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Ultima ZT2 surging
#1
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
Took my mower to the dealer to get the drive oil changed. Was recommended to change it at 100 hours and then every 400 hours. After I got the mower back I noticed it was harder to start than it usually was and when I did get it started it puffed some smoke and ran a lot faster at just idle than normal. Have owned the mower for 2 1/2 years so have learned its tendencies and such. When I put the throttle full it sounded much loader and faster and much higher rpms and when I engaged the blades and started mowing it sounded like the motor was "surging". Sounds like it is "bumping" up to the governor and back off . It has a rrR rrR rrR sound but only when the blades are engaged not when they are not. I used to able to mow my yard 2 times give or take every tank but the last 3 times I mowed there is only about 1" of gas left in tank. Went to the dealer and complained about it and they pulled the report and it said the rpms was at 32?? rpms and was supposed to be at 36?? rpms so they set them up to what the factory specs were recommended. Told them about the hard starting and smoke so they told me to bring it back. I did and told the guy at the counter that it used to run and start fantastic and to put it back the way it was and they said they could. Got the mower back and when I started it, it was better but not the same and every now and then it will still puff a little smoke (not as much) but a little and not every time. Called and was connected to the mechanic and told him all of this and he said the rpms was set back to 34?? and I asked him why he didn't set it back to where it was as I was told they would. He said he was never told that. I told him I bring my mower in to replace the hydro oil and they mess with it and screw it up and they sent me a bill for them to try and fix their screw up. It still "sounds" like it is surging, not as prominent as before but it is still there. The mechanic said if I wanted to bring it back and talk directly to him that he can put the meter on it and set it to the 32?? rpms. My question is will it hurt the 691v Kawasaki motor for it to run that way or just run it. It used more gas than normal last mowing but not as much as it did when I first got it back. Looking for insight about what I should do or not do. Thanks.
#3
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
First of all, check your attitude and have a little patience. We are not at your beck and call. Do you assume the technicians on this site are waiting to serve others and should provide answers within 24 hours, we do have other lives and commitments., especially on the weekends. Service manual does say high speed, no load RPMs should be at 3600. Second, as a technician when we see that things are not up to spec, we set them where the manual recommends. Others complain that it should be done even though we weren’t told to do so. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t. More than likely you have a fuel delivery problem that you were unaware of, due to the low speed setting. It manifested itself when the RPMs were set properly. How you want to proceed is up to you, but you are not going to get any sympathy from the techs on this site with your failure to understand what techs have to do to please every customer. Most understand, others RANT. Your can now get mad at me and hit the ignore button.
#4
StarTech
StarTech
Plus as Rivets some of us work all week at our own shops. Personally my shop is operated 6 days 10 hrs/day every week. Sundays are my day to get my own things done. I only stopping now as I awaiting a couple of my gals to lay. Then I going the grocery store, Auto parts store, HFT a couple items and then when get that done it my housework and yard work plus formatting and updating my business software with new price files.
Now we also need the actual model numbers of mower and the model and spec numbers of the engine for us to see what you in front of you as we are not all seeing.
Now there three base versions of the Kawasaki 691V (FS, FR, and FX). Idle speed is set at a base of 1450 with a governed idle speed of 1550. If not done correctly then governor will act up.
From the service manual these are the idle speeds
Also note that just because the hydro oil was change does not mean something else hasn't happen in the meantime. I just had a mower that was running when the customer picked it but before it got unloaded at the customer's home it started acting up. A piece of metal that another didn't keep track of started causing problems.
Now we also need the actual model numbers of mower and the model and spec numbers of the engine for us to see what you in front of you as we are not all seeing.
Now there three base versions of the Kawasaki 691V (FS, FR, and FX). Idle speed is set at a base of 1450 with a governed idle speed of 1550. If not done correctly then governor will act up.
From the service manual these are the idle speeds
Also note that just because the hydro oil was change does not mean something else hasn't happen in the meantime. I just had a mower that was running when the customer picked it but before it got unloaded at the customer's home it started acting up. A piece of metal that another didn't keep track of started causing problems.
#5
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
You mean you actually get Sunday off. I spend this morning taking care of a local farmerswhose seed tender wouldn't start and they can't load their planter without. it. Symptom was they had ran it out of gas, refilled it, and then it wouldn't restart. They got is running temporarily but then died and wouldn't restart. Replaced the flooded plug, and then had no spark. Found that the issue is with the wiring on the Meridian seed tender. Will not start with the key switch but did get it were it would start with the remote control.Plus as Rivets some of us work all week at our own shops. Personally my shop is operated 6 days 10 hrs/day every week. Sundays are my day to get my own things done. I only stopping now as I awaiting a couple of my gals to lay. Then I going the grocery store, Auto parts store, HFT a couple items and then when get that done it my housework and yard work plus formatting and updating my business software with new price files.
Now we also need the actual model numbers of mower and the model and spec numbers of the engine for us to see what you in front of you as we are not all seeing.
Now there three base versions of the Kawasaki 691V (FS, FR, and FX). Idle speed is set at a base of 1450 with a governed idle speed of 1550. If not done correctly then governor will act up.
From the service manual these are the idle speeds
View attachment 68694
Also note that just because the hydro oil was change does not mean something else hasn't happen in the meantime. I just had a mower that was running when the customer picked it but before it got unloaded at the customer's home it started acting up. A piece of metal that another didn't keep track of started causing problems.
#6
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Must be part of the “I want it now and don’t do it later because I’m helping you out by coming to you” generation. These guys are the ones which since I retired I don’t miss. Got one down the road who never gets his back in less than three days, even though I fixed it the day he brought it in. I don’t know why he keeps coming back. Just got a call while grocery shop, good old fart can’t get his tractor started. Told him I’d be there after I filled the pantry. Said he’d have a cold one ready for me, but it could rain tomorrow, I’ll do it today.
#7
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
One I don’t have an attitude. Seems the “attitude” is coming from you. Was just wanting info what I can do and if my mower was “surging” during operation would hurt it which you as a “ technician“ never answered any question I had. 2 was not only asking technicians only but anyone including owners of mowers that have noticed the same symptoms of their mowers and what they have done or had done to remedy their problem. Sorry you can’t or won’t understand us non mechanics. Since no one chimed in I was thinking mine was an anomaly.First of all, check your attitude and have a little patience. We are not at your beck and call. Do you assume the technicians on this site are waiting to serve others and should provide answers within 24 hours, we do have other lives and commitments., especially on the weekends. Service manual does say high speed, no load RPMs should be at 3600. Second, as a technician when we see that things are not up to spec, we set them where the manual recommends. Others complain that it should be done even though we weren’t told to do so. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t. More than likely you have a fuel delivery problem that you were unaware of, due to the low speed setting. It manifested itself when the RPMs were set properly. How you want to proceed is up to you, but you are not going to get any sympathy from the techs on this site with your failure to understand what techs have to do to please every customer. Most understand, others RANT. Your can now get mad at me and hit the ignore button.
#8
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Guess your reading skills also need improvement. Both Star and I answered your question, plus Star went one step farther and explained how wrong idle speed can cause surging. The anomaly here is that we gave you an answer, but it is not the one you wanted, so we are as bad at being technicians as the one you took your unit to. I hope you are more skilled at your occupation than we are at ours.
#9
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
Where do you get off belittling people who are looking for information and A) don’t understand what some are saying and B) don’t have the knowledge to input what is said to them. Also never said anything about what Star said. You brought him into this conversation. Only answered your derogatory comments about me and yes was very competent and skilled at what I did for a living for 42 years. Can’t comment about your ability as I don’t know what you can or can’t do. People skills apparently are not your strong point but to each his own. That is why I came here for some help but all you wanted to do is be condescending to me any way you could. In my profession I had to talk to people who I was working for in terms of what they could understand. Some were more open and had the ability to understand and some weren’t so sometimes I had to dumb it down and talk English that they could understand but you haven’t the capability of understanding what some can and can’t understand.
#10
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
Thanks for the reply. I bought the mower new and for 2 1/2 years the mower performed flawlessly. Started very easy and run like a top at slower throttle as well as full throttle. Always when the blades were engaged the throttle was full and never had the surging sound. It only has the surging sound only after they messed with the rpm’s and the surging is only noticeable at full throttle when the blades are engaged and not when it is full throttle with them not engaged. I am not a mechanic and never has been but thought it odd that now this is happening. You posted that idle speed should be 1450, now I don’t know what that should sound like but after they adjusted the rpm’s the idle seems really higher pitch and fast so didn’t know if there was a correlation between the 2 or not.Plus as Rivets some of us work all week at our own shops. Personally my shop is operated 6 days 10 hrs/day every week. Sundays are my day to get my own things done. I only stopping now as I awaiting a couple of my gals to lay. Then I going the grocery store, Auto parts store, HFT a couple items and then when get that done it my housework and yard work plus formatting and updating my business software with new price files.
Now we also need the actual model numbers of mower and the model and spec numbers of the engine for us to see what you in front of you as we are not all seeing.
Now there three base versions of the Kawasaki 691V (FS, FR, and FX). Idle speed is set at a base of 1450 with a governed idle speed of 1550. If not done correctly then governor will act up.
From the service manual these are the idle speeds
View attachment 68694
Also note that just because the hydro oil was change does not mean something else hasn't happen in the meantime. I just had a mower that was running when the customer picked it but before it got unloaded at the customer's home it started acting up. A piece of metal that another didn't keep track of started causing problems.
#11
StarTech
One Briggs price file set modified and now need the three files merged before importing. This way all the supersedes are properly applied. Also got the formatting under CSV format especially checking for stray commas in description field.
Now the posted idle speeds are set independently of each other but they do interact with each too.
While the engine is running.
If the tech set this up properly and the engine is still surging then there is a problem with the carburetor most likely; like it needs at least a good cleaning. Usually when under load surging is caused by a dirty carburetor or valves out adjustment or both.
And as a shop I can't assume anything as I don't who all has fooled with the equipment that comes in into my shop. I just had an Exmark that came that several other techs had mess with the engine trying to get the surging out. They had both carb idle and govern idle speeds the same plus also had removed the fuel filter and inverted it on reinstall sending a lot trash into the carburetor. It took me 4x cleaning it to get all the grass out of the carburetor.
Also Kawasaki engines are know to smoke at start up if anything other than 15W50 or 20W50 oil is use. This is why Kawasaki sells a SAE15W50 synthetic oil.
StarTech
Yes I get Sundays off from regular work. It is one thing my boss insists on. Besides no one like paying my Sunday rates which is not as bad as our 2am rates.You mean you actually get Sunday off. I spend this morning taking care of a local farmerswhose seed tender wouldn't start and they can't load their planter without. it. Symptom was they had ran it out of gas, refilled it, and then it wouldn't restart. They got is running temporarily but then died and wouldn't restart. Replaced the flooded plug, and then had no spark. Found that the issue is with the wiring on the Meridian seed tender. Will not start with the key switch but did get it were it would start with the remote control.
