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2007 gt2550 run for awhile , then cut off after about 45 minutes.
#1
P
Phil805
P
Phil805
after using about 45 minutes will just cut off like you turned off key. seem to be always on hill. will not restart until it cool down. I have changed oil, replaced air filter, and replaced fuel filter. I have removed hood and it seems to run longer. by longer I'm able to finish lawn. I have also cleaned fins near oil filter. After spending near 5k for wonderful mower I'm starting get, well to say the least up set. any help on this matter would be helpful.:frown:
#2
H
Honda Tech
H
Honda Tech
Hi Phil, just a good guess, but it sounds like your ignition coils are quitting when hot. Not an uncommon failure. If you can safely check for spark when it dies is the best way to confirm. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you have to pull the engine to replace them.
#3
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Spend a few $ and buy a pair of in line neon tube spark testers.
Put them on the mower and go mow.
When it plays up have a look at them.
They both should flash red at about the same rate.
If no red flashes then disconnect both of the coil cut out wires and check again.
Again , no flashes or intermittant flashes = suspect coils, take them off and get them tested at the mower shop.
If the coils look good then pull the fuel line off and check for fuel flow.
In order for fuel to go out, air must come in.
AFAIK Torro are the only makers who filter the air going into the tank.
This air will be dusty and the dust tends to settle on the bottom of the tank and has been known to block off the fuel outlet.
This was a big problem with all the 2000 series cubs we got down here and for some strange reason, removing the hoods made them run for longer so we spent hundereds of hours chasing down the "faulty" electronics assuming it was heat related when all along they just needed to have the tanks pulled & cleaned out.
Put them on the mower and go mow.
When it plays up have a look at them.
They both should flash red at about the same rate.
If no red flashes then disconnect both of the coil cut out wires and check again.
Again , no flashes or intermittant flashes = suspect coils, take them off and get them tested at the mower shop.
If the coils look good then pull the fuel line off and check for fuel flow.
In order for fuel to go out, air must come in.
AFAIK Torro are the only makers who filter the air going into the tank.
This air will be dusty and the dust tends to settle on the bottom of the tank and has been known to block off the fuel outlet.
This was a big problem with all the 2000 series cubs we got down here and for some strange reason, removing the hoods made them run for longer so we spent hundereds of hours chasing down the "faulty" electronics assuming it was heat related when all along they just needed to have the tanks pulled & cleaned out.
#4
P
packardv8
X2 on Bert's diagnosis. Over the years my 2135 has had the same malady. I replaced the coil and still had the problem. Then decided it was vapor lock, so rerouted the fuel line outside the shroud. In the end, his advice has proven correct. When mine stops, blowing back through the supply line starts fuel flowing.
It may end up pulling the tank is necessary, but I'm taking it in steps. Since the tank is such a PITA to remove, I'm going to try draining it completely, letting it dry and then thoroughly vacuuming out with a brush to remove as much of the problem debris as possible.
jack vines
P
packardv8
Spend a few $ and buy a pair of in line neon tube spark testers.
Put them on the mower and go mow.
When it plays up have a look at them.
They both should flash red at about the same rate.
If no red flashes then disconnect both of the coil cut out wires and check again.
Again , no flashes or intermittant flashes = suspect coils, take them off and get them tested at the mower shop.
If the coils look good then pull the fuel line off and check for fuel flow.
In order for fuel to go out, air must come in.
AFAIK Torro are the only makers who filter the air going into the tank.
This air will be dusty and the dust tends to settle on the bottom of the tank and has been known to block off the fuel outlet.
This was a big problem with all the 2000 series cubs we got down here and for some strange reason, removing the hoods made them run for longer so we spent hundereds of hours chasing down the "faulty" electronics assuming it was heat related when all along they just needed to have the tanks pulled & cleaned out.
X2 on Bert's diagnosis. Over the years my 2135 has had the same malady. I replaced the coil and still had the problem. Then decided it was vapor lock, so rerouted the fuel line outside the shroud. In the end, his advice has proven correct. When mine stops, blowing back through the supply line starts fuel flowing.
It may end up pulling the tank is necessary, but I'm taking it in steps. Since the tank is such a PITA to remove, I'm going to try draining it completely, letting it dry and then thoroughly vacuuming out with a brush to remove as much of the problem debris as possible.
jack vines
#5
G
greynold99
G
greynold99
Phil805,
Good advice from Bertsmobile1 & Packardv8.
I have a similar HDS2135 (1996) to Packardv8's and am the original owner; so, when at around 500 hours it started doing what you're experiencing I did the following in approximately the order listed (one or two may be out of place but it's pretty close)...
