kinks...and eventually put a napa universal 12v 3psi pump on it ..problem solved.

Sorry, it never actually ran out of fuel in the tank, just at the carburetor...I called my dealer and they told me a weak pump is a common issue on all L/C 4200s...and. that the universal Napa pump works great and they use them when there out of OEM pumps..I removed the stock pump and put the Napa in its place..

I'm surprised that Ventrac has not corrected the issue and used a different pump. Would it be a good idea to have one on hand (just in case) ?

I don't know how big of a deal it is... the pump got weak,it happens.. It certainly didn't stop me from mowing or using the machine... Initially I thought it was a filter or a tank venting issue... It forces you to be easy on it.... It gave you a warning it would start to miss and blubber. When you heard that you had to drop to idle and a quick shot of the choke.. And you would save having to restart it.

As long as you have it open, I would check everything I could think of and replace anything questionable. You sound like someone who will take care of it in the future, so it may be worth a little extra $$$ now and not worry if you should have done something more. One thing I would definitely do is blow out all the cooling passages in the block with both water and air. Bet you will find corrosion coming out. If it was run with water only, plugged passages are a definite possibilities.

Rivits the engines been together for about 2 months now,when i had it apart,I hung the engine upside down outside overngiht to drain it,then took it outside with the FEL on the tractor,hung it from the front end loader,and hot water powerwashed the blocks coolant passages,popped the freeze plugs and rodded out all the steam holes on the deck.i found one passage plugged otherwise there was just a lot of rusty sediment and some light surface rust,which i wire brushed from the access i got by having out the freeze plugs.After reassembly,once i had it running i ran it on straight water for an hour,used it at operating temp and rpm,flushed it(it was suprisingly clean,filled with water again,and ran that 45 minutes,flushed it,and added antifreeze/water to -34 degrees....its been absolutely fine.

Sorry, didn't realize that, don't do any of the things I said. Blame it on old age and the heat.

No problem man ... So far so good with the machine and the engine.

BKBrown said:

I'm surprised that Ventrac has not corrected the issue and used a different pump. Would it be a good idea to have one on hand (just in case) ?

Click to expand...

I was at my dealer on friday,and asked about the pump issue..his answer was that since our fuel had 10% ethanol added to it a few years ago when MTBE was banned,the fuel pump problems started shortly after...He said the older machines that had a lot of hours on them seemed to make the transistion fine,as they had some wear already,however the newer machines experienced alot of pump failures.He said this isnt a Ventrac only problem,and the pump on the Ventrac is of good quality,the fuels today are just destroying pumps,lines,and carburators especially when you let the machines sit...I guess this is why the gasoline powered machines have higher failure rates,at least the pumps are under 50 bucks and not to bad to change.

Don't they know that ethanol eats rubber and many plastics ???
I wonder if the Sta-Bil (Marine formula & now a specific ethanol formula) will slow or stop the damage ?

Corn is for eating - by both human and animal -- another Gobmnt rule and subsidy ! :thumbdown:
Some say it makes good moonshine ! :biggrin:

Hi - I thought I would jump into this conversation. Full disclosure - I work for Gold Eagle Co. the makers of STA-BIL. I hope this information helps. This information came directly from the product manager for STA-BIL. For trademark reasons, we need to include the registered mark when referencing our products.

Unfortunately, there is NO additive, including STA-BILｮ products that can protect RUBBER and PLASTIC parts that are not already designed for exposure to Ethanol in gasoline. However, STA-BILｮ products WILL protect and prevent other issues, such as corrosion on METAL parts of the fuel system. We recommend using STA-BILｮ Ethanol Treatment at every fill up on all of your gasoline small engines (lawnmowers, string trimmers, etc) . It will also help clean out your fuel system, removing deposits that have accumulated on the carburetor, fuel injectors or intake valves.

Again - Hope this information helps.

Regards,

Jennifer Rook
Gold Eagle Co.

I use the Marine Formula in all my gas that is used on small engines - I just put it in the 5 Gal. can before going to the gas station. I haven't been able to find the Ethanol treatment formula in the local stores yet !