One Briggs price file set modified and now need the three files merged before importing. This way all the supersedes are properly applied. Also got the formatting under CSV format especially checking for stray commas in description field.
Nor do I. That is why I use tachometer to set these idle speeds. There is no way I can tell the difference between 100 change.Thanks for the reply. I bought the mower new and for 2 1/2 years the mower performed flawlessly. Started very easy and run like a top at slower throttle as well as full throttle. Always when the blades were engaged the throttle was full and never had the surging sound. It only has the surging sound only after they messed with the rpm’s and the surging is only noticeable at full throttle when the blades are engaged and not when it is full throttle with them not engaged. I am not a mechanic and never has been but thought it odd that now this is happening. You posted that idle speed should be 1450, now I don’t know what that should sound like but after they adjusted the rpm’s the idle seems really higher pitch and fast so didn’t know if there was a correlation between the 2 or not.
Now the posted idle speeds are set independently of each other but they do interact with each too.
While the engine is running.
- First the carburetor idle speed is set while holding the throttle plate closed.
- Then govern idle speed is set.
- And finally the high idle speed (off load full throttle speed) is set.
If the tech set this up properly and the engine is still surging then there is a problem with the carburetor most likely; like it needs at least a good cleaning. Usually when under load surging is caused by a dirty carburetor or valves out adjustment or both.
And as a shop I can't assume anything as I don't who all has fooled with the equipment that comes in into my shop. I just had an Exmark that came that several other techs had mess with the engine trying to get the surging out. They had both carb idle and govern idle speeds the same plus also had removed the fuel filter and inverted it on reinstall sending a lot trash into the carburetor. It took me 4x cleaning it to get all the grass out of the carburetor.
Also Kawasaki engines are know to smoke at start up if anything other than 15W50 or 20W50 oil is use. This is why Kawasaki sells a SAE15W50 synthetic oil.
#12
T
tbmmbt
I don’t usually believe in coincidences but seems odd this surging just happen to start when they messed with the settings on this. The mechanic at the shop told me to bring it back and he will try to make it right. He also said some kid who worked there was the one that did the adjustment so not feeling to confident if that guy is going to adjust it again. I am at a loss at how I am going to get my mower back to the way it ran and performed before it went in for the drive oil to be changed. Was going to change it myself but thought it would be better to let a shop that sells and services the Cub Cadets change it but I see how that worked out for me.
T
tbmmbt
I change my own oil and filter and have used the Mobil 1 15w50 on the last 2 changes. If there is possibly the carb being dirty, what do you recommend? I have some sea foam that I run through my motorcycle from time to time but if there is something you like better, let me know when you have time. Do the Kawasaki valves need adjusting from time to time?Yes I get Sundays off from regular work. It is one thing my boss insists on. Besides no one like paying my Sunday rates which is not as bad as our 2am rates.
One Briggs price file set modified and now need the three files merged before importing. This way all the supersedes are properly applied. Also got the formatting under CSV format especially checking for stray commas in description field.
Nor do I. That is why I use tachometer to set these idle speeds. There is no way I can tell the difference between 100 change.
Now the posted idle speeds are set independently of each other but they do interact with each too.
While the engine is running.
If the govern idle speed is the same as the carburetor idle speed then engine will surge as even at the full throttle, the throttle plate is very close to same amount of opening.
- First the carburetor idle speed is set while holding the throttle plate closed.
- Then govern idle speed is set.
- And finally the high idle speed (off load full throttle speed) is set.
If the tech set this up properly and the engine is still surging then there is a problem with the carburetor most likely; like it needs at least a good cleaning. Usually when under load surging is caused by a dirty carburetor or valves out adjustment or both.
And as a shop I can't assume anything as I don't who all has fooled with the equipment that comes in into my shop. I just had an Exmark that came that several other techs had mess with the engine trying to get the surging out. They had both carb idle and govern idle speeds the same plus also had removed the fuel filter and inverted it on reinstall sending a lot trash into the carburetor. It took me 4x cleaning it to get all the grass out of the carburetor.
Also Kawasaki engines are know to smoke at start up if anything other than 15W50 or 20W50 oil is use. This is why Kawasaki sells a SAE15W50 synthetic oil.
I don’t usually believe in coincidences but seems odd this surging just happen to start when they messed with the settings on this. The mechanic at the shop told me to bring it back and he will try to make it right. He also said some kid who worked there was the one that did the adjustment so not feeling to confident if that guy is going to adjust it again. I am at a loss at how I am going to get my mower back to the way it ran and performed before it went in for the drive oil to be changed. Was going to change it myself but thought it would be better to let a shop that sells and services the Cub Cadets change it but I see how that worked out for me.
#13
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
Kawasaki like other engines do need valve adjustments. The seafoam may not fix the issue but is worth a shot. It could help. What I have seen in some cases is a partial clogged jet that will run fine at just below full throttle, but will surge at full throttle. So there is possibility of a dirty carb. But the surge could be due to a governor sensitivity issue the presented itself with the higher rpm.
#14
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
Thanks for the info. Will give the seafoam a try and see where it goes. Is the governor something that can be adjusted?Kawasaki like other engines do need valve adjustments. The seafoam may not fix the issue but is worth a shot. It could help. What I have seen in some cases is a partial clogged jet that will run fine at just below full throttle, but will surge at full throttle. So there is possibility of a dirty carb. But the surge could be due to a governor sensitivity issue the presented itself with the higher rpm.
#15
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
The only governor adjustment is more or less static adjustment. The engine speed changes are done with adjusting the tension on the governor springs. And most likely there are two springs and if they are not adjusted correctly could cause a surge.
#16
StarTech
StarTech
Also note the governor knee screw is left handed threaded so don't strip it out attempting the static adjustment.
#17
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
Good info to know. Thanks.Also note the governor knee screw is left handed threaded so don't strip it out attempting the static adjustment.
#18
U
Uncensored
U
Uncensored
Somebody overheated your engine, probably a terrorist, you'll never get the truth. Would have gone like this; dropped the old oil, forgot and started the motor and then smelled the heat and shut it off but it was too late. Still runs but the damage was done.Took my mower to the dealer to get the drive oil changed. Was recommended to change it at 100 hours and then every 400 hours. After I got the mower back I noticed it was harder to start than it usually was and when I did get it started it puffed some smoke and ran a lot faster at just idle than normal. Have owned the mower for 2 1/2 years so have learned its tendencies and such. When I put the throttle full it sounded much loader and faster and much higher rpms and when I engaged the blades and started mowing it sounded like the motor was "surging". Sounds like it is "bumping" up to the governor and back off . It has a rrR rrR rrR sound but only when the blades are engaged not when they are not. I used to able to mow my yard 2 times give or take every tank but the last 3 times I mowed there is only about 1" of gas left in tank. Went to the dealer and complained about it and they pulled the report and it said the rpms was at 32?? rpms and was supposed to be at 36?? rpms so they set them up to what the factory specs were recommended. Told them about the hard starting and smoke so they told me to bring it back. I did and told the guy at the counter that it used to run and start fantastic and to put it back the way it was and they said they could. Got the mower back and when I started it, it was better but not the same and every now and then it will still puff a little smoke (not as much) but a little and not every time. Called and was connected to the mechanic and told him all of this and he said the rpms was set back to 34?? and I asked him why he didn't set it back to where it was as I was told they would. He said he was never told that. I told him I bring my mower in to replace the hydro oil and they mess with it and screw it up and they sent me a bill for them to try and fix their screw up. It still "sounds" like it is surging, not as prominent as before but it is still there. The mechanic said if I wanted to bring it back and talk directly to him that he can put the meter on it and set it to the 32?? rpms. My question is will it hurt the 691v Kawasaki motor for it to run that way or just run it. It used more gas than normal last mowing but not as much as it did when I first got it back. Looking for insight about what I should do or not do. Thanks.
#19
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
I will take that as a joke and move on.Somebody overheated your engine, probably a terrorist, you'll never get the truth. Would have gone like this; dropped the old oil, forgot and started the motor and then smelled the heat and shut it off but it was too late. Still runs but the damage was done.
#20
B
Brucewayne
B
Brucewayne
I know very little about mowers. I had an issue with my mower shutting off on occasion. I took a shot in the dark and changed the fuel filter. Amazingly enough the problem went away.
#21
J
jviews12
J
jviews12
This is a great forum guys, please stay friendly and understanding. Now for my lecture, please use clean gas, drain equipment at end of season, clean tank and lines and carb and everything for the next season. I like starting knowing everything was put away 100% ready for next crop season. No preventing animals chewing through wires though.
#22
poncho144
My advice, for what its worth, is to get more involved in DIY hands on down an dirty manly art of "fixing" shit. I mean, its a frigg'n lawn mower, not a spacecraft. How hard would it be to self-educate yourself on internal combustion machinery so you can cut-out the middleman jerkoff and claim the title of master of your domain?
You probably actually do the dishes, vacuum the floors and water the house plants for your little woman. Git wit da f...king man program dude....!
Just say'n....
poncho144
Well pardner, you seem like a smart enough dude to realize the folks "fixing mowers, cars, M Cycles, etc, today ain't even in the same class as the ones of yester year.I guess no one has any answers of what I should or should not do.
My advice, for what its worth, is to get more involved in DIY hands on down an dirty manly art of "fixing" shit. I mean, its a frigg'n lawn mower, not a spacecraft. How hard would it be to self-educate yourself on internal combustion machinery so you can cut-out the middleman jerkoff and claim the title of master of your domain?
You probably actually do the dishes, vacuum the floors and water the house plants for your little woman. Git wit da f...king man program dude....!
Just say'n....
#23
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
I do all of my maintenance but thought since the mower was still under warranty that I would just let them change the hydo oil as I was going to change it myself but that way if something comes up with anything they would not be able to say "well you did this" and get out of covering anything. It only cost me $100 more for them to do it as compared to me buying the stuff to do it myself so thought in the long run would be cheap insurance and apparently it may work out. Talked to the head technician and he said that since his guys did the adjustment and all of this has started since then that he wants to make it right so asked me to bring the mower back and let him find where the problem is and get the mower back to the adjustments that it is supposed to be running under so I took it back (only a 1/2 mile away) and he is looking into it. Like he agreed, it is still under warranty so will make it right and tell me when to pick it up. Others on here have stated that technicians should fix whatever they "deem" is necessary but I told them I only wanted the hydo oil change as I do my own stuff. They said they would do this and that and whatever but I told them no just the hydo oil. If they thought the oil needed changing or whatever then that would be something that they would want to charge for but I do all of that myself. They went farther than was asked of them and this is on them and they realize it. Wish I had just done it myself but I didn't so I have to go with the direction it is taking me. Not that I wanted to but am forced into that by them. And you are wrong about doing the dishes, vacuuming and watering the plants for my "little woman" thats what she does as I do all the "manly" stuff as you say.Well pardner, you seem like a smart enough dude to realize the folks "fixing mowers, cars, M Cycles, etc, today ain't even in the same class as the ones of yester year.
