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Hello My Friends hope you are having a nice day,

Craftsman Limited Edition Honda
Honda GCV 160
Model # 247.376830


So I am working on a family members self-propelled (now a push mower) that wont self-propel. I am thinking it can be due to one of four things... #1 the belt.....#2 the shaft pulley....#3 the transmission pulley....#4 the transmission itself.

When I engage the self propelled handle the wheels do not spin but when I tilt the mower and lift front wheels off the ground they spin but somewhat slowly. Also, when I engage to self propel I notice that the belt seems to appear to be jumping around? When I took everything apart I did notice some polishing on both pulleys and I suspect this something you would expect to see and is normal? from my layman's viewpoint? I don't know this why I am here at the Lawn Mower Forum to find out from the experts.

What are your thoughts? And what shall I replace 1st? I included several pictures to help give ya a better understanding.

Thanks for your time, Its appreciated!

Here in Philly

Belt needs replaced.
something does not look right with this picture.

First of all, THANK YOU for posting pictures! That's really helpful!

Replace the belt, but before you put the new one on engage the self propel and try to spin the transmission pulley by hand (with the belt removed.) If it's very hard to spin, don't put the new belt on until you have checked back here for more help. It's possible that something in the drive system is binding up, causing the belt to slip on the pulleys and wear out.

A new belt can be obtained for $7.50 here: ebay.com/itm/OEM-Replacement-Belt-MTD-954-0637A-STE-265-262-/281961269026?hash=item41a6338722:gT0AAOSwLnlWos6f

Thanks for the replies guys.

BlazNT,

Are you suggesting the transmission pulley is worn or damaged?

Primerbulb120,

Thanks for looking up the belt on E-bay and providing the link, I appreciate that. Plus you found the cheapest price. You're the man! Do you suspect the belt is the problem by looking at the pictures or replacing it is the most logical and economical first step. I checked the pulley on the transmission with the belt off and the pulley spins freely with zero resistance, which is a good sign.

philadelphia1 said:

Thanks for the replies guys.

BlazNT,

Are you suggesting the transmission pulley is worn or damaged?

Primerbulb120,

Thanks for looking up the belt on E-bay and providing the link, I appreciate that. Plus you found the cheapest price. You're the man! Do you suspect the belt is the problem by looking at the pictures or replacing it is the most logical and economical first step. I checked the pulley on the transmission with the belt off and the pulley spins freely with zero resistance, which is a good sign.

Click to expand...

Take a look at BlazNT's picture, he circled the problem in red: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/attac...propelled-wont-self-propel-trans-pulley-2-jpg



It's good that the pulley spins freely by hand, but go back and try spinning it with the belt off and the self propel engaged. You should encounter resistance and the mower should move slowly. If the pulley is extremely hard to turn, you have another problem to fix before you replace the belt.

philadelphia1 said:

Thanks for the replies guys.

BlazNT,

Are you suggesting the transmission pulley is worn or damaged?

Primerbulb120,

Thanks for looking up the belt on E-bay and providing the link, I appreciate that. Plus you found the cheapest price. You're the man! Do you suspect the belt is the problem by looking at the pictures or replacing it is the most logical and economical first step. I checked the pulley on the transmission with the belt off and the pulley spins freely with zero resistance, which is a good sign.

Click to expand...

No not suggesting that the pulley is bad but the engager so to speak. Normally it would be round not look like it's broken off .

From the picture the belt is bad.

BlazNT

I apologize, I did not see the red circle on the last post in the picture, my bad. I cleaned the area in question with a toothbrush and took another picture after the clean up. Doesn't appear that anything is broken. I agree my initial picture it does appear that something might be going on there. Have a look at the new picture and let me know what you think. There is a metal piece there and it is being secured by some type of metal clip.

