XT1 LT42e

[MikeQBF]

[Searched the forum for comments/critiques about the LT42e and didn't find anything, so pardon any duplication from this forum noob.]

The hydro trans on my Craftsman/Husqvarna 42" shot craps a couple of weeks ago and the cost of repairing was far more than it was worth, so I bit the bullet and bought the only reasonable electric lawn tractor on the market, the CC LX1 LT42e. Reasonable, that is, in size and function... certainly not reasonable in price relative to the same thing with a gas engine! But like my sig says, I'm committing to electric lawn maintenance when each tool comes up for replacement. Bought an EGO 21" pusher this past spring and like the heck out of it - quiet, great cut, bags nicely, so I'm a convert.

I have a little over an acre to mow; flat with five trees and four buildings to navigate around. The lawn itself is a mongrel (long story) and very uneven. Rains this summer have made for big challenges keeping it under control.

The CC is a damnsight easier to maneuver than the Craftsman was, and my shoulders are very thankful for it! The LT42e's cut is a lot more even than the old machine, although after today's mow I think I have it set too low, now finally noticing some scalping from bouncing around in the less-smooth areas. The ride is a little rougher than I am used to, but tolerable. The controls are not very refined. Getting it going is like patting your head and rubbing your tummy, while chewing gum. Once you've recited the Hail Marys and have the blades going it's fine. I curse the LCD display for its lack of backlighting - there is sometimes critical information you need to know after being scolded by a warning beep, and unless you are in full daylight you just can't read the display. "Fuel" (battery) gauge is a whopping four LEDs; if the LCD was readable you could read its bar graph to a percentage of charge left, but you're only given that information on power-up.

Charging is also a fraught process. I was firmly advised by the dealer tech to plug in the charging cable before plugging in the (separate) charger to 110V, reversing that process on removing from charging. (I happen to be familiar with the brand of charger they use - DeltaQ - and know the hard way that not following those instructions can result in bad things.) Charger gets very hot, so be careful where you put it; this is also a concern because my other electric appliance with a DeltaQ charger tends to need a replacement every three years or so, and "hot" means wear-and-tear. Haven't had a chance to fully verify that it can do the entire acre on a single charge, but so far I think it can with plenty to spare. It's supposed to go from "empty" to fully-charged in 4-6 hours, and so far I have no reason to doubt that.

It's silent, or nearly so, until engaging the blades. Then it's almost as noisy as any normal gasoline version, although it's not loud enough to send me running for the hearing protectors that I absolutely had to use with the Craftsman and its 18HP one-banger.

Despite the nitpicks I am enjoying the LT42e.

In full disclosure, I am having a problem where it complains about an overheated deck (blade) motor after about a half-hour of operation. Shutting it down for 10 minutes to cool gives another 10 of mowing, and then the same warning appears. I'm going to ask the dealer about this on Monday, but I think I know the answer already - cut height set too low and it's straining on the deep cut. If it was a gasser you'd know this immediately from the engine bogging down; in the case of a modern electric drive the computer's priority is to maintain blade speed, so it supplies more power than it really should for long periods, heating things up accordingly.

 

[MikeQBF]

Confirmed: deck motor temperature warnings were due to cut set too low. I shouldn't be trying to make putting greens out of a trash lawn.

 

[cruzenmike]

Thanks for your review. I am very intrigued by this new generation of battery operated riding mowers. As for the noise from the deck, this is inevitable as your mower carries 2-1 blades which generate a lot of wind (air) noise; same as gas rider. I am sure that a wavy mulching blade or a low lift style would quiet that deck down significantly if your turf and mowing schedule would allow for it.

I have a dealer near me that is selling the RZT-S 42 electric for a hella good price but that model carries the older Ni-Cd batteries I think. Combine that with a not so generous warranty, I just think that it is asking for hefty repair costs in a couple of years. I honestly don't know why a lot of these mowers don't just use deep cycle car/lawn cart batteries with smart chargers. Lithium ion has many advantages in providing more consistent power from full to dead but are significantly more expensive to replace.

Anyway, thanks again and I hope that your higher cut height continues to resolve your motor overheating problem.

 

[MikeQBF]

... I honestly don't know why a lot of these mowers don't just use deep cycle car/lawn cart batteries with smart chargers. ...

