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19HP twin only runs with choke 1/2 on

Feb 28, 2019#1

K

katbird

I have replaced air filter, plugs, checked gas and engine will still only run smoothly with choke 1/2 on
B&S 19HP
Any suggestions?

Feb 28, 2019#2

D

Darryl G

I'd replace the fuel and start with fresh but it sounds like it's starving for fuel, so there's likely a restriction in the tank, the lines or most likely the carburetor.

Feb 28, 2019#3

H

helomech

Usually a dirty carb. Going to have to take it apart and clean the small orifices real good.

Feb 28, 2019#4

Fish

Find the engine's model numbers and put them up.

Feb 28, 2019#5

K

katbird

Fish said:
Find the engine's model numbers and put them up.

BRIGGS & STRATrON ENGINE-MODEL NUMBER 461707, TYPE NUMBER 0145-E3

Feb 28, 2019#6

C

cruzenmike

You could always remove the fuel line from the tank and start work clearing all of the lines and flushing the tank out. Then replace your fuel filter and get some fresh gas. At that point you can always move to the carb and work on a rebuild. Ethanol in our modern day gas does damage to the rubber parts in the carb. And even the smallest bit of contamination in the path of fuel flow can be problematic. If there is a fuel shutoff solenoid it could also be sticking somewhat but I would think that to be unlikely.

Feb 28, 2019#7

Fish

On the bottom side,
there is a plug that you need to remove, and inside that passage, you need to remove the inner jet, takes an allen wrench.

Take it out, old gas/junk will dribble out. Clean that jet, re-assemble.

https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...sets-carburetor-1-kit-gasket-sets-fuel-pump-1

Feb 28, 2019#8

Fish

Looking at the model number is key to giving any sound advice.

Feb 28, 2019#9

Fish

BTW, the last number/code, is the mfgr date of the engine.

Feb 28, 2019#10

H

helomech

Fish said:
Looking at the model number is key to giving any sound advice.

Not for this problem, it happens on every model of small engine. Boats, lawn mowers anything with a small 4 stroke engine. If you have to add choke, it is getting to much air for the fuel. That means that not enough fuel is getting through the carb, if the bowl is full of fuel than it is a clogged jet.

Mar 1, 2019#11

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

katbird said:
I have replaced air filter, plugs, checked gas and engine will still only run smoothly with choke 1/2 on
B&S 19HP
Any suggestions?

Welcome to the forum Kat Bird ............ We all hate to see you here, but we would love to see you here WITHOUT an issue with your engine LOL....

Ok like a few people said, we do need the MODEL number and the TYPE would help also.... Those numbers are on the valve cover of the engine .... Most likely the right side as you are facing the mower from the front.....

Then what I want to know is which carb do you have ???? The small one or the wide style 2 Barrel ??? Maybe the small one on your 19 HP.... We can help more with the numbers .... I know both those carbs well and your carb needs a good cleaning IMHO......

Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!

Mar 1, 2019#12

Boobala

You can scroll through this list of Carbs., find yours and follow the diagrams.

http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/#id_general

This should be your engine manual ..... Your carb rebuild INSTR. in here also.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6NaqjIxWV1ybHphbUNTQUNNR2s/edit

Mar 1, 2019#13

Fish

Yes,
knowing what engine he has is "key" to giving him good advice.

Mar 1, 2019#14

Fish

Here is what his carb looks like, and that plug toward the camera is the one he needs to remove to access, remove,
and clean the main jet. Most times that is all that you need to do to get going again.
After removing the jet, crank the engine a little and let the water and crud pulse out.

Then re-assemble.

I described this a little in post #7 of this thread.

Mar 1, 2019#15

H

helomech

Fish said:
View attachment 43020Here is what his carb looks like, and that plug toward the camera is the one he needs to remove to access, remove,
and clean the main jet. Most times that is all that you need to do to get going again.
After removing the jet, crank the engine a little and let the water and crud pulse out.

Then re-assemble.

I described this a little in post #7 of this thread.

Which is the same thing I would say to any small 4 stroke engine. He didn't ask how to take a carb apart, he asked what would fix it. Only if he asked how to clean his carb would the model of the engine matter. These are very simple carbs, no rocket science going on. Take the thing apart and clean everything while it is apart. Put back together and cut grass.

Mar 1, 2019#16

H

helomech

Fish said:
Yes,
knowing what engine he has is "key" to giving him good advice.

If so, than please explain to me what other advice would you give him for this problem on any other engine? I would give him the exact same answer no matter what 4 stroke gas engine he listed. Clean the jets, if the fuel bowl is full.

