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10 Year Old Raptor Bogging Down
#1
R
rrichar1
R
rrichar1
I have a 2013 Hustler Raptor with a Kawasaki engine that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover or it acts like it’s going to die. I’ve had it happen once coming up out of a culvert without mower engaged while pulling a leaf picker upper attachment. The engine runs strong and sounds good but we have:
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
#2
M
mechanic mark
M
mechanic mark
Commercial or Residential use? Hours on Raptor?
Service Manual for your 691V KAW is listed above, see Troubleshooting Section, thanks Mark
Service Manual for your 691V KAW is listed above, see Troubleshooting Section, thanks Mark
#3
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
Keep throwing pars at it maybe you will find it sooner or later. Oh yea I forgot that is not throwing parts at it, it's the process of elemination.
#4
B
bertsmobile1
Following that I would have thought one would check the valve free heights in case one guide has slipped in the head
B
bertsmobile1
I find it amazing how people will happily start replacing part before they do simple things like check & adjust the valve lashI have a 2013 Hustler Raptor with a Kawasaki engine that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover or it acts like it’s going to die. I’ve had it happen once coming up out of a culvert without mower engaged while pulling a leaf picker upper attachment. The engine runs strong and sounds good but we have:
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
Following that I would have thought one would check the valve free heights in case one guide has slipped in the head
#5
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
What would they say if they brought it to one of us here who do this for a living and we told them we replaced all these parts and it didn't fix it. Sounds like he spent a lot of money and didn't fix it.
#6
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
What would they say if they brought it to one of us here who do this for a living and we told them we replaced all these parts and it didn't fix it. Sounds like he spent a lot of money and didn't fix it.
#7
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
I realize a couple of things here. You at least tried, but you didn’t diagnose and solve problem. You have not supplied enough specific information model numbers, hours, etc. Please don’t get upset and quit posting, we are trying to help. At this point, if you cannot figure it out, please take it to a shop. Basically sounds like fuel delivery issue to me (crap in tank, fuel outlet, line, filter). Let us know…What would they say if they brought it to one of us here who do this for a living and we told them we replaced all these parts and it didn't fix it. Sounds like he spent a lot of money and didn't fix it.
#8
R
rrichar1
R
rrichar1
Unknown, it’s a first generation Raptor I believe without an hour meter but it’s used in a residential setting. Probably use it 6 months a year for 18 hours a year so I would estimate 180-200 hours total.Commercial or Residential use? Hours on Raptor?
#9
R
rrichar1
R
rrichar1
I’m not a mechanic but have replaced what I could and had a real auto mechanic and a lawn mower mechanic most recently look at it but have upgraded to a Scag Freedom Z but would like to get it operational so I can sell. The lawnmower mechanic mainly just changed the vent filter and found some water in the gas and looked at the carburetor again. I misspoke, it’s not really just tall grass it’s normal height grass. The compression I’ve been told has been checked and is fine I’m told.I find it amazing how people will happily start replacing part before they do simple things like check & adjust the valve lash
Following that I would have thought one would check the valve free heights in case one guide has slipped in the head
#10
R
rrichar1
R
rrichar1
I’ve been traveling and haven’t had a chance to check the thread. I’m not upset and appreciate all the help I can get. So far I’ve probably spent $1K on a 10 year old mower I don’t use any more sod have replaced but originally intended on keeping but at this point it’s a surplus mower. I have another raptor form 2017 which has had issues to but has been a good mower. So at this point I don’t want to take it back to the last professional lawnmower repair company who worked on it last (see my other responses) and didn’t even bother to test drive and operate in the environment in which it has issues. So at this point I will try whatever this forum suggests (outside of major engine stuff) or just sell cheap, donate it or give it away. The engine model number is Kawasaki Fr691V BS24 from 2013. Hustler model number is 931899. Thanks for any advice y’all can give.I realize a couple of things here. You at least tried, but you didn’t diagnose and solve problem. You have not supplied enough specific information model numbers, hours, etc. Please don’t get upset and quit posting, we are trying to help. At this point, if you cannot figure it out, please take it to a shop. Basically sounds like fuel delivery issue to me (crap in tank, fuel outlet, line, filter). Let us know…
#11
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The problem with not diagnosing the malfunction in the first place is any or all of the parts replaced could be faulty or could have been installed incorrectly
Every thing you replaced is now considered faulty till proven to be good .
Have you checked the valve lash yet ?
have you checked that the valves are opening & closing yet ?
have you checked that both valves are at the same heights ?
Every thing you replaced is now considered faulty till proven to be good .
Have you checked the valve lash yet ?
have you checked that the valves are opening & closing yet ?
have you checked that both valves are at the same heights ?
#12
R
rrichar1
Thanks for the input and guidance.