My advice, for what its worth, is to get more involved in DIY hands on down an dirty manly art of "fixing" shit. I mean, its a frigg'n lawn mower, not a spacecraft. How hard would it be to self-educate yourself on internal combustion machinery so you can cut-out the middleman jerkoff and claim the title of master of your domain?
You probably actually do the dishes, vacuum the floors and water the house plants for your little woman. Git wit da f...king man program dude....!
Just say'n....
#24
C
closecut
C
closecut
There is a very small spring that is parallel to the governor spring.It seems to do nothing,but it takes up the slack in the governor spring hole to prevent surging and hunting.It prevents what they call hysteresis.Hysteresis is good in some cases,like a pipe wrench for instance,the sloppy fit make it grab,but not good on a mower governor.If this spring fell off or was removed and not put back on,it can cause surging.
To clean a carb that is not totally clogged,I use Dextron ATF. A small amount, a couple of tablespoons in a gallon usually does it, given time.The engine will smoke some,but the very high amount of varnish and sludge removers in the ATF will break up and remove the same stuff from your mower carb.Run it for a couple of hours,then let it rest overnight..let the solvents do their job.Then run out the tank next day.That has solved many problems for me in the past,even on the older carbureted cars,before computer controls. It may not solve your problem,but it will certainly clean the carb.IMHO:Better than Sea Foam for this purpose.
To clean a carb that is not totally clogged,I use Dextron ATF. A small amount, a couple of tablespoons in a gallon usually does it, given time.The engine will smoke some,but the very high amount of varnish and sludge removers in the ATF will break up and remove the same stuff from your mower carb.Run it for a couple of hours,then let it rest overnight..let the solvents do their job.Then run out the tank next day.That has solved many problems for me in the past,even on the older carbureted cars,before computer controls. It may not solve your problem,but it will certainly clean the carb.IMHO:Better than Sea Foam for this purpose.
#25
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
Thanks for the info. When I get the mower back will try the carb cleaning as it won't hurt to clean it up inside even if that isn't the problem.There is a very small spring that is parallel to the governor spring.It seems to do nothing,but it takes up the slack in the governor spring hole to prevent surging and hunting.It prevents what they call hysteresis.Hysteresis is good in some cases,like a pipe wrench for instance,the sloppy fit make it grab,but not good on a mower governor.If this spring fell off or was removed and not put back on,it can cause surging.
To clean a carb that is not totally clogged,I use Dextron ATF. A small amount, a couple of tablespoons in a gallon usually does it, given time.The engine will smoke some,but the very high amount of varnish and sludge removers in the ATF will break up and remove the same stuff from your mower carb.Run it for a couple of hours,then let it rest overnight..let the solvents do their job.Then run out the tank next day.That has solved many problems for me in the past,even on the older carbureted cars,before computer controls. It may not solve your problem,but it will certainly clean the carb.IMHO:Better than Sea Foam for this purpose.
#26
C
ccheatha
For the surging, I’d be wondering if all the jets in the carb are clean. I’ve seen Pilot jets cause that issue.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge. I certainly learn a lot just by tuning in now and then.
C
ccheatha
I definitely see both sides of the discussion here. Tbmmbt’s 2nd post does come off as a little impatient. However, he did make his first post on the 18th, so it was a while ago. At any rate, if the tech made changes according to specs, it might help to simply pass that info on to the customer.First of all, check your attitude and have a little patience. We are not at your beck and call. Do you assume the technicians on this site are waiting to serve others and should provide answers within 24 hours, we do have other lives and commitments., especially on the weekends. Service manual does say high speed, no load RPMs should be at 3600. Second, as a technician when we see that things are not up to spec, we set them where the manual recommends. Others complain that it should be done even though we weren’t told to do so. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t. More than likely you have a fuel delivery problem that you were unaware of, due to the low speed setting. It manifested itself when the RPMs were set properly. How you want to proceed is up to you, but you are not going to get any sympathy from the techs on this site with your failure to understand what techs have to do to please every customer. Most understand, others RANT. Your can now get mad at me and hit the ignore button.
For the surging, I’d be wondering if all the jets in the carb are clean. I’ve seen Pilot jets cause that issue.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge. I certainly learn a lot just by tuning in now and then.
#27
poncho144
poncho144
Uh huh....I do all of my maintenance but thought since the mower was still under warranty that I would just let them change the hydo oil as I was going to change it myself but that way if something comes up with anything they would not be able to say "well you did this" and get out of covering anything. It only cost me $100 more for them to do it as compared to me buying the stuff to do it myself so thought in the long run would be cheap insurance and apparently it may work out. Talked to the head technician and he said that since his guys did the adjustment and all of this has started since then that he wants to make it right so asked me to bring the mower back and let him find where the problem is and get the mower back to the adjustments that it is supposed to be running under so I took it back (only a 1/2 mile away) and he is looking into it. Like he agreed, it is still under warranty so will make it right and tell me when to pick it up. Others on here have stated that technicians should fix whatever they "deem" is necessary but I told them I only wanted the hydo oil change as I do my own stuff. They said they would do this and that and whatever but I told them no just the hydo oil. If they thought the oil needed changing or whatever then that would be something that they would want to charge for but I do all of that myself. They went farther than was asked of them and this is on them and they realize it. Wish I had just done it myself but I didn't so I have to go with the direction it is taking me. Not that I wanted to but am forced into that by them. And you are wrong about doing the dishes, vacuuming and watering the plants for my "little woman" thats what she does as I do all the "manly" stuff as you say.
Attachments
#28
C
CaptFerd
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CaptFerd
Sorry to hear your having problems with your mower. I can understand how frustrated you may be. A video I did on YouTube may explain why your mower runs so bad after leaving a service shop. Unfortunately, we are plagued with a world of so-called lawn mower mechanics that have watched a few videos of drunks and women flashing cleavage fixing mowers and have what I call a YouTube education. Its very possible you found one in that shop. They become professionals overnight after they just learned how to take off 2 bolts, put on a carburetor and fix a mower. You may want to lick your wounds and find another person or business to service your mower. To the ones that say its not a space shuttle, I can say there is more technology in modern mowers and tractors than the one that went to the moon.I guess no one has any answers of what I should or should not do.
#29
C
Combat_Pyro
C
Combat_Pyro
Took my mower to the dealer to get the drive oil changed. Was recommended to change it at 100 hours and then every 400 hours. After I got the mower back I noticed it was harder to start than it usually was and when I did get it started it puffed some smoke and ran a lot faster at just idle than normal. Have owned the mower for 2 1/2 years so have learned its tendencies and such. When I put the throttle full it sounded much loader and faster and much higher rpms and when I engaged the blades and started mowing it sounded like the motor was "surging". Sounds like it is "bumping" up to the governor and back off . It has a rrR rrR rrR sound but only when the blades are engaged not when they are not. I used to able to mow my yard 2 times give or take every tank but the last 3 times I mowed there is only about 1" of gas left in tank. Went to the dealer and complained about it and they pulled the report and it said the rpms was at 32?? rpms and was supposed to be at 36?? rpms so they set them up to what the factory specs were recommended. Told them about the hard starting and smoke so they told me to bring it back. I did and told the guy at the counter that it used to run and start fantastic and to put it back the way it was and they said they could. Got the mower back and when I started it, it was better but not the same and every now and then it will still puff a little smoke (not as much) but a little and not every time. Called and was connected to the mechanic and told him all of this and he said the rpms was set back to 34?? and I asked him why he didn't set it back to where it was as I was told they would. He said he was never told that. I told him I bring my mower in to replace the hydro oil and they mess with it and screw it up and they sent me a bill for them to try and fix their screw up. It still "sounds" like it is surging, not as prominent as before but it is still there. The mechanic said if I wanted to bring it back and talk directly to him that he can put the meter on it and set it to the 32?? rpms. My question is will it hurt the 691v Kawasaki motor for it to run that way or just run it. It used more gas than normal last mowing but not as much as it did when I first got it back. Looking for insight about what I should do or not do. Thanks.
#30
C
Combat_Pyro
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Combat_Pyro
Congratulations, you answered a question that he didn’t ask for the purpose of promoting your own YouTube video. Useless self centered comment.Sorry to hear your having problems with your mower. I can understand how frustrated you may be. A video I did on YouTube may explain why your mower runs so bad after leaving a service shop. Unfortunately, we are plagued with a world of so-called lawn mower mechanics that have watched a few videos of drunks and women flashing cleavage fixing mowers and have what I call a YouTube education. Its very possible you found one in that shop. They become professionals overnight after they just learned how to take off 2 bolts, put on a carburetor and fix a mower. You may want to lick your wounds and find another person or business to service your mower. To the ones that say its not a space shuttle, I can say there is more technology in modern mowers and tractors than the one that went to the moon.
#31
C
Combat_Pyro
C
Combat_Pyro
Your mower will have less ability to cut through thicker grass running at 3200 rpm’s range, but it will have less wear as well. I would force them to make the mower run like it did before they screwed with it, especially because you didn’t authorize them to perform that work. They were only authorized to perform the work you brought it in for. If Running it at 3200rpms works for you then it will not harm your engine or mower in any way.Thanks for the reply. I bought the mower new and for 2 1/2 years the mower performed flawlessly. Started very easy and run like a top at slower throttle as well as full throttle. Always when the blades were engaged the throttle was full and never had the surging sound. It only has the surging sound only after they messed with the rpm’s and the surging is only noticeable at full throttle when the blades are engaged and not when it is full throttle with them not engaged. I am not a mechanic and never has been but thought it odd that now this is happening. You posted that idle speed should be 1450, now I don’t know what that should sound like but after they adjusted the rpm’s the idle seems really higher pitch and fast so didn’t know if there was a correlation between the 2 or not.
#32
P
Peva
P
Peva
I'm late to the thread.
Sounds like you're a busy man!
"Sundays are my day to get my own things done. I only stopping now as I awaiting a couple of my gals to lay."Plus as Rivets some of us work all week at our own shops. Personally my shop is operated 6 days 10 hrs/day every week. Sundays are my day to get my own things done. I only stopping now as I awaiting a couple of my gals to lay. Then I going the grocery store, Auto parts store, HFT a couple items and then when get that done it my housework and yard work plus formatting and updating my business software with new price files.
Now we also need the actual model numbers of mower and the model and spec numbers of the engine for us to see what you in front of you as we are not all seeing.
Now there three base versions of the Kawasaki 691V (FS, FR, and FX). Idle speed is set at a base of 1450 with a governed idle speed of 1550. If not done correctly then governor will act up.
From the service manual these are the idle speeds
View attachment 68694
Also note that just because the hydro oil was change does not mean something else hasn't happen in the meantime. I just had a mower that was running when the customer picked it but before it got unloaded at the customer's home it started acting up. A piece of metal that another didn't keep track of started causing problems.
Sounds like you're a busy man!
#33
C
CaptFerd
His famous last words were "Looking for insight about what I should do or not do. Thanks."
