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John Deere GT235, with Briggs 350777 1137-F1

Nothing coming from the key, so I put the jumper on it, crossed the solenoid with a screw driver. The gear spins very strong. But it's not coming up to engage the flywheel. I used a 90 degree pick to get under the gear and pulled it up. And it came up without having to pry it. It wasn't stuck on anything. When I remove the pick, it goes back in place a little slow. But within about 2 seconds its back back where it starts.

I've never messed with these. Is there a reason it's spinning fine, but not going up?

If the battery polarity is reversed the starter will spin but the gear will not come up because the starter is spinning the wrong way.

If the polarity is correct, the bendix drive is worn and needs to be replaced.

Rivets said:

If the polarity is correct, the bendix drive is worn and needs to be replaced.

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That would keep the plunger from pushing the gear up?
This is the starter.

With starter mounted solenoids, the contacts inside the solenoid may be corroded or worn. I used to rebuild them but because it was getting harder and expensive to get parts, I stopped. Many time the cheapest fix is to replace the starter.

This is a solenoid shifter. You can't just jumper the two large terminals. Try jumping the battery side large terminal to the trigger terminal. IF it works read the following.

Back several years ago JD had problems with solenoid shift starters not working correctly. (Kohler engines but the same can apply here). This requires an addition of a relay to the trigger circuit as there is too much of a voltage drop in the normal wiring harness. I can post a diagram if needed of the circuit needed.

PTmowerMech said:

That would keep the plunger from pushing the gear up?
This is the starter.
View attachment 51005

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That type of solenoid not only energizes the starter like the normal mower type starter but also pushes the starter gear into contact with the flywheel. If that fails it can act like the normal solenoid that you see most of the time, or if the gear doesn't go to the fully engaged position can also give the same symptoms. Think automotive style starters.

Rivets said:

With starter mounted solenoids, the contacts inside the solenoid may be corroded or worn. I used to rebuild them but because it was getting harder and expensive to get parts, I stopped. Many time the cheapest fix is to replace the starter.

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On the Kohler shift starters at one time the price difference between the solenoid and the complete starter was $16. $171 solenoid on a $187 starter.

So can I just replace the solenoid on this?

BTW, the brushes in these are easier to put back in, that the normal small engine starters.

Yes PN 825418 138 usd list. Starter is 261 usd list.

Thanks for everyone's help. Gonna order just the solenoid.
This thing was scary, til I got it all apart and started cleaning it up and seeing how it all works.

I suppose the solenoid plunger wasn't coming down, so that was not pushing the gear upwards.

Did you even bother to try what I suggested? Hate to see you get a new solenoid to only have the same problem just because a voltage drop.

If the solenoid pulls in but the starter doesn't spin or spins slow you can usually disassemble the solenoid contacts and turn the terminals 180 degrees and flip the contact disc over. If you replace brushes sand and crocus cloth the commutator and undercut the insulators. Unless someone fried the windings you can usually fix most starters.

Hammermechanicman said:

If the solenoid pulls in but the starter doesn't spin or spins slow you can usually disassemble the solenoid contacts and turn the terminals 180 degrees and flip the contact disc over. If you replace brushes sand and crocus cloth the commutator and undercut the insulators. Unless someone fried the windings you can usually fix most starters.

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The gear spins and spins fast.
But that's some good info. I've never been inside a solenoid before.

StarTech said:

Did you even bother to try what I suggested? Hate to see you get a new solenoid to only have the same problem just because a voltage drop.

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No, I didn't quite understand what you meant at first. I will tomorrow. I haven't ordered anything yet.

I didn't think so. Do i need to try to explain it better?

It may not be the problem but it just sounds like there is not voltage and current to fully retract the solenoid. This a common problem JD had with the solenoid shift starters on their equipment due the long runs of wire in the trigger circuit. Since JD primarily only used Kawasaki and Kohler engines, those are only ones that I have seen the problem on but it is possible with any engine with a solenoid shift starter. JD actually sells a kit for this but it is easily by the tech once they understand what JD does with the kit at a much lower price.

Wire does have resistance as low as it is, it still becomes a problem on long runs; unless, a larger size is used. This is especially true at the currents involved.