R
rrichar1
No, I personally don’t have the mechanical skill set to do that and the first person who worked on it for me is my son in laws father who is a car mechanic and restored cars for a living who said the “compression is good” is that not proof of valve lash soundness? Granted he’s not a dedicated lawn mower repair mechanic like y’all but I trust him.The problem with not diagnosing the malfunction in the first place is any or all of the parts replaced could be faulty or could have been installed incorrectly
Every thing you replaced is now considered faulty till proven to be good .
Have you checked the valve lash yet ?
have you checked that the valves are opening & closing yet ?
have you checked that both valves are at the same heights ?
Thanks for the input and guidance.
#13
S
slomo
Take a picture of the lawn. Want to see what kind of grass you have. And show us how tall it is when you cut.
S
slomo
That tells me you need to cut more often or slow down.that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover
Take a picture of the lawn. Want to see what kind of grass you have. And show us how tall it is when you cut.
#14
R
rrichar1
R
rrichar1
I will but I just mowed what there was today with my other hustler raptor with the Kohler engine but we are in a severe drought here in Galveston county in Texas so all the San Augustine grass is dying. This raptor (unlike the problem raptor with the Kawasaki) is set at the third lowest setting and just plows through it easily. The Kawi raptor never struggled at the same setting until this year. And it’s not tall at all, I would say 4-5 inches/whatever a normal week growth is. I don’t let it get real high.That tells me you need to cut more often or slow down.
Take a picture of the lawn. Want to see what kind of grass you have. And show us how tall it is when you cut.
#15
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
Good compression check does not indicate you don't have a valve problem. Say you have a push rod off or a worn cam lobe it can still have good compression. Have you tried pulling one plug wire at a time to see if it is hitting one both cylinders.
#16
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Kawasaki have their service manuals on line as a free download
Should have the parts list there as well but it takes a bit of navigation to get there.
Usually there are 3 reasons for your symptoms
1) running on one cylinder ( leaking head gasket - bad ground cut off wire - valves not opening or closing properly )
2) governor malfunction
3) main jet problem
And if it was a B & S engine then you add leaking inlet manifold to that list
If one exhaust valve was not opening then you would have great compression on the dead cylinder
On top of that these engines have a cranking speed decompressor ( usually ) so cylinder compression numbers are meaningless
kawasaki quote 64 psi to 90 psi at cranking speeds
If a car engine gave those sorts of numbers you would be booking it in for a head gasket or new rings
So take the rocker covers off and check the valve lash & rockers
Cams have the same lift & valves are the same length so each valve should poke out the same amount when closed
Should have the parts list there as well but it takes a bit of navigation to get there.
Usually there are 3 reasons for your symptoms
1) running on one cylinder ( leaking head gasket - bad ground cut off wire - valves not opening or closing properly )
2) governor malfunction
3) main jet problem
And if it was a B & S engine then you add leaking inlet manifold to that list
If one exhaust valve was not opening then you would have great compression on the dead cylinder
On top of that these engines have a cranking speed decompressor ( usually ) so cylinder compression numbers are meaningless
kawasaki quote 64 psi to 90 psi at cranking speeds
If a car engine gave those sorts of numbers you would be booking it in for a head gasket or new rings
So take the rocker covers off and check the valve lash & rockers
Cams have the same lift & valves are the same length so each valve should poke out the same amount when closed
#17
Tiger Small Engine
Simply take it to shop, tell them what you have done, and they should have you up and running soon.
Tiger Small Engine
Original poster does not have the skills and knowledge to set valve clearance properly, etc.Kawasaki have their service manuals on line as a free download
Should have the parts list there as well but it takes a bit of navigation to get there.
Usually there are 3 reasons for your symptoms
1) running on one cylinder ( leaking head gasket - bad ground cut off wire - valves not opening or closing properly )
2) governor malfunction
3) main jet problem
And if it was a B & S engine then you add leaking inlet manifold to that list
If one exhaust valve was not opening then you would have great compression on the dead cylinder
On top of that these engines have a cranking speed decompressor ( usually ) so cylinder compression numbers are meaningless
kawasaki quote 64 psi to 90 psi at cranking speeds
If a car engine gave those sorts of numbers you would be booking it in for a head gasket or new rings
So take the rocker covers off and check the valve lash & rockers
Cams have the same lift & valves are the same length so each valve should poke out the same amount when closed
Simply take it to shop, tell them what you have done, and they should have you up and running soon.
#18
S
slomo
OR is it a deck issue with the mower in question? Some decks don't cut like others.
I'm guessing on an at times, partially clogged fuel tank. Dump and flush the tank/s out. Blow out with compressed air and safety glasses. Make sure the tank is in as new condition. All new fuel line from the tank/s to the carb. Make sure you have good flow TO the carb into a glass jar or similar.
