Export thread

I just replaced one of my engines with a New 18HP B&S Vanguard v twin Model Number 356447 3079 G1 (serial Number 1804021104540). This goes on a Toro Greensmaster and the engine is connected to a hydraulic pump. I want to make sure the engine is running at proper high and low RPM. Does anyone know what this engine top RPM is supposed to be set from the factory? I was told 3600RPM (factory no load) which seems high. An idle of 1750 (red spring) or 1100 (white spring) is the idle speed. Out of the box it runs at 3575 high RPM and 1650 idle RPM (With a surge at low RPM).

What is the engine model 350447 type 1331-E1 code 04051311 supposed to run for high RPM? I thought I saw 2950 RPM in the service manual which is what I set it at. Why would these two engines have such a difference in high RPM if both of these numbers are correct for high RPM?

Also I see a change in oil requirements. My old manual states SAE 30Wt oil over 40 degrees change at 50 hrs and filter at 100. My new manual states oil change and filter at 100 hrs can use 5w-30 synthetic or 15w-50 B&S synthetic. Which is the best and does the new manual supersede the old manual for engine model 350447?

Thanks for all your help
Sean

5w-30 synthetic is correct, read engine manual, change oil & filter after first 5 hours, break in period, then every 100 hrs. i use Valvoline or Pennzoil 5w-30 synthetic & change b&s filter every oil change. i also check oil level before each use & keep a close eye on air filter, inspect often.

Sean your Vanguard is right on spot don't change anything.......

As far as the other I'll have to look that one up .......... What is the other engine on ???? It makes a difference ...........

My 18hp Vanguard is factory set at 3650. I reached out to Briggs directly with my engine code and they confirmed this for me.

Thanks for the replies. I will recheck the RPM at the first oil change for break in period to see if it has changed. Is there a certain procedure for break in a new engine? I am currently running straight 30W until the first oil change then I will switch to 5w-30 full syn. Any ideas on why it would be surging at idle speed fresh out of the box?

I have at least ten 18 HP B&S Vangaurd v twins in my fleet from various years and various hours that run hydraulic pumps on machines. Most have been set at 2850 RPM. I will check each number at my B&S dealer to see the correct top end RPM. Here are a few of my B&S engines @Boudreaux

350447 type 1331-E1 code 04051311
356447 type 0200-E1 code 06062211
356447 type 0200-G1 code 08051411

Sean

Sean2202 said:

Thanks for the replies. I will recheck the RPM at the first oil change for break in period to see if it has changed. Is there a certain procedure for break in a new engine? I am currently running straight 30W until the first oil change then I will switch to 5w-30 full syn. Any ideas on why it would be surging at idle speed fresh out of the box?

I have at least ten 18 HP B&S Vangaurd v twins in my fleet from various years and various hours that run hydraulic pumps on machines. Most have been set at 2850 RPM. I will check each number at my B&S dealer to see the correct top end RPM. Here are a few of my B&S engines @Boudreaux

350447 type 1331-E1 code 04051311
356447 type 0200-E1 code 06062211
356447 type 0200-G1 code 08051411

Sean

Click to expand...

Sean ........ The best way to explain the different RPM's on engines is this.......... When a manufacture company come out with a product, they will tell Briggs what they have and Briggs comes out with that engine for that company and that type of equipment they have....

Example..... You will see a lot of the same Model numbers with different TYPE codes, the middle set of numbers..... Those numbers are for the Trim color stickers ETC ETC......

RPM's are set at the factory with certain color coded springs and in a different hole on the governor arm for different applications, such as your hydraulic pumps..........

On push mowers RPM's are set to what size blade is on them ...... In the small Briggs engine manual there is a section for RPM's according to blade size......

Put it this way, if your Briggs are set to 2850 for your pumps and you pin them up to 3600 you could burn your pumps up..... Pumps are not a dime a dozen these days.......

Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!