I haven't used the Marine formula in the car and truck regularly, but do add it periodically. Would it be prudent to add all the time ?

Marine Formula STA-BIL is absolutely safe to use in your small engines, or other gasoline powered vehicles, although using the non-marine Ethanol Treatment version would be effective as well. The Marine Formula has additional corrosion protection and cleaners, that are needed for those vehicles/equipment used in more moisture-laden environments (i.e. on or around water). Whichever Ethanol treatment product you use, be sure to use it with every fill up in your small engines and marine engines, as they are more prone to moisture /condensation and corrosion issues (due to their open vented gas tanks). It's ideal to use the Ethanol treatment in your every-day driving vehicle (car or truck) as well, to address any moisture issues you may already have, and to clean your fuel system regularly, but it's not as crucial for those to use at every fill up as you should with your small engines and marine equipment. For future purchases, you should be able to find the non-marine version of STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment in most AutoZones and Advance stores. Hope this information helps!

Regards,

Jennifer

Thanks, I wish I could find it in a case of 12 - the best price I have found is the
32 Oz. bottle at Tractor Supply and use it in every 5 Gal. can that I fill up.

I finally found out what the real problem was with my fuel supply on my Ventrac.. After installing a new pump it seems to work fine for the first hour or so then I began to have fuel starvation problems again. I ended up having to remove the fuel tank.. the fuel fitting exiting tank..not sure if it was done at the factory or buy a dealer,the angle was wrong forcing the fuel line to kink about 90 percent closed. I don't know how it even ran above idle but it did... I can see Allen wrench marks on the bolts so I believe it was likely done by a dealer or owner... This machine has been a work in progress... Eventually ill get it 100 percent... If the average Joe bought it he'd spent thousands at the dealer by now or traded it in...,

Glad you found the root cause of your fuel issue. :smile:

Who would expect to find a kinked line ? There must have been some reason for someone to have removed the tank before. How old did you say this machine is ?

Why would anyone change the angle of the fittings unless they had to be removed ????? The only reason I could think of to take the tank out would be if it got an excess of dirt or something inside the tank and it needed to be cleaned out.

Glad that was the problem, but sorry you had so much frustration before finding the problem !

I just hit 200 hours on my new 4231 Gas L.C. and NO problems yet. I change oil and filter every 50 hours. As stated in the thread -- Marine Formula Sta-bil in all the gas.

Good luck and hope all is trouble free from now on ! :thumbsup: :biggrin:

There was an updated tank for the 04 model year, I'm pretty sure this was done by a Ventrac dealer... Either way I mowed yesterday and it's definitely fixed... I'm hoping I'm done with repairs for now... For what I paid for it I expected to have to work on it.... At least now I have been thru it and have all the updated parts especially the new aluminum radiator, which transfers heat incredibly.

OK - my first 4231 was an 04, but it was late in the year so the update may have been done before mine was built. I never had any problems with the 04 - just normal routine maintenance.

So far no problems with the 2011 either.

I will put the word out about tires and "Bead Butter". I got an extra set of wheels and tires and mentioned that sometimes there was a slight air leak at the rim on some of my other tire/wheel sets - the installer said he would use "Bead Butter" when putting the tires on the wheels -- turned out to be a mistake -- I had tires come off the rim - not near the garage :thumbdown: -
(what a pain) and found that they would just push off by hand and did not require hardly any force to break the bead. I had to clean the wheels and tires completely at the bead and have not had any further problems.

After having the fuel starvation problem return, I took my cell phone and snapped a picture of inside the tank to see if something was in there and I found the culprit...

Looks like plastic items you could use a pick up tool similar to this to get them out !
I rotated and cleaned up your picture some.

It was way more than just 2 items.. I have mechanical fingers.. I couldn't leave the disintegrated fuel cap gasket in there... It looks like the gasket fell apart and crumbled into the tank. I pulled the tank and flushed it 4x sloshing fuel around and it's clean as new. I don't even know how it ran at all.

OK -- realized after I posted that it wasn't a noob that was asking for advice.

