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Snapper won't crank

#1

navydad2022

navydad2022

Cut my front yard and parked the mower to trim edge my yard and it won't crank over.l first heard the solenoid click and then silence nothing.Tried pull starting and nothing.l am charging my battery just in case and the solenoid is new .it has a starter and pull start attachment. 21A907-0124-E1and snapper 281223BVE


#2

O

Ocean909

So if you're saying the engine cranks, but won't fire with either starter or pull cord I'd check for spark next. If no spark, pull the kill wire on the ignition. If you then have spark, interlock or ground issue, if not bad ignition module


#3

navydad2022

navydad2022

No,the engine doesn't crank or do l hear the ignition module click.l charged the battery but no luck. After l turn the mower off and came back it just click and then nothing.l even tried to pull start it and it usually starts but not this time.could it be a fuse, module, safety switch.


#4

navydad2022

navydad2022

Ocean909 said:
So if you're saying the engine cranks, but won't fire with either starter or pull cord I'd check for spark next. If no spark, pull the kill wire on the ignition. If you then have spark, interlock or ground issue, if not bad ignition module
Click to expand...

Ocean909, I'm going to disconnect kill wire on module to check for spark​



#5

R

Rivets

You have either a bad connection in the starting circuit (first one I would check is the battery neg to chassis) or bad battery. Hook a volt meter to the battery and watch for any changes when you turn the key from off to run. Voltage drops below 10VDC is an indicator of bad battery. Very little or no voltage change means you are looking for a loose or bad connection.


#6

navydad2022

navydad2022

Ocean909 said:
So if you're saying the engine cranks, but won't fire with either starter or pull cord I'd check for spark next. If no spark, pull the kill wire on the ignition. If you then have spark, interlock or ground issue, if not bad ignition module
Click to expand...

Ocean909 I'm going to disconnect kill wire on module to check for spark​

navydad2022 said:

Ocean909, I'm going to disconnect kill wire on module to check for spark​

Click to expand...
Would a bad ignition switch also cause this,l was working fine until l shut it off.


#7

navydad2022

navydad2022

Rivets said:
You have either a bad connection in the starting circuit (first one I would check is the battery neg to chassis) or bad battery. Hook a volt meter to the battery and watch for any changes when you turn the key from off to run. Voltage drops below 10VDC is an indicator of bad battery. Very little or no voltage change means you are looking for a loose or bad connection.
Click to expand...
Thank you

Rivets​

Lawn


#8

S

slomo

Are you hearing the carb solenoid click or the starter solenoid? IF your carb has one?

You can temp pull the wires off the carb solenoid and test for sound.

Wondering if the starter solenoid is clicking or not.


#9

navydad2022

navydad2022

slomo said:
Are you hearing the carb solenoid click or the starter solenoid? IF your carb has one?

You can temp pull the wires off the carb solenoid and test for sound.

Wondering if the starter solenoid is clicking or not.
Click to expand...
My carb doesn't have a solenoid,my mower is dead silent.


#10

navydad2022

navydad2022

navydad2022 said:
My carb doesn't have a solenoid,my mower is dead silent.
Click to expand...
I was going to jump the starter to see if it cranks with out the ground wire


#11

S

slomo

navydad2022 said:
I was going to jump the starter to see if it cranks with out the ground wire
Click to expand...
No sir. You must have a ground on the starter of some kind. All about current flow.


#12

O

Ocean909

Does the engine seem normal when you yank the pull rope? Turns correctly with compression?

If it doesn't have a fuel solenoid it should start with the pull rope. When you yank the pull start, is the key turned to the on position? All safety's engaged?


#13

R

Rivets

Slomo, ground is through the starter case. Try this troubleshooting procedure and see if it helps.

Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.

1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.

Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.

First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.

After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.

Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.


#14

navydad2022

navydad2022

navydad2022 said:
I was going to jump the starter to see if it cranks with out the ground wire
Click to expand...
It has to fuses that l need to check,


#15

O

Ocean909

@Rivets If this mower has a pull start, and nothing is grounding out spark shouldn't it fire if its getting fuel regardless of battery/electrical issues? Asking for my education as well as this posters problem.


#16

navydad2022

navydad2022

Rivets said:
Slomo, ground is through the starter case. Try this troubleshooting procedure and see if it helps.

Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.

1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.

Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.

First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.

After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.

Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
Click to expand...
Thank you

Rivets I'll go down your process,as l am not to mechanical incline but l am familiar with the process on what it takes for engine to start.🤞​



#17

R

Rivets

I’ve used this procedure (tweaked a little for different equipment) for many years. If I’m reading this thread right he’s talking about a problem getting the engine to turn over. That’s why I posted the procedure, but if my assumptions are wrong it’s a waste of time. If I was standing next to the equipment 80% of the time I would figure out the answer in less than an hour, but I’m a thousand miles away so all I can do is give suggestions.


