Export thread

Replace GCV160 with Predator Engine

#1

T

Twister

I have a Honda mower, model number HRR2167VKA with the GCV160 engine. I sat for a couple years, the my friend gave it to me. I got it running but it would revv through the roof. Tried messing with the governor, got it to the point where it would run ok, but would stumble here and there and surge a bit occasionally. I noticed that it smoked a decent amount from the exhaust and the breather tube. The deck is fine and the self propel still works. I want to replace the engine with a new one, and i found the Harbor Freight one, the specs point to it being able to be used a replacement. I am looking for any input from anyone who has done this. I need the self propel to still function as i have a couple steep hills that i need the self propel for.

I have found an older thread on here about someone doing this swap, but he just says its works and then nothing more on the thread.

TIA


#2

Z

zeke1975

Twister said:
I have a Honda mower, model number HRR2167VKA with the GCV160 engine. I sat for a couple years, the my friend gave it to me. I got it running but it would revv through the roof. Tried messing with the governor, got it to the point where it would run ok, but would stumble here and there and surge a bit occasionally. I noticed that it smoked a decent amount from the exhaust and the breather tube. The deck is fine and the self propel still works. I want to replace the engine with a new one, and i found the Harbor Freight one, the specs point to it being able to be used a replacement. I am looking for any input from anyone who has done this. I need the self propel to still function as i have a couple steep hills that i need the self propel for.

I have found an older thread on here about someone doing this swap, but he just says its works and then nothing more on the thread.

TIA
Click to expand...

Hello,

I just did a similar swap. I have a troy-bilt (2006) with GCV160 on it. I hit something that wrecked my blade, front mulching baffle, shattered the blade adapter and bent the crankshaft on the GCV160. Other than that the mower is still in good shape :wink: I picked up the Predator 173cc to replace the GCV160 with. My GCV160 had a 1" shaft, the Predator's is 7/8", so I needed a new blade adapter (no big deal mine had shattered anyhow), Lowe's stocks them and it was around $7. My GCV160 did not have a throttle control, the predator requires one, so I picked one of those up at Lowe's for about $7 as well. It mounted up using the same holes in the deck that the GCV160 did, however, I couldn't use the existing bolts from the GCV160. The Predator comes with only two mounting bolts, I used the shorted of the two (in the only threaded mounting hole on the predator), and for the other two mounting holes, I had to purchase 2 5/16 bolts, locknuts and lock washers, as the holes in the Predator (other than the one I used the provided bolt on) aren't threaded, you could also tap them if you preferred. After bolting the engine to the deck, I just had to attach the brake from the handle bar to the engine, and hook up the throttle control to a existing hole on my handle bar and to the engine. Added oil/gas and it fired right up and runs well. The only thing I don't like is it doesn't come with a fuel shutoff, I'll probably add one.


#3

Clayslayer

Clayslayer

Yes you can. I acquired a Honda HRX217 plastic deck mower that had a busted GCV160. At first I was going to just fix the GCV but the previous owner had taken a lot of it apart, tried to fix it himself, and had lost or mangled a great deal. I just went and bought a Predator 173 and junked the Honda. The Honda had a 25mm shaft, the Predator is 7/8. I bought a little sleeve to put over the crank of the Predator and still had to grind it quite a bit before the original Honda blade adapter would fit. As previously mentioned there are two holes in the bottom of the Predator that will line right up and a third is threaded one instead of four simple holes. I'm assuming that the engine was designed this way to cause frustration and require return trips to the hardware store for odds and ends. The underside of the HRX deck is a bit.... complicated. Everything in the self propulsion mechanism is held together by tension. Once you take the belt off, no tension, everything falls apart, mess. You'll likely need to watch a YouTube video or two to see how it all goes together. Nothing really difficult, just tedious. The Predator requires a throttle cable. I was lucky that the HRX217 had a manual throttle and engine brake. Once everything was hooked up the engine fired right up. The bit of frustration in the install was well worth it. The Predator 173 has been a very good engine. To the point that I can't really tell a performance difference between it and the Honda GCV190 on my other HRX217. Yes I now have two near identical HRX217 mowers...


#4

C

Chris Parman

Hi Clayslayer, here is my Honda Resto-Mod.

I found a economical solution for a replacement engine for a Honda HRR216 I bought for $40. This Honda HRR216 (GCV160 engine had a bent blade shaft (wasn’t worth repairing). I researched online and the cheapest price was $285 plus shipping. Then I found the Predator 173cc vertical engine and began to read reviews, youtube videos, etc, for weeks before I finally bought the Predator 173cc vertical engine. I had to tap two 3/8 inch mount holes in the engine to 3/8-24 thread. I used anti-size compound on the blade shaft to eliminate the two metals bonding. Added a fuel shut off valve (which I used from the Honda GCV160 engine). Followed proper brake-in procedures. I recommend 30W oil and Trufuel ethanol free fuel. I believe this engine will last atleast ten years of domestic use.

Predator 173cc vertical engine
TB Woods AK2578 Pully
Arnold Keyed Blade Adapter kit (748-0376C)
Arnold Universal Throttle Control (SL-305)
Mulching 21-inch blade
Stainless bolts and stainless washers

I like your idea of using a 7/8" to 1" sleeve, because I would of rather used the stock pulley and the stock blade holder so I could utilize the Honda stock two blade system. Clayslayer, which engine performs better, the Predator 173cc or the Honda GCV190?

20191221_142400.jpg20191221_142506.jpg20191221_142143.jpg20191221_141913.jpg


#5

T

tadawson

Myself, I'd fix the Honda, since it sounds likemit doesn't need much. No way would I go near anything from Horrible Fraud . . . those will be beer cans before the Honda is fully broken in!


