ZRT50 Starts with PTO Engaged

[tigercreek]

I recently acquired an RZT50 (2011). It starts, runs, cuts, etc.
After using it for some time I was performing some maintenance and discovered a second PTO switch connected under the panel. Four wires (orange sets and yellow sets) were run to one switch and two wires (blue and red - PTO control) were removed from the harness plug and connected directly to the second PTO switch.
Assuming this was a backyard repair using the wrong PTO switch, I purchased the correct switch, placed the red and blue wires back into the correct position in the harness plug and connected everything back up.
With the PTO switch in the off position I started the mower and the blades were engaged. I pulled up on the PTO switch that normally engages the blades and they disengaged.
I shut the mower down and tried to start in the "engaged" position with no luck - the safety switches seem to recognize that it is in the engaged position.
All of the replacement switches seem to have the same all normally closed pattern so I am at a loss of how to solve this. It's like I need a NC NC NO PTO switch to fix this. For now all I know to do is to remove the two PTO controlling wires from the switch and place them on a separate toggle switch to control the blade engagement.
Any ideas what could be causing this - or better yet how to fix it?

 

[StarTech]

Sound like got the switch wired wrong. The red and blue needs to be on the normally open terminals and you got them on the normally closed terminals.

For general wiring diagram need to know if this is a RZT or Z-Force mower. Also the model number from the serial number helps. They have different wiring setups.

 

[mechanic mark]

Cub Cadet Service Manuals

Manuals and Diagrams for Cub Cadet Mowers and Tractors. Factory Direct from Cub Cadet. Buy Parts for Less.

www.ccpartsnmore.com

Your Service Manual is above.

 

[tigercreek]

Cub Cadet Service Manuals

Manuals and Diagrams for Cub Cadet Mowers and Tractors. Factory Direct from Cub Cadet. Buy Parts for Less.

www.ccpartsnmore.com

Your Service Manual is above.

Thanks - but the specific or covered year for this RZT50 (2010) is not listed. I have been using the service manual from 2004 to get me by.

 

[tigercreek]

Sound like got the switch wired wrong. The red and blue needs to be on the normally open terminals and you got them on the normally closed terminals.

For general wiring diagram need to know if this is a RZT or Z-Force mower. Also the model number from the serial number helps. They have different wiring setups.

I agree - but every PTO switch (925-04174A) I can find that covers this mower has every connection NC . Don't have access to the SN at the moment but it is a 2010 RZT50 with the Kawasaki 22hp
I am attaching pictures of the plug, the switch and the diagram I have been following.

 

[StarTech]

Thanks - but the specific or covered year for this RZT50 (2010) is not listed. I have been using the service manual from 2004 to get me by.

I might able to find the wiring schematic if you post the real model number of the mower from the serial number tag. For now I going to assume it is one of the following models.

• Assemblies for RZT50 Kawasaki 17AI2ACP (2010) 17AI2ACP010 (2010) 17AI2ACP056 (2010) 17WI2ACP010 (2010) 17WI2ACP056 (2010)
• Electrical Schematic

I agree - but every PTO switch (925-04174A) I can find that covers this mower has every connection NC . Don't have access to the SN at the moment but it is a 2010 RZT50 with the Kawasaki 22hp
I am attaching pictures of the plug, the switch and the diagram I have been following.

View attachment 63270View attachment 63271View attachment 63272View attachment 63273

Disagree that diagram has the PTO clutch circuit show as NC they show NO with the PTO switch off. THe only NC connection is the starter circuit. You either have the Red or Blue wire in the wrong position. Look at the switch the Com terminal is for the Red wire the center slot in the same row is for the Blue wire but can be reversed without causing a problem. Either way you got to go from Com to center for the PTO clutch.

Make and Break connections

 

[tigercreek]

Thank you! I will verify those connections when I get back to the house.
If they are swapped as you are implying it means the PO swapped the OrWh/OrBk and the Red/Blue locations in the PTO plug.
As far as the NC NO confusion - I was referring to the switch being NC as stated on the side of the switch.
Hopefully it will be a swapped wire issue. Gotta wonder why someone would go to all the trouble to cause more trouble for themself?
Thanks again.

I might able to find the wiring schematic if you post the real model number of the mower from the serial number tag. For now I going to assume it is one of the following models.

• Assemblies for RZT50 Kawasaki 17AI2ACP (2010) 17AI2ACP010 (2010) 17AI2ACP056 (2010) 17WI2ACP010 (2010) 17WI2ACP056 (2010)
• Electrical Schematic

View attachment 63274


Disagree that diagram has the PTO clutch circuit show as NC they show NO with the PTO switch off. THe only NC connection is the starter circuit. You either have the Red or Blue wire in the wrong position. Look at the switch the Com terminal is for the Red wire the center slot in the same row is for the Blue wire but can be reversed without causing a problem. Either way you got to go from Com to center for the PTO clutch.

Make and Break connections
View attachment 63277

View attachment 63278

 

[StarTech]

Thank you! I will verify those connections when I get back to the house.
If they are swapped as you are implying it means the PO swapped the OrWh/OrBk and the Red/Blue locations in the PTO plug.
As far as the NC NO confusion - I was referring to the switch being NC as stated on the side of the switch.
Hopefully it will be a swapped wire issue. Gotta wonder why someone would go to all the trouble to cause more trouble for themself?
Thanks again.

It like the old stories I heard of where the guy refuses to ask for directions when he is lost and the get hopelessly lost. Some people just has no business anywhere near anything.

Just a personal opinion from all the screws up I had undo over the years. I once thought it only took a computer to really foul things but any more. It takes the IRS. I'm dealing the IRS on a problem now for over two years and everytime it straighten out someone comes back just screws it up again.

 

[tigercreek]

Switching the blue/red to or/or wire location did not work. Still started with the blades engaged. I then removed all wires from the plug and placed them to match the schematic. Still started engaged.
For confirmation, here is the model and serial # -
Model- 17A12ACP056
SN - 1E240H20176

Here are pictures with color coded placement of the corresponding wires.


Here are pictures of the pto switch and the continuity when engaged and disengaged.


And a little more on the back story -

Talked to the PO and they were not aware of how their mower had been “fixed”. This had been taken to a shop they no longer used due to unsatisfactory results.
Not sure how the original problem came about but the repair shop’s solution was to run the harness plug with the red/blue PTO wires removed to a correct PTO switch in the disengaged position and leave it hanging under the console - and then connect the red/blue PTO wires to a separate PTO switch mounted to the mower that would engage the PTO when in the “engage” position.
It was a solution but didn’t solve the problem.

Is it possible to have a PTO clutch that is working in reverse? (energize - disengage)

I am hoping that you will see something wrong that I am missing.

It like the old stories I heard of where the guy refuses to ask for directions when he is lost and the get hopelessly lost. Some people just has no business anywhere near anything.

Just a personal opinion from all the screws up I had undo over the years. I once thought it only took a computer to really foul things but any more. It takes the IRS. I'm dealing the IRS on a problem now for over two years and everytime it straighten out someone comes back just screws it up again.

 

[StarTech]

You did exactly what I thought you did. Swap the wire positions as indicated. Hopefully you not wearing out your wife's bobbie pin.