Primerbulb120,

Thanks for pointing out the red circle in the picture, I didn't catch that. So I engaged the self propel and turned the pulley clockwise, I did feel slight resistance and the mowers wheels slowly turned forward.

philadelphia1 said:

BlazNT

I apologize, I did not see the red circle on the last post in the picture, my bad. I cleaned the area in question with a toothbrush and took another picture after the clean up. Doesn't appear that anything is broken. I agree my initial picture it does appear that something might be going on there. Have a look at the new picture and let me know what you think. There is a metal piece there and it is being secured by some type of metal clip.

Primerbulb120,

Thanks for pointing out the red circle in the picture, I didn't catch that. So I engaged the self propel and turned the pulley clockwise, I did feel slight resistance and the mowers wheels slowly turned forward.

Click to expand...

The metal clip looks much better in the new pictures. :thumbsup:

Since the pulley turned okay with the self propel engaged, you should be good to go replacing the belt. Get a new one, put it on and see what you think!
Here's the link I gave you earlier for a new belt: ebay.com/itm/OEM-Replacement-Belt-MTD-954-0637A-STE-265-262-/281961269026?hash=item41a6338722:gT0AAOSwLnlWos6 f

primerbulb120 said:

The metal clip looks much better in the new pictures. :thumbsup:

Since the pulley turned okay with the self propel engaged, you should be good to go replacing the belt. Get a new one, put it on and see what you think!
Here's the link I gave you earlier for a new belt: ebay.com/itm/OEM-Replacement-Belt-MTD-954-0637A-STE-265-262-/281961269026?hash=item41a6338722:gT0AAOSwLnlWos6 f

Click to expand...

I agree new belt time.

Ok, great guys thanks for your help! I ordered the belt and should be here Monday or Tuesday. I'll slap everything back together and see how things go. I'll report back on progress. Thanks again!

So I got a new belt today and slapped it on and nothing......still doesn't move. When I tilt the front wheels off the ground they spin.... same as with the old belt, the second they make contact with the ground they stop? Double checked everything and nothing is apparent. Back to the drawing board. What shall I check next?

Remember when I said something did not look right? I would like for you to check the arm in question for travel. May need 2 people to test this. The self propel bar needs to be engaged then the arm needs to be checked if it will go any further towards the pulley. Do this with engine off. Repete do this with engine off.

BlazNT said:

Remember when I said something did not look right? I would like for you to check the arm in question for travel. May need 2 people to test this. The self propel bar needs to be engaged then the arm needs to be checked if it will go any further towards the pulley. Do this with engine off. Repete do this with engine off.

Click to expand...

And once you get done with that test, have another person start the mower. Then go around to the front and make sure that the belt is not slipping on the transmission pulley.

I checked the arm for travel while off and engaged, it is completely bottomed out...no travel whatsoever. I made a youtube video to give you a better perspective rather than a still pictures and words.

-https://youtu.be/KITqp1KET9c


I also made a video of the test you wanted me to do Primerbulb....it doesn't appear to me that the belt is slipping across the trans pulley? Not sure though?Also, have a look at the wheels when I lift the mower they slightly spin. The wheels are brand new.

-https://youtu.be/x2uRbkyd0YE

Thanks for the videos, they're a big help when trying to narrow down the problem.

The problem is clearly not with the transmission or belt, as I can see the axle spinning even when the wheels are not.


Remove the front wheels. You will see two small metal gears, one on each side of the mower, that are supposed to mesh with the wheels. With the mower off, engage the self propel and try to spin one of the gears. The gears should be impossible to spin with the self propel engaged. If you can spin them with the self propel engaged, I think I know what the problem is.

Report back with the results.

Hello again Primerbulb120,

With the self-propel engaged and the mower off I can get the pinion gear to move quarter turns but is very difficult to do so. I also notice that the level on the tranny twitches when it moves a quarter turn. Have a look at the video.

-https://youtu.be/7_pfXk5VuKY

Also took some video of the pinion gear itself.