S
slomo
You have St. Aug. in Texas, pretty cool. Grass should be low in moisture content if you are in a summer drought. Should be easy to cut.I will but I just mowed what there was today with my other hustler raptor with the Kohler engine but we are in a severe drought here in Galveston county in Texas so all the San Augustine grass is dying. This raptor (unlike the problem raptor with the Kawasaki) is set at the third lowest setting and just plows through it easily. The Kawi raptor never struggled at the same setting until this year. And it’s not tall at all, I would say 4-5 inches/whatever a normal week growth is. I don’t let it get real high.
OR is it a deck issue with the mower in question? Some decks don't cut like others.
I'm guessing on an at times, partially clogged fuel tank. Dump and flush the tank/s out. Blow out with compressed air and safety glasses. Make sure the tank is in as new condition. All new fuel line from the tank/s to the carb. Make sure you have good flow TO the carb into a glass jar or similar.
#19
J
Jareds small engine repai
J
Jareds small engine repai
I have a 2013 Hustler Raptor with a Kawasaki engine that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover or it acts like it’s going to die. I’ve had it happen once coming up out of a culvert without mower engaged while pulling a leaf picker upper attachment. The engine runs strong and sounds good but we have:
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
#20
J
Jareds small engine repai
J
Jareds small engine repai
I have a 2013 Hustler Raptor with a Kawasaki engine that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover or it acts like it’s going to die. I’ve had it happen once coming up out of a culvert without mower engaged while pulling a leaf picker upper attachment. The engine runs strong and sounds good but we have:
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
#21
J
Jareds small engine repai
J
Jareds small engine repai
replace your carb todays fuel is killer .Buy fuel from depot with no lead .This fuel can be left in machine for a year with no harm .You use reg fuel it kills when stored
#22
T
TRACTORTOWN
If it will not start and run with one plug wire off, then the cylinder with the wire off is the good cylinder. The other cylinder is not producing power.
Take that plug out and attach that plug wire to it, lay it on the metal shroud, crank the engine and watch the plug and see if it sparks.
If it does, ignition is not the problem, purchase or borrow a engine compression gauge. With all plugs out install the gauge on a cylinder, turn the key and crank it over at least 3 complete revolutions. Record the number. Then do the other cylinder, same procedure.
The numbers should be within 5psi of each other. If one had significantly lower psi or zero or almost zero you have to remove that cylinder’s valve cover and check for visual issues. If none seen you have deeper internal problems, such as a valve train problem, broken connecting rod, camshaft or head gasket failure.
Let us know what you find after your compression check.
T
TRACTORTOWN
What you describe sounds like its running on one cylinder only. Start it up and let it run for two minutes Turn it off and remove the spark plug wire on one cylinder. Try starting it right back up with the wire off. If starts turn it back off and put the plug wire back on and remove the other. Try starting again.I have a 2013 Hustler Raptor with a Kawasaki engine that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover or it acts like it’s going to die. I’ve had it happen once coming up out of a culvert without mower engaged while pulling a leaf picker upper attachment. The engine runs strong and sounds good but we have:
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
If it will not start and run with one plug wire off, then the cylinder with the wire off is the good cylinder. The other cylinder is not producing power.
Take that plug out and attach that plug wire to it, lay it on the metal shroud, crank the engine and watch the plug and see if it sparks.
If it does, ignition is not the problem, purchase or borrow a engine compression gauge. With all plugs out install the gauge on a cylinder, turn the key and crank it over at least 3 complete revolutions. Record the number. Then do the other cylinder, same procedure.
The numbers should be within 5psi of each other. If one had significantly lower psi or zero or almost zero you have to remove that cylinder’s valve cover and check for visual issues. If none seen you have deeper internal problems, such as a valve train problem, broken connecting rod, camshaft or head gasket failure.
Let us know what you find after your compression check.
#23
F
Freddie21
F
Freddie21
I think these guys' wives kicked them out of bed. Sure we need more info, but to rag on someone new to the forum is not necessary. Vacation time anyone? Be nice, or be gone.
#24
B
blaster 2023
B
blaster 2023
What is a Depot to buy fuel, The place where the Tanker trucks fill up to deliver to gas stations?replace your carb todays fuel is killer .Buy fuel from depot with no lead .This fuel can be left in machine for a year with no harm .You use reg fuel it kills when stored
#26
G
g-man57
G
g-man57
Someone above mentioned valves... I would get a feeler gauge and make sure you valves are set to factory specs. Check YouTube - probably a tutorial there.
#27
C
Cajun power
C
Cajun power
a compression test is like taking blood pressure...a leak down test is like taking an EKG....this analogy is useful when realizing just how much more investigative information can be collected when performing a leak down test on a small engine.
I would start there first. This will help you understand if there is in fact a valve lash problem...or something far more serious.
there are dozens of videos showing how to do a leak down test on a mower engine. And yes, there is a method to making sure you are at top dead center but also NOT WHEN THE ANTI COMPRESSION RELEASE CAMS have both valve popped slightly open..which is important to distinguish..The same distinction one needs to properly perform a valve clearance/lash.
if these things are above your skill set or time, just take it to a small engine shop and have them perform a leak down test. And then go from there. It's likely to be a valve clearance problem. But starting with a leak down will help you identify that, or that it might actually be something else other than a valve clearance problem.