Only a consumer and a reputable mower service with excellent customer service would understand my suggestions above. Unless you have a magic wand not you or anyone else is going to fix that mower from here. He needs to be guided to someone that will fix it and not fly the coop or milk him dry as the company he is taking it to is doing. Thanks for watching the video. You now know that fixing mowers for others starts with great customer service. You did give good advice up there by the way.
C
CaptFerd
Congratulations, you answered a question that he didn’t ask for the purpose of promoting your own YouTube video. Useless self centered comment.
His famous last words were "Looking for insight about what I should do or not do. Thanks."
Only a consumer and a reputable mower service with excellent customer service would understand my suggestions above. Unless you have a magic wand not you or anyone else is going to fix that mower from here. He needs to be guided to someone that will fix it and not fly the coop or milk him dry as the company he is taking it to is doing. Thanks for watching the video. You now know that fixing mowers for others starts with great customer service. You did give good advice up there by the way.
#34
F
first pull
service look into it
F
first pull
They messed something up during the oil change. I am not sure what without seeing it but I am a small engine mechanic and things don't just change when you have an oil change!I would have anotherI guess no one has any answers of what I should or should not do.
service look into it
#35
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
You are correct something messed up during the hydro oil change. They decided to adjust the high throttle rpm's because they said it was a little over 3200 and spec says 3600. After they did that is when all of the surging started with full throttle and blades engaged.They messed something up during the oil change. I am not sure what without seeing it but I am a small engine mechanic and things don't just change when you have an oil change!I would have another
service look into it
#36
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
They sent me a bill for adjusting the rpm's even though I told them to just change the hydro oil. I asked them why I have to pay for something I didn't want or order as well as why should I pay you to screw up the way my motor runs after they messed with it. Needless to say they were not paid for that only the hydro oil change.His famous last words were "Looking for insight about what I should do or not do. Thanks."
Only a consumer and a reputable mower service with excellent customer service would understand my suggestions above. Unless you have a magic wand not you or anyone else is going to fix that mower from here. He needs to be guided to someone that will fix it and not fly the coop or milk him dry as the company he is taking it to is doing. Thanks for watching the video. You now know that fixing mowers for others starts with great customer service. You did give good advice up there by the way.
#37
F
foggysail
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foggysail
My surging thought is the carburetor's main valve has poop in it resulting from not draining old gas. If mine.........I would try dropping the bottom cover off the carburetor and use a torch tip and try cleaning it. Do a Google to learn more about finding the valve so you know what to look for.
#38
C
ccheatha
C
ccheatha
I was thinking pilot jet.My surging thought is the carburetor's main valve has poop in it resulting from not draining old gas. If mine.........I would try dropping the bottom cover off the carburetor and use a torch tip and try cleaning it. Do a Google to learn more about finding the valve so you know what to look for.
#39
R
RevB
R
RevB
#1 - Pay with a credit card? Put it in dispute with your card company.....Took my mower to the dealer to get the drive oil changed. Was recommended to change it at 100 hours and then every 400 hours. After I got the mower back I noticed it was harder to start than it usually was and when I did get it started it puffed some smoke and ran a lot faster at just idle than normal. Have owned the mower for 2 1/2 years so have learned its tendencies and such. When I put the throttle full it sounded much loader and faster and much higher rpms and when I engaged the blades and started mowing it sounded like the motor was "surging". Sounds like it is "bumping" up to the governor and back off . It has a rrR rrR rrR sound but only when the blades are engaged not when they are not. I used to able to mow my yard 2 times give or take every tank but the last 3 times I mowed there is only about 1" of gas left in tank. Went to the dealer and complained about it and they pulled the report and it said the rpms was at 32?? rpms and was supposed to be at 36?? rpms so they set them up to what the factory specs were recommended. Told them about the hard starting and smoke so they told me to bring it back. I did and told the guy at the counter that it used to run and start fantastic and to put it back the way it was and they said they could. Got the mower back and when I started it, it was better but not the same and every now and then it will still puff a little smoke (not as much) but a little and not every time. Called and was connected to the mechanic and told him all of this and he said the rpms was set back to 34?? and I asked him why he didn't set it back to where it was as I was told they would. He said he was never told that. I told him I bring my mower in to replace the hydro oil and they mess with it and screw it up and they sent me a bill for them to try and fix their screw up. It still "sounds" like it is surging, not as prominent as before but it is still there. The mechanic said if I wanted to bring it back and talk directly to him that he can put the meter on it and set it to the 32?? rpms. My question is will it hurt the 691v Kawasaki motor for it to run that way or just run it. It used more gas than normal last mowing but not as much as it did when I first got it back. Looking for insight about what I should do or not do. Thanks.
#40
R
RevB
R
RevB
"Torch tip" ? What the hell is that.My surging thought is the carburetor's main valve has poop in it resulting from not draining old gas. If mine.........I would try dropping the bottom cover off the carburetor and use a torch tip and try cleaning it. Do a Google to learn more about finding the valve so you know what to look for.
#41
C
closecut
I have a set of stainless music wires that start at 1.5mm and go up to 3 mm.Cheap from Azon.Not found an orifice yet that they did not fit.
In the"OLD DAYS",when carbs were all metal,we boiled them in a pot of soapy water and it would make them as clean as brand new.Can't do that now with all the plastic.Next best thing is an ultrasonic cleaner.
C
closecut
Do not use a torch-tip orifice cleaner..they have notches like a file,and they will enlarge the orifice,creating a non standard fuel ratio that cannot be adjusted out.Use a straight pin or needle that will just barely fit the orifice.Blow carb cleaner through all holes to check for blockage."Torch tip" ? What the hell is that.
I have a set of stainless music wires that start at 1.5mm and go up to 3 mm.Cheap from Azon.Not found an orifice yet that they did not fit.
In the"OLD DAYS",when carbs were all metal,we boiled them in a pot of soapy water and it would make them as clean as brand new.Can't do that now with all the plastic.Next best thing is an ultrasonic cleaner.
#42
R
RevB
R
RevB
That's what I suspected poster meant. FilesDo not use a torch-tip orifice cleaner..they have notches like a file,and they will enlarge the orifice,creating a non standard fuel ratio that cannot be adjusted out.Use a straight pin or needle that will just barely fit the orifice.Blow carb cleaner through all holes to check for blockage.
I have a set of stainless music wires that start at 1.5mm and go up to 3 mm.Cheap from Azon.Not found an orifice yet that they did not fit.
In the"OLD DAYS",when carbs were all metal,we boiled them in a pot of soapy water and it would make them as clean as brand new.Can't do that now with all the plastic.Next best thing is an ultrasonic cleaner.
#43
R
RevB
R
RevB
Never pay cash, always card on service. Then you can dispute the hell out of it.They sent me a bill for adjusting the rpm's even though I told them to just change the hydro oil. I asked them why I have to pay for something I didn't want or order as well as why should I pay you to screw up the way my motor runs after they messed with it. Needless to say they were not paid for that only the hydro oil change.
#44
T
tbmmbt
T
tbmmbt
Paid for the hydro oil change with a card and won’t pay for the second bill for screwing up my mower.Never pay cash, always card on service. Then you can dispute the hell out of it.
#45
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
But what can happen is things change while being delivered to the dealer for work. Bouncing down the road can knock things loose and cause issues that are beyond the control of both the customer and the dealer.They messed something up during the oil change. I am not sure what without seeing it but I am a small engine mechanic and things don't just change when you have an oil change!I would have another
service look into it
#46
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
In my case I don't take plastic. Cash or check only.Never pay cash, always card on service. Then you can dispute the hell out of it.
#47
T
TobyU
People skills are not something on most of our priority lists.
I actually had a customer tell me one time after we had just loaded his mower back into his car after just unloading it because he decided he was going to take it somewhere... That I needed some work on my people skills.
I told him "That's not something I offer.
I do great work at great prices, and faster than every other shop in town."
In fact, I dislike most all of the people and the fact that I have to deal with any of them.
I am in it for the equipment. I like small engines at least some of them.
I want this equipment to run and run properly for a long time.
Some of the people are such idiots, abuse and neglect the equipment so badly, they don't deserve these pieces of equipment but I still like the equipment.
Anyways, to offer some suggestions to you, it's probably just coincidental.
It could have even been just the loading and unloading and stuff from bouncing things around because that can make a difference.
It could have also been what someone else said that you have a slight fuel delivery issue and when they set the RPMs a little higher it made that more pronounced.
As a general rule of thumb in a high percentage of situations, a surging is almost always lack of enough fuel.
And of course can be some other things but 85 Plus percent of the time it is this.
If your machine has a way to manually choke it, which most but the newest ones do, get it to where it is surging a little bit like that and then add a little bit of choke.
Typically when you get to about a quarter to a third of the way choked it will smooth out and stop surging and often speed up a little bit.
If it does this, it's almost a surefire sign that the main jet in your carburetor is slightly restricted.
You can worry about that from there or you can try some seafoam, or my personal preference, berryman's B12 liquid and pour some into your gas tank had a pretty strong concentration and then run it for a while and mow with it to see if it improves.
It often does.
It's also a good idea when you're running a cleaner and stuff like this too get it running well and then crank the choke all the way on a few times to where it's bogging down and stuttering. By doing this several times you're forcing the machine to suck a little harder through the carburetor jets and likely to clear something out more.
T
TobyU
You were hardly getting belittled.. lol.Where do you get off belittling people who are looking for information and A) don’t understand what some are saying and B) don’t have the knowledge to input what is said to them. Also never said anything about what Star said. You brought him into this conversation. Only answered your derogatory comments about me and yes was very competent and skilled at what I did for a living for 42 years. Can’t comment about your ability as I don’t know what you can or can’t do. People skills apparently are not your strong point but to each his own. That is why I came here for some help but all you wanted to do is be condescending to me any way you could. In my profession I had to talk to people who I was working for in terms of what they could understand. Some were more open and had the ability to understand and some weren’t so sometimes I had to dumb it down and talk English that they could understand but you haven’t the capability of understanding what some can and can’t understand.
People skills are not something on most of our priority lists.
I actually had a customer tell me one time after we had just loaded his mower back into his car after just unloading it because he decided he was going to take it somewhere... That I needed some work on my people skills.
I told him "That's not something I offer.
I do great work at great prices, and faster than every other shop in town."
In fact, I dislike most all of the people and the fact that I have to deal with any of them.
I am in it for the equipment. I like small engines at least some of them.
I want this equipment to run and run properly for a long time.
Some of the people are such idiots, abuse and neglect the equipment so badly, they don't deserve these pieces of equipment but I still like the equipment.
Anyways, to offer some suggestions to you, it's probably just coincidental.
It could have even been just the loading and unloading and stuff from bouncing things around because that can make a difference.
It could have also been what someone else said that you have a slight fuel delivery issue and when they set the RPMs a little higher it made that more pronounced.
As a general rule of thumb in a high percentage of situations, a surging is almost always lack of enough fuel.