#18

S

slomo

Rivets said:
Slomo, ground is through the starter case.
Click to expand...
Not if he removed the ground wire.

Here it is again.

navydad2022 said:


I was going to jump the starter to see if it cranks with out the ground wire


#19

S

slomo

What was the outcome of the below suggestion?

Ocean909 I'm going to disconnect kill wire on module to check for spark​


navydad2022 said:

Ocean909, I'm going to disconnect kill wire on module to check for spark​

Click to expand...


#20

R

Rivets

Slomo, I’ve just about had it with you. You have very little, if any, understanding about how the different electrical circuits on small engine equipment works. You post things that make no sense if anyone reads the entire thread. In this case I’m assuming that the OP means the kill (ground) wire to the coil module. Your posts most often hurt the chances of anyone solving their problems. Please stay out of any thread which you see “Rivets” in unless you have any proven information to suggest. If you don’t and I see you post bad info I’m going to call you out in a fashion you will not like.
To the OP, please accept my apology for ranting in the middle of your thread, but know I’m here until you solve this problem.


#21

S

slomo

Rivets said:
Slomo, I’ve just about had it with you. You have very little, if any, understanding about how the different electrical circuits on small engine equipment works. You post things that make no sense if anyone reads the entire thread. In this case I’m assuming that the OP means the kill (ground) wire to the coil module. Your posts most often hurt the chances of anyone solving their problems. Please stay out of any thread which you see “Rivets” in unless you have any proven information to suggest. If you don’t and I see you post bad info I’m going to call you out in a fashion you will not like.
To the OP, please accept my apology for ranting in the middle of your thread, but know I’m here until you solve this problem.
Click to expand...
Rivets, no doubt I have a lot to learn. No argument there Rivets. I only react to what is typed out for us to decipher Rivets. Trying to help everyone here if possible.

Some starters have ground cables attached. Some are grounded through the engine block. I get it, all good Rivets.

Puzzled why you are taking a mower forum to a personal level? I have no ill will towards you. Sorry to have ruffled your feathers sir.


#22

R

Rivets

Slomo, ALL of todays DC starters use on small engines are ground through the case, with the exception of starter/generators which I doubt you have ever worked on. Why are my feathers ruffled? Because for the last three months you keep posting info which has very little benefit to the thread. Many times you fail to read or maybe don’t understand what is posted by others trying to help and even repeat what other have all ready suggested. If you post good relevant material I’ve got no problem, but tell people to purchase expensive equipment or products which will cause the members more problems, I will no longer let it slide off my back. Ex; purchase a $70.00 spark tester which may be used once or twice, using HighTac are materials which it will ruin. This is not helpful to anyone and the teacher in me will not let me stay silent. You may now go to the back of the long list of members who hate me, that will roll off my back.


#23

navydad2022

navydad2022

Rivets said:
I’ve used this procedure (tweaked a little for different equipment) for many years. If I’m reading this thread right he’s talking about a problem getting the engine to turn over. That’s why I posted the procedure, but if my assumptions are wrong it’s a waste of time. If I was standing next to the equipment 80% of the time I would figure out the answer in less than an hour, but I’m a thousand miles away so all I can do is give suggestions.
Click to expand...
Well l did some trouble shooting and found my fuse came out,now my ignition solenoid buzzes but no crank.have 12.89 DC at starter but no crank.Is there a way to test starter.it started here and there and now nothing but the solenoid buzzing


#24

navydad2022

navydad2022

navydad2022 said:
Well l did some trouble shooting and found my fuse came out,now my ignition solenoid buzzes but no crank.have 12.89 DC at starter but no crank.Is there a way to test starter.it started here and there and now nothing but the solenoid buzzing
Click to expand...
It's weird because l can't pull start it,but when it does crank l go and pull start it and it works.


#25

R

Rivets

Steps 3-5 in my procedure. I’ll be back tomorrow.


#26

navydad2022

navydad2022

Rivets said:
Steps 3-5 in my procedure. I’ll be back tomorrow.
Click to expand...
I have 12.89a/c at the starter l tried disconnecting the kill wire no luck on pull start or cranks.at least now l can hear the solenoid buzzing but no action.l will try your procedures and 🤞pin point problem.Thank you


#27

O

Ocean909

@navydad2022 You mentioned the solenoid is new...any chance you got a bad one? Is this a genuine OEM solenoid, or aftermarket from Amazon or Ebay.