I would start there first. This will help you understand if there is in fact a valve lash problem...or something far more serious.
there are dozens of videos showing how to do a leak down test on a mower engine. And yes, there is a method to making sure you are at top dead center but also NOT WHEN THE ANTI COMPRESSION RELEASE CAMS have both valve popped slightly open..which is important to distinguish..The same distinction one needs to properly perform a valve clearance/lash.
if these things are above your skill set or time, just take it to a small engine shop and have them perform a leak down test. And then go from there. It's likely to be a valve clearance problem. But starting with a leak down will help you identify that, or that it might actually be something else other than a valve clearance problem.
#28
doug9694
doug9694
What about a mulching blocking plate? If used in hi grass that may cause that. Also check that the blades are not up-side-down. Sharp edge must be lowest!I have a 2013 Hustler Raptor with a Kawasaki engine that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover or it acts like it’s going to die. I’ve had it happen once coming up out of a culvert without mower engaged while pulling a leaf picker upper attachment. The engine runs strong and sounds good but we have:
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
#29
C
CWatters
C
CWatters
I would clean out the fuel tank, the line to the filter and any fuel switch in that path.
Twice I've had bugs get in and mess with the fuel flow. They were big enough to partially block the fuel flow at the exit from the tank and at the switch. Replacing the filter alone may not be enough.
Last time it happened the engine would idle and run fast but bog down under high load.
I think the bugs climb into my fuel can filler spout and are then washed into the tank on the mower when I fill up. Took me ages to find this as I'd already changed the filter and some fuel flowed when the line was disconnected at the carb.
Twice I've had bugs get in and mess with the fuel flow. They were big enough to partially block the fuel flow at the exit from the tank and at the switch. Replacing the filter alone may not be enough.
Last time it happened the engine would idle and run fast but bog down under high load.
I think the bugs climb into my fuel can filler spout and are then washed into the tank on the mower when I fill up. Took me ages to find this as I'd already changed the filter and some fuel flowed when the line was disconnected at the carb.
#30
L
lowmow
If it is adjusted too lean the motor will net be able to respond to a rapid load change.
Was the main jet removed and cleaned on the carb?It is in the center of the carburetor.Sometimes a mechanic will neglect to remove and clean this jet,which is very important,it supplies the main fuel to the engine.There is also an emulsion tube that must be cleaned properly. The needle and seat must be checked and cleaned or replaced if worn or partially clogged.The float height must also be adjusted as specified or the carb will not get enough fuel for full load.Spraying carburetor cleaner in and on the carb is not sufficient.It must be dissembled and properly cleaned.
If the fuel line was not replaced,replace it.Sometimes they flake off inside the lines and restrict the fuel flow.
There is also a filter in the fuel tank,sometimes built into the fuel cutoff valve.Remlove the fuel cut off valve and check this.See if you can blow freely through the valve.Sometimes the get a build up of crud inside.
Check and clean/replace as necessary.
These are all fuel related problems.
There is also the possibility of a blown head gasket,but you said you did not want to work on the engine.It is a very simple repair if needed, refer to a shop repair manual.Basically,remove carb and exhaust and the head bolts,and rocker arms.
These are all of the things I have encountered in over 50 years of experience with motors over the years.
Let me know what you find,please,so that I may provide more help if needed,and add to my knowledge base.
I am too old to know it all,but not too old to learn new things.
Good luck!
L
lowmow
Sounds like fuel starvation.Does the carb have an idle adjustment screw? If so adjust to spec..I have a 2013 Hustler Raptor with a Kawasaki engine that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover or it acts like it’s going to die. I’ve had it happen once coming up out of a culvert without mower engaged while pulling a leaf picker upper attachment. The engine runs strong and sounds good but we have:
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
If it is adjusted too lean the motor will net be able to respond to a rapid load change.
Was the main jet removed and cleaned on the carb?It is in the center of the carburetor.Sometimes a mechanic will neglect to remove and clean this jet,which is very important,it supplies the main fuel to the engine.There is also an emulsion tube that must be cleaned properly. The needle and seat must be checked and cleaned or replaced if worn or partially clogged.The float height must also be adjusted as specified or the carb will not get enough fuel for full load.Spraying carburetor cleaner in and on the carb is not sufficient.It must be dissembled and properly cleaned.
If the fuel line was not replaced,replace it.Sometimes they flake off inside the lines and restrict the fuel flow.
There is also a filter in the fuel tank,sometimes built into the fuel cutoff valve.Remlove the fuel cut off valve and check this.See if you can blow freely through the valve.Sometimes the get a build up of crud inside.