And of course can be some other things but 85 Plus percent of the time it is this.
If your machine has a way to manually choke it, which most but the newest ones do, get it to where it is surging a little bit like that and then add a little bit of choke.
Typically when you get to about a quarter to a third of the way choked it will smooth out and stop surging and often speed up a little bit.
If it does this, it's almost a surefire sign that the main jet in your carburetor is slightly restricted.
You can worry about that from there or you can try some seafoam, or my personal preference, berryman's B12 liquid and pour some into your gas tank had a pretty strong concentration and then run it for a while and mow with it to see if it improves.
It often does.
It's also a good idea when you're running a cleaner and stuff like this too get it running well and then crank the choke all the way on a few times to where it's bogging down and stuttering. By doing this several times you're forcing the machine to suck a little harder through the carburetor jets and likely to clear something out more.
#48
T
TobyU
We are destroying this country but everyone using plastic. Now since covid and our new normal crap a huge majority of places are starting to add the surcharge onto the customer instead of eating the cost themselves or they incorporating into the fee and then reducing it if you pay cash.
We need to rebel against this and go back to cash only which is what I've been doing for decades.
T
TobyU
Same here! Mostly cash and a few checks here and there but I don't take plastic at all.In my case I don't take plastic. Cash or check only.
We are destroying this country but everyone using plastic. Now since covid and our new normal crap a huge majority of places are starting to add the surcharge onto the customer instead of eating the cost themselves or they incorporating into the fee and then reducing it if you pay cash.
We need to rebel against this and go back to cash only which is what I've been doing for decades.
#49
D
davis2
D
davis2
What's wrong with doing laundry, mopping floors and watering the house plants? I do that, and all the "manly" stuff. I had a mother that taught me how to take care of myself and any family I may have.Well pardner, you seem like a smart enough dude to realize the folks "fixing mowers, cars, M Cycles, etc, today ain't even in the same class as the ones of yester year.
My advice, for what its worth, is to get more involved in DIY hands on down an dirty manly art of "fixing" shit. I mean, its a frigg'n lawn mower, not a spacecraft. How hard would it be to self-educate yourself on internal combustion machinery so you can cut-out the middleman jerkoff and claim the title of master of your domain?
You probably actually do the dishes, vacuum the floors and water the house plants for your little woman. Git wit da f...king man program dude....!
Just say'n....
#50
D
davis2
D
davis2
Is that something you recommend for a maintenance type use? Maybe a lesser amount of Dexron ATF?There is a very small spring that is parallel to the governor spring.It seems to do nothing,but it takes up the slack in the governor spring hole to prevent surging and hunting.It prevents what they call hysteresis.Hysteresis is good in some cases,like a pipe wrench for instance,the sloppy fit make it grab,but not good on a mower governor.If this spring fell off or was removed and not put back on,it can cause surging.
To clean a carb that is not totally clogged,I use Dextron ATF. A small amount, a couple of tablespoons in a gallon usually does it, given time.The engine will smoke some,but the very high amount of varnish and sludge removers in the ATF will break up and remove the same stuff from your mower carb.Run it for a couple of hours,then let it rest overnight..let the solvents do their job.Then run out the tank next day.That has solved many problems for me in the past,even on the older carbureted cars,before computer controls. It may not solve your problem,but it will certainly clean the carb.IMHO:Better than Sea Foam for this purpose.
#51
R
RevB
R
RevB
Cash leaves you no recourse. Customer says, mechanic says. I do all my own work so the card only gets me parts for which I can challenge quality. It's leverage against bullshittery.Same here! Mostly cash and a few checks here and there but I don't take plastic at all.
We are destroying this country but everyone using plastic. Now since covid and our new normal crap a huge majority of places are starting to add the surcharge onto the customer instead of eating the cost themselves or they incorporating into the fee and then reducing it if you pay cash.
We need to rebel against this and go back to cash only which is what I've been doing for decades.
#52
C
closecut
C
closecut
I only know that it works for me.I had a generator that had been sitting for several years,and it would run with fresh gas when choke was on,but died when it was taken off.It could reach top speed with the choke on,so I add some ATF and started it up,let it rev to full rpm,then held my hand over the carb, totally blocking all air and killed the ignition.The idea was to pull a lot of vacuum on the carb.I did this about half a dozen times,and eventually,it cleared up and ran great without the choke.Did not have to pull the carb.Saved a lot of time and trouble.I estimated the amount of ATF,and did not precisely measure it,so the amount is not critical.A smaller amount may work well for general cleaning.If it starts to surge,try it first,otherwise,leave it alone.Is that something you recommend for a maintenance type use? Maybe a lesser amount of Dexron ATF?
#53
StarTech
I also don't advertise my business as I let my customers do it for me.
As for vendors several did go to a surcharge for using credit cards but also offered me ACH payments which I use. It saves me and the customer a 3% surcharge.
StarTech
What most don't understand is that you must deal with honest companies. Here I am cash and check only but I do stand by my work. Many shops around here don't even give the customer a workmanship warranty. I do for 30 days. If I miss something and additional parts are needed those get bill but most time the additional labor is on me.Cash leaves you no recourse. Customer says, mechanic says. I do all my own work so the card only gets me parts for which I can challenge quality. It's leverage against bullshittery.
I also don't advertise my business as I let my customers do it for me.
As for vendors several did go to a surcharge for using credit cards but also offered me ACH payments which I use. It saves me and the customer a 3% surcharge.
#54
T
TobyU
The anecdotal experience someone has told you that they have had good luck with once or twice or maybe even six times does not equate to what some of us have seen thousands and thousands of times over.
Marvel's mystery oil is far better to use in the fuel like that than ATF.
Seafoam is even better but if you want even far better than that, go with berryman's B12.
You want the liquid can which just like seafoam can.
In fact, there are about four different types of this stuff that come in a can that is dimensionally and cap wise the exact same.
Seafoam and berrymans have been doing it for decades but gum out has since joined the club, Walmart super tech has one also, and STP has one also.
These are only the ones I have seen.
Of all that I have tested, berryman's B12 is by far the strongest.
Regardless, preventive maintenance or trying to fix a slight partial restriction of a carburetor passenger jet may get you by with this but for the most part, when the machine is running lean, you're going to need to at least drop the bowl on the carb and clean out the hole in the jet.
That is typically in one of three places but all three of these are quite readily accessible once you remove the bowl of the carb.
Most people just take the whole carburetor off but of course that introduces a whole other possibility of problems like linkage, gasket damage and other intake leaks.
It's a little harder / tedious to do it with the carburetor still on the machine but it's actually a lot faster so this is why I do it this way 98% of the time.
Then, if you're talking about a snow blower or any of the Chinese carburetors like Huayi (which is one of my favorite carbs by the way) if you get any surging have to get it to run, you'll have to clean out the secondary jet which is often called a pilot jet or it's the remains of the old idle circuit which can also be done on the machine especially on the mowers.
BUT sometimes this is not enough because there are some air bleed holes that are drilled into the smooth bore of the carburetor throat at the back right at the throttle butterfly plate that also can get restricted.
You pretty much have to remove the carb to use a fine bent tipped wire to get to these and to blast them out with carb cleaner spray and compressed air.
Now while it technically could be done on the machine, it's a little over 2 inches away from you and the hole you're working in is smaller than 3/4 in diameter.
So unless you're a surgeon or want to hone your fine hand-eye coordination skills....it's just not worth doing without taking off the machine.
Luckily, approximately 97 -98% of the time, you don't need to do this on any of the Chinese carbs.
Just cleaning out the main jet and the pilot jet solves the problem.
Now on a Honda brand carb, you have to remove the air filter housing anyways which disturbs the bolts or nuts that hold the carburetor onto the machine to get the Phillips head screw out to then run a fine wire down that hole which is the pilot or secondary circuit on that one.
This is also annoyingly difficult to do on the machine so with Hondas it's probably best just to remove the carburetor then you can do all the holes including those air bleed holes that are drilled through the smooth bore of the throat also.
T
TobyU
He may but I don't.Is that something you recommend for a maintenance type use? Maybe a lesser amount of Dexron ATF?
The anecdotal experience someone has told you that they have had good luck with once or twice or maybe even six times does not equate to what some of us have seen thousands and thousands of times over.
Marvel's mystery oil is far better to use in the fuel like that than ATF.
Seafoam is even better but if you want even far better than that, go with berryman's B12.
You want the liquid can which just like seafoam can.
In fact, there are about four different types of this stuff that come in a can that is dimensionally and cap wise the exact same.
Seafoam and berrymans have been doing it for decades but gum out has since joined the club, Walmart super tech has one also, and STP has one also.
These are only the ones I have seen.
Of all that I have tested, berryman's B12 is by far the strongest.
Regardless, preventive maintenance or trying to fix a slight partial restriction of a carburetor passenger jet may get you by with this but for the most part, when the machine is running lean, you're going to need to at least drop the bowl on the carb and clean out the hole in the jet.
That is typically in one of three places but all three of these are quite readily accessible once you remove the bowl of the carb.
Most people just take the whole carburetor off but of course that introduces a whole other possibility of problems like linkage, gasket damage and other intake leaks.
It's a little harder / tedious to do it with the carburetor still on the machine but it's actually a lot faster so this is why I do it this way 98% of the time.
Then, if you're talking about a snow blower or any of the Chinese carburetors like Huayi (which is one of my favorite carbs by the way) if you get any surging have to get it to run, you'll have to clean out the secondary jet which is often called a pilot jet or it's the remains of the old idle circuit which can also be done on the machine especially on the mowers.
BUT sometimes this is not enough because there are some air bleed holes that are drilled into the smooth bore of the carburetor throat at the back right at the throttle butterfly plate that also can get restricted.
You pretty much have to remove the carb to use a fine bent tipped wire to get to these and to blast them out with carb cleaner spray and compressed air.
Now while it technically could be done on the machine, it's a little over 2 inches away from you and the hole you're working in is smaller than 3/4 in diameter.
So unless you're a surgeon or want to hone your fine hand-eye coordination skills....it's just not worth doing without taking off the machine.
Luckily, approximately 97 -98% of the time, you don't need to do this on any of the Chinese carbs.
Just cleaning out the main jet and the pilot jet solves the problem.
Now on a Honda brand carb, you have to remove the air filter housing anyways which disturbs the bolts or nuts that hold the carburetor onto the machine to get the Phillips head screw out to then run a fine wire down that hole which is the pilot or secondary circuit on that one.
This is also annoyingly difficult to do on the machine so with Hondas it's probably best just to remove the carburetor then you can do all the holes including those air bleed holes that are drilled through the smooth bore of the throat also.
#55
T
TobyU
There are times when one Ron's but surges are needs a little choke to keep going where you can give it a decent strong dose of atf, seafoam, bearings B12 etc and continue to run it and it will clean up the jet passages a little over time but it doesn't do this quickly.
Choking them out and making it suck a lot harder on the jet drawing the fuel up is what does it.