It is amazing what gets into a tank - I might have used a wet dry vac after draining and flushing with air for a while.
I use both the vacuum and the blower on my vacuum for many things. The Craftsman Vac I have has a detachable blower.

BKBrown said:

OK -- realized after I posted that it wasn't a noob that was asking for advice.

It is amazing what gets into a tank - I might have used a wet dry vac after draining and flushing with air for a while.
I use both the vacuum and the blower on my vacuum for many things. The Craftsman Vac I have has a detachable blower.

Click to expand...

No vacuum needed,it came clean 4 quick swirling rinses followed with letting it sit in the sun for a fee minutes to dry it out,and a blast of compressed air,it was clean as new...after seeing what was in my tank id urge all ventrac owners to take a good look at your fuel cap,and the condition of the rubber gasket that makes the seal against the filler neck,mine was disintegrated and I didn't notice it was coming apart so whenever I'd remove the lid,more crap would fall into the tank.i removed what was left of mine,and I'll have to get a new one.in the white bucket you can clearly see what's left of a gasket that was probably 8 inches long if you were to cut it.

I think it would be worth it to point this out to Dustin (Ventrac)

Not a bad idea, I'd hate to see one person have the fuel pickup plug in the middle of climbing a 30 degree hill or worse yet coming down one.. When it plugs your dead in the water..

It's been a month now and I finally have fixed the fuel system 100 percent! This machine impresses me every time I use it...I'm used to Steiners having run them over 23 years,and the refinement of the liquid cooled vanguard engine along with its endless torque really are a huge advantage over the noisy and weak below 3500 rpm kohler command 25s.

BKBrown said:

I've had 2 of the 4231 liquid cooled units. Loved the first one at near 900 trouble free hours and nearly 400 on the 2nd unit with no engine problems and only normal maintenance. Good to know that they are better liked than the Steiner Kohler engine.

Click to expand...

Don't forget the steiners have earned there keep,theses machines have been absolutely pounded and come back for more...and both kohler s have well over 4000 trouble free hours,I'm freshening the older one this week,first time it's had a valve cover off since new 13 yrs and 5000 hrs ago..it didnt fail it just got to where it was burning oil...pulling it past the rings which have lost there tension from overheating.

BKBrown said:

I wasn't putting down the Kohler engines, all the Kohler engines I have had or seen have been great.
It is my understanding that one can expect 10,000 or more hours from the 4231 Liquid Cooled engine
if properly maintained.
I do wish the Hydraulics were set to a little more pressure and the exhaust was a little more quiet, but nothing is perfect !
I believe the Steiner family continues to attempt to make the Ventrac a better machine that will equal or surpass the
newer Steiner brand tractor. :thumbsup: My Ventrac is impressive to everyone who looks at it and watches it work ! :thumbsup:

Click to expand...

You can turn up the charge pump on the ventrac using thin shims,and a 2000 psi pressure guage,you can make them out of an aluminum can and a standard hole puncher,it's the perfect size,or you can pay 10.00 for there shim kit which contains a few shims,i did that on my steiners and it helped,the ventracs have the advantage of having a splined gear/ shaft so they wont sheer the pin like a steiner will if you turn the charge pump past 1400 psi...if you have worn squash plates in the pump or either front or rear hydraulic motor,turning up the charge pressure won't do anything to help once the machine warms up,as the charge pump won't be able to attain relief pressure anyway due to the internal leaks from the worn squash plates...
As for comparing kohler/ Vanguard.. The vanguard 3 lc is an entirely different beast ,probably more in line with the kubota lc options on the steiners. When we initially bought the steiner it was a 5 year lease,and the liquid cooled options were much more expensive and only 1 horsepower more....it didnt make sense to lease the LC,when it was going back...or so we thought,we liked it so much 5 years later, we bought out the lease... I'm a huge fan of all the briggs vanguards ..especially the big block v twins and 3LC. If I could find a clean used 850 D I'd put it in one of my steiners,they are a great engine,along with the 950/954G.i wish Briggs would have used the EFI version of these engines instead of phasing them out due to emissions compliance...

OK -- Thanks !