Many reasons. Lead-acid batteries have what is called a linear discharge curve. This is where the available voltage decreases with use. Second, as the charge is depleted, high loads cause the voltage to sag even further, rebounding only when the load is removed. These two conspire to make the usable energy for real work about half of the rated capacity. It also makes measuring remaining "fuel" an approximate guess at best. In so many words, they quit a lot sooner than you would think, and with less notice than you'd expect.

They also require very disciplined attention to charging. Get in a hurry and forget to plug in the charger after use even once or twice, and you shorten their life. Repeated deep discharging - more than 50% of capacity - also shortens life, considerably. Forgetting about 'em in the shed during off-season without a maintenance charger is fatal. "Life" in the case of most well-designed deep-cycle lead-acid batteries is roughly 300 discharge cycles, and that's with attentive treatment. IOW, they are consumed, and fail altogether a lot more than folks without hands-on experience realize.

Then there is all the weight you have to lug around.

Li-Ion solves almost all of that. The available power is surprisingly constant. You get about 80% of rated capacity, and then power falls off a cliff. Easier to predict, much longer useful work time. They are much, much lighter per contained power. Not weightless, obviously, but roughly 1/4 the weight of the same capacity in lead-acid. More tolerant of poor attention to recharging, with nearly all systems capable of 1000-1200 discharge cycles.

I'm not regurgitating marketing hype... I've owned an "old school" electric car for 18 years and know all of this the (very) hard way. It turns out that I would have been better off by just buying a cheap subcompact in the beginning, because the replacement cost of batteries (on my fourth set now) amounted to the gasoline cost of something that gets 16-18 mpg. It was false economy, even when gas was $4.50 a gallon. The early electric car fan-boys weren't telling the whole story. Modern electric cars with their high-tech motor control systems and expensive Li-Ion batteries don't exactly break the lifetime cost barrier, but at least they're a heckuva lot closer to break-even.

There has been lead-acid powered "cordless" lawn equipment around for several years, mostly small push mowers. They didn't catch on, for good reason. I've also recently seen a couple of lead-acid-based small riders; Home Depot is currently clearing out a couple of models. The larger version uses the same batteries as in my car, and I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole for that reason alone; been there, have the t-shirt.

Program Note: I write this doctoral thesis (ha!) as I am rushing out the door and will be away from the computer for several days. I hate it, too, when somebody drops a bomb like this and then disappears. Please accept my apologies for not being able to respond to any questions or comments 'til we're back.

 

[cruzenmike]

Many reasons. Lead-acid batteries have what is called a linear discharge curve. This is where the available voltage decreases with use. Second, as the charge is depleted, high loads cause the voltage to sag even further, rebounding only when the load is removed. These two conspire to make the usable energy for real work about half of the rated capacity. It also makes measuring remaining "fuel" an approximate guess at best. In so many words, they quit a lot sooner than you would think, and with less notice than you'd expect.

They also require very disciplined attention to charging. Get in a hurry and forget to plug in the charger after use even once or twice, and you shorten their life. Repeated deep discharging - more than 50% of capacity - also shortens life, considerably. Forgetting about 'em in the shed during off-season without a maintenance charger is fatal. "Life" in the case of most well-designed deep-cycle lead-acid batteries is roughly 300 discharge cycles, and that's with attentive treatment. IOW, they are consumed, and fail altogether a lot more than folks without hands-on experience realize.

Then there is all the weight you have to lug around.

Li-Ion solves almost all of that. The available power is surprisingly constant. You get about 80% of rated capacity, and then power falls off a cliff. Easier to predict, much longer useful work time. They are much, much lighter per contained power. Not weightless, obviously, but roughly 1/4 the weight of the same capacity in lead-acid. More tolerant of poor attention to recharging, with nearly all systems capable of 1000-1200 discharge cycles.

I'm not regurgitating marketing hype... I've owned an "old school" electric car for 18 years and know all of this the (very) hard way. It turns out that I would have been better off by just buying a cheap subcompact in the beginning, because the replacement cost of batteries (on my fourth set now) amounted to the gasoline cost of something that gets 16-18 mpg. It was false economy, even when gas was $4.50 a gallon. The early electric car fan-boys weren't telling the whole story. Modern electric cars with their high-tech motor control systems and expensive Li-Ion batteries don't exactly break the lifetime cost barrier, but at least they're a heckuva lot closer to break-even.