Sean ..... This is your question from post #1


" What is the engine model 350447 type 1331-E1 code 04051311 supposed to run for high RPM? I thought I saw 2950 RPM in the service manual which is what I set it at"

2850 RPM's is what's in my Briggs power portal info.......

Sean........... Hold Da phone for a minute............... Are you saying that you replaced a engine that was running 2850 or 2950 RPM's on your Greenmaster with a engine that's running at 3600 RPM's ??????

Yes. Original engine (350447) was running at 2850 RPM as are other engines in the fleet (not 2950 checked my notes again) I have researched the FSM for this machine and it lists the top "no load" RPM to be 2850 (+or minus 50 )RPM for the hydraulic system. Idle is 1650 (+ or minus 100) which is what it is running out if the box. I was under the assumption this was a direct fit. Should I change governor springs / settings to get the " no load " speed set at 2850 on the replacement engine?

Here is the link for the replacement engine for this machine which comes up as B&S
3564473079G1 which is what I purchased. (Not from here though)

https://www.rrproducts.com/B~S-Engine-18-Hp-product380

Sean2202 said:

Yes. Original engine (350447) was running at 2850 RPM as are other engines in the fleet (not 2950 checked my notes again) I have researched the FSM for this machine and it lists the top "no load" RPM to be 2850 (+or minus 50 )RPM for the hydraulic system. Idle is 1650 (+ or minus 100) which is what it is running out if the box. I was under the assumption this was a direct fit. Should I change governor springs / settings to get the " no load " speed set at 2850 on the replacement engine?

Here is the link for the replacement engine for this machine which comes up as B&S
3564473079G1 which is what I purchased. (Not from here though)

https://www.rrproducts.com/B~S-Engine-18-Hp-product380

Click to expand...

No I cannot tell you to change your RPM settings..... You have to check with your dealer or Toro to see what the recommended RPM's are for your unit / pump........

The engine is a direct fit because it will bolt right up and the shaft is the same size...... RPM's should have been a factor in your equation when you talked to the Briggs tech on the phone ..... If you talked to a Briggs tech support rep....

Most all small engine warehouses will sell you a engine real fast to make the sale ........ They are not aware what you are putting the engine on in most cases...........

That's why when I order a repower engine for a customer I call my Brigg's Tech support to make sure that is the engine he needs...... In case something's not right I can return that engine to the warehouse........... No one wants to get stuck with a 1300 dollar engine....... And hold it for another 3 months or so and wait for another customer to come along ..........

Let us know what you find out ..............

Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!

Edit ............ BTW I did find out that the new engine you have is rated at 3600 RPM's ..... I read between the lines in a couple posts to figure out why you were asking those questions ~!~!

Dang I was speed reading again when I read your last post.... Yes if your Toro says it's 2850 then you have to change them.....

Did you buy the engine from a local dealer ???? If yes then they will do the work for free ......... If not then you have to do it or take it to a dealer to have them do it and that's your best bet to keep it under warranty ...........

When I looked to repower my Lazer Z I reached out to Briggs directly and the most suitable replacement is a 23hp engine since they do not carry a current production model 18hp that is set to run at 3,650. Since everything that is belt driven on these machines, matching the top no load speed to your old engine is likely the single most important consideration. Otherwise your blade tip speed, your hydro pump flow rates and drive motors will all work at a lower output than before. Going over the original RPM by a significant amount will lead to premature failure of belts, pumps and bearings everywhere.

cruzenmike said:

When I looked to repower my Lazer Z I reached out to Briggs directly and the most suitable replacement is a 23hp engine since they do not carry a current production model 18hp that is set to run at 3,650. Since everything that is belt driven on these machines, matching the top no load speed to your old engine is likely the single most important consideration. Otherwise your blade tip speed, your hydro pump flow rates and drive motors will all work at a lower output than before. Going over the original RPM by a significant amount will lead to premature failure of belts, pumps and bearings everywhere.

Click to expand...