1. Removed/disasembled/cleaned carburetor; replaced spark plug and fuel & air filter
2. Replaced the ignition coil - original probably wasn't bad but it's a little difficult to get to and really needed a cleaning of accumulated mowing debris that I replaced it with a new one while I had it all apart;
3. Vacuumed out the fuel tank with a 3/8" flexible vinyl tube rigged up to a straightened out coat-hanger so I could focus on cleaning out any crud on the bottom of the fuel tank and around the fuel outlet on far-side bottom;
Each thing I did seemed to help a little but the main issue was the heat build up on a hot day when mowing. On cool days I could often mow for longer times before the engine would start stalling out and I had to engage the choke to keep it running at all.
4. Found a forum article discussing how the ethanol in today's gas corrodes the interior of the metal fuel tube that's in these Kohler engines and restricts fuel flow that feeds the carburetor from the other side of the Kohler 12.5 hp OHV engine where the fuel pump & filter are located. This steel tube goes through the hottest part of the engine compartment area lending it to vapor lock.
I routed a 24" piece of fuel tubing from the fuel filter on the one side, along the back firewall, where I secured it through a larger piece of vinyl tubing to cable ties so the fuel line could flex/move unrestricted. This really helped; but finally,
5. I replaced the fuel pump and for me that finally fixed the problem. The fuel pump is driven by the cam in the engine by a metal-arm and the wear on it, though I couldn't 'see' any substantial wear, was worn down just enough maybe to not make good contact when it got hot.
Hope this helps & good luck,
greynold99
Good advice from Bertsmobile1 & Packardv8.
I have a similar HDS2135 (1996) to Packardv8's and am the original owner; so, when at around 500 hours it started doing what you're experiencing I did the following in approximately the order listed (one or two may be out of place but it's pretty close)...
1. Removed/disasembled/cleaned carburetor; replaced spark plug and fuel & air filter
2. Replaced the ignition coil - original probably wasn't bad but it's a little difficult to get to and really needed a cleaning of accumulated mowing debris that I replaced it with a new one while I had it all apart;
3. Vacuumed out the fuel tank with a 3/8" flexible vinyl tube rigged up to a straightened out coat-hanger so I could focus on cleaning out any crud on the bottom of the fuel tank and around the fuel outlet on far-side bottom;
Each thing I did seemed to help a little but the main issue was the heat build up on a hot day when mowing. On cool days I could often mow for longer times before the engine would start stalling out and I had to engage the choke to keep it running at all.
4. Found a forum article discussing how the ethanol in today's gas corrodes the interior of the metal fuel tube that's in these Kohler engines and restricts fuel flow that feeds the carburetor from the other side of the Kohler 12.5 hp OHV engine where the fuel pump & filter are located. This steel tube goes through the hottest part of the engine compartment area lending it to vapor lock.
I routed a 24" piece of fuel tubing from the fuel filter on the one side, along the back firewall, where I secured it through a larger piece of vinyl tubing to cable ties so the fuel line could flex/move unrestricted. This really helped; but finally,
5. I replaced the fuel pump and for me that finally fixed the problem. The fuel pump is driven by the cam in the engine by a metal-arm and the wear on it, though I couldn't 'see' any substantial wear, was worn down just enough maybe to not make good contact when it got hot.
Hope this helps & good luck,
greynold99
#6
P
packardv8
P
packardv8
FWIW:
1. Yes, the malady did seem temperature related, but then, we mow more in hot weather than cold.
2. I did replace the metal line with an external fuel injection hose. Subsequent examination did not reveal any internal corrosion. The line and the heat weren't the problem.
3. A clear plastic fuel filter at the fuel pump inlet was the final diagnostic tool. When it visibly runs dry, the fuel pump isn't my problem. Removing the hose from the filter inlet, no fuel is flowing. Blowing back through the line, then fuel flows from the tank to the filter to the pump by gravity.
Bottom line - my tank outlet is plugging.
jack vines
1. Yes, the malady did seem temperature related, but then, we mow more in hot weather than cold.
2. I did replace the metal line with an external fuel injection hose. Subsequent examination did not reveal any internal corrosion. The line and the heat weren't the problem.
3. A clear plastic fuel filter at the fuel pump inlet was the final diagnostic tool. When it visibly runs dry, the fuel pump isn't my problem. Removing the hose from the filter inlet, no fuel is flowing. Blowing back through the line, then fuel flows from the tank to the filter to the pump by gravity.