Now the disc the fellows are talking about only affects the main starter motor and has nothing to with the solenoid retracting; unless, it get welded to the contacts then the starter motor would constant spin. Yes I have seen them burned that why they use copper as it doesn't welds easily especially to it self. I have seen a few remote solenoids contacts to be welded from excessive current and the starter operated basically the same as the remote solenoids except it also engages the starter bendix.

Testing the starter is pretty easy.
Remove the starter from unit
Get a pair of jumper cables and battery
Connect batt - to starter case
Connect batt+ to the top large terminal on starter. If starter spins connected to wrong terminal
Connect jumper between small terminal and large terminal the batt is connected to. Solenoid should engage and the srarter spin. Be careful starter will try to jump off the bench.
If solenoid does not pull in bad coil or bound up linkage.
If solenoid pulls in but starter does not spin bad contacts in solenoid.
Doesn't check starter capacity, just operation.
If it passes reinstall starter and see if you get ~12V at the trigger wire when you turn key to start then do a voltage drop test at the trigger terminal.
Tell us what happens

Ok, I got it.
Neg- to starter casing (ground)
Pos + to big post, gear come up only about 1/8th but spins like it's suppose to.
Move the pos+ to the small connection, and gear comes all the way up, but barely spins.

You have to connect the batt+ to the top big terminal and leave it there. Use a jumper from that terminal(batt+) to the small terminal to test it. Don't move the the large cable from the batt off the top terminal of the solenoid.
The jumper supplies 12v to the solenoid coil to engage the solenoid. At the back of the solenoid is a disc that contacts both large terminals to supply power to the motor. You don't connect anything to the bottom large terminal on the solenoid.

Ok, that worked. Starter tested good that way. Thank you guys.
Looks like i'm going to be testing safety switches next. Turn the key on this JD, and get nothing.

do you get any voltage change at the wire when you turn the key to start?
If so you have a high resistance connection somewhere. Probably switch contacts.
If no voltage at the trigger wire then try to find a point you can test at somewhere near the middle of the circuit and test for voltage when you turn the key. This will let you half split the circuit and with one test isolate problem to half the circuit.
If you get no voltage then priblem between keyswitch and the test point. If you get voltage then problem between that point and solenoid.
Wire don't fail in the middle without something physically damaging them. Problem is always at the ends of wires or what they are hooked to.

Don’t forget to check voltage drop at the battery when you turn the key to the start position. If the voltage drops below 9V you may not have enough current to engage and hold the solenoid properly. This would indicate a weak or bad cell in the battery, causing your problems.

Hammermechanicman said:

do you get any voltage change at the wire when you turn the key to start?
If so you have a high resistance connection somewhere. Probably switch contacts.
If no voltage at the trigger wire then try to find a point you can test at somewhere near the middle of the circuit and test for voltage when you turn the key. This will let you half split the circuit and with one test isolate problem to half the circuit.
If you get no voltage then priblem between keyswitch and the test point. If you get voltage then problem between that point and solenoid.
Wire don't fail in the middle without something physically damaging them. Problem is always at the ends of wires or what they are hooked to.

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I'm got the starter to engage the flywheel now. Clutch/brake safety switch contacts weren't contacting with the brake locked. Had to push it another 1/8th inch to make connection. Gonna charge the battery and look for a wiring diagram of this. The cables on this are from a vehicle. While the battery is a mower batter. Nothing but positive cable connected to + side of the battery.
There's a circuit board or two under the dash. "WHOOPYYYY". Something else I don't know a thing about.
Both fuses test good. Engine turns over. So I think the next step is getting a charging wire, and fixing the spliced wires going to the voltage regulator.


I'd better put some coffee on.

That circuit board has a starter relay on it.

Would you accept the wiring diagram PDF of the GT235. It 9 pages. I can email you but you would to PM me your email address.

With the engine running you should have about 13.5 volts on the red wire with engine at speed. Red wire goes to battery but JD may over complicate it because they can.

Hammermechanicman said:

With the engine running you should have about 13.5 volts on the red wire with engine at speed. Red wire goes to battery but JD may over complicate it because they can.

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I was getting the exact amount the battery had in it.
The most was 12.61. It started out at 12.58. Rose to 12.61.
A few minutes later, after a few starts and checking some other stuff, it was down to about 12.5.

Plenty of AC. DC matched the battery.

Did you make sure the regulator was grounded to the engine before testing. If the regulator isn't grounded it won't work.

