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2 Older Toro mowers with totally different spark plugs????

#1

C

crazy charlie

I own 2 old Toro mowers.A recycler GTS2 and a GTS5 OHV ,Mowers look almost identical except that the Recycler with the GTS2 motor reads "Toro" on it. Both have same brand plug with twin electrodes, one is a 12 and the other is a 22 with significantly longer reach head on it.Totally different plugs....totally different.The Recycler gts2 Toro motor has the 12 plug and is never easy to start and often runs for 5 minutes and then cuts off and restarts easily in 5 mins. The GTS5 with the 22 plug starts pretty easily and keeps running as long as I need it to.ID tags are long gone with age .Confused with plug differences and assuming the recycler may've incorrect plug...???? Anyone???? Thanks Charlie


#2

R

Rivets

Post the model and serial numbers for both units. With those numbers I can tell you what plug was used in both engines. Toro never used a split terminal spark plug in any of their units so I suspect someone has changed spark plugs in both.


#3

C

crazy charlie

Rivets said:
Post the model and serial numbers for both units. With those numbers I can tell you what plug was used in both engines. Toro never used a split terminal spark plug in any of their units so I suspect someone has changed spark plugs in both.
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Thanks Rivets, I appreciate the offer to help. Unfortunately you missed one of the last lines in my post.These
are old machines and the tags are long gone.They deserve another look though.I will hose them down and have a closer look.Thanks again.Charlie


#4

R

Rivets

Have you looked under the sheet metal panel which holds the controls?


#5

S

slomo

At least post a picture of the mowers. Maybe someone here can narrow it via visual ID.

I agree, never seen any split electrodes in a mower engine. Must be those E3 racing plugs with an extra 75HP each.


#6

C

crazy charlie

Rivets said:
Have you looked under the sheet metal panel which holds the controls?
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slomo said:
At least post a picture of the mowers. Maybe someone here can narrow it via visual ID.

I agree, never seen any split electrodes in a mower engine. Must be those E3 racing plugs with an extra 75HP each.
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Will check there for sure.Yes on the E3 plug .Thats the brand of plug that is in there and I have seen that in another of my machines......Dont recall which machine but I have surely seen that plug before.Charlie


#7

C

crazy charlie

ok got some pics of both except the recycler tag.The pic came out bad and was under the control cover.These pics are
the one with the long reach dual head plug

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#8

C

crazy charlie

This is the recycler with what looks to be a common plug ,this mower is not easy to start, not easy to pull and Im not a skinny whip..lol

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#9

R

Rivets

Here is the owners manual for the unit model 26622, which lists the plug to use in that engine. https://www.toro.com/getpub/7920
The other unit has a Briggs engine and will use a Champion J19LM. Can’t get you a manual because you didn’t post the model number. Post back when you get the number or have more questions.


#10

C

crazy charlie

Will do thanks much!! Charlie


#11

M

MowerNick

The second one with the briggs engine may not be priming right. Remove the air filter and look in the throat with a flashlight. When you prime it you should get a stream of fuel coming up the tube. If you dont have one you can try removing the filter box and doubling up on the gasket. Sometimes its enough to correct it.


#12

C

crazy charlie

MowerNick said:
The second one with the briggs engine may not be priming right. Remove the air filter and look in the throat with a flashlight. When you prime it you should get a stream of fuel coming up the tube. If you dont have one you can try removing the filter box and doubling up on the gasket. Sometimes its enough to correct it.
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Thanks Nick,I dont have a primer on either mower.I usually put it in full choke and slowly pull the cord a few times.


#13

M

MowerNick

Ok so you could look too see if the choke is closing completely too.


#14

C

crazy charlie

Will taks a look, thanks!!


#15

F

Freddie21

Could you not swap plugs between the two? I would turn the engine, with the long plug, over by hand the first time to make sure the piston does not hit the plug. Or, you could measure the distance from the top of the piston to the top of the spark plug hole to see if there's a difference. If the hard-to-start engine runs better, run the same plug in both.


#16

homer888

homer888

Have a 25 year old Toro with Briggs.Tried the E3 plug and no go.I use J19lm.


#17

T

TobyU

crazy charlie said:
ok got some pics of both except the recycler tag.The pic came out bad and was under the control cover.These pics are
the one with the long reach dual head plug
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Neither one of the original plugs but rather that stupid E3 stuff that people get conned into buying thinking it's going to be better and just wasting a few more dollars on them.
None of these lawn mowers ever came with a split or a dual electrode spark plug as it's unnecessary.
The mower pictured in above is a Suzuki built 4 cycle GTS engine.
I'm guessing it came with an NGK plug but heck it could have been a champion originally and I probably have a couple of them in my storage with the original plugs in them because I collect these but I can't get to them right now! Lol
You can go by the model number of the mower and look up spark plug and more than likely even find it on the Toro website which has a very good lookup my model number and serial number but basically any of those older gts's use the same plug.
There should be some numbers on the side of the engine though as I've seen some very old ones that were still quite visible.


#18

T

TobyU

homer888 said:
Have a 25 year old Toro with Briggs.Tried the E3 plug and no go.I use J19lm.
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Yours probably has a Briggs & Stratton engine which does typically did have a jade.tln or an rj19lm and that same plug will also fit the Tecumseh engines quite nicely but at 25 years old it's not quite old enough to have the engines he has.
He has the aluminum deck only model rear bagger with the rectangular shoot on the right hand side with the Suzuki GTS 4 cycle engine which pretty much disappeared by the very early 90s. I'd have to do some research to tell you the exact dates but they got pretty scarce somewhere in the early to mid-90s.
These had the blade brake clutch override system on most of the models and the three speed lever selected transmission speed.