@Rivets Your procedure for tracing a staring issue is very thorough, what I can't understand is why pull start isn't starting the engine.


#28

navydad2022

navydad2022

Ocean909 said:
@navydad2022 You mentioned the solenoid is new...any chance you got a bad one? Is this a genuine OEM solenoid, or aftermarket from Amazon or Ebay.

@Rivets Your procedure for tracing a staring issue is very thorough, what I can't understand is why pull start isn't starting the engine.
Click to expand...
You got me, I'm a newbie and you're the expert.any advice.and it's not a OEM part


#29

navydad2022

navydad2022

navydad2022 said:
You got me, I'm a newbie and you're the expert.any advice.and it's not a OEM part
Click to expand...
I don't know what causes pull start not to work.one question
navydad2022 said:
You got me, I'm a newbie and you're the expert.any advice.and it's not a OEM part
Click to expand...
When it does start it runs great, but after l shut it off it goes to buzzing and try it again no luck on both key or pull start ,


#30

O

Ocean909

navydad2022 said:
I don't know what causes pull start not to work.one question

When it does start it runs great, but after l shut it off it goes to buzzing and try it again no luck on both key or pull start ,
Click to expand...
First lets make sure your battery is good. Just because its reading 12+ volts doesn't mean its good. If you can get it load tested at a local auto parts store that would be a help. You could also try using a battery that you know is good, like your car battery or a Jump start box.

Second, as was mentioned by Rivets, check your ground wire. There should be a black wire that runs from the mower battery to bolt somewhere on the frame of the mower. The connections should be corrosion free and tight at both ends.

As you asked earlier about jumping the starter. Once you are sure the ground wire is making good connection, you can try jumping the starter. First remove the spark plug so you aren't fighting compression. There should be a thick red wire connected to a bolt on the starter. You can run a jumper cable wire directly from the red(+) terminal on the mower battery and touch the other end to the bolt on the starter that has the thick red wire connected. If starter spins the engine you know that it is working and we can look elsewhere for other problems.

Two things to remember...if the ground wire isn't making connection, this won't work. Second do this at your own risk. When you touch the pos(+) cable to the starter it will probably spark so use caution.

Get back to us and let us know what you did.


#31

navydad2022

navydad2022

navydad2022 said:
I don't know what causes pull start not to work.one question

When it does start it runs great, but after l shut it off it goes to buzzing and try it again no luck on both key or pull start ,
Click to expand...

Ocean909 said:
First lets make sure your battery is good. Just because its reading 12+ volts doesn't mean its good. If you can get it load tested at a local auto parts store that would be a help. You could also try using a battery that you know is good, like your car battery or a Jump start box.

Second, as was mentioned by Rivets, check your ground wire. There should be a black wire that runs from the mower battery to bolt somewhere on the frame of the mower. The connections should be corrosion free and tight at both ends.

As you asked earlier about jumping the starter. Once you are sure the ground wire is making good connection, you can try jumping the starter. First remove the spark plug so you aren't fighting compression. There should be a thick red wire connected to a bolt on the starter. You can run a jumper cable wire directly from the red(+) terminal on the mower battery and touch the other end to the bolt on the starter that has the thick red wire connected. If starter spins the engine you know that it is working and we can look elsewhere for other problems.

Two things to remember...if the ground wire isn't making connection, this won't work. Second do this at your own risk. When you touch the pos(+) cable to the starter it will probably spark so use caution.

Get back to us and let us know what you did.
Click to expand...
I will do that and thank you and I'll get back on what happened 🙏


#32

navydad2022

navydad2022

navydad2022 said:
I will do that and thank you and I'll get back on what happened 🙏
Click to expand...
Ocean909,Quick question does my solenoid suppose to click or buzzing sound?


#33

O

Ocean909

Solenoid will click when activated, but if you are jumping the starter you are bypassing the solenoid.


#34

navydad2022

navydad2022

Ocean909 said:
Solenoid will click when activated, but if you are jumping the starter you are bypassing the solenoid.
Click to expand...
I'm just turning the key to start and the solenoid is buzzing and not click


#35

O

Ocean909

That could mean a bad battery, bad ground or bad solenoid. Check out this video for testing



#36

navydad2022

navydad2022

Ocean909 said:
That could mean a bad battery, bad ground or bad solenoid. Check out this video for testing

Click to expand...
Ok👍


#37

F

Forest#2

Disconnect the wire from the starter and see if it clicks or buzzes.
A starter solenoid will SOMETIMES make a buzzing sound when the voltage to the solenoid goes low. the reason it makes the buz sound is the voltage is going up and down at a fast rate (fast pulses) and a voltmeter will read the voltage as low, but if a oscilloscope were using the voltage would look like spikes, not smooth DC voltage.
If it clicks with the starter wire loose get a voltmeter and do some testing. It indicates that the battery voltage to the solenoid coil terminal is going low when the starter loads the battery. Bad battery or poor connections.
If the solenoid buzzes or chatters with 12-14 volts applied to the coil itself and no starter load the solenoid is most likely bad due to rust or trash inside not allowing the solenoid plunger to make full travel.