There has been lead-acid powered "cordless" lawn equipment around for several years, mostly small push mowers. They didn't catch on, for good reason. I've also recently seen a couple of lead-acid-based small riders; Home Depot is currently clearing out a couple of models. The larger version uses the same batteries as in my car, and I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole for that reason alone; been there, have the t-shirt.

Program Note: I write this doctoral thesis (ha!) as I am rushing out the door and will be away from the computer for several days. I hate it, too, when somebody drops a bomb like this and then disappears. Please accept my apologies for not being able to respond to any questions or comments 'til we're back.

You mention the difference between LA and Li-ion but what about Ni-Cd? I would have to think that if the batteries used in the Steering Wheel Cub Cadet only last 300 charge cycles as well, the cost to own overall would not be any cheaper over a 10 year period considering the higher battery cost. Likely cannot convert to lithium very cheap easily. All I was getting at is that companies like Ryobi have brought out Lead Acid powered units very recently and at a more reasonable price as compared to the Lithium powered ones. It all comes down to where you absorb that cost.

 

[MikeQBF]

You mention the difference between LA and Li-ion but what about Ni-Cd? ...

In a word, NiCads are passé.

Lithium-based systems are overall a superior solution. For one thing, Li-Ion is cheaper to manufacture for the equivalent capacity. Then, products containing NiCads were barred from sale in the Eurozone in 2016 due to cadmium-content regulations. So any US equipment manufacturer exporting to Europe has to toe that line and offer non-NiCad power sources. You want to design and build for all markets when you can.

And size matters. Li Ion has much better power density. For instance, to get 3AH @ ~3V, it takes three C-sized NiCad cells. Li Ion? A single 18650, slightly larger than a AA. Also less weight.

My lifetime career (now retired) has involved NiCads in one capacity or another since 1973 (aircraft and communications, mostly). I'm glad to see 'em go away.

 

[ILENGINE]

My only complaint with the battery operated stuff is it seems like they are discontinuing the batteries or other required components about 3 years or less from original manufacture and being replaced with newer items. So what is going to happen to all those battery tools with faulty batteries and no replacement available.

Enjoy your new battery rider until you have to replace those $2000 batteries.

 

[MikeQBF]

Call it an "early-adopter tax".

Oh, yeah, I know what you mean! It is sort of a teething-pains issue as everyone jockeys for market position. I'm less concerned about this with the CC rider because it's not relying on a consumer-handled modular battery system, but an allegedly "non-user-serviceable" component hidden in a (literal!) black box. I have some confidence that I will be able to source the OEM replacement at half CC's cost if I have to, but OTOH I think the battery might outlast the chassis the way I go through mowers.

It is a major PITA that everybody needs to have their own "advanced battery system" to keep you locked into their ecosystem. EGO is doing this in an interesting way, however - their upcoming z-turn uses their existing drop-in 7.5AH module. Four of them, at a replacement cost of $200-250 if you shop for pulls. No, still not cheap. (I am skeptical about the z-turn. If it's designed anything like their push mower, there's going to be too much plastic. I really like my EGO pusher, but a rider designed this way won't survive the abuse.)

That CC doesn't currently list the battery (or batteries) on their parts page does give one pause, tho'. They list things like deck motors ($400!) which I guess are damage/wear replacement parts. I've dinged a few spindles in my day, so am gritting my teeth about how much of a beating CC's motors are going to take.

 

[kensiko]

Hello, I joined the forum because I'm having a hard time figuring out which electric riding mower to buy. The cub Cadet one seems good but the reliability seems to be lacking so I'm contacting owners to know how it's been

 

[MikeQBF]

I'm not a good one to ask - only about 30 hours on it. Had one trip to the shop @10 hours for a deck motor overheat error, it turned out to be a loose connection from the factory. Easily corrected at the shop. Been good since.

Now as far as it works as a lawn tractor versus a pure mower, it did a great job overseeding and then rolling the lawn month before last. Did the whole acre - two passes - on a single charge, with power to spare.