#19

T

TobyU

crazy charlie said:
This is the recycler with what looks to be a common plug ,this mower is not easy to start, not easy to pull and Im not a skinny whip..lol
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This mower, the second one you pictured has the Briggs & Stratton and should be a j19lm or rj19lm. Either one will work just fine. There is also an RJ 19LMC which just stands for copper which is fine too.
The first one you pictured is the Suzuki and it will have possibly even a finer thread but it will be a longer reach plug.
Regardless, you can test for spark and set the gap and it's highly unlikely to be a plug anyways. It's pretty much never a plug on an engine won't start or run.
It does happen but in my experience of thousands of mowers, it's about 1 and every 450 at best so you can always assume that it's not the plug and going to the plug first thing or pulling out or even checking it is almost always a waste of time.
It's almost always fuel so the first thing you should do to troubleshoot is to pop the air filter out and give it a squirt of spray carb cleaner in the hole for an external fuel source and then pull it a few times.
Technically, you should check the oil and make sure it has something that looks like oil in it and it's in the safe area on the stick before you do this. Lol


#20

C

crazy charlie

TobyU said:
This mower, the second one you pictured has the Briggs & Stratton and should be a j19lm or rj19lm. Either one will work just fine. There is also an RJ 19LMC which just stands for copper which is fine too.
The first one you pictured is the Suzuki and it will have possibly even a finer thread but it will be a longer reach plug.
Regardless, you can test for spark and set the gap and it's highly unlikely to be a plug anyways. It's pretty much never a plug on an engine won't start or run.
It does happen but in my experience of thousands of mowers, it's about 1 and every 450 at best so you can always assume that it's not the plug and going to the plug first thing or pulling out or even checking it is almost always a waste of time.
It's almost always fuel so the first thing you should do to troubleshoot is to pop the air filter out and give it a squirt of spray carb cleaner in the hole for an external fuel source and then pull it a few times.
Technically, you should check the oil and make sure it has something that looks like oil in it and it's in the safe area on the stick before you do this. Lol
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Thanks Toby will give it a spray to help get it started.I was thinking starter fluid spray though? I changed oil in the spring but it got dirty before the end of the season.seemed like it was running hot but im no expert.I have had the mower for a year and dont know the previous history so gotta guess it was not cared for properly.Carb bowl was very clean when I checked and I ran Sea Foam thru the fuel system .Thanks guys !!! Charlie.


#21

T

TobyU

crazy charlie said:
Thanks Toby will give it a spray to help get it started.I was thinking starter fluid spray though? I changed oil in the spring but it got dirty before the end of the season.seemed like it was running hot but im no expert.I have had the mower for a year and dont know the previous history so gotta guess it was not cared for properly.Carb bowl was very clean when I checked and I ran Sea Foam thru the fuel system .Thanks guys !!! Charlie.
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Starting fluid will work but it's really hard on the engines and you can hear them knock often violently even 5 they fire up on it.
Spray carb cleaner is cheaper (Walmart brand) and gives you 2 for 1 purpose. It is not hard on engines at all and you could sit there and run one all day if you wanted to tap the spray nozzle all day long without any harm to engine.


#22

C

crazy charlie

Here is tag for the recycler

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#23

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

that model and serial number is calling for a RJ19LM according to the owners manual


#24

C

crazy charlie

ILENGINE said:
that model and serial number is calling for a RJ19LM according to the owners manual
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Thats what was in it so correct plug but a little old looking.Doubt the plug is my issue but I will clean it up and see.
whats the gap? 30?


#25

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

crazy charlie said:
Thats what was in it so correct plug but a little old looking.Doubt the plug is my issue but I will clean it up and see.
whats the gap? 30?
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.030 is correct gap and just replace the plug. I have a motto of never trust a spark plug. Have seen way too many that are faulty or have intermittent faults.


#26

T

TobyU

ILENGINE said:
.030 is correct gap and just replace the plug. I have a motto of never trust a spark plug. Have seen way too many that are faulty or have intermittent faults.
Click to expand...
It is true that one can decide to go out whenever it wants to but if you want to be the most efficient in your troubleshooting procedure it is best to always start with never trust the engine is getting fuel.
So start off by giving it a shot of carb cleaner in the intake to see if it will run for a couple of seconds because probably 90% of the time or more they will and this let you know it's not a spark plug at least not at this moment.
Far too many people, in fact most of them jump towards the spark plug being the problem from the beginning and they just waste the time and money of replacing a plug and many of them damage the threads and sometimes destroy an entire head because of this when the plug wasn't the problem at all.


#27

StarTech

StarTech

With experience comes wisdom. Yes there a set procedure when you first start checking out a mower. Plus doesn't hurt to have right test equipment including working organic diagnostic computer.

The new guy at Lowes is still looking for that adjustable metric wrench.

With the model numbers posted one uses a NGK-4006 and the other uses a Champion RJ19LM.


#28

C

crazy charlie

Cleaned up the champ on the recycler(also ordered a new one) and found the gap to be way too small.The plug was the correct size so maybe the gap was part of the issue.Still have to ck that its getting fuel when I start it in choke.Charlie


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