I am confused by your statement that B&S states they do not make a 18hp engine that is set to run at 3650. That is about what my replacement is running. You are correct in that I do not want to overrun my pump. $$$$

@Boudreaux I did not talk to a B&S tech nor did I purchase locally. My mistake. I did look up the link that I gave you from R&R ( I get most of my parts through here they specialize in golf course equipment) and took the model number etc. and then purchased it ( Amazon)

If this engine is rated to run at 3650 and I govern it down to 2850 will it matter at all for longevity? I will check out the linkages on my old engine and compare them to the new one.

I do have one unit in my shop that has a similar replacement B&S engine and it was replaced a few years back. I will check the model number etc on this one and compare the gov springs and settings as well.

When I get back to this I will update what I find.

Sean2202 said:

I am confused by your statement that B&S states they do not make a 18hp engine that is set to run at 3650. That is about what my replacement is running. You are correct in that I do not want to overrun my pump. $$$$

@Boudreaux I did not talk to a B&S tech nor did I purchase locally. My mistake. I did look up the link that I gave you from R&R ( I get most of my parts through here they specialize in golf course equipment) and took the model number etc. and then purchased it ( Amazon)

If this engine is rated to run at 3650 and I govern it down to 2850 will it matter at all for longevity? I will check out the linkages on my old engine and compare them to the new one.

I do have one unit in my shop that has a similar replacement B&S engine and it was replaced a few years back. I will check the model number etc on this one and compare the gov springs and settings as well.

When I get back to this I will update what I find.

Click to expand...

I think what Mike mean't was Briggs doesn't sell them out the box set at 3650......

Yes Sean check out the springs and where they are hooked to....... Hole position ETC ..........There will be multiple holes on there.........

Yes please don't burn your pump $$$$$ for sure......

Let us know Mon Ami .........

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:

I think what Mike mean't was Briggs doesn't sell them out the box set at 3650.......

Click to expand...

That is correct. But for whatever reason, Briggs didn't recommend another 18hp and then adjusting the rpm to what I needed. My Exmark isn't a hot rod, so it's not like I want or need a larger engine.

Could there be significant changes in the Vanguard line from the mid 2000's to now? I know that my engine was assembled in Japan, possibly under Daihatsu. I thought Briggs moved Vanguard production to the US a few years ago?

My new engine says "made in Japan" on the valve cover. Unless only the valve cover is made is Japan. I believe my original engine was early 2000's

Sean2202 said:

My new engine says "made in Japan" on the valve cover. Unless only the valve cover is made is Japan. I believe my original engine was early 2000's

Click to expand...

I guess it hasn't happened just yet....

https://www.vanguardengines.com/na/...roduct-from-japan-to-georgia-and-alabama.html

cruzenmike said:

I guess it hasn't happened just yet....

https://www.vanguardengines.com/na/...roduct-from-japan-to-georgia-and-alabama.html

Click to expand...

I believe they mentioned it on the Briggs dealer update that the move is suppose to be completed by the end of this year.

Yes I agree with IL Engine, Briggs is in the process of Moving if it hasn't happened already......

I now have over 2k hours on this replacement engine set to 2850 WOT RPM and 1550 Idle speed. Set springs to match other equipment running at same RPM with same pumps. Very reliable engine with no issues. No issues with hydraulic components. Machine has 4944 hours total.

The default setting for most replacement mower small engines is 3600 RPM no load. Once installed, you must adjust that RPM setting according to your machines service information. Keep in mind that these replacement engines are used on many different applications, so they will not already be adjusted to your exact machine.

The engine governor does the rest of the work when it comes to loaded operations.

I guess I'm old school with a lot of old equipment, so I use conventional Pennzoil 10W-30 all year long here in South Texas and I change oil and filter every 50 hours or once per season depending on use. I am in severe dusty conditions most of the year.

Air filters are another important part. If it requires a foam pre-cleaner over the dry filter, lightly coat the foam with a few drops of engine oil and squeeze it around to spread the oil in the entire foam.