-https://youtu.be/txt3ThiMoCk

My brother is a mechanic and he stopped by last night and we were trying to troubleshoot everything and he suspects that the dowel pins within the pinion gear are shot and need to be replaced? What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

philadelphia1 said:

Hello again Primerbulb120,

My brother is a mechanic and he stopped by last night and we were trying to troubleshoot everything and he suspects that the dowel pins within the pinion gear are shot and need to be replaced? What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I agree. I originally thought that somebody had removed the dowel pins altogether, but they're obviously still there. Since the axles are turning but the wheels are not, that either means that

1. The pinion gears are not turning
2. The front wheels are the wrong size and the pinion gears are not turning them.

If the front wheels are the right size, the pinion gears are not turning. This could be due to one of two things:

1. The pinion gears have been switched around. THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. They should be marked "R" and "L" for right side and left side. Make sure the old ones have been installed correctly before you replace them.
2. The pinion gears and/or dowel pins are worn out. I would suggest replacing the gears along with the pins, as they both wear equally.

Apply a liberal amount of grease to the dowel pins, the pinion gears and the ends of the transmission shaft (where the gears and pins attach.) Then re-install them, paying attention to the "R" and "L" markings. If the mower still won't propel itself, post back and I will give you links to the pinion gears and dowel pins.

Hello again,

So I double checked to make sure the pinion gears were properly oriented....while facing the mower from the front the gear labeled "R" is indeed on the right side and "L" is opposite. I greased the transmission shaft at either end, reapplied the dowel pins, pinion gears and put the wheels back on and still get the same results. They only spin when lifted off the ground. I made a video with the mower while started and the drive engaged to give you some perspective of the pinion gears moving with both wheels off.


https://youtu.be/jcnqOBsL3Vc


I'll also post some close-ups pictures of the pinion gears and pins. Some of the pinion pics are before and after I cleaned them up.




How do they look to you? Relatively worn? Anything that immediately catches your eye?

Now switch the pinion gears and see what happens.

Nope, nada, no dice brother....switched sides with the pinions and nothing. When I tilt the mower upward the wheels don't spin, just tremble.

Okay, it looks like your pinion gears and/or dowel pins are worn out. The cheapest place to buy them is Mowers4u.com. PLEASE NOTE that Mowers4u may have to backorder them, so if you want them ASAP get them on eBay. Here are the links:

LEFT SIDE pinion gear: mowers4u.com/spur-gear-p-4842.html
RIGHT SIDE pinion gear: mowers4u.com/spur-gear-p-4840.html
Dowel pin (works with both sides): mowers4u.com/dowel-pin-p-4843.html You will have to buy two of these if you want 1 for each side.

You could get just the pins and see if that fixes it, then get the gears too if it doesn't. Or just get the gears and pins for both sides and be done with it. Just keep in mind that you will have to pay $6 shipping and wait for the parts to arrive for each order.

----------------------------------------------
Or if you're interested in buying used parts, I might have gears and pins that would work. You can have them for the price of shipping.

Hey, thanks a lot for the wealth of information Primerbulb120 it's appreciated! :smile:

So, I think I'll start by just replacing the dowel pins and then moving forward from there if need be. According to MTD's website and the part # 915-0221, the dowel Pins are 3/16 in x 3/4 in. .... mtdparts.com/equipment/mtdparts/915-0221

I found that Home Depot carries the same pins at a fraction of the cost and no shipping related costs. They are stainless pins and you get 3-pieces for $0.98 can't beat that. Do you think these pins will suffice though? Or shall I go with the OEM pins?

homedepot.com/s/Dowel%2520Pin%252C%25203%252F16%2520x%25203%252F4%2522?NCNI-5

I have about an acre and a half at my property to mow and primarily use my craftsman 46 inch riding mower to knock a majority of it out. I use the push mower to clean-up the corners. Is it ok in the meantime to use the push mower manually? If so, shall I take the pinion gears off to make it easier to push?

That is very nice of you Primerbulb to offer me your parts for the price of shipping. I really appreciate that but I think its best for to replace everything new so I don't have to revisit this issue anytime soon.