Bottom line - my tank outlet is plugging.
jack vines
#7
G
greynold99
G
greynold99
After finally resolving my Batt Charge Warning light problem on another thread here, I was mowing last night for over 2 hours and noticed as the tractor was getting hotter that I started experiencing that vapor lock/slight engine stalling problem again. It finally died when it got hot enough, I had been running with Choke slighly engaged and I wasn't quick enough to shut off the PTO to keep it running without the load...
Last night was the hottest weather I've had to mow in since I thought I got the problem fixed last Summer - something around 87 degrees and miserable humid. I still had the left side engine cover panel off because I planned on changing the oil and that's the side where the oil drain tube is located.
The one thing that I find a problematic in resolving with a 'clogged' fuel tank is that after waiting an hour; once the Cub cooled down, she started right up and I finished the 1/2 hour or so of mowing that I had left to do. I would think that a clogged fuel tank would stay clogged.
Packardv8 does that match your experience?
The only other thing I can think of and you might want to look at this when you pull your 2135's fuel tank, is the fuel outlet on the bottom, front of the tank looks like it might use a small rubber flow plug, similar to what is found in water softeners to regulate fuel flow.
I'm wondering if the ethanol in today's fuel is causing that flow plug to get 'spongy' and ultimately choking off the fuel flow...?
I still can't fully resolve what the 'heat' of extended running has to do with it and certainly if that plug got corrupted by ethanol it would stay swelled up
But post your findings when you finally get to the fuel tank removal.
greynold99
Last night was the hottest weather I've had to mow in since I thought I got the problem fixed last Summer - something around 87 degrees and miserable humid. I still had the left side engine cover panel off because I planned on changing the oil and that's the side where the oil drain tube is located.
The one thing that I find a problematic in resolving with a 'clogged' fuel tank is that after waiting an hour; once the Cub cooled down, she started right up and I finished the 1/2 hour or so of mowing that I had left to do. I would think that a clogged fuel tank would stay clogged.
Packardv8 does that match your experience?
The only other thing I can think of and you might want to look at this when you pull your 2135's fuel tank, is the fuel outlet on the bottom, front of the tank looks like it might use a small rubber flow plug, similar to what is found in water softeners to regulate fuel flow.
I'm wondering if the ethanol in today's fuel is causing that flow plug to get 'spongy' and ultimately choking off the fuel flow...?
I still can't fully resolve what the 'heat' of extended running has to do with it and certainly if that plug got corrupted by ethanol it would stay swelled up
But post your findings when you finally get to the fuel tank removal.
greynold99
#8
S
shiftsuper175607
"I would think that a clogged fuel tank would stay clogged."
My theory...
As you mow the sediment is stirred up and drawn toward the suction. Some may even be carried part way up the tube. After a while flow is restricted enough to cause the mower to die.
My experience was that the mower started acting up after 15 minutes or so when I made a turn...how's' that for weird. I put a small external gas tank clamped to the bumper and gravity feed to fuel pump, and the mower worked fine.
I cleaned out my tank and replaced lines while I had the fenders off.
I have had no problems since.
S
shiftsuper175607
After finally resolving my Batt Charge Warning light problem on another thread here, I was mowing last night for over 2 hours and noticed as the tractor was getting hotter that I started experiencing that vapor lock/slight engine stalling problem again. It finally died when it got hot enough, I had been running with Choke slighly engaged and I wasn't quick enough to shut off the PTO to keep it running without the load...
Last night was the hottest weather I've had to mow in since I thought I got the problem fixed last Summer - something around 87 degrees and miserable humid. I still had the left side engine cover panel off because I planned on changing the oil and that's the side where the oil drain tube is located.
The one thing that I find a problematic in resolving with a 'clogged' fuel tank is that after waiting an hour; once the Cub cooled down, she started right up and I finished the 1/2 hour or so of mowing that I had left to do. I would think that a clogged fuel tank would stay clogged.
Packardv8 does that match your experience?
The only other thing I can think of and you might want to look at this when you pull your 2135's fuel tank, is the fuel outlet on the bottom, front of the tank looks like it might use a small rubber flow plug, similar to what is found in water softeners to regulate fuel flow.
I'm wondering if the ethanol in today's fuel is causing that flow plug to get 'spongy' and ultimately choking off the fuel flow...?
I still can't fully resolve what the 'heat' of extended running has to do with it and certainly if that plug got corrupted by ethanol it would stay swelled up
But post your findings when you finally get to the fuel tank removal.
greynold99
"I would think that a clogged fuel tank would stay clogged."
My theory...
