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T1200 won't crank... help please!!
#1
Sgt_Jamez
Sgt_Jamez
So I inherited a 2017 T1200 #247.203776 from my step dad. It was purchased new, rode hard, and put away wet as it were.
The other day, I was mowing and I got off to grab something. It of course turned off. I turned the key, nothing. Pushed it into the garage and checked the battery. Weak but not dead. Tried jumping it from a car. Nothing. No click of any kind. I read a bunch if posts and watched a ton of videos.
I checked the fuse and its ok.
Pulled the solenoid and bench checked it. 12v applied to the spade lugs would trigger the solenoid and a multi-meter showed good continuity across the posts when triggered.
Pulled the seat switch and manually tested. Switch works.
I tested the ignition switch and saw continuity where I expected it.
I have not been able to test the reverse button (ordered a whole new ignition switch from Amazon today).
I disconnected the kill wire going to the coil and set up the multi-meter for continuity from frame to the end of the coil wire going to the harness.
Foot brake off, empty seat, blade disengaged = ground continuity (beep).
Pushing the foot brake would break continuity (no beep).
Engaging the seat switch = no beep
Locking the parking brake, seat empty, blade disengaged = beep
Locking the parking brake, seat empty, engaging the blade = no beep
So that checks out the foot brake switch, the parking brake switch, the seat switch, and the blade engagement switch.
I don't know how to test the reverse cutoff.
Also, with everything normaled up... sitting in the seat, pushing the brake, and turning the key... someone touching the carb solenoid feels no engagement.
If the carb solenoid was dead, would that cause the no click, no nothing situation?
When the key is turned, the main solenoid under the seat is not making any audible noise.
What am I missing?
The other day, I was mowing and I got off to grab something. It of course turned off. I turned the key, nothing. Pushed it into the garage and checked the battery. Weak but not dead. Tried jumping it from a car. Nothing. No click of any kind. I read a bunch if posts and watched a ton of videos.
I checked the fuse and its ok.
Pulled the solenoid and bench checked it. 12v applied to the spade lugs would trigger the solenoid and a multi-meter showed good continuity across the posts when triggered.
Pulled the seat switch and manually tested. Switch works.
I tested the ignition switch and saw continuity where I expected it.
I have not been able to test the reverse button (ordered a whole new ignition switch from Amazon today).
I disconnected the kill wire going to the coil and set up the multi-meter for continuity from frame to the end of the coil wire going to the harness.
Foot brake off, empty seat, blade disengaged = ground continuity (beep).
Pushing the foot brake would break continuity (no beep).
Engaging the seat switch = no beep
Locking the parking brake, seat empty, blade disengaged = beep
Locking the parking brake, seat empty, engaging the blade = no beep
So that checks out the foot brake switch, the parking brake switch, the seat switch, and the blade engagement switch.
I don't know how to test the reverse cutoff.
Also, with everything normaled up... sitting in the seat, pushing the brake, and turning the key... someone touching the carb solenoid feels no engagement.
If the carb solenoid was dead, would that cause the no click, no nothing situation?
When the key is turned, the main solenoid under the seat is not making any audible noise.
What am I missing?
#2
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
First thing I would be checking are the battery terminals for cleanliness and tightness. Second would be the ground to chassis connection, clean and tightness. Here is the troubleshooting procedure I use.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
#4
Sgt_Jamez
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
** I was a communications electronics tech for the Air Force for 21 years. I don't have much automotive or small engine/lawn mower repair experience.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
** I have most basic tools, wrenches, screwdrivers, sockets/drivers, meters etc. Nothing terribly specialized.
3. How well you follow directions.
** I will do my best to follow directions given.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
** Doing my best.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
** I pulled the fuse and did a continuity check and it read good. I measured the battery using a voltmeter, and it was above 12 but I don't remember by how much. I also used a battery load tester and it did show weak, so I know a new battery is on the table. But using a car to jump the mower did not work.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
** On this model, the solenoid is not readily accessible for testing. It's located inside the frame, under the seat. I removed the entire solenoid for a bench check. I also continuity checked the cable running direct to the (+) battery terminal and it checked good. I will attempt to figure out how to get the solenoid wired up outside of it's normal position for testing and I will check the voltage on the large terminal with the battery connected.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
** I will report back once I can do some testing with the solenoid outside of the frame.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
** I will report back once I can do some testing with the solenoid outside of the frame.
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
** I will perform this test and report back.
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
** I performed a continuity check from the (-) battery terminal to the frame. Checked good.
I read that turning the key, the fuel solenoid should activate, vibrate, click, make a sound, do something. For me, seated, pushing the brake, and turning the key the fuel solenoid makes no sound or vibration at all.
Would a bad fuel solenoid cause the whole "no-click, no reaction of any kind" situation? I keep thinking I should at least hear/feel the main solenoid click when I turn the key. It clicks very audibly when I removed and bench checked it.