Check and clean/replace as necessary.
These are all fuel related problems.
There is also the possibility of a blown head gasket,but you said you did not want to work on the engine.It is a very simple repair if needed, refer to a shop repair manual.Basically,remove carb and exhaust and the head bolts,and rocker arms.
These are all of the things I have encountered in over 50 years of experience with motors over the years.
Let me know what you find,please,so that I may provide more help if needed,and add to my knowledge base.
I am too old to know it all,but not too old to learn new things.
Good luck!
#31
G
GrumpyCat
Materials in a 2013 Kawasaki engine will be ethanol-safe. The problem with ethanol is that it carries water and it is the water which corrodes and gums things up. Vented, unsealed, small engine fuel systems will accumulate water. Water separates from ethanol-free fuel. Either stays in the bottom of the tank or it gets sucked in full strength.
G
GrumpyCat
Lead?replace your carb todays fuel is killer .Buy fuel from depot with no lead .This fuel can be left in machine for a year with no harm .You use reg fuel it kills when stored
Materials in a 2013 Kawasaki engine will be ethanol-safe. The problem with ethanol is that it carries water and it is the water which corrodes and gums things up. Vented, unsealed, small engine fuel systems will accumulate water. Water separates from ethanol-free fuel. Either stays in the bottom of the tank or it gets sucked in full strength.
#32
M
mcspeed
M
mcspeed
I understand how the pros see throwing parts at the problem is not a good approach. This is common behavior in many different aspects of life.
What I don’t understand is why they rag on the poster. People with problems they can’t solve tend to come here last not first so a helping hand goes much further than a tongue lashing. With your help they will learn and pass it on to others.
What I don’t understand is why they rag on the poster. People with problems they can’t solve tend to come here last not first so a helping hand goes much further than a tongue lashing. With your help they will learn and pass it on to others.
#33
A
Alex Ethridge
A
Alex Ethridge
I haven't been a mower mechanic since about 1982 and I have no knowledge of your specific machine but when I see a mower lose power in the way you describe, the first two things I check are valve adjustment and ignition timing. In the case if ignition timing, what I mean is to check for a sheared flywheel key.
#34
A
Alex Ethridge
A
Alex Ethridge
Agreed.I understand how the pros see throwing parts at the problem is not a good approach. This is common behavior in many different aspects of life.
What I don’t understand is why they rag on the poster. People with problems they can’t solve tend to come here last not first so a helping hand goes much further than a tongue lashing. With your help they will learn and pass it on to others.
#35
D
Davenj4f
D
Davenj4f
I recently had the same problem with my Ferris. Turns out the bearings in the spindles were all loose from wear. Once I replaced them, the mower never bogged down anymore.I have a 2013 Hustler Raptor with a Kawasaki engine that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover or it acts like it’s going to die. I’ve had it happen once coming up out of a culvert without mower engaged while pulling a leaf picker upper attachment. The engine runs strong and sounds good but we have:
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
#36
T
TobyU
You know that expression - measure twice, cut once? Well this is gather info and ask first - then touch the mower!
If people don't realize how serious of an error this is.... It will be far harder to stop more people from doing it.
I'm to the point that if a customer calls and I find out they have done anything to it under than try to start it....I really don't want to touch it.
It just makes my job harder and takes up more precious time I could be fixing more mowers.
Sure, I'm lazy about it
It makes my regularly 6 minutes of work into 12, maybe 25 or even 30.
I don't have time for that with 52 mowers sitting here in line!
Lol but it is true.
T
TobyU
They at least need a good scolding for doing it so they will remember NOT to do it the never l next timeI understand how the pros see throwing parts at the problem is not a good approach. This is common behavior in many different aspects of life.
What I don’t understand is why they rag on the poster. People with problems they can’t solve tend to come here last not first so a helping hand goes much further than a tongue lashing. With your help they will learn and pass it on to others.
You know that expression - measure twice, cut once? Well this is gather info and ask first - then touch the mower!
If people don't realize how serious of an error this is.... It will be far harder to stop more people from doing it.
I'm to the point that if a customer calls and I find out they have done anything to it under than try to start it....I really don't want to touch it.
It just makes my job harder and takes up more precious time I could be fixing more mowers.
Sure, I'm lazy about it
It makes my regularly 6 minutes of work into 12, maybe 25 or even 30.
I don't have time for that with 52 mowers sitting here in line!
Lol but it is true.
#37
Z
Zue
Z
Zue
Valves is a reasonable consideration to check. I sent at nominal .004/.006 “ for intake/exhaust. If that does not work have the carb recleaned using an ultrasonic cleaning bath. Do check spindles and idler pulleys on deck.