Have you tried using jumper cables from another battery?????.


#38

navydad2022

navydad2022

Forest#2 said:
Disconnect the wire from the starter and see if it clicks or buzzes.
If it clicks with the starter wire loose get a voltmeter and do some testing. It indicates that the battery voltage is going low when the starter loads the battery

Have you tried using jumper cables from another battery?????.
Click to expand...
That's my next step, Thank you for your expertise


#39

F

Forest#2

navydad2022 said:
That's my next step, Thank you for your expertise
Click to expand...
See editing to my above post about testing your solenoid.


#40

M

MowerNick

Sounds like a safety swith or maybe the blades are engaged or possibly not in neutral.


#41

B

bouncer959

There is a fuse in the starter circuit, I’d check that first. Sometimes they are hard to find. If not bad, it could very well be yours new solenoid. I had am customer with a fairly new DR Chipper brush cutter that had exactly he same symptoms. It would blow fuse, but then stopped blowing starter circuit fuse. I narrowed it down to Solenoid was bad. Went to Oriellys, bought one , put on, it started 3 or 4 times then nothing. Let the troubleshooting begin again. Checked solenoid, it was bad. Took it back, replaced it with a full size one for an older Ford pickup, (one mounting hole didn’t match up), that’s been two years ago, says he hasn’t had any problems starting since!


#42

navydad2022

navydad2022

bouncer959 said:
There is a fuse in the starter circuit, I’d check that first. Sometimes they are hard to find. If not bad, it could very well be yours new solenoid. I had am customer with a fairly new DR Chipper brush cutter that had exactly he same symptoms. It would blow fuse, but then stopped blowing starter circuit fuse. I narrowed it down to Solenoid was bad. Went to Oriellys, bought one , put on, it started 3 or 4 times then nothing. Let the troubleshooting begin again. Checked solenoid, it was bad. Took it back, replaced it with a full size one for an older Ford pickup, (one mounting hole didn’t match up), that’s been two years ago, says he hasn’t had any problems starting since!
Click to expand...
Thank you 👍


#43

M

moparjoe

Ocean909 said:
So if you're saying the engine cranks, but won't fire with either starter or pull cord I'd check for spark next. If no spark, pull the kill wire on the ignition. If you then have spark, interlock or ground issue, if not bad ignition module
Click to expand...
The quickest way to find out if you have spark is take the sparkplug out, hold the plug wire and crank the engine over.


#44

navydad2022

navydad2022

moparjoe said:
The quickest way to find out if you have spark is take the sparkplug out, hold the plug wire and crank the engine over.
Click to expand...
I can't crank the engine over because the solenoid just buzzes to check for spark,l think l have to jump starter to check for spark.Thats if the starter is good.l was going to replace solenoid, starter and maybe coil to make sure.what do you think.


#45

navydad2022

navydad2022

navydad2022 said:
I can't crank the engine over because the solenoid just buzzes to check for spark,l think l have to jump starter to check for spark.Thats if the starter is good.l was going to replace solenoid, starter and maybe coil to make sure.what do you think.l have enough current to solenoid,but on previous conversation l need to check the battery,it's new but with this south Texas heat nothing survives.
Click to expand...


#46

F

Forest#2

Why don't you take the spark plug out a pull the rope and see if the spark plug sparks???????

Instead of just throwing parts at it possibly throwing good money into bad why not do some logical testing????

Post #43 will also give you a clue if it has any spark.

You think MAYBE you have a jump starter, You say?


#47

navydad2022

navydad2022

Finally got a chance to get to my snapper,turns out my negative cable to battery was bad.could not understand why but l replaced both positive and negative and replaced old starter for a new one and put a new solenoid for assurance.all good for now, going to replace my 3 safety switches also.snapper brought back to life slowly.


#48

S

slomo

Glad to hear she is running again sir.

The ground is the last thing that would ever get checked. Good job!!


#49

navydad2022

navydad2022

slomo said:
Glad to hear she is running again sir.

The ground is the last thing that would ever get checked. Good job!!
Click to expand...
You're welcome,l could not understand why it was doing that.with your expertise l got it running.i'm bring this snapper back to life slowly,Thank you


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