#6

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

if i remember right, a crank for the GCV160 is in the neighbor hood of $50.00 USD.


#7

C

Chris Parman

I would luv to revive my GCV160, but I'm having a hell of a time getting the flywheel off. I found a crank shaft for $26.00 and a thrust washer for .26 cents. I have tried a two prong puller and almost destroyed the top of the crank shaft threads. Damn flywheel won't come off. If anyone has any tips send them my way, thanks.


#8

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

A 3 prong puller is A lot better,
youtube has a plethora of videos for the flywheel removal on that engine.


#9

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Also if you have an Impact wrench that could help to, with shocks from the impacting might help it break loose off the taper.


#10

tom3

tom3

Make sure you have the nut on the top of the crank if the threads go clear up. Have had some luck with heating the center of the flywheel while using a puller. And sometimes you can hold the motor up by the flywheel and whack the top of the crank with a hammer to break it loose. The impact seems to help.


#11

C

Chris Parman

I finally managed to get the flywheel off. I split the case and the internals look good and clean. I just need to find that youtube video of the vocational school teacher (in parts) showing how remove the crank shaft without removing the piston. Also, buy parts (Crank shaft, thrush washer) and anything else.

20200111_180104.jpg 20200111_180016.jpg


#12

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Your gasket surface is a lot better than one I took apart, it looked like they let a 2 year old loose with a tube of RTV. Is was dried on the case walls inside and out, just really sloppy.
be sure to get both surfaces shiny clean and reapply a sealant, Permatex ultra black is good.


#13

C

Chris Parman

What's weird is the governor rod arm came out of the plastic gear in the oil sump, not entirely sure how to put it back in the correct place with respect to the plastic gear. There is nothing broken in the sump, nor any foreign debris in the bottom of the oil sump. Both the top half and the oil sump is very clean.


#14

C

Chris Parman

I'm about 80% complete with my first GCV160 rebuild (replacing a bent crank shaft), just waiting on on two parts (flywheel bolt and PTO drive pulley). Then I will be able to test my skills. I found torque specs for the GCV160 and utilize proper nut & bolt specs throughout the rebuild. Hopefully the engine will start on the first or second pull.

20200119_144444.jpg 20200119_144621.jpg


#15

M

mikebarber

The Honda GCV series in my opinion is hardly worth investing in the price of a new spark plug I have one on one of my log splitters and it threw a timing belt that is wet and runs in the crankcase oil the camshaft is "plastic" and only has 1 lobe on it to run both the intake and exhaust valve through stamped rocker arms valve cover gasket comes in a tube as does the gasket for the split crankcase halves Best of luck with your repair I am waiting for mine to fail again and I will find an older Honda to repair and replace with before I ever put another nickel in my GCV Best of luck to ya just thought I would pass along the experience with mine before too much money gets invested in to a motor designed for about 100-150 hrs of use


#16

tom3

tom3

I was looking this engine over and noticed the OHC design, unusual in a utility type motor. Wondered if it's 'better' or just somehow just cheaper. Now I know. Strange to see a Honda product go to the dark side. But then they're using belt drives in their SUVs these days.


#17

C

Chris Parman

The Predator 173cc vertical engine is a Honda Clone. I do not know the name of the manufacture, I will only assume that the Predator 173cc vertical engine is not on par with Honda GXV series engines in terms of quality.


#18

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

The Harbor Freight Predator engines are made by Lifan in China. As far as I can tell the are an exact copy of Honda GX engines. The parts will interchange on Honda engines.


#19

C

Chris Parman

Hammermechanic man, interesting. Thank you for the insight.


#20

tom3

tom3

We have a couple of their horiz. Predator engines, seem well built, run fine so far. Amazing for $100 complete ready to run.


#21

H

HurstGN

I replaced a Tecumseh engine on an ancient Ariens mower with the Predator clone when the Tecumseh gave up the ghost after about 25 years. On sale, and with a coupon, I got the Predator for about $85. Used it for over 5 years without issue. The drive system eventually went on the Ariens and I dumped it for a Honda. I kept the Predator engine as it was still running perfectly at the time.


#22

J

JBtoro

Clayslayer said:
Yes you can. I acquired a Honda HRX217 plastic deck mower that had a busted GCV160. At first I was going to just fix the GCV but the previous owner had taken a lot of it apart, tried to fix it himself, and had lost or mangled a great deal. I just went and bought a Predator 173 and junked the Honda. The Honda had a 25mm shaft, the Predator is 7/8. I bought a little sleeve to put over the crank of the Predator and still had to grind it quite a bit before the original Honda blade adapter would fit. As previously mentioned there are two holes in the bottom of the Predator that will line right up and a third is threaded one instead of four simple holes. I'm assuming that the engine was designed this way to cause frustration and require return trips to the hardware store for odds and ends. The underside of the HRX deck is a bit.... complicated. Everything in the self propulsion mechanism is held together by tension. Once you take the belt off, no tension, everything falls apart, mess. You'll likely need to watch a YouTube video or two to see how it all goes together. Nothing really difficult, just tedious. The Predator requires a throttle cable. I was lucky that the HRX217 had a manual throttle and engine brake. Once everything was hooked up the engine fired right up. The bit of frustration in the install was well worth it. The Predator 173 has been a very good engine. To the point that I can't really tell a performance difference between it and the Honda GCV190 on my other HRX217. Yes I now have two near identical HRX217 mowers...
Click to expand...
Are you sure that the HRX217 had the GCV160? They ship with the larger GCV190 so someone could have made a swap. The reason I ask is because I also have an HRX217 deck, etc. in decent shape and a good 160 in storage.


Footer Links 1

Top