Sgt_Jamez
Thank you for the reply. I will try to be as thorough as possible. The mower is currently at my mom's house so I will be as accurate as I can without being able to immediately verify.First thing I would be checking are the battery terminals for cleanliness and tightness. Second would be the ground to chassis connection, clean and tightness. Here is the troubleshooting procedure I use.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
** I was a communications electronics tech for the Air Force for 21 years. I don't have much automotive or small engine/lawn mower repair experience.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
** I have most basic tools, wrenches, screwdrivers, sockets/drivers, meters etc. Nothing terribly specialized.
3. How well you follow directions.
** I will do my best to follow directions given.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
** Doing my best.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
** I pulled the fuse and did a continuity check and it read good. I measured the battery using a voltmeter, and it was above 12 but I don't remember by how much. I also used a battery load tester and it did show weak, so I know a new battery is on the table. But using a car to jump the mower did not work.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
** On this model, the solenoid is not readily accessible for testing. It's located inside the frame, under the seat. I removed the entire solenoid for a bench check. I also continuity checked the cable running direct to the (+) battery terminal and it checked good. I will attempt to figure out how to get the solenoid wired up outside of it's normal position for testing and I will check the voltage on the large terminal with the battery connected.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
** I will report back once I can do some testing with the solenoid outside of the frame.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
** I will report back once I can do some testing with the solenoid outside of the frame.
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
** I will perform this test and report back.
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
** I performed a continuity check from the (-) battery terminal to the frame. Checked good.
I read that turning the key, the fuel solenoid should activate, vibrate, click, make a sound, do something. For me, seated, pushing the brake, and turning the key the fuel solenoid makes no sound or vibration at all.
Would a bad fuel solenoid cause the whole "no-click, no reaction of any kind" situation? I keep thinking I should at least hear/feel the main solenoid click when I turn the key. It clicks very audibly when I removed and bench checked it.
#5
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
When I run into a unit like yours I remove the battery and then I use jumper cables to reattach the battery wires to the battery terminals. This allows me to access the solenoid for testing. Second, if you are not getting voltage past the solenoid you won’t have voltage to activate the fuel solenoid.
#6
S
slomo
S
slomo
My guy, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!I was a communications electronics tech for the Air Force for 21 years.
#7
Sgt_Jamez
** 3/1/25 - Battery reads 12.85vDC connected and 13.02vDC disconnected
Second
** 3/1/25 - I moved the solenoid and used jumper cables to get the battery connected to the mower cables. Showed 13.02vDC at the large solenoid terminal connected to the battery.
Third
** 3/1/25 - I checked voltage at the small terminal on my 4-wire solenoid while turning the key to the start position. Meter showed 0vDC.
I had ordered a new starter swtich assembly and installed it. I repeated these checks with the new switch in place with the same results. 0vDC at the (+) solenoid terminal does seem to indicate a safety switch or wiring.
I have pulled out and tested the seat switch and it checks out.
Starter switch replaced.
In my original post, I had performed a test which I believe checked out the switches.
Do I need to remove and individually test each switch or is there a better way to check this?
If it's the wiring, what kind of test is there for that?
Fourth
** 3/1/25 - I checked for voltage at the other large terminal while turning the key to the start position. Meter showed 0vDC.
Fifth
** 3/1/25 - I checked for voltage at the starter (+) terminal while turning the key to the start position. Meter showed 0vDC.
Sixth
** 3/1/25 - I confirmed good continuity from (-) battery terminal to the frame.
Sgt_Jamez
FirstThank you for the reply. I will try to be as thorough as possible. The mower is currently at my mom's house so I will be as accurate as I can without being able to immediately verify.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
** I was a communications electronics tech for the Air Force for 21 years. I don't have much automotive or small engine/lawn mower repair experience.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
** I have most basic tools, wrenches, screwdrivers, sockets/drivers, meters etc. Nothing terribly specialized.
3. How well you follow directions.
** I will do my best to follow directions given.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
** Doing my best.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
** I pulled the fuse and did a continuity check and it read good. I measured the battery using a voltmeter, and it was above 12 but I don't remember by how much. I also used a battery load tester and it did show weak, so I know a new battery is on the table. But using a car to jump the mower did not work.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
** On this model, the solenoid is not readily accessible for testing. It's located inside the frame, under the seat. I removed the entire solenoid for a bench check. I also continuity checked the cable running direct to the (+) battery terminal and it checked good. I will attempt to figure out how to get the solenoid wired up outside of it's normal position for testing and I will check the voltage on the large terminal with the battery connected.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
** I will report back once I can do some testing with the solenoid outside of the frame.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
** I will report back once I can do some testing with the solenoid outside of the frame.
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
** I will perform this test and report back.
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
** I performed a continuity check from the (-) battery terminal to the frame. Checked good.
I read that turning the key, the fuel solenoid should activate, vibrate, click, make a sound, do something. For me, seated, pushing the brake, and turning the key the fuel solenoid makes no sound or vibration at all.
Would a bad fuel solenoid cause the whole "no-click, no reaction of any kind" situation? I keep thinking I should at least hear/feel the main solenoid click when I turn the key. It clicks very audibly when I removed and bench checked it.