Mar 1, 2019#17

D

Darryl G

helomech said:
If so, than please explain to me what other advice would you give him for this problem on any other engine? I would give him the exact same answer no matter what 4 stroke gas engine he listed. Clean the jets, if the fuel bowl is full.

Could you please chill out. Everyone has their own style of helping here. Taking on someone else's style isn't helpful.

Mar 1, 2019#18

H

helomech

Darryl G said:
Could you please chill out. Everyone has their own style of helping here. Taking on someone else's style isn't helpful.

I am chilled out. Trying to figure out why the model of engine makes a difference on this problem? Been working on things my whole life, and every small 2cycle or 4 cycle engine is the same for this. I can see why the model would matter if he asked how to take it apart and clean it, that was not the question. Anyways have a great day.

Mar 1, 2019#19

B

bertsmobile1

helomech said:
If so, than please explain to me what other advice would you give him for this problem on any other engine? I would give him the exact same answer no matter what 4 stroke gas engine he listed. Clean the jets, if the fuel bowl is full.

Particular carbs and particular engines have known problems or know covers or plugs that either need to be removed to be cleaned properly or are best left alone because they are difficult to remove without damage or difficult to reseal and rarely need cleaning behind.
Some of the carbs used on the twins have inbuilt fuel pumps and the fuel pump is more prone to cause the problem described than the carb itself.
Some have removable jets that just push in or screw in while others have jets are fixed and attempts to remove the jet can damage them
Some have screw in jets that need to be removed with an exact close fitting screwdriver or you damage them.
Some venturi tubes have cross drillings that ned to be cleaned, some do not have cross drilings so do not need to be removed and some venturi tubes are cast in or sweated in and can not be removed without damage to them or to the carb.

Then you get to the seats.
Some are removable some are not.

So to give good specific advice and approprite warnings the engine number is needed.

Then you get differences in the understnding of what "cleaning" means.
Some will squirt some throttle & body cleaner down the venturi and consider the carb cleaned
Others will no consider anything clean unless it was fully dissasembled and boiled in an ultrasonic cleaner for hours.

When the thread is read at a latter date by some one who is not sure of what they are doing , it helps them to decide if this is the correct thing for their engine or not.
Thousands of people simply search the site for possible solutions to their problems and never ever post.

Most question could be answered with the single annogram; RTFM but that is not much use to the poster with the problem.
Also model numbers help the techs who oft skim through the forum and occasionally give the correct answer to the wrong question.

Mar 1, 2019#20

Fish

If one is to help someone clean the jet, he has to know where the jet is......

Mar 1, 2019#21

Fish

If one goes taking apart this carb without know where to go/do, he will take apart the fuel pump and lose the springs
and will not put it back together correctly, have to remove the whole thing, spend a bunch of cash he didn't have to, when all he needed was a socket and an allen wrench.
So I always ask for pics or a model number, so the advice I give will be as accurate as possible, and save the poster as much money as possible.

But that is just me......

Mar 1, 2019#22

H

helomech

bertsmobile1 said:
Particular carbs and particular engines have known problems or know covers or plugs that either need to be removed to be cleaned properly or are best left alone because they are difficult to remove without damage or difficult to reseal and rarely need cleaning behind.
Some of the carbs used on the twins have inbuilt fuel pumps and the fuel pump is more prone to cause the problem described than the carb itself.
Some have removable jets that just push in or screw in while others have jets are fixed and attempts to remove the jet can damage them
Some have screw in jets that need to be removed with an exact close fitting screwdriver or you damage them.
Some venturi tubes have cross drillings that ned to be cleaned, some do not have cross drilings so do not need to be removed and some venturi tubes are cast in or sweated in and can not be removed without damage to them or to the carb.

Then you get to the seats.
Some are removable some are not.

So to give good specific advice and approprite warnings the engine number is needed.

Then you get differences in the understnding of what "cleaning" means.
Some will squirt some throttle & body cleaner down the venturi and consider the carb cleaned
Others will no consider anything clean unless it was fully dissasembled and boiled in an ultrasonic cleaner for hours.

When the thread is read at a latter date by some one who is not sure of what they are doing , it helps them to decide if this is the correct thing for their engine or not.
Thousands of people simply search the site for possible solutions to their problems and never ever post.

Most question could be answered with the single annogram; RTFM but that is not much use to the poster with the problem.
Also model numbers help the techs who oft skim through the forum and occasionally give the correct answer to the wrong question.

Cool, good info. Thanks.

Mar 1, 2019#23

H

helomech

Fish said:
If one goes taking apart this carb without know where to go/do, he will take apart the fuel pump and lose the springs
and will not put it back together correctly, have to remove the whole thing, spend a bunch of cash he didn't have to, when all he needed was a socket and an allen wrench.
So I always ask for pics or a model number, so the advice I give will be as accurate as possible, and save the poster as much money as possible.