If I'm looking for a cleaner, I want the strongest I can get because I can regulate the dosage myself.
If you ever want to test them, it's very telling, get you some little clear glass or white glass condiment bowls etc
And get some things that are really nasty of course to have a controlled test you would need parts of carburetors or whatever with the same exact varnish or gummed up coating on them.
Regardless, pour an ounce of sea foam in one, berryman's B12 and the other, Chevron with proguard and the other, spray some gum out carb cleaner spray in the next, put some marbles mysterol in the next and then ATF in the last.
Then suck your sample pieces in each one for the same amount of time and see which one has the best effect.
This would be a somewhat regulated scientific test to see which one actually had the best cleaning ability.
Regardless, for preventative maintenance adding any of these products at a slight ratio to each tank of fuel or even adding some two-stroke oil or even two stroke gas mix every now and then would only help them gum up less quickly.
T
TobyU
Yes, this does work well but technically, just choking it out with your hand makes it draw so much harder on the Jets that this alone and also having some fresh gas in the tank did far more than the atf, or any cleaner was going to do.I only know that it works for me.I had a generator that had been sitting for several years,and it would run with fresh gas when choke was on,but died when it was taken off.It could reach top speed with the choke on,so I add some ATF and started it up,let it rev to full rpm,then held my hand over the carb, totally blocking all air and killed the ignition.The idea was to pull a lot of vacuum on the carb.I did this about half a dozen times,and eventually,it cleared up and ran great without the choke.Did not have to pull the carb.Saved a lot of time and trouble.I estimated the amount of ATF,and did not precisely measure it,so the amount is not critical.A smaller amount may work well for general cleaning.If it starts to surge,try it first,otherwise,leave it alone.
There are times when one Ron's but surges are needs a little choke to keep going where you can give it a decent strong dose of atf, seafoam, bearings B12 etc and continue to run it and it will clean up the jet passages a little over time but it doesn't do this quickly.
Choking them out and making it suck a lot harder on the jet drawing the fuel up is what does it.
If I'm looking for a cleaner, I want the strongest I can get because I can regulate the dosage myself.
If you ever want to test them, it's very telling, get you some little clear glass or white glass condiment bowls etc
And get some things that are really nasty of course to have a controlled test you would need parts of carburetors or whatever with the same exact varnish or gummed up coating on them.
Regardless, pour an ounce of sea foam in one, berryman's B12 and the other, Chevron with proguard and the other, spray some gum out carb cleaner spray in the next, put some marbles mysterol in the next and then ATF in the last.
Then suck your sample pieces in each one for the same amount of time and see which one has the best effect.
This would be a somewhat regulated scientific test to see which one actually had the best cleaning ability.
Regardless, for preventative maintenance adding any of these products at a slight ratio to each tank of fuel or even adding some two-stroke oil or even two stroke gas mix every now and then would only help them gum up less quickly.
#56
T
TobyU
I have three separate companies and one of them I contract to an organization and that's all paid by check so I'm fine with that.
None of them have ever bounced. Lol
In one of my other businesses I'm probably at 98-99% cash but I will take checks from people.
These checks are never over $60 so I don't have that much to lose but I've never had one get returned in over 11 years.
Now on the consumer side, I understand what you're saying and there's some things you should probably never pay cash for because then you would have to take the place to small claims court!
This does work well by the way.
I went to support and even testified during a case where a friend of mine sued a local gym club for not wanting to honor a free year membership they had given him in an exchange for a trade-off for services from his company.
Apparently this health club manager or owner likes to do this because he didn't want to spend money and you know it didn't cost him anything to give somebody a membership in reality.
The judge quickly decided that my friend's favor and told them to honor the membership or give him the full face value of it.
The funniest part was I personally had two of these same signed free memberships which was a entire contract paper with the name left blank because I had also traded them with my company.
That's where this all started but I hadn't cashed mine in yet.
So soon as the judge told him to honor that one I pulled my two out and told the health club manager to remember these two also because I had two more. Lol
Garages way too often are unscrupulous unethical jerks so I agree with you on that point.
Most of them probably aren't adding a surcharge yet but I'm sure they'll start..
They've been charging extrapolated rip-off prices for so long they've been making plenty to cover that 3% they're losing. Lol
You know the industry actually publishes a markup sheet that they send out to all repair places etc.
Hit list the items by category and then name and tells what percentage you're supposed to mark them up and even gives an example for those who aren't great with percentages.
I was astounded to see some things were over 140% markup.
I think some were higher than that.
I remember seeing an example of an alternator and if you paid $100 for it you were supposed to charge $240 for it.
This is so they could show that nice 95-110 per hour labor that I guess it's supposed to sound -fair?
But yes, recourse. I see your point but if you're on the other side of it as a business, there are times where you don't want to risk having chargebacks.
The credit card companies only go to bat for the consumer and it's like pulling teeth trying to get money back if someone does a chargeback and you probably never will.
No I don't mean for these jerks are at people off but legitimate small owner operated businesses who have great reviews and do a great job for most all their customers.
There are some people out there you cannot make happy and some people go into things with the intentional idea of pulling all I can.
I know it's a cliche but I literally know someone who in his early twenties would literally pull a hair off his arm or his head and stick it in his food so he could tell the server trying to get his meal for free or at least something discounted.
He's just one of those cheap skates and also felt like he was pulling a fast one and winning when he did this.
I'm an ultimate cheapskate but I do the work myself to find ways to save money like never overpaying for something etc. I don't lie and cheat to save money.
I will use a coupon a hundred times though if I can pull it off.
So in these cases, as a merchant, I'd rather have cash because that means I've got the money and I'm keeping it unless I decide to get part of it back.
So it's all a matter of perspective and which side you're on but I agree you have to cover your butt and watch out for some things that if something happens you wish you would have done it a different way.
T
TobyU
True, but this depends on the situation and also which side of the fence you're on.Cash leaves you no recourse. Customer says, mechanic says. I do all my own work so the card only gets me parts for which I can challenge quality. It's leverage against bullshittery.
I have three separate companies and one of them I contract to an organization and that's all paid by check so I'm fine with that.
None of them have ever bounced. Lol
In one of my other businesses I'm probably at 98-99% cash but I will take checks from people.
These checks are never over $60 so I don't have that much to lose but I've never had one get returned in over 11 years.
Now on the consumer side, I understand what you're saying and there's some things you should probably never pay cash for because then you would have to take the place to small claims court!
This does work well by the way.
I went to support and even testified during a case where a friend of mine sued a local gym club for not wanting to honor a free year membership they had given him in an exchange for a trade-off for services from his company.
Apparently this health club manager or owner likes to do this because he didn't want to spend money and you know it didn't cost him anything to give somebody a membership in reality.
The judge quickly decided that my friend's favor and told them to honor the membership or give him the full face value of it.
The funniest part was I personally had two of these same signed free memberships which was a entire contract paper with the name left blank because I had also traded them with my company.
That's where this all started but I hadn't cashed mine in yet.
So soon as the judge told him to honor that one I pulled my two out and told the health club manager to remember these two also because I had two more. Lol
Garages way too often are unscrupulous unethical jerks so I agree with you on that point.
Most of them probably aren't adding a surcharge yet but I'm sure they'll start..
They've been charging extrapolated rip-off prices for so long they've been making plenty to cover that 3% they're losing. Lol
You know the industry actually publishes a markup sheet that they send out to all repair places etc.
Hit list the items by category and then name and tells what percentage you're supposed to mark them up and even gives an example for those who aren't great with percentages.
I was astounded to see some things were over 140% markup.
I think some were higher than that.
I remember seeing an example of an alternator and if you paid $100 for it you were supposed to charge $240 for it.
This is so they could show that nice 95-110 per hour labor that I guess it's supposed to sound -fair?
But yes, recourse. I see your point but if you're on the other side of it as a business, there are times where you don't want to risk having chargebacks.
The credit card companies only go to bat for the consumer and it's like pulling teeth trying to get money back if someone does a chargeback and you probably never will.
No I don't mean for these jerks are at people off but legitimate small owner operated businesses who have great reviews and do a great job for most all their customers.
There are some people out there you cannot make happy and some people go into things with the intentional idea of pulling all I can.
I know it's a cliche but I literally know someone who in his early twenties would literally pull a hair off his arm or his head and stick it in his food so he could tell the server trying to get his meal for free or at least something discounted.
He's just one of those cheap skates and also felt like he was pulling a fast one and winning when he did this.
I'm an ultimate cheapskate but I do the work myself to find ways to save money like never overpaying for something etc. I don't lie and cheat to save money.
I will use a coupon a hundred times though if I can pull it off.
So in these cases, as a merchant, I'd rather have cash because that means I've got the money and I'm keeping it unless I decide to get part of it back.
So it's all a matter of perspective and which side you're on but I agree you have to cover your butt and watch out for some things that if something happens you wish you would have done it a different way.
#57
D
davis2
D
davis2
I am familiar with seafoam and berrymans. Haven't used berrymans, but will try it. I am always looking for things to use if they are effective at fixing a problem, that's why I asked if it was a maintenance type thing or not. I do use mmo in my fuel for all my small engines except for 2 stroke fuel.He may but I don't.
The anecdotal experience someone has told you that they have had good luck with once or twice or maybe even six times does not equate to what some of us have seen thousands and thousands of times over.
Marvel's mystery oil is far better to use in the fuel like that than ATF.
Seafoam is even better but if you want even far better than that, go with berryman's B12.
You want the liquid can which just like seafoam can.
In fact, there are about four different types of this stuff that come in a can that is dimensionally and cap wise the exact same.
Seafoam and berrymans have been doing it for decades but gum out has since joined the club, Walmart super tech has one also, and STP has one also.
These are only the ones I have seen.
Of all that I have tested, berryman's B12 is by far the strongest.
Regardless, preventive maintenance or trying to fix a slight partial restriction of a carburetor passenger jet may get you by with this but for the most part, when the machine is running lean, you're going to need to at least drop the bowl on the carb and clean out the hole in the jet.
That is typically in one of three places but all three of these are quite readily accessible once you remove the bowl of the carb.
Most people just take the whole carburetor off but of course that introduces a whole other possibility of problems like linkage, gasket damage and other intake leaks.
It's a little harder / tedious to do it with the carburetor still on the machine but it's actually a lot faster so this is why I do it this way 98% of the time.
Then, if you're talking about a snow blower or any of the Chinese carburetors like Huayi (which is one of my favorite carbs by the way) if you get any surging have to get it to run, you'll have to clean out the secondary jet which is often called a pilot jet or it's the remains of the old idle circuit which can also be done on the machine especially on the mowers.
BUT sometimes this is not enough because there are some air bleed holes that are drilled into the smooth bore of the carburetor throat at the back right at the throttle butterfly plate that also can get restricted.
You pretty much have to remove the carb to use a fine bent tipped wire to get to these and to blast them out with carb cleaner spray and compressed air.