As you mow the sediment is stirred up and drawn toward the suction. Some may even be carried part way up the tube. After a while flow is restricted enough to cause the mower to die.
My experience was that the mower started acting up after 15 minutes or so when I made a turn...how's' that for weird. I put a small external gas tank clamped to the bumper and gravity feed to fuel pump, and the mower worked fine.
I cleaned out my tank and replaced lines while I had the fenders off.
I have had no problems since.
#9
P
packardv8
Yes, it matches my experience, and that's what led to replacing the coil and re-routing the fuel line.
No, despite our logic, a clogged fuel line doesn't stay clogged. Whatever's causing it seems to float/flow away and allow it to re-start, as if something heat-related/vapor lock.
jack vines
P
packardv8
The one thing that I find a problematic in resolving with a 'clogged' fuel tank is that after waiting an hour; once the Cub cooled down, she started right up and I finished the 1/2 hour or so of mowing that I had left to do. I would think that a clogged fuel tank would stay clogged.
Packardv8 does that match your experience?
Yes, it matches my experience, and that's what led to replacing the coil and re-routing the fuel line.
No, despite our logic, a clogged fuel line doesn't stay clogged. Whatever's causing it seems to float/flow away and allow it to re-start, as if something heat-related/vapor lock.
jack vines
#10
G
greynold99
Packardv8,
Just checking in to see if you ever pulled the fuel tank... it looks like a fairly big job in having to remove the rear fender/seat panel.
One thing I wanted to mention was that when I siphoned-cleaned the fuel tank last Summer that I was able to see where the outlet connection is to the fuel line. Looked like there was some kind of fuel-flow limiting washer that was builtin to the inside of the opening to the tank- a round black/rubber washer with a smaller hole in the center; the whole thing looked like it might've been a little larger than a 1/4 inch diameter but not quite as large as 3/8 inch.
This might be replaceable and might possibly degrade with time and ethanol exposure as rubber components do with alcohol.
I'd be interested if you can confirm this as my vision isn't as good as it used to be but that's what I thought I saw when I had drained the fuel.
I had thought at the time that this smaller flow-hole might get filled up with the very small debris in the gas and after 'sitting' for a while when the engine shuts off that the debris drifts away once the suction on the fuel line stops. I think someone has mentioned about the gas-cap on these Cubs not having any kind of filtering for the air needed to flow into the tank to equalize air pressure on the tanks inside when engine is running, so your likely getting very small particles of grass debris floating in the gas that you may not be able to see.
Although, I have to admit it's very strange How Many of these 'Engine shuts off after 45 min. or an hour...' reports I keep running across...
And it looks like it affects all ages of Cub tractors and RZT mowers, not just old ones like ours with over 500 hours of service.
Let me know if you confirm what I indicated about a fuel flow restrictor washer in the tank when you can.
thanks,
greynold99
G
greynold99
Yes, it matches my experience, and that's what led to replacing the coil and re-routing the fuel line.
No, despite our logic, a clogged fuel line doesn't stay clogged. Whatever's causing it seems to float/flow away and allow it to re-start, as if something heat-related/vapor lock.
jack vines
Packardv8,
Just checking in to see if you ever pulled the fuel tank... it looks like a fairly big job in having to remove the rear fender/seat panel.
One thing I wanted to mention was that when I siphoned-cleaned the fuel tank last Summer that I was able to see where the outlet connection is to the fuel line. Looked like there was some kind of fuel-flow limiting washer that was builtin to the inside of the opening to the tank- a round black/rubber washer with a smaller hole in the center; the whole thing looked like it might've been a little larger than a 1/4 inch diameter but not quite as large as 3/8 inch.
This might be replaceable and might possibly degrade with time and ethanol exposure as rubber components do with alcohol.
I'd be interested if you can confirm this as my vision isn't as good as it used to be but that's what I thought I saw when I had drained the fuel.
I had thought at the time that this smaller flow-hole might get filled up with the very small debris in the gas and after 'sitting' for a while when the engine shuts off that the debris drifts away once the suction on the fuel line stops. I think someone has mentioned about the gas-cap on these Cubs not having any kind of filtering for the air needed to flow into the tank to equalize air pressure on the tanks inside when engine is running, so your likely getting very small particles of grass debris floating in the gas that you may not be able to see.
Although, I have to admit it's very strange How Many of these 'Engine shuts off after 45 min. or an hour...' reports I keep running across...
And it looks like it affects all ages of Cub tractors and RZT mowers, not just old ones like ours with over 500 hours of service.
Let me know if you confirm what I indicated about a fuel flow restrictor washer in the tank when you can.
thanks,
greynold99