But that is just me......

I guess I just assume people can put stuff back together. I have been in aviation maintenance all of my adult life. It just come natural to me to put something back together. I can usually put most things together even if I am not the one that took it apart.

Mar 1, 2019#24

R

Rivets

Just another thought, may not be the carb. I had a twin last summer and we had another on this forum which both turned out to not be the carb at all. Both ended up being a hole in the intake manifold. Even though these symptoms normally lead to a carb problem, don’t over look a lean running condition caused by a bad gasket or broken manifold. Helo, you must remember that 90% of those coming to this forum for help have just enough mechanical knowledge to make them dangerous and that also goes for about 10% of the so called “ I’m an expert because I stay at a Holiday Inn last night”.

Mar 1, 2019#25

Boobala

helomech said:
I guess I just assume people can put stuff back together. I have been in aviation maintenance all of my adult life. It just come natural to me to put something back together. I can usually put most things together even if I am not the one that took it apart.

The info in post # 12 should have been helpful to MOST anyone with a mechanical background ! ..

Mar 1, 2019#26

Fish

Boobala said:
The info in post # 12 should have been helpful to MOST anyone with a mechanical background ! ..

Lol!!!!

Mar 1, 2019#27

H

helomech

Boobala said:
The info in post # 12 should have been helpful to MOST anyone with a mechanical background ! ..

I didn't click those links. I am more of a just do it type of guy. I hardly use books, and when I do it is just for specific specs. Like gaps, or voltages, that kind of thing.

Hard to tell by typing, are you trying to infer that I don't have a mechanical background?

Mar 1, 2019#28

Fish

helomech said:
I guess I just assume people can put stuff back together. I have been in aviation maintenance all of my adult life. It just come natural to me to put something back together. I can usually put most things together even if I am not the one that took it apart.

I am kind of on the opposite of this.

I know most folks cannot take stuff apart, and put it back together correctly. So I like knowing what model they have, either by model number, or at least a pic.
I like to tell them what I know to save them time, headaches, and money, if I can.
Otherwise I just do not post much more on it.

This model is an easy fix, if you can catch them before they tear into it, and knowing what they have is needed to help them fix the problem.

That is all.

No hard feelings.

On this model, if they take apart the fuel pump, the springs go everywhere and are lost, so a new kit there is then needed. And putting it is back together correctly is difficult without removing the whole thing, and it would have been fine if they just left it alone. Just trying to help the original poster in the best, quickest, cheapest, way possible.

Mar 1, 2019#29

H

helomech

Fish said:
I am kind of on the opposite of this.

I know most folks cannot take stuff apart, and put it back together correctly. So I like knowing what model they have, either by model number, or at least a pic.
I like to tell them what I know to save them time, headaches, and money, if I can.
Otherwise I just do not post much more on it.

This model is an easy fix, if you can catch them before they tear into it, and knowing what they have is needed to help them fix the problem.

That is all.

No hard feelings.

On this model, if they take apart the fuel pump, the springs go everywhere and are lost, so a new kit there is then needed. And putting it is back together correctly is difficult without removing the whole thing, and it would have been fine if they just left it alone. Just trying to help the original poster in the best, quickest, cheapest, way possible.

Cool, thanks. You seem very knowledgeable on these engines. Just always loved taking stuff apart. My parents had to throw stuff away where I could not get to it. If it was electrical or mechanical I would take it apart and try to fix it or modify it even at a very early age. Tripped almost all the breakers in the house when I was about 6 with a hair dryer my move threw away. All she did was cut the cord so I could not mess with it, but that didn't work.

Mar 1, 2019#30

Boobala

helomech said:
I didn't click those links. I am more of a just do it type of guy. I hardly use books, and when I do it is just for specific specs. Like gaps, or voltages, that kind of thing.

Hard to tell by typing, are you trying to infer that I don't have a mechanical background?

NOPE .. NOT AT ALL ! I too was an an aviation mech U.S.A.F. Jet Eng Mech ( AFSC 43270 ) ( 66-70) B52s & EC-RC 135s , after military on & off for about another 15 years C-130 Hercules (covert transports), Lear-Jet and several others, I was taught to use a manual at all times, ( it was enforced ) to this day, if there's a manual for it, I use it, (including the wifeys carpet shampooer & Micro-wave) it's a proven fact that being complacent, will SOMETIMES lead to undesirable results. ....Just my thoughts ..