#38
M
mcspeed
M
mcspeed
I had a problem with my Kubota ZT mower and did all the normal stuff mentioned here. None of it worked. Yes I threw some parts at it, fuel pump, filter, cleaned carb, checked valve lash still had no power and ran poorly. I said F it and bought a new OEM carb……in the process of installing it I noticed a warped intake. Replaced that and it runs like new. I’m no expert but have rebuilt many motorcycle engines, auto transmissions and raced cars and did all the tuning and engine swaps. Maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed but I know how to do most stuff. The problem is so many ideas are thrown out on this fine forum that you still end up throwing a bit of parts and time at it. sometimes the “experts” don’t have the answer either LOL.
#39
D
Dpmulvan
D
Dpmulvan
Owning one of these mowers the first question what HP kawa and what size deck? Well known the 60 inch deck is a little too big for the motor When it’s running perfect. What do you mean tall grass?? What species and how tall. Valves checked at 300hours?
#40
C
Cajun power
Having said that..I have rhino skin. Always have. It doesn't bother me. And lawnmower forum has been a very good overall
I had a recent problem that highlighted this very situation: high revving and surging at all rpms'..from idle to wot...high revvs and surging.
the leak down test confirmed to be the valves were NOT the root case. the carb was cleaned and no issues and choke was not stuck closed. governor action was clean and proper. No fuel pump or fuel filter issues. wooddruff key was not slammed.
So I decided that the problem was likely head cylinder gasket...one or both. I got the after market copper gaskets because better squish and heat transfer and of course while it was open, cleaned the cylinder head, valve and seats and did a light lapping for good measure. Put in new plugs because it was over a year and they looked heat damaged. This did not solve the problem. The high revvs and surging continued. turns out the issue was the gaskets has blown on both intake manifolds, because the intake manifolds (made of aluminum) were slightly warped. Instead of replacing the intake manifolds, I installed my own slightly thicker gaskets and with some yamabond. Problems solved. root cause: blown head gasket failure due to high heat cycle because intake manifold was warped - air was getting sucked into cylinders after the carb and causing a serious lean condition, and because this was a kawa v twin (691), it also had the effect of surging. So it was two things. understanding the root cause is almost always a 20/20 perfect hindsight thing. But have a basic understanding of how the engine operates (normally) helps quite a bit when making good assumptions about where the problem (OR PROBLEMS ..plural, more than one) exist.
I am pretty sure what caused it: triple digits heat in south louisiana running the mower hard and getting caught in a surprise hard cold rain shower. Manifold intake distorted just enough to cause the gaskets to fail and open up.
In hindsight, I should have realized this as a lean condition and starting looking at the root cause of it, because the engine was running very hot...and the plugs are cooked.
It was that moment, when I modded all my mowers with a engine oil temp sensor...so I could monitor and shut down quickly. Probably the best thing I've done to engineer in a little preventative maintenance in my mower fleet. The air cooled engines operating in triple digit heat take a serious beating. All the maintenance schedules are of no use. Everything is done on a much shorter schedule because of it.
interestingly..the old vintage dixie chopper (silver eagle classic) with the generac motor and generac hydros has a really large oil cooler radiator, commercial duty oil pump, and oil radiator fan. It has not quit and has never had a problem with the heat. But it cuts like crap (old chain and sprocket suspended deck..that bounces way too much to make a clean cut) and so it's solely a mini bush hog, which it does very well for tall buffalo and even small bushes and undergrowth.
C
Cajun power
it cost nothing to throw dirt on someone. that's the number one problem with internet haters. do that in person...yeah, I don't think so. there WOULD BE A COST and CONSEQUENCE. behavior online has always been a strange experiment. I don't understand it but I know it's a real thing. And the weird part is that most of the negative people happen to be pretty good at a certain skill set. ego...I'm pretty sure that's the thing.I understand how the pros see throwing parts at the problem is not a good approach. This is common behavior in many different aspects of life.
What I don’t understand is why they rag on the poster. People with problems they can’t solve tend to come here last not first so a helping hand goes much further than a tongue lashing. With your help they will learn and pass it on to others.
Having said that..I have rhino skin. Always have. It doesn't bother me. And lawnmower forum has been a very good overall
yes, and sometimes, with the older mower, it's multiple issues. So you solve one and the problem does not go away until you solve the next..and the next..and the next. (this is common with older mowers that have not been well maintained).I had a problem with my Kubota ZT mower and did all the normal stuff mentioned here. None of it worked. Yes I threw some parts at it, fuel pump, filter, cleaned carb, checked valve lash still had no power and ran poorly. I said F it and bought a new OEM carb……in the process of installing it I noticed a warped intake. Replaced that and it runs like new. I’m no expert but have rebuilt many motorcycle engines, auto transmissions and raced cars and did all the tuning and engine swaps. Maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed but I know how to do most stuff. The problem is so many ideas are thrown out on this fine forum that you still end up throwing a bit of parts and time at it. sometimes the “experts” don’t have the answer either LOL.