Now while it technically could be done on the machine, it's a little over 2 inches away from you and the hole you're working in is smaller than 3/4 in diameter.
So unless you're a surgeon or want to hone your fine hand-eye coordination skills....it's just not worth doing without taking off the machine.
Luckily, approximately 97 -98% of the time, you don't need to do this on any of the Chinese carbs.
Just cleaning out the main jet and the pilot jet solves the problem.
Now on a Honda brand carb, you have to remove the air filter housing anyways which disturbs the bolts or nuts that hold the carburetor onto the machine to get the Phillips head screw out to then run a fine wire down that hole which is the pilot or secondary circuit on that one.
This is also annoyingly difficult to do on the machine so with Hondas it's probably best just to remove the carburetor then you can do all the holes including those air bleed holes that are drilled through the smooth bore of the throat also.
#58
T
TobyU
It's not going to hurt anything and the ratios that these additives are recommended to be used at is so low it's barely a maintenance dose.
If you test berryman's B12 liquid four can formula against the others you will find it to be much stronger.
I also run it at much stronger concentrations than they recommend but that's because I'm actually trying to accomplish something quickly.
You do have to be careful though because you can't over do it. It's slightly reminiscent of that old Gunk solder seal carburetor and parts cleaner dip that would bubble all the paint off and mere minutes and swell up every rubber o-ring or rubber part in existence to unusable levels.
The bearman's B12 will swell up rubber and if the concentration is too high, the inlet needle seat or the rubber tip on the inlet needle will swell up and can prevent it from actually moving up and down allowing the fuel to flow or the little rubber inlet seal will swell it's hole shut.
So I use it stronger concentrations than they recommend but in a typical push mower gas tank which doesn't hold that many ounces of fuel, I never put over 3 oz.
Then I shake it and run it to get it into the carburetor and usually let it sit a little while but not typically overnight. Then I will top off the fuel with fresh gas as to dilute the baremans and then run it until that gas gets into the carburetor.
T
TobyU
You could even use MMO in your 2-stroke fuel also as long as you still put the correct amount of oil in it..I am familiar with seafoam and berrymans. Haven't used berrymans, but will try it. I am always looking for things to use if they are effective at fixing a problem, that's why I asked if it was a maintenance type thing or not. I do use mmo in my fuel for all my small engines except for 2 stroke fuel.
It's not going to hurt anything and the ratios that these additives are recommended to be used at is so low it's barely a maintenance dose.
If you test berryman's B12 liquid four can formula against the others you will find it to be much stronger.
I also run it at much stronger concentrations than they recommend but that's because I'm actually trying to accomplish something quickly.
You do have to be careful though because you can't over do it. It's slightly reminiscent of that old Gunk solder seal carburetor and parts cleaner dip that would bubble all the paint off and mere minutes and swell up every rubber o-ring or rubber part in existence to unusable levels.
The bearman's B12 will swell up rubber and if the concentration is too high, the inlet needle seat or the rubber tip on the inlet needle will swell up and can prevent it from actually moving up and down allowing the fuel to flow or the little rubber inlet seal will swell it's hole shut.
So I use it stronger concentrations than they recommend but in a typical push mower gas tank which doesn't hold that many ounces of fuel, I never put over 3 oz.
Then I shake it and run it to get it into the carburetor and usually let it sit a little while but not typically overnight. Then I will top off the fuel with fresh gas as to dilute the baremans and then run it until that gas gets into the carburetor.
#59
D
davis2
D
davis2
Funny, but my cub 782 started running rough about 3/4 of the way through mowing today. So I tried some berrymans, but at the levels they specified on the label. We'll see what happens.You could even use MMO in your 2-stroke fuel also as long as you still put the correct amount of oil in it..
It's not going to hurt anything and the ratios that these additives are recommended to be used at is so low it's barely a maintenance dose.
If you test berryman's B12 liquid four can formula against the others you will find it to be much stronger.
I also run it at much stronger concentrations than they recommend but that's because I'm actually trying to accomplish something quickly.
You do have to be careful though because you can't over do it. It's slightly reminiscent of that old Gunk solder seal carburetor and parts cleaner dip that would bubble all the paint off and mere minutes and swell up every rubber o-ring or rubber part in existence to unusable levels.
The bearman's B12 will swell up rubber and if the concentration is too high, the inlet needle seat or the rubber tip on the inlet needle will swell up and can prevent it from actually moving up and down allowing the fuel to flow or the little rubber inlet seal will swell it's hole shut.
So I use it stronger concentrations than they recommend but in a typical push mower gas tank which doesn't hold that many ounces of fuel, I never put over 3 oz.
Then I shake it and run it to get it into the carburetor and usually let it sit a little while but not typically overnight. Then I will top off the fuel with fresh gas as to dilute the baremans and then run it until that gas gets into the carburetor.
#60
G
GearHead36
G
GearHead36
I have an old motorcycle that I don't ride often enough. Every few years, I find myself cleaning carbs. I've tried a variety of solvents, but Berrymans, at 100%, works better than anything else I've tried. I only use it at 100% on metal parts like jets.
#61
D
davis2
D
davis2
I have a feeling that a carb cleaning is in my near future.I have an old motorcycle that I don't ride often enough. Every few years, I find myself cleaning carbs. I've tried a variety of solvents, but Berrymans, at 100%, works better than anything else I've tried. I only use it at 100% on metal parts like jets.
#62
T
TobyU
It was a '79 gs850 motorcycle whose carbs were slightly restricted etc and this stuff did wonders.
You have to be careful not to drip anything on the paint though because it can strip paint instantly.
T
TobyU
This is exactly the first thing I was able to get such miraculous results on that I have been using it ever since.I have an old motorcycle that I don't ride often enough. Every few years, I find myself cleaning carbs. I've tried a variety of solvents, but Berrymans, at 100%, works better than anything else I've tried. I only use it at 100% on metal parts like jets.
It was a '79 gs850 motorcycle whose carbs were slightly restricted etc and this stuff did wonders.
You have to be careful not to drip anything on the paint though because it can strip paint instantly.
#63
T
TobyU
You might be able to drain some of the fuel through like this and shake it around and tilt it towards that side as you're doing it to get a lot of the crap out of the bowls without even removing the carburetor or the bowls.
Sometimes this helps them run a lot better and then your cleaner will help too.
T
TobyU
Most of the carburetors have a little drain at the bottom you can stick a hose on and a screw to open to allow fuel to drain out of the bowl.I have a feeling that a carb cleaning is in my near future.
You might be able to drain some of the fuel through like this and shake it around and tilt it towards that side as you're doing it to get a lot of the crap out of the bowls without even removing the carburetor or the bowls.
Sometimes this helps them run a lot better and then your cleaner will help too.
#64
T
TobyU
Most of their recommendations are also pretty vague.
Do you remember what it actually said on the bottle?
I'm thinking most of these treatments which are like a 12 oz bottle or something say to add to a tank of fuel of 12 to 15 gallons or something like that.
Only a few additives I've read give a percentage and that's usually with oil additives.
So it looks like a lot of these gas ones end up being about 1 oz per gallon.
If something is decently clogged or restricted in your fuel system, 1 oz in a gallon a fuel isn't going to do much.
That certainly more of a maintenance thing.
I routinely use this stuff and push mowers and the newer ones have a smaller tank than the old ones but I don't think any of them even held a half gallon.
The specification is .211 gallon on the newer one so that's not even a quart.
I often put two to three ounces in these. They typically aren't even full when I do this I would say on average about half full.
So with a full tank even if it was a quart, I would already be at four times the recommended concentration and then since it's not even a court and since the tank is probably only half full or slightly over half full, I'm at about 7- 9 times the concentration.
So I guess you could say it'd be like putting seven bottles of this stuff into your car's tank with a full tank of gas.
I want results!
As I've said before you have to be careful and not put too much in there because if you put half the can into a push mower you will probably swell up the inlet needle or seat in the carb and cause a problem.
But I have found it's better to err on the side of adding a little too much because you just might get some results and not have to mess with it as opposed to too little where you'll have to take it apart and clean it out anyways.
No different than if you add too much and screw it up and you have to take it apart and I replace needle valve in it anyway.
T
TobyU
It certainly won't hurt but I find that at the levels they recommend it's not going to do too much too quickly.Funny, but my cub 782 started running rough about 3/4 of the way through mowing today. So I tried some berrymans, but at the levels they specified on the label. We'll see what happens.
Most of their recommendations are also pretty vague.
Do you remember what it actually said on the bottle?
I'm thinking most of these treatments which are like a 12 oz bottle or something say to add to a tank of fuel of 12 to 15 gallons or something like that.
Only a few additives I've read give a percentage and that's usually with oil additives.
So it looks like a lot of these gas ones end up being about 1 oz per gallon.
If something is decently clogged or restricted in your fuel system, 1 oz in a gallon a fuel isn't going to do much.
That certainly more of a maintenance thing.
I routinely use this stuff and push mowers and the newer ones have a smaller tank than the old ones but I don't think any of them even held a half gallon.
The specification is .211 gallon on the newer one so that's not even a quart.
I often put two to three ounces in these. They typically aren't even full when I do this I would say on average about half full.
So with a full tank even if it was a quart, I would already be at four times the recommended concentration and then since it's not even a court and since the tank is probably only half full or slightly over half full, I'm at about 7- 9 times the concentration.
So I guess you could say it'd be like putting seven bottles of this stuff into your car's tank with a full tank of gas.
I want results!
As I've said before you have to be careful and not put too much in there because if you put half the can into a push mower you will probably swell up the inlet needle or seat in the carb and cause a problem.
But I have found it's better to err on the side of adding a little too much because you just might get some results and not have to mess with it as opposed to too little where you'll have to take it apart and clean it out anyways.
No different than if you add too much and screw it up and you have to take it apart and I replace needle valve in it anyway.
#65
P
Peva
Please post pics of gals!
P
Peva
"Sundays are my day to get my own things done. I only stopping now as I awaiting a couple of my gals to lay."Plus as Rivets some of us work all week at our own shops. Personally my shop is operated 6 days 10 hrs/day every week. Sundays are my day to get my own things done. I only stopping now as I awaiting a couple of my gals to lay. Then I going the grocery store, Auto parts store, HFT a couple items and then when get that done it my housework and yard work plus formatting and updating my business software with new price files.
Now we also need the actual model numbers of mower and the model and spec numbers of the engine for us to see what you in front of you as we are not all seeing.
Now there three base versions of the Kawasaki 691V (FS, FR, and FX). Idle speed is set at a base of 1450 with a governed idle speed of 1550. If not done correctly then governor will act up.
From the service manual these are the idle speeds
View attachment 68694
Also note that just because the hydro oil was change does not mean something else hasn't happen in the meantime. I just had a mower that was running when the customer picked it but before it got unloaded at the customer's home it started acting up. A piece of metal that another didn't keep track of started causing problems.
Please post pics of gals!