Mar 1, 2019#31

H

helomech

Boobala said:
NOPE .. NOT AT ALL ! I too was an an aviation mech U.S.A.F. Jet Eng Mech ( AFSC 43270 ) ( 66-70) B52s & EC-RC 135s , after military on & off for about another 15 years C-130 Hercules (covert transports), Lear-Jet and several others, I was taught to use a manual at all times, ( it was enforced ) to this day, if there's a manual for it, I use it, (including the wifeys carpet shampooer & Micro-wave) it's a proven fact that being complacent, will SOMETIMES lead to undesirable results. ....Just my thoughts ..

Cool thanks. I started in the Army working on the AH-64 apache got out in 1996 and then worked fixed wing at a small place for about a year. Then hired on with Bristow (actually back then it was Air Log) in 1997. Been there ever since. Worked on so many different types of planes and helicopters that I can't keep track. Some of the crazy torque sequences now you have to use the manual. It literally takes about 6 hours to torque 8 bolts on the main and tail rotor of the AW-139. It sucks.

Mar 1, 2019#32

Boobala

helomech said:
Cool thanks. I started in the Army working on the AH-64 apache got out in 1996 and then worked fixed wing at a small place for about a year. Then hired on with Bristow (actually back then it was Air Log) in 1997. Been there ever since. Worked on so many different types of planes and helicopters that I can't keep track. Some of the crazy torque sequences now you have to use the manual. It literally takes about 6 hours to torque 8 bolts on the main and tail rotor of the AW-139. It sucks.

I loved workin on the "birds", only problem with them, is they cram 10 Lbs of schitt into a 5Lb. bag, .. :laughing:..:laughing: everything is SOoooo tight for aerodynamics, as you most likely know, sometimes you had to remove other components to gain access to the item you need to repair/replace ARrrgghhhh !!.. :thumbsup:

Mar 1, 2019#33

H

helomech

Boobala said:
I loved workin on the "birds", only problem with them, is they cram 10 Lbs of schitt into a 5Lb. bag, .. :laughing:..:laughing: everything is SOoooo tight for aerodynamics, as you most likely know, sometimes you had to remove other components to gain access to the item you need to repair/replace ARrrgghhhh !!.. :thumbsup:

Yes, you should see the ones with floats on them. All of ours are equipped with emergency floatation. Packing those things in is a real PITA.

Here is one of the ones I take care of right now. This is a S-92, the other is a AW-139, and a S-76 C++.

Mar 1, 2019#34

Boobala

helomech said:
Yes, you should see the ones with floats on them. All of ours are equipped with emergency floatation. Packing those things in is a real PITA.

Here is one of the ones I take care of right now. This is a S-92, the other is a AW-139, and a S-76 C++.

View attachment 43023

I feel your frustration, and I don't miss that part of the job, GLAD to B retired, hope U don't have long to go for yours .. :thumbsup:

Mar 1, 2019#35

H

helomech

Boobala said:
I feel your frustration, and I don't miss that part of the job, GLAD to B retired, hope U don't have long to go for yours .. :thumbsup:

17.5 years. Wrapping it up at 62.5.

Mar 2, 2019#36

Boobala

helomech said:
17.5 years. Wrapping it up at 62.5.

DAM Helo, U B a YUNG-UN !! .. me B pushin on 73 !! .. :laughing:..:laughing:.. :thumbsup:

Mar 2, 2019#37

H

helomech

Boobala said:
DAM Helo, U B a YUNG-UN !! .. me B pushin on 73 !! .. :laughing:..:laughing:.. :thumbsup:

Cool. I turn 46 in October.

Mar 2, 2019#38

P

Pumper54

Sometimes as someone pointed out way back in the thread that an air leak in the manifold, carb to manifold or manifold to head mounting MAY cause the same issues. Glad everyone now sees how each of us deal with the same problem, seems a lot of folks say the same thing but use different words.

Question for the helo mechanics in the crowd: what is the torque specs on the "Jesus Nut" for most birds? :smile:
Tom

Mar 2, 2019#39

H

helomech

Pumper54 said:
Sometimes as someone pointed out way back in the thread that an air leak in the manifold, carb to manifold or manifold to head mounting MAY cause the same issues. Glad everyone now sees how each of us deal with the same problem, seems a lot of folks say the same thing but use different words.

Question for the helo mechanics in the crowd: what is the torque specs on the "Jesus Nut" for most birds? :smile:
Tom

The bell 206 series has a single nut, and I think it is around 300ft/lbs, the bell 407 has a single nut and it is somewhere around 800 ft/lbs. Most of the others have a large nut that is not really torqued, just hand tight, then 12 or so other smaller bolts are put on it and tightened up. This process of torqueing these small bolts can take 8 or more hours. You have to start at a low torque, torque till they stabilize then move up to the next torque. At certain stages you take measurements to see if you are in specs.

This is the main rotor head of a AW-139.

Here is the procedure.

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19HP twin only runs with choke 1/2 on

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