I had a recent problem that highlighted this very situation: high revving and surging at all rpms'..from idle to wot...high revvs and surging.
the leak down test confirmed to be the valves were NOT the root case. the carb was cleaned and no issues and choke was not stuck closed. governor action was clean and proper. No fuel pump or fuel filter issues. wooddruff key was not slammed.
So I decided that the problem was likely head cylinder gasket...one or both. I got the after market copper gaskets because better squish and heat transfer and of course while it was open, cleaned the cylinder head, valve and seats and did a light lapping for good measure. Put in new plugs because it was over a year and they looked heat damaged. This did not solve the problem. The high revvs and surging continued. turns out the issue was the gaskets has blown on both intake manifolds, because the intake manifolds (made of aluminum) were slightly warped. Instead of replacing the intake manifolds, I installed my own slightly thicker gaskets and with some yamabond. Problems solved. root cause: blown head gasket failure due to high heat cycle because intake manifold was warped - air was getting sucked into cylinders after the carb and causing a serious lean condition, and because this was a kawa v twin (691), it also had the effect of surging. So it was two things. understanding the root cause is almost always a 20/20 perfect hindsight thing. But have a basic understanding of how the engine operates (normally) helps quite a bit when making good assumptions about where the problem (OR PROBLEMS ..plural, more than one) exist.
I am pretty sure what caused it: triple digits heat in south louisiana running the mower hard and getting caught in a surprise hard cold rain shower. Manifold intake distorted just enough to cause the gaskets to fail and open up.
In hindsight, I should have realized this as a lean condition and starting looking at the root cause of it, because the engine was running very hot...and the plugs are cooked.
It was that moment, when I modded all my mowers with a engine oil temp sensor...so I could monitor and shut down quickly. Probably the best thing I've done to engineer in a little preventative maintenance in my mower fleet. The air cooled engines operating in triple digit heat take a serious beating. All the maintenance schedules are of no use. Everything is done on a much shorter schedule because of it.
interestingly..the old vintage dixie chopper (silver eagle classic) with the generac motor and generac hydros has a really large oil cooler radiator, commercial duty oil pump, and oil radiator fan. It has not quit and has never had a problem with the heat. But it cuts like crap (old chain and sprocket suspended deck..that bounces way too much to make a clean cut) and so it's solely a mini bush hog, which it does very well for tall buffalo and even small bushes and undergrowth.
#41
R
rrichar1
R
rrichar1
Wow guys, thanks for all the responses! There are a lot of suggestions and will take under advisement but probably try draining the tank (again, the professional I took it says they did that) and replace the fuel line(s). We are at the end of season and in a drought but did mow this property this week with the other raptor. I replaced this problem raptor so at this point it’s a spare and can take my time dealing with it and will be kept as a mule, fixed or sold as is. I will come back and report what I found or what I did.
#42
L
louiewilmot955
L
louiewilmot955
My thought would be a head gasket or cracked head. Runs good cold but after hard work engine heats up and opened Crack an losses compression.I have a 2013 Hustler Raptor with a Kawasaki engine that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover or it acts like it’s going to die. I’ve had it happen once coming up out of a culvert without mower engaged while pulling a leaf picker upper attachment. The engine runs strong and sounds good but we have:
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
#43
J
jviews12
J
jviews12
I like ruling out possibilities. I would check the valves as suggested above. I would BLOW OUT OLD GAS AND TANK and start aclean. Just reverse blow fuel filter, do not change again. Blow out line from carb to pump, and test pump by taking output hose and dumping fuel into container to see if volume is an issue. Is carb shut-off valve restricting fuel flow? Lets us rule things out so that eventually there is nothing left. No more money spent until we rule out simple things please.
#44
T
TobyU
In the process of doing the basic checks for whatever the symptom is, they would likely spot other or unlikely causes like your warped intake.
Lol
They really know how to fix things.
T
TobyU
That's because the experts don't have the machine in front of them.I had a problem with my Kubota ZT mower and did all the normal stuff mentioned here. None of it worked. Yes I threw some parts at it, fuel pump, filter, cleaned carb, checked valve lash still had no power and ran poorly. I said F it and bought a new OEM carb……in the process of installing it I noticed a warped intake. Replaced that and it runs like new. I’m no expert but have rebuilt many motorcycle engines, auto transmissions and raced cars and did all the tuning and engine swaps. Maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed but I know how to do most stuff. The problem is so many ideas are thrown out on this fine forum that you still end up throwing a bit of parts and time at it. sometimes the “experts” don’t have the answer either LOL.
In the process of doing the basic checks for whatever the symptom is, they would likely spot other or unlikely causes like your warped intake.
Lol
They really know how to fix things.
#45
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
With the exception of things that have distinctive sounds like blown head gaskets then diagnosis is a matter of testing in a logical order ruling things out 1 at a time starting at the most common hen working through to the more obscure.