#66
T
TobyU
The picture in my mind would be good for several months of Sundays. Lol
T
TobyU
I have to admit you got my attention with "gals to lay".. but I believe I was thinking something entirely different than what you meant."Sundays are my day to get my own things done. I only stopping now as I awaiting a couple of my gals to lay."
Please post pics of gals!
The picture in my mind would be good for several months of Sundays. Lol
#67
D
davis2
D
davis2
Bottle says 1oz/gal. It didn't fix my problem. The carb was clean when I took it apart. I cleaned it anyway, and replaced the fuel filter. It had been on for a couple years anyway. When that didn't work, I looked at the electrical stuff. I found a bad coil. Plugs had weak spark, but only ran on 1 cylinder. I had to try an Amazon coil, but only risked $30.It certainly won't hurt but I find that at the levels they recommend it's not going to do too much too quickly.
Most of their recommendations are also pretty vague.
Do you remember what it actually said on the bottle?
I'm thinking most of these treatments which are like a 12 oz bottle or something say to add to a tank of fuel of 12 to 15 gallons or something like that.
Only a few additives I've read give a percentage and that's usually with oil additives.
So it looks like a lot of these gas ones end up being about 1 oz per gallon.
If something is decently clogged or restricted in your fuel system, 1 oz in a gallon a fuel isn't going to do much.
That certainly more of a maintenance thing.
I routinely use this stuff and push mowers and the newer ones have a smaller tank than the old ones but I don't think any of them even held a half gallon.
The specification is .211 gallon on the newer one so that's not even a quart.
I often put two to three ounces in these. They typically aren't even full when I do this I would say on average about half full.
So with a full tank even if it was a quart, I would already be at four times the recommended concentration and then since it's not even a court and since the tank is probably only half full or slightly over half full, I'm at about 7- 9 times the concentration.
So I guess you could say it'd be like putting seven bottles of this stuff into your car's tank with a full tank of gas.
I want results!
As I've said before you have to be careful and not put too much in there because if you put half the can into a push mower you will probably swell up the inlet needle or seat in the carb and cause a problem.
But I have found it's better to err on the side of adding a little too much because you just might get some results and not have to mess with it as opposed to too little where you'll have to take it apart and clean it out anyways.
No different than if you add too much and screw it up and you have to take it apart and I replace needle valve in it anyway.
#68
D
davis2
D
davis2
Get your mind out of the gutter... There's no room for me!!!!I have to admit you got my attention with "gals to lay".. but I believe I was thinking something entirely different than what you meant.
The picture in my mind would be good for several months of Sundays. Lol
#69
D
davis2
D
davis2
Look at your dinner plate. Chickens lay eggs..."Sundays are my day to get my own things done. I only stopping now as I awaiting a couple of my gals to lay."
Please post pics of gals!
#70
T
TobyU
This is why I say I've used it at much greater concentrations because I have gotten results from this.
If you found out later it was not fuel related but rather ignition, then you should have started your diagnosis process a little differently.
I have this down to a science because I see hundreds and hundreds of mowers that don't start every season.
So many people do things the hard way or the slow way which is starting with a spark plug normally but that's almost always a complete waste of time.
If a mother will not start at all and the first thing you do is giving an external fuel source straight into the intake underneath the air filter.
If it then starts to runs for a 3 or 4 seconds then you know it's mechanically sound otherwise.
If you have one that runs especially if it's a twin but is not running well or underpowered, then it's a little more difficult but still easy to figure out.
The fastest, but not the most accurate would be to give it a little bit of choke as it loses power to see if it recovers and if it does and seems to have close to full power, then it probably has a restriction and the carburetor and or jets.
However this can be a little hard to determine unless you have a lot of experience with them and it doing this exact same thing so I find it easier on a twin to first guarantee it's running on both cylinders.
To do this I get a thick glove, because I hate to be shocked, and then a rag or a towel.
I pop both spark plugs off and stick them back on so they are just barely on the plug.
Then I started and running at a medium speed, not slow and not fast just a little past slow so medium and then I use my rag and my gloved hand to pop one spark plug wire off and hold it away from the plug so it's no longer sparking to the plug.
It will either quit running although it should slow down a little bit and maybe run a little more roughly or it will completely die.
If it completely stops running then you know this is the only cylinder the engine is running on so the other one is not producing power.
If it does keep running you sufficiently canceled this cylinder out so then you go to the other cylinder and do the same thing to see what the results are.
If it's an ignition, valve, or other issue where one of your cylinders is not producing power, you will find it this way.
Then you can rule out your main problem being fuel so you don't have to worry about all the other stuff.
At least not for now because there's still the possibility that once you get both cylinders running properly that the carb might not be clean enough but that's tomorrow's problem.
Systematic and consistent troubleshooting of a known efficient approach is the best for these.
A good number of my customers started calling me the lawnmower whisperer about 11 years ago.
Once you get this down to a science, you can approach a lawn mower and diagnose with about 97% accuracy what the problem is in under 25 seconds.
I know some people don't get my rushing approach as they see it but I like to be efficient.
I don't really like to work and I do a lot of other things throughout my day of a personal nature.
So if I'm going to get anything done at all, or make any money, or get these mowers back to their customers, I have to be very efficient when I do work.
Surprisingly enough I must be doing a lot even though I'm a one-man show.
I must be doing comparable volume to other shops because I have the second highest number of reviews for a large 50 plus mile radius etc.
I've actually cut back a lot over the past few years but I still do between 400 and 500 a season which is only about 9 months.
My peak was 625 and I have no desire to do that again.
It's kind of a catch 22 for me because I'm an odd duck. I'd actually like to do less work but I do want more people to be able to keep their machines and not have to go buy these new crap ones.
I could just do half as many and double my prices and make the same amount of money and they'd still be lining up to get me to fix their stuff because I'd still be cheaper than all the other shops around but that's kind of a conflict of interest with me.
I refuse to raise my prices and be like those guys and be part of the problem.
It's funny, people have said for decades trying to tell me something like I don't know it or open my eyes telling me I won't always be able to do things or eventually I'll have to do this or that.
As I've gotten fairly older, I've come to realization that they are completely WRONG.
It seems from any logical assessment of the situation that I will be able to do things exactly my way and continue for the rest of my life or for as long as I still do them.
For years I knew there was a chance they may be right but now it looks like they were not.
This is quite comforting even though I know I'm leaving money on the table etc
But I don't really know what the point would be of making more. I just have to find somebody to spend it or something like that.
I'm extremely setting my ways and comfortable doing what I'm doing so I really don't want to add more things to my life or take up any expensive hobbies and I've already got most everything I really want so there's that.
I guess life is odd.
T
TobyU
I would have no faith in 1 oz per gallon fixing anything in fact I would guarantee and bet money on that not doing anything.Bottle says 1oz/gal. It didn't fix my problem. The carb was clean when I took it apart. I cleaned it anyway, and replaced the fuel filter. It had been on for a couple years anyway. When that didn't work, I looked at the electrical stuff. I found a bad coil. Plugs had weak spark, but only ran on 1 cylinder. I had to try an Amazon coil, but only risked $30.
This is why I say I've used it at much greater concentrations because I have gotten results from this.
If you found out later it was not fuel related but rather ignition, then you should have started your diagnosis process a little differently.
I have this down to a science because I see hundreds and hundreds of mowers that don't start every season.
So many people do things the hard way or the slow way which is starting with a spark plug normally but that's almost always a complete waste of time.
If a mother will not start at all and the first thing you do is giving an external fuel source straight into the intake underneath the air filter.
If it then starts to runs for a 3 or 4 seconds then you know it's mechanically sound otherwise.
If you have one that runs especially if it's a twin but is not running well or underpowered, then it's a little more difficult but still easy to figure out.
The fastest, but not the most accurate would be to give it a little bit of choke as it loses power to see if it recovers and if it does and seems to have close to full power, then it probably has a restriction and the carburetor and or jets.
However this can be a little hard to determine unless you have a lot of experience with them and it doing this exact same thing so I find it easier on a twin to first guarantee it's running on both cylinders.
To do this I get a thick glove, because I hate to be shocked, and then a rag or a towel.
I pop both spark plugs off and stick them back on so they are just barely on the plug.
Then I started and running at a medium speed, not slow and not fast just a little past slow so medium and then I use my rag and my gloved hand to pop one spark plug wire off and hold it away from the plug so it's no longer sparking to the plug.
It will either quit running although it should slow down a little bit and maybe run a little more roughly or it will completely die.
If it completely stops running then you know this is the only cylinder the engine is running on so the other one is not producing power.
If it does keep running you sufficiently canceled this cylinder out so then you go to the other cylinder and do the same thing to see what the results are.
If it's an ignition, valve, or other issue where one of your cylinders is not producing power, you will find it this way.
Then you can rule out your main problem being fuel so you don't have to worry about all the other stuff.
At least not for now because there's still the possibility that once you get both cylinders running properly that the carb might not be clean enough but that's tomorrow's problem.
Systematic and consistent troubleshooting of a known efficient approach is the best for these.
A good number of my customers started calling me the lawnmower whisperer about 11 years ago.
Once you get this down to a science, you can approach a lawn mower and diagnose with about 97% accuracy what the problem is in under 25 seconds.
I know some people don't get my rushing approach as they see it but I like to be efficient.
I don't really like to work and I do a lot of other things throughout my day of a personal nature.
So if I'm going to get anything done at all, or make any money, or get these mowers back to their customers, I have to be very efficient when I do work.
Surprisingly enough I must be doing a lot even though I'm a one-man show.
I must be doing comparable volume to other shops because I have the second highest number of reviews for a large 50 plus mile radius etc.
I've actually cut back a lot over the past few years but I still do between 400 and 500 a season which is only about 9 months.
My peak was 625 and I have no desire to do that again.
It's kind of a catch 22 for me because I'm an odd duck. I'd actually like to do less work but I do want more people to be able to keep their machines and not have to go buy these new crap ones.
I could just do half as many and double my prices and make the same amount of money and they'd still be lining up to get me to fix their stuff because I'd still be cheaper than all the other shops around but that's kind of a conflict of interest with me.
I refuse to raise my prices and be like those guys and be part of the problem.
It's funny, people have said for decades trying to tell me something like I don't know it or open my eyes telling me I won't always be able to do things or eventually I'll have to do this or that.
As I've gotten fairly older, I've come to realization that they are completely WRONG.
It seems from any logical assessment of the situation that I will be able to do things exactly my way and continue for the rest of my life or for as long as I still do them.
For years I knew there was a chance they may be right but now it looks like they were not.
This is quite comforting even though I know I'm leaving money on the table etc
But I don't really know what the point would be of making more. I just have to find somebody to spend it or something like that.
I'm extremely setting my ways and comfortable doing what I'm doing so I really don't want to add more things to my life or take up any expensive hobbies and I've already got most everything I really want so there's that.
I guess life is odd.
#71
D
davis2
D
davis2
I don't pretend to be any sort of mechanic, and am poor at diagnosis. I fix my own stuff out of necessity, but have some good friends to try to guide me.