** 3/1/25 - Battery reads 12.85vDC connected and 13.02vDC disconnected
Second
** 3/1/25 - I moved the solenoid and used jumper cables to get the battery connected to the mower cables. Showed 13.02vDC at the large solenoid terminal connected to the battery.
Third
** 3/1/25 - I checked voltage at the small terminal on my 4-wire solenoid while turning the key to the start position. Meter showed 0vDC.
I had ordered a new starter swtich assembly and installed it. I repeated these checks with the new switch in place with the same results. 0vDC at the (+) solenoid terminal does seem to indicate a safety switch or wiring.
I have pulled out and tested the seat switch and it checks out.
Starter switch replaced.
In my original post, I had performed a test which I believe checked out the switches.
Do I need to remove and individually test each switch or is there a better way to check this?
If it's the wiring, what kind of test is there for that?
Fourth
** 3/1/25 - I checked for voltage at the other large terminal while turning the key to the start position. Meter showed 0vDC.
Fifth
** 3/1/25 - I checked for voltage at the starter (+) terminal while turning the key to the start position. Meter showed 0vDC.
Sixth
** 3/1/25 - I confirmed good continuity from (-) battery terminal to the frame.
#8
Sgt_Jamez
Sgt_Jamez
I appreciate you saying that! On behalf of all vets, thank you sincerely.My guy, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!
#9
Sgt_Jamez
Looking up the solenoid at https://www.partswarehouse.com/Craf...awn-Tractor-s/501597.htm?asymID=289337|431502 shows part # 725-06153A. All images I can find show that to be a 4-terminal solenoid. I guess Craftstman went oddball with this?
Sgt_Jamez
Thank you for the schematic! I will be reading through that tonight!Troubleshooting the electrical is no different than troubleshooting any other electric or electronic as long you have a schematic and know that they use different terms for components.
Here is something very rare for MTD mowers. It is electrical Schematic to troubleshoot by. IF the diagram is correct someone installed what is called a four post solenoid in place of the three post version. They work fine as long as one of the small posts is grounded by the means of short jumper wire to ground.
View attachment 70548
Looking up the solenoid at https://www.partswarehouse.com/Craf...awn-Tractor-s/501597.htm?asymID=289337|431502 shows part # 725-06153A. All images I can find show that to be a 4-terminal solenoid. I guess Craftstman went oddball with this?
#10
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
If you are getting 0 VDC you will need to start checking all connections between the key switch and the solenoid, this includes all safety switches. Before doing that check to see if you have 12VDC at the B terminal on the key switch. IF 0 VDC at the terminal of the key switch, you’ll have to find where you are losing power between the solenoid and key switch.
#11
E
elmrfudd
E
elmrfudd
You said when you got off to move something, that of course, it shut off. When you did that, did you disengage your blades first? If not, you are activating two interlock switches, as opposed to one, which most obviously would be the seat switch. Be sure your blades are disengaged and you're on the seat when trying again. Two interlock switches activated creates a compounded problem, as we typically think it's a single issue we're looking for. Also, when jumping your battery from a car, NEVER run the car while jumping to the mower, as you run a risk of destroying your mowers starter, charging system, and other electrical components such as fuses, diodes and electronic switches. I've seen this on a few occasions. Hope this helps.
#12
F
Forest#2
F
Forest#2
I would try to find a electrical schematic on-line and download/print of the machine and then troubleshoot. (since you indicate you have a electronics background and know how to use a voltmeter)
To get a crank/click
assuming good battery and fuse and fuse holder, ign switch.
Normally the PTO has to be OFF
the brake/clutch depressed
Some require to be setting in the seat, some don't.
To get a crank/click
assuming good battery and fuse and fuse holder, ign switch.
Normally the PTO has to be OFF
the brake/clutch depressed
Some require to be setting in the seat, some don't.
#13
F
Freddie21
F
Freddie21
For another path to find the problem, Ground the jumper NEG cable end to the engine block, touch the POS cable end to the starter connection. The starter should spin and the engine should turn over. Won't start as key switch in OFF position. If not, then I would remove the starter and bench test. The engine should be able to be turned by hand.
Now, your back tracking for the problem. Has to be 12v on the small solenoid connection and the solenoid grounded when the key is in the START pos. The solenoid should click.
If no 12v there, then check the key switch for 12v at the B connection and at the S connection when in START position.. The fact that the carb solenoid is not clicking is an indicator that either the 12v to the key switch is missing, or the switch is bad. If there is 12v at the key switch then there's a wiring connection issue, or safety switch issue. When checking the seat switch, try zip tying it rather than unplugging. This is just for testing.
Now, your back tracking for the problem. Has to be 12v on the small solenoid connection and the solenoid grounded when the key is in the START pos. The solenoid should click.
If no 12v there, then check the key switch for 12v at the B connection and at the S connection when in START position.. The fact that the carb solenoid is not clicking is an indicator that either the 12v to the key switch is missing, or the switch is bad. If there is 12v at the key switch then there's a wiring connection issue, or safety switch issue. When checking the seat switch, try zip tying it rather than unplugging. This is just for testing.