What are the chances that this will not work either? Could it be something like the shaft pulley?

Lemme know your thoughts....

Thanks!

If you can get shaft pins for that price, go for it! It can't hurt to try. :smile: If the mower still won't propel, get new gears and pins from Mowers4u.

The problem has something to do with the gears and pins. In your videos, the axle was spinning just fine but the wheels were not. That tells me that the transmission shaft is not engaging the gears, which in turn has something to do with the gears and/or pins.

You can indeed use it as a push mower in the meantime, just take the gears off and you should be good to go. :thumbsup:

I got the pins yesterday and installed them today. The difference is that the left wheel tends to spin at sporadic intermittent intervals and the right side is completely dead (unless I tilt the mower up in the air then they both spin). I gettin' ready to set this sucker on a set of railroad tracks for a freight train....lol

I ordered new pinion gears and they are on back order.

So in the meantime I to took apart the transmission just to confirm the is no damage in there . It doesn't appear to have any apparent damage inside the case. The worm gear is metal and looks fine. The main drive gear is made of plastic and looks brand new to me, I don't see any noticeable damage. Also, I did not find any plastic shavings in the trans case or in the oil that would indicate some type of damage.

Have a look at this youtube video......https://youtu.be/GrIn6EmakqU

Does anyone see any damage that I might be missing or I'm not seeing?

Thanks!

It's either the pinion gears or the dowel pins. Make sure that your new pins are an exact replacement for the old ones. I hope that the new gears will fix it! :smile:

Got the gears and pins today from MTD, installed them and nothing has changed... the wheels still sputter and half want to move. What does that leave me with now? A new transmission? Any other idea's anyone can provide?

Remove one of the wheel dust covers. Put the mower together and run it. With the dust cover removed, you should be able to see the pinion gear meshing with the wheel. Make sure the gears are meshing and not slipping. If they aren't meshing properly, you got the wrong wheels.

While you have the dust cover removed, take a video of the mower running without it. :thumbsup:

Hiya Primerbulb120,

I'm sure the wheels are Ok, they fit like a glove....they are the same exact wheels as the old ones I replaced. I took a side by side picture of the old and new. There is nothing indicative and slipping as the plastic is not chewed and/or indication of stripping. Have a look at the pic. I also made a video showing the gears with the dust covers off....have a look and tell me what your think?

https://youtu.be/lrhIMYlV_qM

You didn't replace the pinion gears/pins for nothing. In this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2uRbkyd0YE&feature=youtu.be] the axle shaft was spinning but the wheels were not. Which definitely points to a problem with the gears/pins.

At this point I'm sure you have a problem with the trans itself. If you can't fix it, I think I've got a good used one that will fit. Let me do some checking and I'll report back.

I can't match up the part numbers, but I still think my transmission would fit your mower. (My mower is very similar to yours, it's just red and has a Briggs and Stratton engine. It's a Troy-Bilt Tuff Cut 200 in case you want to look it up.) The part # for your trans is 918-04376A, the part # for mine is 753-05465.

Give me these dimensions:

1. Length of the axle shaft
2. Diameter of the axle shaft
3. Diameter of the pulley

Hey there Primerbulb120 hope you are enjoying your weekend. Hot one today here in Pennsylvania but not as hot as FLORIDA...lol (my brother lives in Homestead)

I just don't understand how the transmission is bad. When I opened it up there was nothing apparent that something was broken or worn. The metal worm gear looks brand new and the plastic drive gear looks just as good. I was expecting to find plastic shavings from damage or normal wear and tear and did not find anything in the bottom of the tranny case. No shavings in the oil..... so I'm like wtf? Any chance it could be the drive shaft pulley? I cut the grass today and that pig is dead weigh to push around...lol

Dimensions:

1. Length of the axle shaft = approx. 20 inches
2. Diameter of the axle shaft =approx. 1/2 inch
3. Diameter of the pulley = approx. 2 1/2 inches