Upon closer inspection or you picture the center tab of the regulator does not appear to be going into the connector. Is it? And like ilengine said make sure the regulator case is grounded.

ILENGINE said:

Did you make sure the regulator was grounded to the engine before testing. If the regulator isn't grounded it won't work.

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No, it wasn't.

Funny thing about this. The two bolt holes on the side of the engine, match the holes on the regulator. But, the ONLY way to get it to fit flush on the engine, is the turn the fins towards the ending, and put spacers between the regulators tabs and the engine. If the fins are turned outwards, the connector itself keeps it from sitting flush.

The regulator I looked up for this engine, only has one hole. I can see a nut factory welded to the back of the plate a regulator mounts to. But I didn't check to see if there were two.

PTmowerMech said:

No, it wasn't.

Funny thing about this. The two bolt holes on the side of the engine, match the holes on the regulator. But, the ONLY way to get it to fit flush on the engine, is the turn the fins towards the ending, and put spacers between the regulators tabs and the engine. If the fins are turned outwards, the connector itself keeps it from sitting flush.

The regulator I looked up for this engine, only has one hole. I can see a nut factory welded to the back of the plate a regulator mounts to. But I didn't check to see if there were two.

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Here is something even funnier. That is a Kohler 15 amp half wave regulator/rectifier attached to a Briggs engine.

You want the fins facing inward into the engine shroud for the extra air cooling if possible. Or at least that how Kohler mounts their voltage regulators.

StarTech said:

You want the fins facing inward into the engine shroud for the extra air cooling if possible. Or at least that how Kohler mounts their voltage regulators.

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Seems like I remember seeing the black resin side always facing outward, instead of the fins. I've got another one, the right one, on the list to order. Stens 435-195. The mounting holes looks like they'll match.
It's a little pricey though, at almost $60.

That the style the IPL indicates for this engine. At the tech didn't cut the connectors and housings.

PTmowerMech said:

No, it wasn't.

Funny thing about this. The two bolt holes on the side of the engine, match the holes on the regulator. But, the ONLY way to get it to fit flush on the engine, is the turn the fins towards the ending, and put spacers between the regulators tabs and the engine. If the fins are turned outwards, the connector itself keeps it from sitting flush.

The regulator I looked up for this engine, only has one hole. I can see a nut factory welded to the back of the plate a regulator mounts to. But I didn't check to see if there were two.

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PT you can google "Briggs alternator chart pdf" and you can get a nice color chart to help identify Briggs alternators and regulators by engine type. Maybe this link will work
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/c...FjAIegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw18u2KXso3GQCzGHE-lzBZU[/URL]

Hammermechanicman said:

PT you can google "Briggs alternator chart pdf" and you can get a nice color chart to help identify Briggs alternators and regulators by engine type. Maybe this link will work

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAIegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw18u2KXso3GQCzGHE-lzBZU

[/URL]

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Thanks man. The link didn't work for me. But I found it.

StarTech said:

That the style the IPL indicates for this engine. At the tech didn't cut the connectors and housings.

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I found the same stens part on Amazon for $20. At least it says it's a stens.

You can also google "alternator replacement guide pdf " and get a good guide to briggs alternators

PTmowerMech said:

I found the same stens part on Amazon for $20. At least it says it's a stens.

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Doubt if it is stens. That is less than half the gold level price. Not saying it isn't the same China part. Just not from stens.

PTmowerMech said:

Seems like I remember seeing the black resin side always facing outward, instead of the fins. I've got another one, the right one, on the list to order. Stens 435-195. The mounting holes looks like they'll match.
It's a little pricey though, at almost $60.
View attachment 51026

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As you said it is pricey. That Briggs 845907 can be replaced with 593490. It just the yellow connector is white and list for only $33.80. Both are 15 amp regulators.

Hammermechanicman said:

Doubt if it is stens. That is less than half the gold level price. Not saying it isn't the same China part. Just not from stens.

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I think Stens sells chinese parts. As a matter of fact, I was looking at bearings the other day, on Stens.com, and seen "Made in China" stamp on one of their bearings.

But I'm with you about it probably isn't a stens. That's why I mentioned it. It was on my mind.
@bertsmobile1 and others have noted a few times how fake parts get falsely labeled as OEM's.