The big problems with forums is most responders will come in with that obscure fault that had them stumped for ages because that is the one they remember .
The most common reason for single cylinder engines failing to start is mal adjusted vales
The most common reason for twins to have no power is a dead cylinder
The big problems with forums is most responders will come in with that obscure fault that had them stumped for ages because that is the one they remember .
The most common reason for single cylinder engines failing to start is mal adjusted vales
The most common reason for twins to have no power is a dead cylinder
#46
R
Ronni
R
Ronni
Have you checked the cylinder compression? You might need a new shot block and/or cylinder head with new valves. That is what I had to do to revive my 2007 riding mower. It made all the difference.I have a 2013 Hustler Raptor with a Kawasaki engine that bogs down under load in high grass and I have to slow down to let it recover or it acts like it’s going to die. I’ve had it happen once coming up out of a culvert without mower engaged while pulling a leaf picker upper attachment. The engine runs strong and sounds good but we have:
Replaced:
- Both ignition coils
- Both spark plugs
- Mower blades
- Air filter
- mower belt
- fuel filter
- Fuel solenoid on carburetor
- Had the carburetor disassembled and cleaned.
- Replaced Fuel Evaporation System Filter
At a loss on what to try next. Maybe Spindles or PTO?
#47
T
TobyU
You are absolutely correct about the twins that the most common reason for no starts or no power is because it's only running on one cylinder for whatever reason.
On the singles on the riders I would say that it's not nearly as highly accurate of the percentages.
While a number of them do fail not to start because of misigested valves, a large number of them also have been pushrods, loosened rocker arm studs, and other valve train issues like slip valve guides or pop valve seats which causes no starts.
Now if we're talking about all mowers in general or push mowers, BY FAR it is not valve related at all. The most common reason for no starts on those is fuel delivery issues usually clogged up jets in the carburetor but still fuel or carburation issues and typically not enough of it.
Sometimes we make generalizations and then other people will come back and read the thread later and they may think we're referring to their specific thing when an actuality we were not.
T
TobyU
We also need to be careful about our generalized statements. When you just made these two statements, I believe you're referring to riders with single cylinder or twin cylinder engines.With the exception of things that have distinctive sounds like blown head gaskets then diagnosis is a matter of testing in a logical order ruling things out 1 at a time starting at the most common hen working through to the more obscure.
The big problems with forums is most responders will come in with that obscure fault that had them stumped for ages because that is the one they remember .
The most common reason for single cylinder engines failing to start is mal adjusted vales
The most common reason for twins to have no power is a dead cylinder
You are absolutely correct about the twins that the most common reason for no starts or no power is because it's only running on one cylinder for whatever reason.
On the singles on the riders I would say that it's not nearly as highly accurate of the percentages.
While a number of them do fail not to start because of misigested valves, a large number of them also have been pushrods, loosened rocker arm studs, and other valve train issues like slip valve guides or pop valve seats which causes no starts.
Now if we're talking about all mowers in general or push mowers, BY FAR it is not valve related at all. The most common reason for no starts on those is fuel delivery issues usually clogged up jets in the carburetor but still fuel or carburation issues and typically not enough of it.
Sometimes we make generalizations and then other people will come back and read the thread later and they may think we're referring to their specific thing when an actuality we were not.
#48
C
Cocoloco
C
Cocoloco
Same problem I changed a lot of engine components, it was the clutch kit worn out over 9 years of use, on my abused 42' Raptor, mine is a 2013 cutting 2.5 acres since new.
Attachments
#49
T
TobyU
Also, it will save wear and tear on your PTO clutch if you will engage your blades at a slightly lower than full engine RPM speed..
Don't do it so low that it almost kills the engine and shakes a lot on the belt and pulleys but somewhere around half speed maybe a little more than half works out well.
T
TobyU
Some of the older clutches have half inch nuts that you can adjust them you're supposed to use a feeler gauge to adjust the air gap but that doesn't look like it has one in that picture..Same problem I changed a lot of engine components, it was the clutch kit worn out over 9 years of use, on my abused 42' Raptor, mine is a 2013 cutting 2.5 acres since new.
Also, it will save wear and tear on your PTO clutch if you will engage your blades at a slightly lower than full engine RPM speed..
Don't do it so low that it almost kills the engine and shakes a lot on the belt and pulleys but somewhere around half speed maybe a little more than half works out well.
#50
C
Cocoloco
C
Cocoloco
I engage the clutch at low speed then rev up when the blades are in the right cutting height. Thanks for the tip.Some of the older clutches have half inch nuts that you can adjust them you're supposed to use a feeler gauge to adjust the air gap but that doesn't look like it has one in that picture..
Also, it will save wear and tear on your PTO clutch if you will engage your blades at a slightly lower than full engine RPM speed..
Don't do it so low that it almost kills the engine and shakes a lot on the belt and pulleys but somewhere around half speed maybe a little more than half works out well.